C-SPAN Caller: DEAN Supporters Will NOT Follow Other Candidates

[UTUSN]

She said that the people she sees at DEAN meet-ups are diverse in their political backgrounds, some Libertarians and other non-Dem-Party orientations, that if somebody else is nominated these will NOT transfer to any other Dem candidate. Since getting into online discussions starting with Campaign 2000 then 2002, a recurring topic of dissention has been my favoring the Any-Dem side, how it is bad form, not to mention LOSING form, to take-the-marbles-home-if-my-candidate-isn't-nominated. There has been plenty of ABB around DU, although I confess I haven't been following the Primaries forum. This is just to vent over that caller's assertion.

[wryter2000]

1. This Dean supporter will

I'll support any Dem but Lieberman. She's full of it.

[AWD]

2. C-SPAN caller LYING

Sounds like another candidate's supporter trying to do more work for Rove/Bush.

[scintlgst]

3. I think a lot of them may be Scientologists

[w13rd0]

6. Oh no...

...they are more likely Greys. Bzzzt! Hey, Bush has the Moonies, but we've got the Hubbardinians! Let the cosmic battle of the faux-messiah's commence!

[UTUSN]

19. LOL, You Two n/t

[LynneSin]

well that doesn't sound like meetup in Wilmington

Where we are all ABB, but we all work hard to get Dean on the ballot

[Scott Lee]

4. Well goodness, I'm glad this one person speaks for all, ne?

What a marvelous burden has been lifted from our shoulders. Aaaaahhhhhhh.

Please.

[movonne]

5. This is a stupid thing to do...

[Red_Viking]

7. Rove is getting good...

at disguising his voice! Way to go.

:)

This Dean supporter will vote for the proverbial ham sandwich before she votes for *. No way, no how, not even if Dean does not get the nomination, would I back the fascists. Whoever that caller was, she's full of it.

:dem:

RV

[HFishbine]

8. Is this any different

According to a current DU poll, 38% of Clark supporters would vote for him as an independent if he didn't win the nomination. Is this any different?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=28008&mesg_id=28008

[maddezmom]

12. not sure that poll relflects Clark supporters

maybe a couple other candidates supporters voted, just a thought. :)

[HFishbine]

16. Of course it doesn't

Just as I suspect most Clark supporters on DU are not representative of Clark supporters at large. Just as the CSpan caller cannot be thought of as representative of Dean supporters (if she is even one to begin with).

[Scott Lee]

22. Any more than a single caller represents all DEAN supporters?

[Lisa0825]

9. she's either lying, or an idiot, or both

EVERYONE I have met through Dean events is completely ABB.

[Hoppin_Mad]

10. This Dean supporter will vote for the Democratic nominee

[Padraig18]

11. Dupe:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=28406&mesg_id=28406

[maha]

13. My answer to C-SPAN caller and Wm Safire

http://www.mahablog.com/2003.12.21_arch.html#1072463062095

In one of his weirder recent columns, William Safire wrote that the Democratic Party is divided into two major factions: The Old Guard and the Howard Dean-Internet Group. Safire speculates that if Dean is the nominee the Old Guard will support him, but if Dean is not the nominee the Dean-Internet crowd will bolt the party.

But what if Dean loses momentum in Iowa, does "less than expected" in New Hampshire, gets clobbered in Carolina or blows his cool at media tormentors once too often? What if the Old Democrat center, revivified as a stop-Dean movement and helped by the pendulum press, actually stops Dean? Could happen. Then what?

He is not the sort who gives up easily. Nor is he likely to ask Clark or whomever in a smoke-free room for the No. 2 slot. Dean has grass-roots troops, a unique fund-raising organization, the name recognition and the fire-in-the-belly, messianic urge to go all the way on his own ticket.

Politronic chatter picked up by pundits monitoring lefty blogsites and al-Gora intercepts flashes the warning: If stopped, Dean may well bolt.

That split of opposition would be a bonanza for Bush. In a two-man race, the odds are that he would beat Dean comfortably, but in a three-party race, Bush would surely waltz in with the greatest of ease. (William Safire, "Don't Stop Dean," The New York Times, December 24, 2003)

To be sure, there's a lot of wishful thinking behind those words. I haven't seen any "lefty" bloggers predicting a Dean defection. But in recent days I've noted several "divide the Dems" scenarios, and some of them come from Dems.

Among us "lefty" bloggers it's pretty much a given that the eventual presidential nominee will be either Dean or Wesley Clark. (The "pundits" have written off Clark's campaign based on polls. Some of these same polls show Joe Lieberman in second place after Dean. Enough said.) Dean supporters -- people whose opinions I respect -- are worrying that if Dean gets the nomination Clarkies will bolt the party. Clark supporters -- people whose opinions I respect -- worry that if Clark gets the nomination the Deaniacs will bolt the party.

But if you look at most of the policy proposals being floated by Dean and Clark (and most of the rest of the field, for that matter) you'd be pressed to find any vast, gaping difference. Ultimately the same force is driving people toward both Clark and Dean -- a determination to get George W. Bush out of the White House.

I think the identity of the eventual nominee will be known by March 1, after the February primaries, and even though supporters of the also-rans will be bitterly disappointed, most of them will get over it and reconcile (if not rally) to the nominee by the time flowers bloom in the spring, tra-la. ...

(And if by the "Old Guard" Safire refers to the Democratic Party power elite centered in Washington -- in truth the division is not between the Old Guard and Deaniacs; it's between the Old Guard and a large majority of rank-and-file Democrats outside the Beltway.)

[Cheswick2.0]

14. one woman makes a remark on C-span and suddenly it is true?

I don't think so.

[JNelson6563]

15. dupe

we already have an active thread on this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=28406&mesg_id=28406

[KaraokeKarlton]

17. The caller was both right and wrong, let me explain

There are a lot of Dean supporters who are NOT Democrats. I'm one of them. I'm a registered Independent (swing voter). We don't vote according to party. We vote on the individual and what they offer that will affect us personally. Dean has attracted a lot of people like me. Some of us will vote for ABB, some will vote for Almost ABB and some will only vote if Dean is the nominee or could even *gasp* vote for Bush. Democrats who support Dean are going to vote for whoever the Democratic nominee is, period. Independents, third party and moderate Republicans may not and you can't expect them to. Some of them will vote against Bush, but a lot of them aren't going to just fall in line behind the Democratic party because they AREN'T Democrats to begin with. There's also a slew of people Dean has gotten involved and interested who never had any interest before his campaign. You can't expect those votes either for anyone other than Dean because if it weren't for Dean those are votes that wouldn't have even been cast at all.

Here's the bottom line...if you want swing voters and non-Democrats to vote Democratic, then give us a candidate we like and can get behind whole heartedly. Howard Dean is that kind of candidate. And just the fact that he neutralizes the whole gun argument guarantees him a ton of votes from hunters who like everything else about the Democratic party except for gun control.

The one thing that really astounds me about the whole "anti-Dean" faction of the Democratic Party is that they claim to want to get swing voters behind them, and then when they find the best candidate to do that they attack him and want to nominate someone we're less likely to vote for. :shrug:

[jmaier]

18. I only sort of understand this position

speaking as a former independent, I can't recall any election where I didn't vote because neither of my first choices was in the GE race. I'd find it hard to argue how anyone now supporting Dean would ultimately prefer Bush if Dean isn't the nominee?

What issue(s) are so near and dear to their heart that Bush looks inferior to Dean but superior to Kerry, Clark, Lieberman, Gephardt, or Edwards? Please note that I left Kucinich off specifically because I can see how a more conservative person might be driven away from Kucinich.

[KaraokeKarlton]

27. I think you're mixing different types of Dean supporters up

and you really shouldn't. Independents come in different types. I'm a middle of the road Independent. I support abortion being legal despite my dislike for it being done. I support the 2nd Amendment. I want a balanced budget. I want good schools. I want good jobs. I want access to good health care. I want my kids to have it better than I did. I want honest politicians who are more in touch with what's important to me than what's important to corporations, big business and the richest 2% of the country. I want someone who actually makes sense when they talk, who speaks to me and my concerns. I want someone who is looking at the same issues that I see as being most important to MY life. I want a problem solver and a doer, not an empty suit who has mastered giving lip service but accomplishing nothing.

Now, there are some Independents who lean further to the left, and some who lean further to the right. Dean has just enough varied positions to appeal to both of those political factions. This is why he's got some Greens behind him as well as some Republicans.

Let's talk about the Dean supporters who have never voted before. These are many, many people. Dean is the reason they got involved. He's made them not only interested in politics, but giving of their time and money to get him elected. They watch the news and hear other Democrats attacking their political hero...their ONLY reason for paying attention and wanting to vote. The Democratic Party is alienating these people by attacking Dean. If Dean isn't the nominee, I don't see this particular group of Dean supporters getting behind a different candidate. The rest of the party is pushing them away. I think that's a huge mistake. If Dean is the nominee, I see these new voters becoming solid Democrats because of Dean. If Dean isn't the nominee, I think most of these new voters will go back to political inertia. Again, the Democrats behind Dean are going to vote ABB. Independents who normally vote will definitely vote, but I suspect it will be split between Bush, the Dem nominee and third parties, depending on whether they are left, middle or a little right leaning. It's the new voters who I think won't be transferrable. They are a significant number, too...and frankly, they don't owe any party anything and should not be expected to be loyal to Democrats just because you, or the Party, wants them to be. Run Dean, and you can count on their vote. Run someone else, and you can't count on their vote...it's really that simple, regardless of who does or doesn't like it. :shrug:

[artr2]

20. This Dean supporter will not abandon the party

I will work for, contribute time & money for our candidate, no matter who he (or she) is.

[UTUSN]

21. Thanks, All, for the All Around Civility

I have stayed in the regular GD and been wary about dipping in here. Will probably stay mostly in GD, but I missed some of the handles.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[IndianaGreen]

23. An independent voter that is attracted to the Democratic Party solely...

An independent voter that is attracted to the Democratic Party solely because they are behind the candidacy of someone like Dean, or more likely, a Kucinich, cannot be expected to stay with the Democratic Party if his candidate does not win the nomination.

It is unrealistic to expect new voters that never trusted the 2-party system for a variety of reasons, to abide to some misguided loyalty oath--the very same thing that probably kept them from supporting the Democratic Party in the first place.

[Tom Rinaldo]

24. It will be the job of all of us activists to unite the party against Bush

This is not a unique phenomena to the Dean camp. I am sure Dean will speak out in favor of party unity once this thing is decided. Now is not the time to write off anyone's supporters from the Stop Bush larger movement. Passions are running high.

[KittyWampus]

25. You Know, Some Dean Supporters Might Just Be 3rd Party Voters

so they might NOT be willing to just go Democratic if Dean drops out.

I'm not willing to condemn a Dean supporter just because they don't automatically say they'll support the Democratic Nominee if it isn't Dean.

The Democrats should NOT take anyone's vote for granted EVER.

[Moderator]

28. Dupe

Please continue the discussion here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=28406


DU Moderator