Chavez did it again!

[ProSense]

If this is such a heinous attack, why is Chavez allowed to bounce all around NY giving speeches to cheering audiences?

Chavez gives oil to Americans, calls Bush "devil" again
http://rawstory.com/news/2006/Chavez_gives_oil_to_Americans_calls_09212006.html

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/15575122.htm

After calling our President "the devil"-- Chavez was driven around Manhattan to Cooper Union Institue, where candidate Abraham Lincoln once gave one of his most celebrated addresses.

Snip...

But at some point, whether we like Bush or not, agree with Bush or not, think he has made mistakes or not--he is a twice elected leader of our country. He is our guy, whether we wish he was or not. Hugo Chavez is not an American. He does not give his own people the rights we have. For him to come here, and say what he said, and then say it again at an American university--is like if I came into your house and called your dad a jerk. He's your Dad. You may not like him, and you yourself may even call your Dad a jerk. But if someone else calls your Dad a jerk, those are fightiong words--and you would be prepared to put them in their place.

Patriotism may or may not include giving some degree of support to a sitting American President, as well as to the respect of his office. But it also holds a certain kind of territorialism that one feels about supporting and protecting one of their own. A liberal friend of mine told me today, "I don't like G.W.B. at all--but there is a certain place we should never descend to. I may not like the fact that he is my President--but he is MY president. I would never give my support to a foreign President who attacks him. I would probably tell him to go back to Venezuela."

There used to be a saying in this country, "America: Love it or leave it!" There used to be a time when we supported our President, and rallied behind our leaders. There was a time when we cared about what others saw of us as a unit. E Pluribus Unum. Now, we have no right to complain about our image around the world, when we can't even stick together, or strick up for our own guy, even if we don't like him or some of his policies. He is our guy! If Iran were to attack us, we would get behind him. If 9/11 happened again, we would get behind him. He is for better or worse OUR President. For Americans to applaud a foriegn dictator, who aligns himself with Iran and Cuba, and calls our President "Hitler" and the "Devil" and accuses America of peretuating "genocide"--would have once been considered as a step away from treason.

http://americaabroad.tpmcafe.com/blog/joseph_wood/2006/sep/21/convenient_patriotism_a_low_down_dirty_shame_in_ny

[thereismore]

1. Who is a twice elected leader of our country? Clinton? LOL, nt

[burythehatchet]

2. I'm glad Rangel made his statement of condemnation

Americans are very nationalistic. It would hurt Dems if noone made this statement from our side. ..my personal statement is that Chavez is exactly right. Notice nobody condemns the sentiment, just the fact that Chavez is saying this on US soil.

[RufusEarl]

6. Right, but the repugs will try and use this to get the base to the polls!

I agree Hugo, but this could be just the thing that gets the faithful up and to the polls.

[Vidar]

16. Good point. Viva Chavez!

[Upfront]

3. About Right

Sounds to me like Chavez has got it about right. Bush makes me sick at heart.

[endarkenment]

4. Chavez is not a dictator.

And last I heard, calling bush bad names does not constitute a deportable offense.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

5. Sorry if my dad was such a jerk that my neighbors kept

... setting my house on fire and I KNEW my dad was a jerk, I'd really have a hard time standing up to someone walking in the door and mentioning WHY my dad was a jerk. I'd have to IGNORE the JERK comment and concentrate on the bigger picture.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. Supposedly america is a free speech place, so Chavez is taking

advantage of the opportunity. What is this "our president" stuff? After all the crap that nitwit has done wrong it's refreshing to see somebody rhetorically kicking his ass, without firing one god damn bullet.

[SmokingJacket]

8. That's just a goofball argument.

That we should object to Chavez's remarks because Bush is "our president." Sorry, that holds no water for me. He should NEVER have become president, and I feel no loyalty to him personally.

I would preferred if Chavez had refrained from calling him the "devil" -- that was deliberately provocative and drew attention away from the rest of his speech, which made a lot of sense.

[Phredicles]

11. Plus, what is this "OUR president" crap?

He sure as hell isn't MY president!

Viva Hugo...

[kimmerspixelated]

9. Yes, But

your "friend's Dad" IS a jerk that basically killed 100K plus of people, for his own war! Our "leader" is not the average bad republican president, and although I think he is too stupid to be the devil, if the devil exists, I'm glad Chavez has said what he has said. Just think of all the people that will now read the book he suggested...or maybe he was just preaching to the chorus!

[LeighAnn]

10. Bush not elected

Not in 2000, not in 2004. In both cases the election was stolen.

Also, it's misplaced patriotism to support a corrupt leader merely because somebody called him names on his own turf. He deserved it, and our nation deserves the humiliation for letting this man stay in the White House instead of tossing him and Cheney out on their murderous asses.

[movonne]

12. It doesn't bother me it he calls bush a devil, I agree with him....

I really like when he said he could still smell the sulfur...in my mind he is the devil..

[ProSense]

13. Excellent question:

So, we've heard from Dems. Have many repugs chastised Chavez?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2190665&mesg_id=2190665

[kentuck]

14. perhaps we might ask?

Why is Bush so hated? Surely he should be loved by everyone?

[Peace Patriot]

15. And your point is? We're supposed to fear this uninformed drivel?

Smarten up. Smell the sulfur!

Ha-ha! But I'll be a little more explicit. Hugo Chavez is a the LEGITIMATELY ELECTED president of Venezuela, a hugely popular leader in South America, and speaks for billions when he ridicules Bush as "the devil" leaving a whaff of sulfur in his wake. He is also a very funny man, well read, very smart, and a leading figure in the huge leftist revolution that is occurring PEACEFULLY, through TRANSPARENT ELECTIONS, in Latin America. He is neither a militarist nor aggressive. But he IS brave to speak the truth about Bush.

The war profiteering corporate news monopolies in the US will use ANYTHING he says against him, so he might as well be blunt (and humorous), and they will also use anything they can to promote Karl Rove's pre-written post-election narrative for how a mass murderer, torturer, blatant lawbreaker, liar, cheat, thief and inarticulate puppet, whom 60% to 70% of the American people despise, could manage a "comeback victory" in November. What will never be mentioned is that his rightwing buds at Diebold and ES&S now control 80% of the nation's vote "counting," using TRADE SECRET, PROPRIETARY programming code, in the new electronic voting systems, with virtually no audit/recount controls.

You see the game? I hope you do. Hatred gays, hatred of brown immigrants, love of Arab heads exploding under our bombs, and INVENTION of a new "terra" threat in Iran--these are the post-election "explanations" for the Bushites' miraculous "comeback" in the fall. They are based on a proposed model of what rightwing think tanks would like Americans to become--hateful bigots, easy to manipulate with demagoguery. And, at the very least, they want progressive Americans (the majority) to believe that OTHER Americans have gone nuts and fascist, and that they themselves, with their progressive views, are now isolated and alone, with no power. And Rove drops these newsturds into the corporate newsstream along the way, to be used later to explain the "brilliant strategy" by which they kept control of Congress. It makes it all look real, like a real democracy. Chavez's remarks might be used to further this scam in some twisted way, who knows? But none of this is meant to CONVINCE anybody of anything. It's meant to demoralize and disempower the majority. And the corporate news monopolies (5 billionaire CEOs) SELECT political comment for propagation, to further this illusion.

I can't prove it, but I would guess that, if you could be inside the heads of 60% to 70% of the American people (maybe more) watching Hugo Chavez call Bush "the devil" who left a smell of sulfur at the UN podium, all of them--ALL OF THEM!--would be nodding in agreement, and many would be laughing and cheering him on. That's how big I think the divide is between president and people. Very big.

The American people are far more progressive, and far better informed, than anyone gives them credit for. And THAT I CAN prove. I've been following opinion polls on Bush for years, not just approval polls but also issue polls. And what the polls show is astounding--the vast majority of the American people--way up in the 60% to 70% range--disagree with EVERY major Bush policy, foreign and domestic. You name it. The Iraq war (56% disapproval way back in Feb. '03, before the invasion). Torture (63% disapprove of it "under any circumstances). Social Security. The deficit. Women's rights. Also, in 2004, people were flocking to the Democratic Party in big numbers to express their disapproval of Bush and Bush policy. The Democrats whipped the Republicans in new voter registration nearly 60/40, in 2004.

This fascist government and its lockstep rightwing news media are NOT trying to convince people of anything. They are trying to FOOL people about what the majority view is.

And when I see posts that seem to buy into this rightwing strategy, I have to say something--because I think it's so insidious. "Chavez did it again!" does buys into it. It seems to say that we should all shut up about the Bush Junta being evil because it's not polite--the media might blame it on the Democrats. But if the "media" don't have something to "blame on the Democrats," they will MAKE SOMETHING UP, or use something that Rove has made up. This OP also seems to say that because Chavez--a perfectly fine leader, from what I can see (and I DO know a lot about him)--has been demonized by the corporate news monopolies and Bush lapdogs, that we should BUY INTO that demonization by cringing when Chavez speaks the truth, and FEARING that that truth will be "blamed" on the Democrats.

I hope you see how they've got your head all twisted around. You are trying to satisfy standards SET BY THE CORPORATE NEWS MONOPOLIES of what it is "polite" to say, what our candidates can say, and what political discourse in this country is PERMISSABLE. Permitted by THEM. Permitted by those who are fucking us over.

Luckily, most people have learned to "read between the lines." And most Americans are amazingly immune to Bush/corporate propaganda. The only thing they haven't quite caught onto is the rigged electronic voting system--which has been kept so under their radar.

---------------------------------

Bust the Machines--Vote by Absentee Ballot this November!

If everybody does it--if everyone who despises the Bush Junta votes by Absentee Ballot--the reign of these diabolical machines is OVER--and with them, Bush, and with them, the corporate news monopoly establishment. Because, when we restore our right to vote, we are going to bust their corporate asses right into oblivion. (We have that right, as a sovereign people--to simply dismantle them.)