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IWR- Was opposing Bush enough? Was that Congress's only responsibility?

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:15 PM
Original message
IWR- Was opposing Bush enough? Was that Congress's only responsibility?

My view and my aim is that Bush should be held completely responsible for pushing us into war. From his phony 1441 presentation to his phony briefings which exaggerated the threat from Iraq, to the phony information that his administration hawked in secret briefings with Congress. I don't see the value in allowing Bush to hide behind a congressional resolution that sought to stifle his manufactured mandate to invade and occupy Iraq.

Congress is the lever. The hold the purse strings. But the president has the ultimate responsibility under the Constitution for committing forces. If Bush can disregard Congress's mandate with impunity then what good is there in holding Congress accountable when the president ignores the law? Did the president even read the resolution?

Nothing in there says drop the U.N. and invade. It says the opposite. And he stepped around them.

The resolution was designed to get Saddam to let inspectors back in by backing the 1441 U.N. resolution with the threat of force. Inspectors were let back in and pulled when Bush rushed forward. If Bush had given the inspectors more time perhaps they would have taken the question of WMDs off of the table.

That was the effect of the resolution. Allowing the inspectors to reenter Iraq and proceed with verification. We could guess, but they would verify. Bush pushed ahead of Congress in his invasion. He cut the inspectors off with his rush to invade. No Democrat advocated that, save Joe Lieberman and Zell Miller.

Why did Congress trust the president? What guarantee do we have that any elected official will follow the Law?

When Congress passes a resolution that mandates seeking swift action by the U.N. security council before proceeding, and proscribes working with the international community until it is determined that 'reliance on diplomatic of peaceful means alone" would not force Saddam's hand, that is the law. The president took an oath promising to follow the law.

Thus, as the resolution states:

(1) reliance by the United States on further diplomatic or other peaceful means alone either (A) will not adequately protect the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq or (B) is not likely to lead to enforcement of all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq; and

(2) obtain prompt and decisive action by the Security Council to ensure that Iraq abandons its strategy of delay, evasion and noncompliance and promptly and strictly complies with all relevant Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.



Didn't the president unlawfully disregard these provisions? Don't these provisions represent the restraint that I maintain is implied in the resolution. Isn't this actually a case of the president pushing past Congress, the American people, and the international community in his race to war?

These are the foremost provisions of the resolution that I believe involves the president and his word.

1. Defend the national security of the United States against the continuing threat posed by Iraq.

According to who? According to what evidence presented. Doesn't the administration have an obligation to present the threat in a accurate and truthful manner? Did they? Weren't they obligated to under this resolution?

Why aren't the nay voters calling for a new resolution like Dennis Kucinich in his call to repeal the authorization. Where is that push in Congress now from all of the dissenters?

I'll tell you where. They had a chance to modify the war in two separate funding bills. I know that my candidate voted against that $87 billion. That's as close to post-war opposition as any of the others in the Senate have managed. This is in the wake of evidence of no WMD's; hind views; and evidence mounting of the president inflating the threat.

2. Enforce all relevant United Nations Security Council resolutions regarding Iraq.

U.N. Res.1441 was negotiated with bogus evidence presented by Powell. But the public still doesn't know the nature or the amount of evidence presented. Some were convinced some weren't. You can see in John Kerry's floor statement that he didn't abide risking the possibility that Iraq might restart a nuclear program, remote-controlled bombers, whatever. That was on the basis of bogus info.

But remember, there were no inspectors inside Iraq to verify anything. One of John Kerry's intentions in the resolution was to pressure Iraq with the U.N. resolution backed up by the threat of force. It worked until Bush pushed ahead and drove them out again. Those who would hold the president accountable are indebted to Hans Blix for his presence there and his candor.

Still some will insist on holding those who sought to reign him in responsible for the sins of Bush. It makes no sense, politically or on the facts at hand, to claim that John Kerry advocated or acquiesced to unilateral, preemptive invasion and occupation in their support for the IWR.

The authority to commit forces is not inherent in the IWR. That authority is contained in the War Powers Act which decades of presidents have used to commit forces for 60 days without congressional approval. I believe that Congress would be loath to remove forces after they were committed.

The only input that Congress had to the president's rush to war was a 'no' vote, which I don't believe would have restrained the president, and to attempt to place restrictions on the president's behavior through a resolution.

Principled opposition to Bush's war is to be respected and encouraged. But I reject the argument that those same principles were betrayed in just voting for the IWR.

Some Democrats saw the resolution as a way to restrain Bush and send him back to the U.N. My candidate was desperate to stifle Bush's argument for immediate invasion and sought to mandate a return to the international table by limiting Bush's authority in the resolution.

Whether or not the resolution had passed, Bush was intent on invading and occupying Iraq. He had gone around for days proclaiming that 1441 gave him the authority to do whatever he wanted.

If the resolution had failed, the president I think, would have committed forces anyway as decades of presidents had also put troops in the field for 60 days without congressional approval. In that event, I believe, the Congress would be loath to retreat and remove forces. Then, by law a resolution would have been drawn up, likely resembling the one we have now; urging Bush back to the U.N. and calling for internationalization of the conflict.

That is how determined presidents get us into war. Check and checkmate. It's democracy-lite. It stinks, but it is difficult, if not impossible, to restrain a president from committing forces because of the loopholed prerogative inherent in the War Powers Act, which is referenced in the IWR. I believe that the only way to effectively direct him is through some sort of resolution passed by Congress.

It is possible that a unified front of opposition to the resolution could have turned the public against the plan to invade. But I don't think that was at all possible with the republican majority in the Senate, and in view of Bush's plan to invade with or without congressional approval.

Sen. Kerry and other Democrats didn't feel that the president would be restrained with a 'no' vote. They sought to influence his behavior through the resolution.

Bush's position before, during and after invasion was that 1441 gave him authority to do any thing he wanted to in that region. He wanted cover, but the IWR doesn't give him cover for his unilateral, preemptive invasion. Nowhere in the bill does it mandate what he did.

Bush disregarded the restraint implied in the resolution and pushed past Congress, the American people, and the world community in his predisposed zeal to invade and occupy Iraq.


I am defending John Kerry in this because he gave an informed (misinformed) rational for his vote. Maybe I wouldn't have made that vote. I don't know what lies the administration put before the U.N. and Congress. I do know that John Kerry opposed what the president ultimately did, before and after the vote. He didn't hide behind clipped rhetoric. He was effusive in his complaints. He was clear in his opposition to unilateral invasion and occupation.

I was also opposed to the president's actions; before the vote and at the U.N with Powell's phony presentation (I couldn't believe they bought that load.) I anguished over the vote which threatened to wipe out the Senate Democrats because Bush had taken them to the edge of the mid-term elections.

I listened to the debate. I thought Biden-Lugar and Byrd's outright rejection of Bush's open-ended first draft was superior to the final vote. But I listened to John Kerry's admonitions in his floor speech. He said that he would personally hold the president accountable if he exceeded the restraint implied in the bill.


From John Kerry's Floor Speech Before The Vote:

"I am voting to give this authority to the President for one reason and one reason only: to disarm Iraq of weapons of mass destruction if we cannot accomplish that objective through new tough weapons inspections. In giving the President this authority, I expect him to fulfill the commitments he has made to the American people in recent days - to work with the United Nations Security Council to adopt a new resolution setting out "tough, immediate" inspections requirements and to "act with our allies at our side" if we have to disarm Saddam Hussein by force.

If he fails to do so, I will be the first to speak out."
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html


His presidential bid is a natural extension of his promise. He has been consistent in his aim to remove Saddam with international support. He has deeper knowledge than I as to the true nature of the threat posed. Sen. Kerry is no stranger to the debate over our support of Saddam's regime and the corrupting violence proliferated by Hussein. He voted for the Iraq Liberation Act supported by Clinton which called for regime change. He has been consistent in his concern for the security of the region and for the potential transfer of bio or chem weapons by an unchecked Iraq. His IWR vote was an extension of that concern.

Congress can act, but the president holds ultimate responsibility to follow the mandate of the people as expressed by their representatives. Congress didn't give Bush permission for his preconceived invasion. They acted in accordance with their obligations under the Constitution and the War Powers Act and did not give a blank check.

Congress doesn't seem to have the will to collectively stop this war, even in the face of the evidence that Bush inflated the threat. Two massive funding bills have ratified our mostly unilateral occupation there. I must note that my candidate voted against the $87 billion.

I think this fish rots at the head. Bush must go. John Kerry is consistent in seeking the presidency to ensure that the will of Congress, the American people, and the concerns of the international community are not disregarded in the future.


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aquart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
1. Then why did I go into shock
When I found out MY senators had voted Aye on this bill?

How come, I, outside the beltway, knew they had just given George permission for war?

How come I knew it and they didn't?

Do I want a leader too dumb to see the obvious? That a decision to go to war had been made and he was lying about everything else?

They voted Yes because they didn't think they could sell the truth. Or they didn't know the truth. Whichever.

Kerry went with the herd. How is that a recommendation for leadership?
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. From a speech he gave at Georgetown on January 23rd on foreign policy.
Edited on Sun Feb-08-04 01:29 PM by bigtree
Here's an excerpt:

“In U.N. Security Council Resolution 1441, the United Nations has now affirmed that Saddam Hussein must disarm or face the most serious consequences. Let me make it clear that the burden is resoundingly on Saddam Hussein to live up to the ceasefire agreement he signed and make clear to the world how he disposed of weapons he previously admitted to possessing. But the burden is also clearly on the Bush Administration to do the hard work of building a broad coalition at the U.N. and the necessary work of educating America about the rationale for war. As I have said frequently and repeat here today, the United States should never go to war because it wants to, the United States should go to war because we have to. And we don't have to until we have exhausted the remedies available, built legitimacy and earned the consent of the American people, absent, of course, an imminent threat requiring urgent action.

The Administration must pass this test. I believe they must take the time to do the hard work of diplomacy. They must do a better job of making their case to the American people and to the world.

I have no doubt of the outcome of war itself should it be necessary. We will win. But what matters is not just what we win but what we lose. We need to make certain that we have not unnecessarily twisted so many arms, created so many reluctant partners, abused the trust of Congress, or strained so many relations, that the longer term and more immediate vital war on terror is made more difficult. And we should be particularly concerned that we do not go alone or essentially alone if we can avoid it, because the complications and costs of post-war Iraq would be far better managed and shared with United Nation's participation. And, while American security must never be ceded to any institution or to another institution's decision, I say to the President, show respect for the process of international diplomacy because it is not only right, it can make America stronger - and show the world some appropriate patience in building a genuine coalition. Mr. President, do not rush to war.”
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Well, that sums that up nicely..
...I had wondered what the exact position Kerry had taken on IWR. It is quite evident he stands on solid ground and deserves support for his position.

At the time of the resolution, I stated on GD that the Dems were giving * just enough rope to hang himself. He has just about hung himself, hasn't he?

Glad to read the facts about Kerry's IWR position. Makes me feel better about supporting him, if it comes down to it.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Now that's a refreshing response.
Here are some more statements:

(This one thanks to Sandnsea)

"I think the administration has behaved quite clumsily and haphazardly on a lot of foreign policy fronts," Kerry said in an interview with editors and reporters.

Kerry, who has taken the lead among Democrats in breaking out of the party's post-Sept 11 reluctance to criticize Bush on foreign affairs, said he believed a power struggle in the Bush team was at least partially responsible for mixed signals sent to both Israel and the Palestinians.

"It's a most incredible display in my judgment of a kind of amateur hour, and the reason is there is no one person in charge," Kerry said. "Colin Powell is not being allowed to be secretary of state, in my judgment. They restrain him."

Kerry also questioned the tough message directed at Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, accused by Bush of belonging to an "axis of evil" and developing chemical, biological and nuclear weapons. Bush has said he will use all available tools to unseat the Iraqi leader.

"The rhetoric has been a huge mistake, the rhetoric is way ahead of the possibilities," Kerry said. "Frankly, that just makes us look silly and strengthens him to some degree."
http://www.dawn.com/2002/07/19/int3.htm


“If we are to put American lives at risk in a foreign war, President Bush must be able to say to this nation that we had no choice, that this was the only way we could eliminate a threat we could not afford to tolerate.”
http://www.mail-archive.com/ctrl@listserv.aol.com/msg95577.html


A couple days later (29th), the President gave his State of the Union address. Kerry’s press release said of Bush:

“He talked about keeping Americans safe, but has too often practiced a blustering unilateralism that is wrong, and even dangerous, for our country. He talked about holding Saddam Hussein accountable, but has too often ignored opportunities to unify the world against this brutal dictator.”
http://kerry.senate.gov/bandwidth/cfm/record.cfm?id=189997


Most recently, in Will Pitt’s article, Kerry said:

“This was the hardest vote I have ever had to cast in my entire career,” Kerry said. “I voted for the resolution to get the inspectors in there, period. Remember, for seven and a half years we were destroying weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. In fact, we found more stuff there than we thought we would. After that came those four years when there was no intelligence available about what was happening over there. I believed we needed to get the weapons inspectors back in.

I believed Bush needed this resolution in order to get the U.N. to put the inspectors back in there. The only way to get the inspectors back in was to present Bush with the ability to threaten force legitimately. That’s what I voted for.

The way Powell, Eagleberger, Scowcroft, and the others were talking at the time,” continued Kerry, “I felt confident that Bush would work with the international community. I took the President at his word. We were told that any course would lead through the United Nations, and that war would be an absolute last resort. Many people

I am close with, both Democrats and Republicans, who are also close to Bush told me unequivocally that no decisions had been made about the course of action. Bush hadn’t yet been hijacked by Wolfowitz, Perle, Cheney and that whole crew. Did I think Bush was going to charge unilaterally into war? No. Did I think he would make such an incredible mess of the situation? No. Am I angry about it? You’re God damned right I am. I chose to believe the President of the United States. That was a terrible mistake.”

_____________________________________________________________________

"He talked about keeping Americans safe, but has too often practiced a blustering unilateralism that is wrong, and even dangerous, for our country. He talked about holding Saddam Hussein accountable, but has too often ignored opportunities to unify the world against this brutal dictator." 01/28/2003 Response to President Bush's State of the Union http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000003144&keywo ...


"I firmly believe that Saddam Hussein is a brutal dictator who must be disarmed. But I also believe that a heavy-handed approach will leave us to carry the burden almost alone. That's why I was one of the first Democrats to speak up and urge President Bush to go to the United Nations - because even a country as great as the United States needs some friends in this world.

The President says that war should be a last resort. He says it; I mean it -- because I know the cost of war. I have seen it with my own eyes. If I am commander in chief, I won't just have the perspective that comes from sitting in the Situation Room. I'll have the perspective that comes from serving on the front lines. And I tell you this: the United States should never go to war because it wants to; it should go to war only because it has to."
03/14/2003 http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000003617&keywo ...


I am here today to reject the narrow vision of those who would build walls to keep the world out, or who would prefer to strike out on our own instead of forging coalitions and step by step creating a new world of law and mutual security.

I believe the Bush Administration's blustering unilateralism is wrong, and even dangerous, for our country. In practice, it has meant alienating our long-time friends and allies, alarming potential foes and spreading anti-Americanism around the world.

Too often they've forgotten that energetic global leadership is a strategic imperative for America, not a favor we do for other countries. Leading the world's most advanced democracies isn't mushy multilateralism—it amplifies America's voice and extends our reach. Working through global institutions doesn't tie our hands—it invests US aims with greater legitimacy and dampens the fear and resentment that our preponderant power sometimes inspires in others.

In a world growing more, not less interdependent, unilateralism is a formula for isolation and shrinking influence. As much as some in the White House may desire it, America can't opt out of a networked world. We can do better than we are doing today. And those who seek to lead have a duty to offer a clear vision of how we make Americans safer and make America more trusted and respected in the world. 01/23/2003
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000003082&keywo ...


"I find myself angered, saddened and dismayed by the situation in which this nation finds itself tonight. As the world's sole superpower in an increasingly hostile and dangerous world, our government's obligation to protect the security of the United States and the law abiding nations of the world could not be more clear, particularly in the aftermath of September 11.

Yet the Administration's handling of the run up to war with Iraq could not possibly have been more inept or self-defeating. President Bush has clumsily and arrogantly squandered the post 9/11 support and goodwill of the entire civilized world in a manner that will make the jobs ahead of us -- both the military defeat and the rebuilding of Iraq -- decidedly more expensive in every sense of that word.

Even having botched the diplomacy, it is the duty of any President, in the final analysis, to defend this nation and dispel the security threats - threats both immediate and longer term - against it. Saddam Hussein has brought military action upon himself by refusing for twelve years to comply with the mandates of the United Nations. The brave and capable men and women of our armed forces and those who are with us will quickly, I know, remove him once and for all as a threat to his neighbors, to the world, and to his own people, and I support their doing so.

My strong personal preference would have been for the Administration -- like the Administration of George Bush, Sr. -- to have given diplomacy more time, more commitment, a real chance of success. In my estimation, giving the world thirty additional days for additional real multilateral coalition building -- a real summit, not a five hour flyby with most of the world's powers excluded -- would have been prudent and no impediment to our military situation, an assessment with which our top military brass apparently agree. Unfortunately, that is an option that has been disregarded by President Bush." Statement of Senator John Kerry Regarding President Bush's Announcement on Iraq 03/18/2003
http://www.vote-smart.org/speech_detail.php?speech_id=M000003667&keywo ...


In back-to-back speeches, the senators, John Kerry, Democrat of Massachusetts, and Chuck Hagel, Republican of Nebraska, said they had come to their decisions after the administration agreed to pursue diplomatic solutions and work with the United Nations to forestall a possible invasion.

"I will vote yes," said Mr. Kerry, a possible presidential candidate in 2004, "because on the question of how best to hold Saddam Hussein accountable, the administration, including the president, recognizes that war must be our last option to address this threat, not the first, and that we should be acting in concert with allies around the globe to make the world's case against Saddam Hussein."

Mr. Hagel said the administration should not interpret his support or that of others as an endorsement of the use of pre-emptive force to press ideological disagreements.

"Because the stakes are so high, America must be careful with her rhetoric and mindful of how others perceive her intentions," Mr. Hagel said. "Actions in Iraq must come in the context of an American-led, multilateral approach to disarmament, not as the first case for a new American doctrine involving the pre-emptive use of force."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/10/10/politics/10IRAQ.html?ex=1074920400&e ...


The Massachusetts senator has stood by his vote last fall for the Iraq resolution in the face of criticism from anti-war Democrats and rival Howard Dean, a former Vermont governor who opposed the U.S.-led war. Kerry qualified his support Monday, saying it was the correct vote "based on the information that we were given."

"The president promised to build the international coalition, to do this as a matter of last resort, to go through the United Nations process and respect it," he said. "And in the end, it is clear now that he didn't do that sufficiently. And I think in that regard, the American people were let down."

Kerry said he voted for the resolution with the understanding that the administration would build an international coalition before attacking Saddam Hussein's forces.

"It seems quite clear to me that the president circumvented that process, shortchanged it and did not give full meaning to the words 'last resort,"' Kerry said in a 20-minute conference call with reporters.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2003/07/21/n ...


John Kerry's Statement on Iraq Before the War
http://www.independentsforkerry.org/uploads/media/kerry-iraq.html
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Bush made a very convincing case for war against Iraq...
Just ask Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman, Gephardt...

:eyes:

Or, if you lean republican, just blame Clinton.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Thanks for listening
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:21 PM
Response to Original message
3. All in agreement are we?
:kick:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
4. kick
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 04:26 PM
Response to Original message
5. kicks
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
6.  kick for the late crowd
:kick:
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hey, bigtree
Your post was a tree-sized post and hard for many to really bite into. Might I suggest it be whittled down into a size that folks can at least get their hands around? <grin>

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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Feb-08-04 11:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. I am sympathetic Free

I've endured endless flak for my position on this. I have facts to support my argument. It represents most of the debates I have had on this so far.

But not this one. It's all the wax. It is here for a resource. Folks can take it as they will. I didn't leave any of my argument out. I hate to dissemble on this when confronted. This is as much as I am willing to argue.

Next debate on this I will refer to my post.

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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 12:13 AM
Response to Reply #12
14. I'm down with that...
For all the reading I have done on DU, never before have I seen such a compilation of what Kerry did say about IWR and what his stand has been since the invasion. You, Sir, have laid it out quite well. I applaud you.

Yes, let it all hang out. Let the truth be told, as you have done here.
I am much, much more appreciative of the Senator's position now that the facts are known. Thanks.
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hedgetrimmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
13. Ideas are walls, we all have them... it gives a sense of reality...
a little nudge to ourselves that who, what and how we are is o.k....

I am not being won in this attempted political seduction...

if this is re-inspiring to the said ideals and coddles the said beliefs I say go for it! and this thread has, many blessings.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 12:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. hedgetrimmer
I am more interested in the workings of government than with the seduction of politics. It does seduce. It needs no nudge from me. I mostly aim to promote a better understanding of how ideas and ideals are affected as they make their way through our political system of compromise.

That's probably the only redeeming factor in politics in the end. The compromise.

Thanks for looking in. :)
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
16. kicking
:kick:
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zoeyfong Donating Member (508 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 01:25 AM
Response to Original message
17. We all know what that vote was about. It was war vs. no war.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 01:37 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. The vote was about this:...
Edited on Mon Feb-09-04 01:41 AM by BeFree
The US do something more about Saddam Hussien and the UN be totally involved in whatever happens in Iraq.

Saddam was seen, rightly so, as a world stage criminal. Most Americans felt something had to be done about him. Most Americans also wanted the UN to be wholly involved.

We all know that the UN backed out of going along with the actions the US eventually took. We know why, too. The UN backed out because * had made up his mind to invade and the UN wanted no part of that. So * evaded the wishes of the congress in that he did an end-around the UN.

Don't blame the Dems for *'s later evasions of the IWR intent.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
19. kick defense
:kick:
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. :kick:
:kick:
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
21. An Excellent Piece, Mr. Tree
You are quite correct in your points, Sir.

The responsibility for the invasion of Iraq rests with the criminals of the '00 Coup, and no others. A policy is the responsibility of those who author, press, and execute it. The people will not be fooled in this matter; they know who the Executive is.

The invasion would have taken place with or without this resolution. The Executive has the authority to deploy troops freely, and has the authority to commit them to combat, with sixty days afterwards to secure Congressional ratification. This may not be desirable, but it is so.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Feb-09-04 09:35 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. It is regrettably so

Thanks for looking in.
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LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Thanks bigtree,
You brought in some good points that need to added to the debate.
Did you see this article in The New Yorker?

http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040216fa_fact1
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-10-04 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. What a facinating article

Quote:

"If you’re paying attention, you can hear the sound of Democratic leaders straining to pry the Party away from its long aversion to America’s world leadership."

Thank you for this. Thanks for looking in. :)
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