What's up with the INDEPENDENT GREEN CANDIDATE in VIRGINIA?

[thatsrightimirish]

Let this poll speak for itself

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReportEmail.aspx?g=cf6e41b6-dcf0-40ff-970f-9bcca39ba98b
49% Allen (R)
46% Webb (D)
2% Parker (IG)
3% Other/Undecided
the margin of error is 4

So who is she taking votes from?

[williesgirl]

1. Webb, naturally. Why they don't just register as Repukes I'll never know.

[TechBear_Seattle]

2. Why the Democrats refuse to address the issues that the Green Party does...

Issues such as equal rights, world peace and genuine concern for the way business is throwing away any future we have as a planet, I'll never know. Mostly because trying to get answers from Democrats as to why they refuse to address these issues, or even actively work against them, usually meets with party fanatics quelling all dissent as traitorous.

If Democrats don't want third parties to siphon away votes, they had damned well better start addressing the concerns of third party voters.

[Vidar]

5. Well said.

[Hippo_Tron]

10. If you can't see the difference between Webb and Allen, you are blind

Webb was opposed to Iraq before we went in and he wants to get out of there ASAP. He is pro-choice, for lobbying reform, pro middle class, supports civil unions, supports giving our troops the necessary supplies, supports veterans benefits, is pro affirmative action for African Americans, is against a constitutional amendment to ban flag burning, and he supports interrogations according to the Geneva Convention.

George Cement-Head Allen takes the opposite stance on every single one of these issues and is a rubber stamp for Bush. And in case you've been asleep for the past 3 months, he's also a huge racist.

[TechBear_Seattle]

12. You illustrate my point beautifully

Rather than ask, "Why are people supporting a third party candidate?" you get all fascist and assert than anyone who does not vote as you would have them vote is a blind, ignorant fool.

There are reasons why people have turned away from the Democratic Party and chosen to support Labor, Libertarian, Green, New, Progressive and other third parties. Don't you care in the slightest as to why, and what can be done to woo these voters back? Haven't you realized yet that the more you rant and froth about how third parties are "destroying America," the more you prove the irrelevance of the major parties and drive voters away?

[Hippo_Tron]

13. As far as I'm concerned Webb IS doing what should be done to woo these voters back

Jim Webb is fighting for a lot of issues that I care about as a liberal. Assuming that Green voters are liberals as well, which I believe they are, I can't understand why they wouldn't vote for Webb because as I just said, he is championing a lot of liberal issues.

You seem to feel otherwise and despite my heated rhetoric in my previous post I am interested in discussing this. Why doesn't Jim Webb deserve the support of Green party voters?

[thatsrightimirish]

14. i agree

If webb loses the course in Iraq and many other issues will remain the same. How could greens want that? By the way I found out the green independent party is not the same as the green party we all know and love.

[TechBear_Seattle]

19. Obviously, there are voters who don't agree with you

Are they traitors for voting their conscience? Do they have no right to give their vote to a candidate they believe is better? What can/should Webb do to attract them? (Other than have people demean them, thereby confirming their opinion of the Democratic Party.)

[Hippo_Tron]

37. Once again, what is so bad about Webb that one should vote Green?

I don't see how voting for Webb wouldn't be voting your conscience if you are a liberal because he is fighting for liberal issues. I keep feeling the need to emphasize this because some people like Ralph Nader have tried in the past to distort the liberal credentials of democratic candidates saying that they are the same as Republicans and that is why people should vote Green.

I'm not calling anyone a traitor or saying that they don't have a right to vote Green. However, the fact is that in America we have a two party system. It is impossible to get elected to any major office as a third party candidate unless you are rich, famous, or already in office. Parker is none of those things and therefore he can't win on the Green party ticket. Webb actually has a chance of winning and therefore he has a chance of going to Washington to fight for liberal causes that I care about and I would hope that Green party voters would care about.

[TechBear_Seattle]

39. And once again, ask the Greens. I am not a Green, nor do I live in VA

I am trying to make a point about the general attitude against minor parties and the people who support them.

[FDR33]

42. Of course they're

not traitors, did anyone say that? But they're supporting Republicans by not voting against them.

[Trajan]

18. As much as I respect Green issues ....

I dont see the point behind a strategy that, in the end, puts Republicans in office .....

It seems masochistic .....

Enter the coalition, and CHANGE like minds from within ....

Why do Greens want to punish us ? ....

Why do they want to hurt us ? ...

[PVnRT]

32. Given what you were just told

why won't you support Webb? He seems to be addressing many of the issues that the Green party seems to concern itself with. Something tells me that as long as there's a "D" behind his name, nothing will be good enough, right?

"Don't you care in the slightest as to why, and what can be done to woo these voters back?"

We're apparently ignorant. Perhaps you should explain it to us.

[TechBear_Seattle]

35. I never said I wouldn't support Webb. Where did you get that?

My post was about the arrogant attitude and strong-arm brutality that so many Democrats have in dealing with third parties and their candidates.

[Rowdyboy]

15. I honestly respect you but ask that you understand....its Virginia.....

If Jim Webb has any hope of beating George Allen, campaigning on world peace, equal rights and opposing corpratism would pretty much doom it.

Isn't his anti-Iraq stance enough, considering that his opponent is George "Macaca" Allen? If the independent-green had any class he'd follow the lead of the green in Chris Shays district, reisgn from the race, and endorse the Democrat.

[pnwmom]

16. You don't have any idea how hard it is to get Democratic

votes in the state of Virginia. Espousing all the positions of the Greens would drive more voters away than it would attract. The Greens don't really care about equal rights or world peace or even our Constitution. If they did, they would be joining with the Democrats now to drive the Republicans out of office.

As Molly Ivins has said, a loaf of bread is great -- but half a loaf is better than none. The Green party would rather get an empty breadbasket than take the half a loaf.

[skipos]

25. So Lamont isn't progressive enough?

Greens are working to defeat him. Why?

[TechBear_Seattle]

26. You could ask the Greens yourself, if DU didn't have a policy of driving them away

Personally, I would feel very good about voting for Lamont. But specific candidates are not my point: the above rant was at the general attitude against third party voters. As with the "war on drugs" and the "war on terrorism," Democrats find it much easier to condemn and punish, when addressing the cause and dealing with the problem at the root would be far more productive.

[skipos]

31. The problem at the root is that

Greens will run against candidates like Lamont and Paul Wellstone and there is nothing Democrats can do about it. The only good thing is that most American's see through the deceit and ego of many 3rd parties. While 3 million believed Nader's lies (no difference between Bush and Gore) in 2000 only 400,000 believed them in 2004. It is too bad that America had to learn the hard way though.

[TechBear_Seattle]

33. And neither major party has any truck with ego and deceipt

My god, but you are arrogant. Or blind, I can't decide which.

[skipos]

40. There is plenty of of ego and deceit

in the Democratic party, but the things is Democrats are able to accomplish things on a national level. What has the Green Party accomplished nationally? Voting for Lamont enables not only a better senator for CT, but also a Democratic majority, which gives all Democratic senators more power. What does voting for Ferrucci do? We know that it is either goiing to be Lieberman or Lamont in that seat.

No need to insult me.

[oasis]

27. "addressing the concerns of third party voters". Sorry, but this is no

time for Dems to massage the egos of a bunch of whiney brats. There is just too much at stake.

[magnolia]

34. Jim Webb has addressed these issues!

[magnolia]

36. And if the Dems don't do exactly....

....as the "third party voters" want, then what. The third party voters suffer under total republican control! By not compromising with the party that is closest to your beliefs, you hurt yourself.

[earthside]

4. A Vote for Parker is a Vote for Parker.

A vote for Webb is a vote for Webb.

A vote for Allen is a vote for Allen.

People in this country have a right to vote for whomever they want, according to the dictates of the own conscience.

Democrats do not 'own' every left of center vote.

Republicans do not 'own' every right of center vote.

This idea of one candidate or another "stealing" votes from some other candidate is arrogant and disrespectful of our fellow Americans.

Period.

[Hippo_Tron]

9. Dupe n/t

Dupe n/t

[dnbmathguy]

3. Actually... maybe not

The Independent Green Party of Virginia is different from the Green Party - seems their big issue is trains. I wouldn't consider them liberal:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independent_Green_Party_of_Virginia

[pnwmom]

17. Wow. I bet this causes a lot of confusion among new voters.

[mainegreen]

29. Yours facts will be ignored by the vast majority here.

*sigh*

[bigdarryl]

6. thats an old poll todays polling had Webb up 4 points

[thatsrightimirish]

7. no its not

It was taken on 10/22-24

[Stinky The Clown]

8. Here's one showing Webb in the lead ....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2905722

[TheVirginian]

21. The LAT poll finished on 10/23. Two polls are newer than that.

Both Survey USA and Rasmussen completed their polling on October 24th, the day after the Los Angeles Times completed theirs.

Survey USA has Allen up three points, 49-46. Ramussen has Allen up one point, 49-48.

[McCamy Taylor]

11. Be suspicious if Parker's final vote leaps up to 5-6%.

[TheVirginian]

22. That's not likely. Russell Potts (I) was polling at 6%, only got 2%.

Third-parties always poll better than the outcome. That's because the people who say they'd vote for them either stay home, or reconsider "throwing their vote away" when they get to a poll.

[terryg11]

20. WHY DO THE DEMS KEEP STEALING GREEN VOTES?!?!

Seriously, everyone acts like it's the third parties' fault that the dems can't get all the "liberal" votes.

[magnolia]

38. Vote for who ever you want.

But ask yourself, what is your vote accomplishing. What did a vote for Nader in 2000 accomplish? Well, it certainly made the war in Iraq possible! Is that how you get world peace? Gandhi is not a candidate. So you vote for those who you have the best chance of influencing.

[terryg11]

43. voting for someone who doesnt represnt you accomplishes what?

I understand the frustrations of seeing the worst choice win due to divisiveness within the lib ranks but people need to vote for whom best represents them. Have you ever looked at a third party candidate and said something like, " YOu know, if they had a better chance at winning I would vote for them"? Yeah, and then think of everyone else who thinks that same thing then holds their nose and votes for the one thats supposed to have the better chance at winning. For some of those "fringe" candidates their biggest obstacle is people voting out of fear of the republican taking office so they compromise their vote.

[TheVirginian]

23. She's taking votes from non-voters and undecideds

90% of people who tell a pollster that they'd vote for Gail Parker heard her name for the first time from that pollster. In most cases, a vote for a third-party is the same as an "undecided" or "uninterested" vote. People who say they'd vote for Parker are the ones most likely to stay home.

[skipos]

24. Greens are trying to help Lieberman defeat Lamont too

It is no surprise that they are working to defeat Webb too.

[mainegreen]

28. DELETE

sorry 'bout that.

[TheVirginian]

41. Its two different parties. Parker is part of the Independent Green (IG) Party.

[onenote]

30. I'll eat my hat if the green candidate gets 2 percent

Hell, even Nader only got 2 percent in Virginia. And people had heard of Nader. I guarantee that less than 1 percent of the voters in Virginia know the name of the Green candidate (or that there even is a Green candidate).