Kos is a distortionist.

[Firespirit]

It is probably no secret that Kos (not the DailyKos.com site btw) harbors a grudge against John Kerry for the 2004 primaries. Whatever. He's entitled to his favorites the same as everyone else, and he's even entitled to dislike someone for a personal reason. We all are.

However, Kos deserves to be called out when he makes Rovian political distortionist remarks against Kerry or any Democrat. And he has done just that today with his attack on Kerry spokesman David Wade.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/24/13546/986

Kos quotes Wade's slam of the anonymous attack site HeyJohn.org:

"Cowards can hide behind anonymous Web sites," Mr. Wade said, "but Democrats out in the country, party leaders and real net-roots activists know how hard John Kerry has fought to win these elections."

The comment was SPECIFICALLY IN REFERENCE TO HEYJOHN.ORG. NOT to Kos pal Chris Bowers's campaign to get unchallenged or under-challenged House incumbents to donate money to contested races. Because.... the Bowers campaign was targeted to HOUSE INCUMBENTS! Not Senators, and specifically not potential 2008 presidential candidates.

But Kos pretends that the Wade comment was somehow directed at Bowers, him, and the blogosphere:

Bowers doesn't look that anonymous to me. Nor am I. But to Wade, here's a hearty "fuck you". We have long memories.

Yep, glad to see how observant you are, Kos. Bowers isn't that anonymous, and neither are you. So maybe... he wasn't talking about you? Hmm... maybe we should direct that "fuck you" right back atcha.

He continues, though, in this vein.

And insulting people like Bowers doing heroic work to change the stultified culture in DC Democratic establishment circles isn't the best strategy.

Memo to Kos: Unless Bowers is responsible for the anonymous attack site that Wade was talking about, he wasn't the one insulted. This really isn't that hard.

It gets worse, with Kos completely ignoring the facts of what Kerry has done.

Ask any campaign around the country at this stage what they would prefer -- a campaign visit from Kerry (or anyone else save the Big Dog), or cold hard cash, and guess what they'll answer? Money and volunteers will help us close this election strong. Not campaign appearances that is more about Kerry building support and chits for 2008 as it is about helping our guys this year.

Several things wrong with this.

1. The election is not about Bill Effing Clinton.
2. False dichotomy. It's not a fucking choice of campaign visits or donations, and it's certainly not as though Kerry's done one and not the other.
3. Kerry has been doing far more than making campaign visits. He has donated over $3.2 million of his campaign war chest this election cycle to candidates and committees. That's not including what he has raised for other candidates, using his own campaign's money to pay for fundraising on an email list that he could easily have used to raise money for himself instead (ahem, Hillary).
3. Kerry has used his email list to mobilize lawyers for election protection and poll watching in several key states. That'd be "volunteers," I would say.
4. Kerry's organization will use its email list to recruit volunteers for local campaigns nationwide.
5. If I donate money to John Kerry (or anyone, for that matter!), it's because I want to express my support for John Kerry. Not because I want him to forward the money on to someone else. This is especially pertinent for potential 2008 candidates: People donate to them now because they support them for 2008!

Whatever your opinion of Kerry may be, or for that matter of Kos, it's only fair to call them as we see them. Kos has a personal grudge against someone and he is using that to spread distortions and lies against that person in the exact same style that Rove does -- pretending that he is being attacked and playing the victim, while marshalling his troops with the same accusation against them: "By insulting me, he insulted you." It's Rovian to the core and it's how Rove keeps his fundamentalist troops in line. If we are going to act this way, we should do it against Republicans, NOT against our own.

Shame on you, Kos.

[blm]

1. This is the same tactic Rush used against Clinton after Oklahoma bombing.

Clinton blamed the heated anti-government rhetoric of hate radio.

Rush turned around and claimed Clinton was attacking him and rallied his listeners to defend him.

Et tu, Kos?

WHY, though, is Kos carrying Schumer's water, anyway? Most of us at DU and Kos chose to give directly to candidates instead of DSCC to protest their lack of support for Alito filibuster, DSM inquiry, Fiengold's censure, and the Kerry-Feingold withdrawal plan. Just like Kerry has been donating DIRECTLY to candidates.

So, why the GOP like spin? Is Kos doing Schumer and Hillary's work for them, like HeyJohn website tried to?

DSCC is just taking OUR ANGER at them and blaming Kerry for it, because he was involved in all the above named issues.

[Firespirit]

4. Kos cannot get past winter 2004

And you know, he's fully entitled to hate whomever he wants, for whatever reason, fair or unfair. As much as it pisses me off when he attacks my favorite Democrat.

But he is NOT entitled to post lies and distortions against them, Rove-style.

[Capn Sunshine]

53. I just have to ask

why you care WHAT Kos thinks.

<rant on Kerry deleted because, what's the fucking point any more>

[SouthernBelle82]

56. Because Kos has people who read his site

both people on the left and people on the right and if people see he is telling a lie they might think it's the truth and spread it around.

[SouthernBelle82]

55. In my opinion

he's attacking the truth and reality and not so much about Kerry and his team.

[Kolesar]

26. I gave to candidates &not the DSCC because I am under the $2100 limit

Donating to the DSCC is a way for a wealthy Democrat to contribute even more to candidates (than the $2100/election allowed in the election law).

[Alhena]

2. Very counterproductive

I hope we can keep our eye on the ball here and not fight among each other. Not one of Kos' finer moments.

[Firespirit]

7. Agreed

What he did was not helpful.

[MADem]

13. Gee, ya have to wonder just WHO came up with that chickenshit

Hey, John website? Given all the griping, especially....

No guts, no glory.

I thought that "anonymous" effort was cowardice defined, myself. It's why I put no credence in any of these "Mean Kerry hanging on to the Money" rants.

[LeftCoast]

3. If you feel so strongly take it up on dKos

It's kinda chickenshit to do it here where Kos won't respond.

[Firespirit]

5. There are rules on Kos against calling members out by name. /nt

[LeftCoast]

8. Wonderful, so call him out here.

:eyes:

[MADem]

17. It's as good a place as any--there was a big thread on that anonymous

'hey john' website just the other day. And it IS a valid point. When someone who has "issues" with a Democratic candidate for president suddenly starts getting shirty about this ONE person (and not others with equally large war chests) in the waning days of the campaign season, you have to ask yourself just why the fuck they are doing it, if not to increase their OWN profile, and have one last shot at 'proving' that they can motivate people and rile a large base.

The answer I come up with is that the guy is trying to break out and become a bigger 'playa' than he already is--by using his personal cachet, charm and fame to influence events--and I personally hate it when people make it all about THEM.

It's about the candidates, their ideas and what they stand for, not the operatives. Remember the lesson of Dick Toesucker Morris!!!

I might well be wrong, but that is how he's coming across to me. It seems a bit...self-serving, frankly. And I am not impressed.

[ichblog]

44. Kos' pack dogs

Kos' pack dogs would downrate this kind of post so fast he would not have the chance to respond as his membership privileges would be revoked.

[RogueTrooper]

45. Actually

I think Kos is a member of DU as well. Technically he can't be called out here either. ;-)

[wyldwolf]

10. Is that applicable to everyone?

People not on DU get called out here daily.

[ProSense]

11. Kos runs a very prominent blog

and positions himself as a talking head. He's fair game! Blog posts are always called out and linked to here!

[blm]

12. People are calling Kos on it - he just LIED in response and said HeyJohn

is acting on Bower's call for congressional Dems to turn over their money to congressional candidates.

Problem with that is HeyJohn website went up the day BEFORE Bowers put up his call.

Bottom line - Kos is lying, and people don't need swiftsmearing right before the next election, especially against the Democrat who HAS donated the most money and hasn't stopped campaigning for Dem candidates for the last 18 months.

My guess is there is another motivation behind all this smearing, and I think it has to do with Kos stalking for Hillary now that Warner is out.

[MADem]

18. Gee, why doesn't he put his 'crack' team of sleuths on the case, and

find out who is behind HEYJOHN?

Could it be he only has to look in the mirror? Inquiring minds want to know.

[wyldwolf]

28. I wasn't thinking specifically KOS, but someone of that stripe

[KoKo]

34. Why do you think Kos would "stalk for Hillary?"

:shrug:

[blm]

50. Because he was with Warner, and now Hillary's spreading the big $$$$

And the HeyJohn site went after Kerry while lauding Hillary who has actually done WAY less. She only recently donated 2 mil to others while sitting on 40 million.

[LeftCoast]

14. Well, the ThoughtGuard are out in force today

Shame on me for being annoyed at Democrats shooting each other in the feet.

:spank:

[Firespirit]

16. Don't.

He started this, and he's going to get called on it. If he hadn't opened his mouth and fired the first shot against a Democrat, I wouldn't have a word to say against him.

[blm]

20. Kos is shooting at Dems and we are calling him on it.

Right before an election, why on earth would any Dem be making blatantly false attacks like this on the one Dem who has donated more money and time to candidates than any other?

Should lies be allowed to sit and do their damage or should they be corrected?

[KoKo]

35. Where did Kos go after Kerry? Have a link? n/t

[MH1]

38. It's in the op

Kos has done it many times before, too.

[LittleClarkie]

39. I just did that just now

But it won't do any good. Kos is an assclown.

[JI7]

43. it was taken up on Kos and will be taken up here also

i'm sure nobody would have had a problem with it if someone linked to Kos in order to bash Kerry. just as people linked to the heyjohn site.

[MADem]

6. He's a partisan within a partisan organization. It happens.

The grand buffet that is the Democratic party has many dishes on the table. He's one. He's a big dish, but not the only dish by any stretch. And it probably wouldn't hurt him to be aware of creeping hubris. Morton Downey Junior thought he was the "last word" once upon a time. Nowadays, most people say "WHO?"

Just because you CAN rally a large group of people doesn't mean you always SHOULD. He should pick his battles a bit more judiciously, IMO, and be a bit less carping in his criticisms. He'll have a bitch of a time trying to walk back his bitter and bitchy stance should circumstances put Kerry in the driver's seat in 08...and anything (save Bill Clinton being allowed to run again) can happen. And then he just might find himself oh, a bit...marginalized, without a ticket to the big dance, or stuck in a lousy seat in the back row. Darn, doncha hate when that happens!

The assumption that JFK "HAS TO" move the money his supporters gave him to other contests isn't valid. He doesn't have a PAC set up expressly to support other candidates, like some do, and that dough was, in fact, contributed with the understanding that it was for HIS political ambitions--he never pledged to move it around, and he can keep what I gave him, too.

Despite that, I say disagree with the the Kos crowd, and move on. Don't give the JFK haters any validation or steam for their whining engine. We've got an election to win, and we need all hands on deck, and this is just a distraction.

[Firespirit]

15. Well, he actually does have a PAC

And he uses the PAC to support other candidates. He's been doing it all year, on the order of $11 million for everyone's favorites (Tester, Webb, McCaskill, plus a boatload of House challengers). He also gave $3 million in direct contributions.

So what kos says isn't just harmful, it's false.

I actually would just leave it be. I don't like doing this shit and don't like entering this type of fray within (I assume) the party itself. But I can't stand seeing this lie spread in such a viral manner.

[MADem]

19. Well, there ya go, then. I didn't contribute to his PAC, I gave to HIM.

And I'm happy for him to keep the dough if he wants to take another crack at it.

[SouthernBelle82]

57. And he has also

gone directly to places and helped campaign for those people. I wish Kerry would come here and help Ford. *Sigh* I would love to see him live.

[wyldwolf]

9. no news to me

[LoZoccolo]

52. Me neither.

I remember he was going to unveil his plan to make the DLC "radioactive" and then Hurricane Katrina hit, which was proof positive that the "no difference between Democrats and Republicans" faction doesn't know what they're talking about.

[enough already]

21. Rove laughs his fat ass off when he sees threads like this

2 weeks from a huge election and we're fighting amongst ourselves. Stupid.

[Firespirit]

22. So your solution is to ignore a blatant lie about Democrats?

[blm]

23. Kos is lying about the Dem donating most money to candidates and

spending the most time and you think it's OK that he do that right before an election? This is a deliberate smear campaign to tear down the best fundraiser Dem candidates have had and you want to blame those correcting the lie?

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. Kos is serving Rove's intentions with his shameful lie about Kerry

This thread IS highlighting support for Democrats; the question is, why is KOS, two weeks before an election, lying about John Kerry?

[enough already]

29. Forget it, you all proved my point

I'm done playing Rove's game.

[WildEyedLiberal]

31. So Kos can lie about Democrats - that's not Rove's game?

But people who fight back against the lies are playing Rove's game?

Whatever you say! :crazy:

[SouthernBelle82]

58. So according to you

you'd rather a lie be out there about a high profiled Democrat going around the country giving his support publically and with money doesn't matter right? :roll: Stop blaming Rove for Kos's lie.

[Alhena]

24. Has Kos weighed in on Obama?

Has Kos written about Obama since he made the possibility of his running in 2008 known? I seem to recall Kos saying he was underwhelmed by the current crop of likely candidates (as am I, absent Obama) and was wondering if he has discussed Obama lately.

[saltpoint]

63. Don't know about Kos on Obama, but Kerry was the man who asked

Obama to deliver the 2004 Keynote Address to the nation from the Democratic Convention.

To the extent Kos respects Obama, he might consider who put him on that podium in Boston.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

64. Great point

I had not heard that before.

[zulchzulu]

27. Kos is a mealy-mouth, self-important punk in my book

I've always thought he was a bit of a lightweight as well.

[blue cat]

30. I lost respect for kos

after seeing at least 2 diaries posted about Kerry that had the word "fuck" in it. Republicans would never use the word fuck in referring to another republican.

[cosmicdot]

32. he's a "Fellow" at New Politics Institute

http://www.newpolitics.net/network/fellows

a creation of ndn.org ("making globalization work for all Americans")

as in 'New' Democrats, as in Third Way
http://www.ndn.org/

a DLC off-shoot, once known as newdem.org ... now, is called NDN.org, Simon Rosenberg's thing .. Simon was a Fellow at conservative, corporatist Aspen Institute


draw your own conclusions


check out the blogs at ndn.org ... who all is there? just themselves? ... before requiring any sign-in, comments consisted of the postings of one-two people ... take the wayback machine to see --->
** http://web.archive.org/web/20050325022348/www.ndnblog.org/

ndn's affiliates are nothing more than entities it created

set up at tax exempt organization; get someone/something to donate money; pay yourself a salary; self-promote one's involvement; create perception ... it's quite easy to do with the Internet and PR skills, i.e., "NDN is a powerful, national network of leaders committed to meeting the challenges of the 21st century ...". Powerful according to themselves. Sell. Market. PR.

another Fellow listed

Mark Penn
"Fresh off advising Tony Blair for his successful run for a third term ..."


caveat emptor


** sample old blog (a 'dynamic discussion'; 'lively exchange')

Summary of March 9th Discussion Event
Posted by michael at 01:47 PM

A group of NDN members recently gathered in San Carlos/Sillicon Valley to engage in a dynamic discussion about how Democrats can better challenge and be prepared to confront Bush's 2nd term agenda .... but here are some of the key points:

Refrain from corporate bashing and strained populism

�We want to make it easier to become a millionaire but harder to stay one�.

We need to modernize the New Deal � kill any vulnerable sacred cows before someone else does. Modernize the safety net


http://web.archive.org/web/20050325022348/www.ndnblog.org/

[SouthernBelle82]

59. Very interesting

Could answer some question's on why Kos likes the canidates he does like Dean and Warner who are more centrist democrats and hates people like Kerry and hardly says anything about him and even John Conyers has only appeared on Kos maybe two or three times.

[wisteria]

33. Great post!

Kos was wrong! He shows real bias when he posts untruths and he does a discredit to the whole blog community. We should maintain certain standards.

[Hippo_Tron]

36. I thinkt his is a fair criticism because Kos is only attacking Kerry

There are other Democrats sitting on their money and Kerry has already donated a fair portion of his. I'm not trying to point fingers here, but Senator Clinton is sitting on $40 million for a senate race that she could win without spending another dollar. These safe incumbents could easily give up $50 million to be split evenly between the DSCC and the DCCC which could give us a huge edge over the GOP.

[jrandom421]

37. No wonder

Steve Jobs is looking and sounding so ordinary! Kos has swiped his 'reality distortion field'!

[bonzotex]

40. Unmm, Kos was dissing David Wade... not Kerry...

I've read the Times article and many other blog posts on this non-issue. Wade's comments could be seen as a dismissive swipe at all blogs and net roots activists, anonymous or not. At least link to the Times piece that is at the core of this non-event.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/24/us/politics/24donate.html

Ok maybe David Wade was just sniping back at the short lived heyjohn site. Then maybe Kos was just sniping back at David Wade. So what?

Now according to this thread Kos is Rovian and a punk and a lightweight and evil,evil because he said FU to a campaign spokesperson. Oh please.

Lets state some generic facts.

Kos is a good Dem
Kerry is a good Dem
David Wade is a good Dem
Everybody on our side is a little tense...this is a critical election.

Some safe elected Democrats are still sitting on piles of money that could ensure victory this cycle.

Some good Democrats would like to see some of that money go to needy, but worthy candidates.

Some donors to Kerry or Clinton or name-your-fav safe-Democrat want their money to stay with candidate "X" Some donors don't care as long as it gets spent to defeat repugs. (I'm one of those and yes I've donated to Kerry)

Kerry has done a lot for other candidates. Still, he's sitting in $14,000,000. Other senators and congress-critters are sitting on similar war chests.

These candidates and elected officials work for us. It's perfectly legitimate for any constituent or donor to question and suggest how campaign funds are used.

Kos should shrug off perceived attacks on his beloved net roots, but David Wade shouldn't dismiss them as cowards either.

We should all take a deep breath and get back to work.

[AtomicKitten]

41. it's a difference of opinion

that must be crushed torches and pitchforks style. There are races opening up in the reddest of states. The DSCC is begging for money to fund them to tip the balance. We are in line for a tsunami if we can get out heads out of the partisan crappola and look at the bigger picture.

[SouthernBelle82]

60. And there are people

who don't like donating to the DSCC or the DCCC but directly to the canidate of their choice. Why do you have a problem with that? What people do with their money is their problem.

[wisteria]

42. Wade and Kerry. He took swipes at Senator Kerry in that post. n/t

[bonzotex]

46. not much of a swipe....

Re-reading Kos post, I just don't see much of an attack on Kerry. The worst thing he says specific to Kerry is that candidates would rather have cash than a fund raising visit from Kerry. At this stage of the election I would have to agree that is true. Kerry is a proven fundraiser, but two weeks away from the vote it's time to spend and stay out on the trail, not schmooze at big dollar rubber-chicken fests.

He does lambaste "safe, lazy, entrenched incumbents". So I guess that could be interpreted as referring to Kerry. I think we can agree that Kerry is not lazy.

In any case, I still say this is much ado about nothing.

[blm]

47. He's NOT sitting on 14 million - he HAD 14 mil, now he has 8 mil.

Because he donated most of that money to candidates and Dem organizations and raised millions more for them - his donations are upwards of 15 million at this point in the cycle.

NO ONE has donated more time and money than Kerry. The constant sniping is UNDESERVED and based on FALSE CLAIMS against Kerry.

[bonzotex]

65. So you say...

The Boston globe article of Oct 21 says he has 14 million still.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/10/21/kerry_is_pressured_to_share_campaign_wealth/

Maybe he doesn't. Certainly he's given a lot and done a lot. The Globe article fairly details all he has given.

The only thing I see unfair about this is that Kerry is maybe being singled out more than other incumbent Dems. He's more high profile and was after all our last Presidential candidate and might be again. This kind of sniping is nothing compared to what he'll get in another presidential bid.

[bonzotex]

66. Ok here's what I needed to see...

On the Evil Rovian Daily Kos site:

A very nice update with actual statements by Kerry.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/25/104048/65

excerpt:
JK: Well, I've been, I've done more than 30. (meaning given more than 30% of his campaign chest) I've raised more money than I have, and given it away. Other people have been out raising money for themselves. I'm not raising money for myself. I've only raised money for other candidates. I've spent down on the money that we have in order to have the staff to go out to help other people. I mean, we've been exclusively in the business of trying to help people around the country - I might add, 180 candidates in states most of which have nothing to do with presidential politics 'cause they're not on the calender. So I'm not, you know, I've nothing to be sort of second-guessing here. I'm proud of what we have done. I gave, you know, up front, early. A million dollars we wrote to the DSCC. A million dollars to the DNC. I gave 500 000 to the DCCC. I put 250 000 into the state of Washington to help Christine Gregoire have a recount when it mattered. And so, we're raising money, we've continued to raise money, we've written checks, we've helped people, and we continue to do that.

____

There's more, but the thing that carry's weight here is Kerry himself explaining his actions directly to activist groups rather than a spokesperson whining to the press about the meanies in the blogosphere. I can live with and respect Kerry for that.

____

UPDATED: Senators John Kerry and Ted Kennedy just gave an additional $1 million to the DSCC and the DCCC

Works for me!

[JNelson6563]

48. Just an FYI

Consider how many races there are and the limited resources of the caucuses. Sometimes, when they think a race has a chance but not a high enough chance to put in actual cash, they do send a big name to give the campaign a boost. This doesn't always mean a financial boost either.

So yeah, the whole "if a campaign is given a choice of cash or a visit" scenario is more than possible.

Just throwin' that out there.

Julie

[Canuckistanian]

49. DK is a very valuable site

And it was a trailblazer in blogging on progressive issues, along with MyDD, Atrios and a half dozen others.

However, I'm beginning to have my doubts about Markos Moulitsas himself.

Could it be his newfound fame has exaggerated his own sense of self-importance? Maybe he considers himself the "kingmaker" of grassroots internet movements.

And that may be, but throwing your weight around like a petulant prima donna is getting to be too much.

Kos may be a pioneer and a force to be reckoned with, but he certainly wasn't the only one.

[demdiva]

51. This guy is ridiculous

He starts a blog and it's wildly successful ...why does he have to harbor such hatred towards Kerry? And more importantly, WHY NOW? John Kerry is going out and supporting democrats across the country and now is the time for the Democratic Party to be united. He's responsible for causing divisiveness in the party. Which is totally ironic, because John Kerry has supported Kos by posting there several times.

This guy is only out for himself.


BTW, my DKos tag line (which used to match this one) reads

"If KOS will stop telling lies about John Kerry, then we will stop telling the truth about him." DemDiva, by way of Adlai Stevenson

[SouthernBelle82]

54. Hear hear!

Kos is still a whiner about Dean in 2004 I think. He thinks everything is about him obviously when it was clear that Mr Wade wasn't naming name's or anyone in particular but Kos just thought it was him. :roll:

[saltpoint]

61. The idea of a popular liberal blog sits well but the anti-Kerry vibe

at Daily Kos subverts all Democrats' efforts to play as a team.

I think part of it is a East Coast/West Coast tension, and the notion (not justified) that hip Californians represent netroots truth and East Coast liberals are Old Democrats.

I've lived on both coasts and at this hour, it seems to me that progressives abound in both Boston and Berkeley, and that they need each other. Badly. And for the length of all their times on earth. If we are going to turn this goddam Republican tide around, the grassroots numbers are on the coasts.

Both of the coasts.

The Kerry-Edwards ticket won more votes than any other Democratic ticket in the history of the nation, and Kos has been notably and visibly stingy in acknowledging that that was no accident.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

62. I just read all 900 comments there

Geez, kos should just hang it up with Kerry.
He's actually helping to enlist support for him, given the gist of the comments.
It is interesting the speculation that HeyJohn.org was the product of a Dem campaign hoping to drain Kerry's warchest. Kinda' tinfoil but whatever....
kos is a great website but Markos is often really not too swift.

[enough already]

67. So maybe ignoring him rather than fighting a Dem civil war could work?

Nah, silly idea.