e-mail exchange with my freeper cousin

[electropop]

ME:
This morning I sat about 5 rows from DHS Secretary Mike Chertoff as he made the SBInet announcement. You'll see Bush's motorcades scream past on a weekly basis around here (usually snarling traffic in the process).

My Cousin:
Scream past....hmmm.... is there time to throw out rose pedals? I love that man.

ME:
Given what most people would be throwing, they have to move pretty fast.

My Cousin:
Do you really want to go there? I think the internet would run out of memory bites before I convinced you to look at the facts and come to your senses.

ME:
You would have to erase years of careful investigation and just plain watching the actual people on C-Span, and frankly, watching some of the corruption from the inside, filtering directly down from the White House.

My Cousin:
Because the careful investigation in the Clinton years that said the same thing about WMD's and the dangers of Sadam don't count?

And because the Whitehouse was squeaky clean during the Clinton years?


ME:
OK, I can't let that sit there.

(1) Clinton correctly identified and solved Saddam's WMD ambitions. That's why there were none when Bush made up his stories and went in.

(2) By comparison, the Clinton WH was squeaky clean. He didn't have his director of procurement arrested for taking bribes; he didn't have his VP's chief of staff indicted for committing a major crime against national security (outing the covert agent in charge of investigating Saddam's hypothetical WMDs). And when Clinton lied, nobody died.

I could present to you reams of evidence from hard sources (the perps themselves in many cases) showing what's going on. And you would never read them, because Rush and Ted Nugent spat on the truth and entertained you. But if you are brave, you could start with a few items. I invite you to cross-check them, because they are so mind-boggling they will be hard for you to believe at first.

(1) The August 6th Presidential Daily Brief, which Bush ignored and let 9/11 happen. http://onegoodmove.org/1gm/whitehouse.pdf
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020313-8.html - "So I don't know where he is. You know, I just don't spend that much time on him, Kelly, to be honest with you.">

(2) How did Bush take and hold power in the first place? This government report may clarify:
http://www.gao.gov/new.items/d05956.pdf#search=%22gao%20election%20report%22

Referring to the vapor-voting (electronic) machines that are now installed nearly everywhere, the report says "...numerous entities have raised concerns about their security and reliability, citing instances of weak security controls, system design flaws, inadequate system version control, inadequate security testing, incorrect system configuration, poor security management, and vague or incomplete voting system standards, among other issues. For example, studies found (1) some electronic voting systems did not encrypt cast ballots or system audit logs, and it was possible to alter both without being detected; (2) it was possible to alter the files that define how a ballot looks and works so that the votes for one candidate could be recorded for a different candidate; and (3) vendors installed uncertified versions of voting system software at the local level. It is important to note that many of the reported concerns were drawn from specific system makes and models or from a specific jurisdiction’s election, and that there is a lack of consensus among election officials and other experts on the pervasiveness of the concerns. Nevertheless, some of these concerns were reported to have caused local problems in federal elections—resulting in the loss or miscount of votes—and therefore merit attention."

(3) Bush came into office salivating at the prospect of invading Iraq, planting permanent bases all over the Middle East, and subduing the planet in a "Pax Americana." All he needed was a "catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor." . This paper includes these quotes and lays out the wild-eyed plans, which have now brought us to such a tragic and dangerous state in Iraq and the whole Middle East. The paper was written in 2000 by an organization founded by Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld. Amazingly, they still have the 'nads to publish it on their web site.
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

I have endless documentation of GOP malfeasance in recent years. I know most of it never gets on Fox or Rush, but it's out there and it's truly scary if you have the courage to read it. We're in big trouble.

[Whoa_Nelly]

1. Hope your cousin doesn't let a short attention span get in the way

of actually reading AND verifying the sources.

Good reply to your cousin! :thumbsup:

[ryanus]

2. "Do you really want to go there?"

In my experience, when people saying this to you, then you should go there.

[electropop]

4. Yes, I really, really want to go there!

:-)

[bumblebee1]

3. Talk about your cyber space slap down!!! n/t

[blue cat]

5. Great to see that you went there.

We have to stand up to them.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

6. Unfortunately for these kinds of people facts will never change

their mind. It's all about what they believe. But your attempt was very well done and I will certainly spend some time reading your cites.

[electropop]

8. More:

Him:
Ok, the Republican will end this and once again bring peace. We are a rational, only violent when needed, peace loving party.

Me:
Now you're talking like an Eisenhower Republican. You don't sound at all like the current crop. If those are your values, you need to come over to the other side.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. Really, the people in power now can be referred to as a lot of things

Conservative, however, is not one of them.

[BonnieJW]

7. I know this is your cousin,

but I would not be able to associate with someone like that. I have some cousins (a married couple) who fled communist Russia and came here. I have only met them twice, the latest was last month to celebrate my mother's 90th birthday. We were at my sister's one evening with friends and my cousin starts talking politics to me. She said she "hates Democrats" and repeated that phrase different ways four times. Can you imagine being in a social setting without knowing everyone's political persuasions, and letting loose with that??? Can you imagine further fleeing a communist dictatorship only to come here and support another one???

I rose to my feet and walked away. I would not engage in an argument at my sister's home during a social occassion, but even more I have no use for people like that. Argue? Discuss? Why even bother? People like that do not listen. They were at some other friends the following night and I avoided them completely. I will never speak to them unless I have to and then only what is necessary.

[SheilaT]

10. Speaking of Bush motorcades,

a young friend of mine was in DC last year when one of Bush's motorcades went by. Friend reports that an elderly black man watched the vehicles, then slowly lifted his hand and gave the departed parade the finger.

Wish I had that on video.

[electropop]

11. Heheh

Could have been me, 'cept for the age & race.