Let's pass the peace pipe.

[madfloridian]

I have seen several people tonight in various forums here saying they were stunned at all the Clinton haters.

Could we please put a stop to those thoughts now? It is just not true.

Clinton did a magnificent job standing up to Wallace. It was absolutely therapeutic for him and for all of us who defended him here and locally for years and years. It is time he did it. It felt good. He did it beautifully.

I wish he had done it before. It was needed, and many of us here have doing it for ages.

I recently wrote two journal posts that were favorable to him. This one endeared me more to him than I had been in a while, because I saw another side I had not seen before. So I wrote about it fairly.

The DLC threatened Clinton with losing for not toeing the line. 1994

This journal post, I think, made the Greatest Page. It was heartfelt and sincere. Again, we have been doing this for years.

Yoo hoo, ABC Disney...read Clinton's own Patriot Act from 1996.

So it is just not fair for those of us who have reservations about some aspects of 08 not to get to talk about them. It is not fair to assume we are Clinton haters.

There was a poll posted here last night that really had no purpose other than to divide us. Why would there even be a choice between Dean and Clinton...as in "who do you like best"? It is impossible to answer that fairly. I like them in different ways.

Dean won't be running in 08, but I am totally supportive of his nationwide view of building the party. It has been in the hands of a few for far far too long. If he ever runs again, which he might later...there are many of us organized on the ground for him. But that is beside the point. I admire his courage, his bravery in sticking around when he lost and was so disparaged by his own party. He did not pout, he became chairman and has a huge vision for us.

I like Clinton other ways. I wish he had not used the Oval office the way he did, because we in this conservative area had to live among the anger...though so many of them are hypocrites and pharisees who talk righteously but say nothing. But it hurt. It gave them ammo. However he gave us good years as a nation.

Now to the bottom line for a lot of us. Many are afraid to say this, but hey...I am not known for that. Many of us feel it is time for someone else to be president, not a Clinton. It feels too much like a dynasty. Maybe we are wrong, but that is the honest truth. We have many great Democrats. I would vote for any of them. I would prefer that the Clintons assume other roles. I would vote for her of course, which will probably be the case.

They will always be party leaders in one way or the other.

Now I hope this did not portray me as a Clinton hater, as I most surely am not. But we can't talk about things here, things that need to be said without someone else calling names.

[lvx35]

1. I LOVE the Clintons.

Though I also don't support the dynastic stuff at all. Who wants to see poor Hillary dragged through the shit that this next president is going to have to deal with? Their legacy is already awesome, this next presidency is going to be high risk insanity and it will require a suitable person. Just cause I don't support a run doesn't mean I hate em. They ROCK.

[madfloridian]

7. The govt is such a huge mess, that I dread any Dem having to fix it

I can just imagine it would be a fight all the way, with blame on them and not Bush. It's a terrifying prospect.

[lvx35]

8. Yeah it is.

There's this cynical part of me that wants the Republicans to stay in power long enough for people to see everything crash, and have nobody else to blame...But its a hell of a cost to make them finally realize they are wrong.

[Straight Shooter]

2. Well said, madfloridian.

Dean and Clinton are to be admired for different qualities. Respect and caring for Clinton does not diminish the respect and caring we have for Dean, or vice versa.

What I love best about Clinton is that when he was President, I never thought about him or what he was doing from day to day. I slept well at night, and had hope in the day. He just didn't cross my mind unless I read an article about him, or saw him on television. As for the Monica thing, it merely made me roll my eyes.

I don't want another Clinton in the White House, or another Kennedy, or another bush -- god forbid!! Fortunately, in choosing a presidential candidate, Democrats have a much larger pool of talented, ethical, smart, competent politicians to choose from than Repubs do.

[madfloridian]

5. We had trust. You said it well.

:hi:

[Straight Shooter]

6. That's the word. And we had security.

:hi:

[snowbear]

3. I agree w/those who say STOP all Dem (including DLC) bashing till Nov 8th!

It is such a waste of time and effort to be bashing **** ANY **** Democratic candidate right now.

I keep pleading for the my fello' DUers to please.. drop it until after the election!

Regardless of whether our nominee is DLC, DNC, or D-cupped.. we need to STOP the bellyaching for now!

When I see Clinton haters on here, I tend to ignore them. If they've lived through the last 6 years of the asshole we have now and still have the gall to bash President Clinton, they aren't worthy of a response.

I only wish every thread that bashed him dropped off the board without response.. (dream on)

But since you brought up the DLC, I think we all need to stop harping about which candidates may or may not be affiliated and just get busy WINNING!!

Win back Congress now -- Sort out the DLC crap once we have a voice!

[madfloridian]

4. I was trying to make peace while still keeping some views I hold.

I think you made good points, but there are reservations by many.

I think I made it clear, or tried to do so. I hope this does not turn into a bash, when not meant to be so.

[calimary]

13. Not a bash of you, OR of Bill Clinton.

Not at all! I agree with you, and with your assessment of the Pox "news" interview. He WAS great. He DID say what needed to be said. He DID give his side of it and for that audience over there on the Dark Side it may have been the first time some of 'em EVER heard it from the horse's mouth instead of spun and processed and distorted and misrepresented. And it was About Fucking TIME!!!

In fact, I said so here - humbly submitted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2845972&mesg_id=2845972

Cheers!

[madfloridian]

14. Thanks for the link.

There is a site linked from there, and it must be busy? I will keep trying.

It was a beautiful thing to watch, it really was. Past time. :hi:

[madfloridian]

15. Excellent post.

Thanks for sharing.

http://www.worldnewstrust.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=217

[madfloridian]

9. Did I make clear to you I am not a "Clinton hater".

Nor do I hate" the DLC. I question its policies.

Just to be clear.

[snowbear]

10. Oh, btw MFloridian.. exactly what are we smoking in that pipe anyhoo?

http://eliteleague.co.uk/forum/images/smilies/lol!.gif

I mean.. you are from Florida.

You ain't passin us some of that "Gainesville Green" stuff in that peace pipe are ya?

[snowbear]

11. p.s.s.s.s.

~~~ Yup, you made it clear!! ~~~

[madfloridian]

12. Not sure....

what you are saying.

[wiley]

16. Here's the Problem

When you have Pat Robertson saying that Hillary Clinton running would motivate the Christian Right better than the devil while reading the same exact sentiments (usually in more nasty tones and outright attacks) it really makes you wonder :wtf:

This is not a private, Democrats and Progressives only group. Sometimes I think there are more ghosts, trolls, freepers, republican operatives, abusers of potential therapeutic venues to crap in, and staff for K street lobbyists here than there are of people actually interested in winning in 06.

I vividly remember the incredibly nasty things some Democrats said about Kucinich, Dean, Clark before, during and after the primaries and general elections. Wait - I know y'all have some heinous and unspeakable history that has to be heard about some other candidate - but hear me out. Republicans in Jersey, for example, are posing as dissatisfied Democrats and trolling the blogs and boards. It's an incredibly effective technique, because they know they will always find some Democrat who just has to turn their life into a crusade to have their burned soul broadcast to the world. Remember Sore Loserman? Guess they knew more about how to make us cut off our own noses than we did even back then.

If you want to trash a current candidate elected by votes to run in this November's elections, just come right out and say you heartily support what 6 years of Republican stupidity, corruption, warmongering, incompetence and malignant neglect have done to this country and people around the world who were just trying to mind their own business before getting a neo-con version of Jeffersonian Democracy (which means stealing from taxpayors and creating a caste system in the US) shoved up their arses. Same goes for trashing potential 08 candidates two months before a national election and two years and two months before another one.

Can we all just STFU for two months? Besides outright vote stealing, that's how Republicans win elections. They all spout the same lies, even if they want to kill each other. They pretend that they have independent voices but always fold at just the right moment. Like, What's your preferred form of torture? At the moment the Republican controlled Congress is trying to ram through legislation that will set this country back at least 100 years. It makes sense to be trashing Clinton and/or Clintons at this time.

We all know that Hillary is the reason that Kerry or Dean or Kucinich or Edwards is not currently President, right?

[madfloridian]

17. STFU?

That should be reserved for people who are being insulting.

The public has always read this forum. That is not anything new.

Why don't you ask that it be deleted if you think I am hurting the party? Be my guest.

If you think I am trashing, alert on it. Just don't tell me to STFU.

Check out my very public profile if you want to compare what I say to a troll.

[brentspeak]

18. You said as well as it can be said

:applause:

[madfloridian]

19. Then you need to notify the mods.

If you think I am hurting the party and the country, then alert on it.

I don't mind.

And perhaps we need to have rules and no one can do it.

I made my stance very clear. I will support whoever is the nominee in 08. But several someones around here were calling a lot of people "Clinton Haters."

This is a post in response to that. I am most certainly not a Clinton hater, never was. A lot of people with sincere reservations are not "Clinton Haters."

I was responding to that.

I am perfectly ok if you want to notify on this if you think I am out of line.

[brentspeak]

20. I was only commenting on the general content of his post

about disruptors on DU, on the need to band together for the elections, etc.

I wasn't following the dialogue between you and other posters on this thread, and wasn't commenting on you at all.

[madfloridian]

21. He was criticizing me for my post.

If you think he did a good job, and said it well, then that makes two of you.

I don't mind if you criticize. But he said people here should STFU until the election is over...or words to that effect.

I think I did not post anything deserving of that.

[brentspeak]

22. Well, I wasn't criticizing you for your post

I was vaguely aware there was something going on about alleged Clinton-bashing, but who said what I wasn't paying attention. It goes no deeper than that.

[wiley]

25. Maybe it was the subject line with the "Peacepipe" reference

After which you decided to describe how you love Clinton, of late, and have said so, recently, but you still need to remind us and remember those things you believe he did that hurt the Party. Thanks for the Peacepipe? I know this is really hard to believe, but if you create the post, be prepared to defend what you say. That's the way it works. The first part of your post says you think nice things about Clinton. The second says you are just not willing to forgive him.

Your post sounds so similar to all those people who blame Clinton for everything that has ever gone wrong in America. Why, they're trying to still blame Clinton for Bush's incompetence and stupidity. Clinton speaks out. Media covers it. Media wants to make Clinton the issue so they drag it out, just hoping they can rerun all of that other bogus BS they ran for years about the "bad" things he did.

I would think if you were going to compare the past and present, you might, say, compare the MANY outrageous things that Bush has down which he should be impeached for as opposed to what Bill did. We're talking about an era where Pukes think stealing, corruption, character assassination and outright lying are part of some ethical entitlement, and you just have to relate how personally disappointed and hard it has been for you.


"But he said people here should STFU until the election is over...or words to that effect."

You can't check the post and read exactly what I wrote? It's your original post. You started the thread.


Would you get real about the alerting the moderators thing, already? You have the right to post whatever brilliant or stoopid or creepily self-massaging and pat on the head yearning post you want. I have the right to say I wish you or anyone else would just STFU after explaining why I believe what I believe. I do, however, reserve the STFU for posts with content like, well, like your post.

I just think if you are going to present a strategy for peace, for example, you might think about what the other parties (like other people on DU, Democrats who recognize that Republicans used a frazzled moral indignation to beat down every Democrat and liberal they could) might want to see in such a peace agreement. They usually don't contain apostrophies that condemn anyone's behavoir.

[wiley]

23. Thank You!

[madfloridian]

24. You know what is needed?

If a post like this evokes such upset from you, you need to ask the mods if it is time to stop all speaking out until after the election.

What I posted was not bad at all. Oddly enough there is another one in this same forum in which someone else was glad he finally spoke out. The difference is I tried to explain how some feel about Hillary. The other post is getting lots of recommends and I am getting told I am being divisive.

I can't figure that out, can you?

There is nothing wrong with my post that I can see. I don't think it deserves criticism that I am hurting the party.

[wiley]

26. I just posted a response to your responses.

It pretty much explains why I believe people responded to your post as they did. Once again, what is this thing with the mods? Someone doesn't like your post and you think that they want everyone to stop "speaking out until after the election"? There is nothing wrong with your post that you can see. I know that I would want to hear such an evaluation from others who agreed with it. Evidentally, some people do think your post is not exactly helping matters.

If you take the time to reread my post you will see that I don't just single out you as the one who is going to bring down the Democratic Party, unless you fit the description of the different type of posters I detailed.

[wiley]

27. The post I wish you had made

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15004160/

[madfloridian]

28. Again, why did he wait so long to say it? Why?

9/11 happened 5 years ago! Why now.

I am very glad he did. But you know what, Wiley? When all the shouting is done, all the anger at me is still going on because I dared post my view...the other Democrats will still be doing the grunt work for the party just have they have done for all these years. Just as much as Clinton.

Clinton's initiative is wonderful. But it is not about the party, and it is about him. It will do a lot of good for people. I don't blame him for that. It is most likely about Hiilary 08, and I don't really fault him for that. She is his wife.

Why have we here at DU since 2002...and at Daily Kos since whenever (I can't remember when Markos started it) been defending him so greatly? And he just now defends himself? I checked my bookmarks from 2002 and 2003, and there is post after post about all Clinton did. But not a word from him.

There are others here saying effectively the same thing as I did.

So you wish I had posted about 9/11 being out in the open. But I didn't because a couple of other good Dems have been taken down a notch or two for bringing it up all along.

If the board is going to do the not criticizing thing, I am on board.
But I posted something sensible, not much different at all than others did...but they have nice clean posts on the Greatest Page.

I am out of this thread, tell the mods to delete it. I just don't care.