I wouldn't put this past Rove

[Tom Rinaldo]

Want to talk conspiracy? It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Karl Rove has figured out that, with all of the netroots concern about E-voting, coupled with increased major media attention by people like Lou Dobbs to it, that Democrats might be discouraged into not making it a high priority to actually vote on Election Day, since "the fix is in". I am not disputing the valid concerns many DUers have about the documented security flaws in Diebold etc. machines, I am just exploring a new angle.

What are the Republicans most concerned about right now? They are worried that their normally most fervent base of support, the Christian Right, may not be motivated enough to give them the turn out they count on to win elections, because of the Foley scandal and other related examples of shoddy Republican morals among other things. They not only normally count on that base to turn out in large numbers, they count on that base to convince other less committed Republican voters to turn out in large numbers. Well this year they have trouble motivating that base to do the hard GOTV work Republicans were counting on.

So who, right now, is the Democratic Party's most fervent base of support? A good case can be made that it is.... Us. Democrats are counting on netroots and grassroots activists to be the spark plug for Democratic GOTV efforts. What could possibly discourage US from turning out in large numbers in November, or even more important, working our butts off to convince other Democratic voters to turn out in large numbers in November? We sure as hell are motivated to take over Congress and start all the needed investigations, with people like John Conyers in the lead. It would be pretty hard to convince a good Democrat to not walk out into a cyclone to vote out the Republicans this year, unless...

Unless you somehow can convince him or her that it won't make a damn bit of difference whether or not he or she bothers to actually vote. Unless you can convince him or her that the election has already been decided and it makes no difference whatsoever what he, she, or ten of their best friends and neighbors actually do on election day. Go ahead, sleep late, watch some videos, get drunk, get stoned, forget where your polling station is and don't bother to look it up, because it really doesn't matter anyway if you go there because; The Fix Is In.

Has it occurred to anyone else that it might be in Republican's interest, in more ways than one, to now "leak" several stories about how supremely confident they are of victory this Election Day?

[acmavm]

1. I would imagine that dems are smarter than to not go vote because of

something like that.

At least I would certainly hope so.

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. Me too, but "not voting" is often not a conscious intent

If that were the case, if those who do not vote never had any intention of voting, there would not BE Get Out The Vote Efforts. It's not like most non voters actually don't know when it's election day, and most "non-voters" are not defiant non voters. For one reason or another they "don't get around to it". That is exactly why all political campaigns expend so much effort reaching out to voters thought to be sympathetic to their candidate by phone or through door knocking, to stress how important it is that they go out and vote on election day. Those phone calls get made until a half hour before the polls close.

So extrapolate from there. Not only do Democrats always need more of their voters to actually go out of the house and vote on election day, they always need more of their activist base to make those get out the vote phone calls, and to offer to drive those people to the polls whose car wouldn't start that morning etc. In recent elections Republicans have excelled at such efforts, and Democrats need a massive effort like that this time to overcome the effects of big Republican money and gerrymandering of Districts if we are to win enough races (decisively some would say) to retake Congress.

[acmavm]

5. Interesting. The only non-voters I've ever known turned out to be people

who didn't have a clue about what makes this country work, who were too irresponsible to do their duty, and were the escapist/lazy type of person. In fact, my ex was the biggest political moron I've ever met. If people talked about politics he's say 'there ya go, trying to solve all the world's problems'. Little did he realize (until I made that very clear to him) that people like him were one of the world's biggest problems.

[Tom Rinaldo]

7. To be honest, I'm less concerned about voters than Get Out The Voters

Face it, for most of us it isn't fun work, you have to be highly motivated AND disciplined to do more than a little of it. It is very tempitng to say "You can put me down for a two hour shift next Monday" instead of "I'll be in the office Monday, Thursday, and Saturday".

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Feelings of helplessness are the playthings of the Devil.

Yes, indeed, if we all stay home the Puggies won't even need Diebold.

Therefore the only rational course of action is to vote, to get all like-minded people to vote, to do everything in our power to make it hard for them to steal the election via poll-watching, maybe doing our own exit polling, challenging anything that looks funny, and--if we still "lose," be prepared to take to the streets.

You fight learned helplessness by having a plan of action.

[stillcool]

4. I do not believe it makes a difference...

what votes are cast. There are not many who expect a glitch-free election. The primary's have provided the perception that these malfunctions occur randomly....and as Ohio has shown, there is no remedy for an un-proveable, manipulated election. Regardless of my fears I will vote, and encourage others to vote...it is the least I can do.

[frogcycle]

8. you're right but...

IF the turnout is huge, IF the exit polls across the country show overwhelming numbers, then WHEN the phony results come in, MAYBE, just MAYBE, given the previous clear evidencs that has just been ignored, it will constitute a "preponderance of evidencs" that cannot be ignored.

So casting your vote might not mean it actually gets counted, but it contributes to the "body of evidence"


Also, if they are using software algorithms to just flip every so many votes, they would likely try to aim for "just enough" to flip the toital without being too obvious. So the greateer the actual margin, the less likely their pre-set percentage is to be successful. And if they are using an algorithm that senses the trend and adjusts how many to flip on the fly, it could easily cause exposure if the real margin is large enough.

[stillcool]

9. it's a scary thought...

this up-coming election. The only thing I feel certain about is the uncertainty.

[badgerpup]

6. The 'Fix' may be in...but what was that saying about mice and men?

There's a lot of stuff happening in the D.C. right now which I'm willing to put real money on was NOT in KKKarl's little playbook...
and things look like they are escalating.

Bush isn't called 'Bubble Boy' (among other things :evilgrin: ) for nothing...and there has been a severe disconnect between Washington, D.C. and the rest of the country* for a long time now...

Oh, nothin's gonna happen or Don't worry, everything will be alright don't work for beans when it comes to preventing the shit from hitting the fan.
There's no guaranteeing that the 'Fix' is going to STAY fixed, is what I'm trying to say.

* Those of us who are not able to contribute large amounts of money or significant favors/goodies/perks to their campaigns.

[Tom Rinaldo]

10. My other point is...

That this "conspiracy theory" is at least as compelling as any that assumes that Republicans have so thoroughly rigged elections that they now would be publically smug about inevitable victory.

Bottom line, all roads lead to GOTV! Whatever your degree of concern or lack of concern about potentially rigged elections, one fact remains the same. We need to make sure that we work hard to get as many Democratic voters to the polls as possible because, in order of importance:

1) That is how we win elections

2) If results show Republicans doing better than expected, that is a big part of how we will demonstrate how inplausible that would be, by having folks all over the nation all knowing other folks who normally don't vote in mid year elections, or who normally don't vote for Democrats, who all went out of their way to vote Democratic this time.

FOCUS ON GOTV!