If you can't vote for your Dem Rep/Senator b/c of this torture vote...

[SDDEM06]

So you live in the district of a Representative who voted for torture, or in a state whose senator voted to enable BushCo to disappear people (that's me on both counts) and can't stomach voting for these people because of their votes. What do we do?

Imagine instead you are voting for Barbara Boxer, Russ Feingold, Charles Rangel or John Conyers. Because when you vote for that DINO and the Democrats take back the majority, you are giving these Senators and Representatives the power. You are giving them a louder voice. You are giving them the chairmanships of the committees, the ability to set the agenda (so crap like this never even gets introduced) and the right to investigate, subpoena and punish the crooks running the country today. When I vote for Stephanie Herseth I am voting to give Dennis Kucinich a bigger microphone. When a Floridian votes for Bill Nelson they are voting to put Pat Leahy in charge of the Judiciary Committee, as well as getting rid of the Chairman tag in front of Warner, Stevens, Inhofe and Chambliss.

If you can't bring yourself to cast a ballot for your Democratic candidate, please consider that (at least indirectly) you are voting for the Congressional Democrats you most admire.

[BOSSHOG]

1. My congressman (a Democrat) voted for the damn bill

But come 7 November I will vote for every democrat on the ballot including him. The possibility of overcoming such nonsense depends on it.

[AX10]

2. Parlimentary thinking!

Don't vote for the individual, vote for the party.

I feel for those who have to vote for these Dems. I don't have to, fortunatly. I am voting for Ned Lamont.

[SDDEM06]

4. I like Parliament...

Can you imagine if Shrub had to submit himself to questions from Congress for 15 minutes every week?

[AX10]

6. I know. It's the superior system of government.

[anakie]

14. 15 mins every week?

in Australia the Prime Minister has question time for 1 hr a day four days a week while parliament is in session. Can you imagine how Bush would react to a situation like that. Total melt down.

[merci_me]

3. EXCELLENT!!!

the chairmanships have us in a strangle hold and that allows these dumbass issues come to a vote!!

We need them, no matter who the (D) is we have to hold our noses to vote for. We can worry about the Bush agenda when we have the chairmanships. Without that, he's king.

[abluelady]

5. I Hear You, But

I can't help wondering why the Dems like Boxer, Feingold, etc., don't have the power now to enforce their own party votes appropriately. Am curious, why you think if/when the Dems get power the DINO's will do better.

[skids]

8. I think he/she explained that quite well.

They will have the chairmanships. They will control what legislation goes to the floor in the first place (= no more poison pill bills.) They will be able to subpoena people (= more Republicans kicked out of office for scandals.) They will have the speakership (= no more sneaky delays of votes while a few straggling Rs get bribed into changing their votes.)

I'd be appalled that more DUers do not realize the immense amount of power that is up for grabs here, if it weren't for the fact that so many American citizens cannot even name the 3 branches of government.

[LynneSin]

10. The power is NOT the floor vote - it's the committees

Imagine Bush nominating a controversial judge. If that happened today we'd be all in an uproar calling our senators to filibuster - it would be a massive campaign.

Now imagine that same scenario but with Patrick Leahy as the chair and 10 senators who have consistantly voted with the filibusters and against activist judges. These will pretty much be the same people who ran that committee back in 2001-2 when over ten activist judges never saw a floor vote because our democrats stopped them right there in committee.

I would really love to go back to that scenario. There are no members of the 'Gang of 14' on the Senate Judiciary committee and I highly doubt that Patrick Leahy would put one on there either. In fact, when we lost a seat in the Judiciary it was John Kerry who gave it up. I'm sure Leahy would offer it back to him first if we get the majority.

And as much as Biden pisses me off some days I think the guy rocks on that Judicary committee!

[abluelady]

21. So You're Saying

The floor votes don't matter as long as we have the chairmanships and supboena power. I hadn't understood that. Believe me I am voting for the Dems but what you say sure makes me feel like it will be worthwhile. Thanks.

[LynneSin]

9. They won't and even I know that

But first, I would rather have a party where people are not forced to vote strict partyline or else. Of course with this administration that's a big challenge.

But I would rather be fighting with those 'DINO' in congress than fighting a republican. Because even 'DINO' are still likely to support us on many other issues AND they will help get those committees in the hands of senators and representatives who will do good.

I had Rick Santorum as my senator for 8 years. I wrote him a letter to support a bill (he didn't) and all he sent me was fundraising letters. At least Tom Carper has replied to all of my emails and letters with some response even if it's the answer I don't want. I'd rather have 1000 Tom Carpers representing me than one Rick Santorum

[abluelady]

22. I Hear You

I have all Repugs and they though they don't send me fundraising letters, they also don't answer my letters and/or phone calls with anything more than a form letter telling me to go to their website.
I have Senator Macaca!

[SDDEM06]

11. Because they won't be put in this position...

These bills will never see the light of day in the House. They'll be stuck in the purgatory where all the bills proposed by Democrats have been for the past 12 years. Rather than voting on a torture bill six weeks before the midterms, Congress would be voting on a minimum wage increase and improved health care coverage. Rather than a proposal to privatize Social Security the Congress would be considering proposals to strengthen the program. So these DINOs will never be put in a position to vote on a bankruptcy bill that is a gift to the credit card industry or a prescription drug plan that is a big wet kiss for BigRx.

I also believe people like Stephanie Herseth will find their voice and resolve when they are part of a majority party rather then being shunted to the side in the minority.

It is also much easier for the Majority Leadership to crack the whip and keep the caucus in line - just look how effective DeLay etc have been. Granted, they have used tactics that (I hope) no Democrat would use, but it is easier to work with a majority rather than a minority.

And finally, in two years if these DINOs have not changed their stripes we can challenge them in a primary. But in the meantime, let's work from a position of strength rather than weakness. Let's get those majorities and then work to bolster the party while we have an advantage rather than eating our own while we are at a huge disadvantage. And let's put the "check" back in "check and balances" and start to reclaim our country. If we don't do it this year we may never have the chance again.

[LynneSin]

7. I'd like to think I'm voting for Barbara Boxer and Patrick Leahy

Two of my favorites in the Senate (I'm still peeved at Feingold for voting for Ashcroft!!)

[livvy]

12. Thank you. I needed that.

I planned to vote for Stabenow, anyway, because it's just that important, but this will make it a bit easier.

[PassingFair]

15. I'll vote for Debbie, too, livvy.

But I swear to you, when I see her,
I'm going to spit right in her face.

And you know I am a reasonable, loving
person with a family, who loves her friends
and her country. But I will call Stabenow
out on this.

I surely will.

[tblue]

23. It's because you are a resonable person who loves your

your family, friends and country that you'd spit on her. I can think of no better reason than that.

[ScreamingMeemie]

38. You're a better woman than me,dear friend. I can't do it anymore.

Not after this. I can't condone it, nor paint it in anyway that makes it different than what it was... approving torture. Every Dem gets my vote except for Ms. Stabenow this year. I can't continue to condone this. :(

[watercolors]

13. I'll give it thought

right now I am so pissed at Bill Nelson I can't think straight!!

[SDDEM06]

18. Envision...

Senator Katherine Harris.

Easier to vote for Nelson now? :)

[vickitulsa]

16. Inhofe is a dirty word in my mouth --

and I have been having a hard time even imagining how any Dem (or decent person) could in good conscience check his name on the screen.

I really like your tactic for gaining instant perspective in the voting booth! Best argument I've heard yet for demonstrating we recognize that the bigger picture is truly more important.

Bigger Picture -- Long Run -- Perspective & Perspicuity

That's what can get us past the block.

Thanks for giving me a way to talk to friends, too. :)

K&R

[SDDEM06]

17. Happy to help

That is what DU is for...

:)

We have to hang together or we shall certainly hang separately.

[Hippo_Tron]

19. Bob Corker would probably be doing the torture himself if he could

So I'll suck it up and vote for Ford.

[blondeatlast]

20. With this vote, the terrorists have won. We've become them.

As I hang my head in shame, shaking it sadly, I must agree with you.

We simply cannot expect the Republicans to ive us back our country.

This is the darkest day I've known.

[fuzzyball]

29. Do not turn the other cheek, go for an eye for an eye and a tooth for a

tooth. No matter how nice you treat the terrorists, when
they capture you, your hands will be tied behind your
back and they will cut your throat slowly without any
anesthesia. That is exactly how they treated Nick Berg,
and other captives.

[semillama]

39. erm...what's your point in regards to this thread?

seems like you're coming out of right field with that comment...

[pat_k]

24. Here's what I cling to. . .

. . .The Democratic members of Congress still believe in democracy.

Yes. They have their heads trapped in the beltway sphincter. Yes, they invoke bizarro-world rationalizations do the cowardly thing. . .

BUT, at the end of the day, they still believe in Democracy. We have a shot at breaking through. They are anti-fascists (ineffective anti-fascists, but anti-fascists nonetheless).

The Republican party has become the fascist party. Our chances of getting through to them are virtually nil. (Of Course, we have to hammer them anyway so they can't pretend we don't exist). Republicans believe their small faction has an inherent right to rule; to impose their "righteous" agenda in direct violation of the manifest will of the people.

Of course, PRIMARIES are a WHOLE different ball game. We must find, and run, strong candidates -- candidates who are Effective Anti-Fascists!

[Eric J in MN]

27. Yes. Vote your heart in the primary,

...vote your head in the general election.

[femmedem]

25. Also, if you can bring yourself to vote for them

but not to donate or volunteer, why not send a check to a Dem who voted against the bill? And then send a copy of the check to your own Rep/Senator, with a note explaining why it didn't go to them.

[ticapnews]

28. This thread is full of great ideas!

Fortunately my Congressman voted against this crap. Maine's other Congressman, Mike Michaud, voted for it. The next time I get an email asking for a donation I'll be sure to let him know why no check is coming.

Likewise, people need to send donations/volunteer for candidates running against the Republican slime who voted for this bill.

[Eric J in MN]

26. I agree. Vote for the party.

You don't have to donate to any candidates you don't like, but at least help the party by voting for a (disappointing) Democrat.

[Reaction]

30. Better the slow slide into fascism

than the quick one? I don't intend to make light of your comment as I am engaged in the same struggle. This two party system blows.

[Eric J in MN]

31. Yes, given a choice between those two things,

a slow or a quick slide into fascism, I would pick a slow slide into fascism.

I hope I live to see another Democratic White House, and the less horrible things are by then, the better. With a Democratic White House, we can push things towards liberty.

[Reaction]

32. But it seems like a Dem filibuster

would have slowed the slide as opposed to 80% of them voting for this bill that can only be seen as furthering fascism. We're talking about the writ of habeus corpus here - a democratic notion enacted in 1215. And don't forget that the so-called 'war on terror' has no end. Is the logic that they vote for it now, get elected as a result, repeal it and then somehow convince people that the 'war on terror' they've capitalized upon was really a sham? That takes alot of faith.

[Eric J in MN]

33. I'm optimistic that the Supreme Court will...

...restore habeas corpus with regard to people arrested in the US.

I don't know if the Supreme Court will also restore habeas corpus regarding people arrested/captured abroad, but I hope so.

The bill can't be repealed legislatively in the next two years, because Bush would veto.

[FredStembottom]

34. First, we vote in.....

Then, we clean out!

[farmboxer]

35. I will vote straight Democrat because..........

we must get rid of the Republican Right Wing Nuts, if we don't, America is gone! If Dems get control of Congress, then we can change things, plus, it will send a message for anyone who voted for torture. We must use logic. We must not cut off our noses to spite our faces!

[LynneSin]

36. Somebody is going to have to win that election

I find it easier to fight bad democrats that republicans any day of the week.

[barbtries]

37. an excellent post

go Democrats

[KalicoKitty]

40. Sen. Stabenow voted for the bill.....

But, I will vote for her so as not to support Michigan Sheriff Mike Bouchard!!!! I am very disappointed that she cast her vote that way, but without a doubt, Bouchard supports torture, as well.

:-(