Evan Bayh (D- IN) Response to my Torture Email !

[dapper]

Dear Mr. DAP : (Note, Name Changed to Protect the Innocient)



Thank you for contacting me regarding the Bush Administration's recent draft amendment to the War Crimes Act. I appreciate your thoughts and understand your concerns.

As you know, this amendment (Section 2441 of Title 18 U.S. Code) would retroactively protect political appointees and CIA personnel from possible criminal charges for authorizing any humiliating and degrading treatment of detainees. The proposed legislation amends Article 3 of the Geneva Convention, which includes provisions that prohibit US officials from inflicting violence to life and person, taking of hostages, outrages upon personal dignity, and the passing of sentences and the carrying out of executions without previous judgment pronounced by a regularly constituted court.

As a proud member of the Senate Armed Services Committee and the Senate Committee on Intelligence, I believe that we need to draw the line bright and clear between permissible interrogation techniques and abuse. We need to acquire actionable intelligence against committed terrorists, but must always stand for freedom, honor, and democracy. I believe very strongly that our cause is morally superior to our adversaries', both the terrorists we fight and those who now seek to undo efforts to stabilize Iraq . Gratuitous torture undermines our moral clarity and does not gain us reliable, actionable intelligence.



You may be interested to know that I supported Senator John McCain's amendment to the FY2006 Department of Defense Appropriations Bill. The amendment, which successfully passed the Senate, states that no person in the custody of or in a Department of Defense facility shall be subjected to any treatment or technique of interrogation not authorized by and listed in the United States Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation. I believe this language gives us the necessary balance between moral leadership and information needed to defeat those wishing to do us harm.



Again, thank you for contacting me. I hope that the information I have provided is helpful. My website, http://bayh.senate.gov , can provide additional details about legislation and state projects, and you can also sign up to receive my monthly e ‑newsletter, The Bayh Bulletin, by clicking on the link at the top of my homepage. I value your input and hope you will continue to keep me informed of the issues important to you.



Office of Senator Evan Bayh
[phone]
Russell 463
Washington, D.C. 20510

[Der Blaue Engel]

1. "Gratuitous torture undermines our moral clarity..."

Oh, it's just that gratuitous kind that's the problem. Silly me.

[Totally Committed]

25. Very, very well said!

I find NO TORTURE acceptable -- especially done in my name, or my country's name. It is UNACCEPTABLE. Period.

WTF, Bayh?????????

TC

[niallmac]

2. Does the language of the field manual contradict the Geneva

Conventions or the rules of Habeas Corpus? I don't know.

[spanone]

9. I find it odd that he didn't mention Geneva Conventions

and how it compares with the army maunal. After all, that's what this is about. If we didn't have to answer to the world, we'd be plucking eyeballs.

[dapper]

13. Bingo

That's what confused me. I am responding to him, I'm still working on it but I'm going to add something to the affect "what takes precedence"? Both are a bit evasive on the definition of torture.

Dap

[niallmac]

19. I'd say that's about it. nm

[Supersedeas]

24. he didn't mention the signing statement either

[INdemo]

3. Senator Bayh is a Republican lite.

[skipos]

7. Why do 48% of IN Republicans and 78% of Democrats approve

of the job he is doing?
http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollTrack.aspx?g=a285d761-f796-4231-a64e-c963257492e4&x=873,2

[INdemo]

23. I wrote to him and Lugar about net neutrality

Guess which Senator I got a response from?..Lugar
I dont know about the 78%, but as a Senator he has voted with the Republicans on most issues.It is kinda hard to figure which way he will vote on this torutre issue,but he does agree with McCain so it appears he is leaning toward a yes vote..

[PVnRT]

4. Ain't nothing like a Bayh form letter

At least Lugar sometimes will send you something a little less milquetoast.

[katsy]

5. What is he saying?

"We need to acquire actionable intelligence against committed terrorists, but must always stand for freedom, honor, and democracy."

bushco* can say they stand for freedom blah blah and had to torture someone. That makes no freaking sense.

And what efforts to stabilize Iraq? It's a bloodbath!

So if bushco* sends a suspect to Libya or somewhere where torture is condoned it's okay because the torture didn't occur in a dod facility?

WTF is he saying.

I swear these bastards should be hooked up to a lie detector before opening their mouths.

Is he for torture? He should say YES.

If not, he should say he will filibuster.

All the rest is BS.

[Eric J in MN]

11. Evan Bayh seems to be leaning agaisnt the Torture Compromise bill...

...since he writes that interrogations should follow the Army Field Manual.

The Torture Compromise Bill would let Bush approve interrogation methods (tortures) not in the Army Field Manual.

Anyway, ask your Senators to vote against the Torture Compromise Bill:
http://contactcongress.blogspot.com/

[katsy]

18. Done - contacted congresscritters...

but I have a question:

Where does it say in the compromise bill that the Army Field Manual won't be amended?

[Eric J in MN]

20. The issue is that under the Torture Compromise Bill...

...Bush could authorize the CIA to use tactics not permitted in the Army Field Manual.

[katsy]

21. Thanks Eric. nt

[annabanana]

6. weasel words...

"draw the line bright and clear between permissible interrogation techniques and abuse"

Defining techniques beyond the fluid definitions of the Geneva Conventions erases all limits. The human imagination and capacity for inflicting pain is infinite. Minor adjustments in torture techniques will label the unthinkable "legal".

"Gratuitous torture"

There are not different categories of torture. There is torture and not torture.

He would permit it.

[Solly Mack]

8. The current bill and the one Bayh mentions in

the letter (Senator John McCain's amendment to the FY2006 Department of Defense Appropriations Bill.)
are NOT the same. And remember, Bush attached a signing statement to McCain's previous bill

Also, the Graham Amendment was attached to the previous McCain bill, and that amendment severely restricted / denied habeas corpus...the "compromise" amendment to the Graham amendment wasn't much better

http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/1115-12.htm

http://www.commondreams.org/news2005/1216-06.htm

http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/forumy/2005/11/levin-graham-amendment-and-due-process.php

http://talkleft.com/new_archives/013131.html

Fact is, Congress should have just held the guilty accountable from the get-go using the laws already on the books instead of coming up with all these new rewrites that gutted and eroded existing law.

[Eric J in MN]

10. His letter seems to be saying that the Torture Compromise Bill...

...is a mistake ("...I supported Senator John McCain's amendment to the FY2006 Department of Defense Appropriations Bill. The amendment, which successfully passed the Senate, states that no person in the custody of or in a Department of Defense facility shall be subjected to any treatment or technique of interrogation not authorized by and listed in the United States Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation. I believe this language gives us the necessary balance...") In other words, he's saying that the bill which already passed shouldn't be watered down.

I hope Evan Bayh's vote is consistent with this letter.

Anyway, tell your Senators that you're against the Torture Compromise Bill (if Evan Bayh is your Senator, tell him.)

[dapper]

12. After Re-reading it...

I was a bit confused by his statements. At first glance, I appreciated he letter but after re-reading it, I'm wondering if it was just bunk.

Dap

[Eric J in MN]

14. The Torture Compromise Bill will probably be voted on by Friday night.

And so we'll probably find out what the letter means soon.

Since Republicans have a majority, only a filibuster could stop the bill.

If it passes, I'd prefer if every Democrat votes against it.

ASK YOUR SENATORS TO VOTE AGAINST THE TORTURE COMPROMISE BILL:
http://contactcongress.blogspot.com

[Contrary1]

15. Sounds familiar...here's my email from him re: flag burning amendment:

Dear ______ :

Thank you for contacting me regarding a constitutional amendment to protect the American flag. I appreciate hearing your opinion on this matter.

As you may know, Senate Joint Resolution 12 was introduced in the Senate on April 14, 2005. This legislation would authorize Congress to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States . This is an important issue, and I understand how people have differences of opinion on it.

Thousands of veterans in Indiana and around the country have made the protection of the American flag their top priority. Out of respect for their unique sacrifices in service to our country and because it is the enduring symbol of our democracy, I support giving the flag special protection.

On June 27, 2006, I voted in support of S. J. Res. 12, which failed in the Senate by a vote of 66 to 34. Rest assured, I will keep your thoughts in mind should this matter be revisited during my term in Congress.

Whatever one's views on the merits of this issue, I strongly disagree with those who would use it as a wedge issue to divide Americans or to distract from progress on the other pressing issues facing our nation.

Again, thank you for contacting me. I hope the information I have provided is helpful. My website, http://bayh.senate.gov , can provide additional details about legislation and state projects and you can also sign up to receive my monthly e-newsletter, The Bayh Bulletin , by clicking on the link at the top of my homepage. I value your input and hope you will continue to keep me informed of the issues important to you.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2721926

[leesa]

16. Well, that says a lot of nothing. So is he for it or against it?

Bayh is such a joke.

[dapper]

17. I emailed him again.

I'll save the space here but after saying my peace, I ask that he vote against the bill.

Dap

[FrenchieCat]

22. That email response seems

Hard to decipher! Must be SenateEmailSpeak!

Which will be how hard it will be to decipher what America's stance is on torture if that bill passes!