Mahmoud Ahmadinejad DOESN'T SEEM CRAZY

[rhiannon55]

Anderson Cooper is interviewing Mahmoud Ahmadinejad on CNN, and I'm amazed at how lucid the man seems to be. Anderson Cooper is a moron, however, smarmy and clueless.

Check it out. Am I crazy? Everyone says Ahmadinejad is crazy and dangerous, but I don't see it.

[The Straight Story]

1. Hitler probably seemed sane in his day too

If we are so willing to look deeper into bush, why not into other wackos of the day?

[rhiannon55]

4. I'm not saying he's a nice guy

Just that everything he is saying makes me think he's not running around trying to blow up the world. Are you watching the interview?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

9. Every speech I ever saw of Hitler's, and I watched quite a few

of them, he always came of as a mad dog.

[janx]

13. Have you ever seen Ahmadinejad give a speech in front

of his people?

Check it out.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

14. Well, where can I find one at?

Of course I am sure it is going to be different as he is playing to a differnet room so to speek. But do you have a link?

[janx]

18. No, sorry, I don't have a link.

But I've seen him wind up his people, and believe me, he is batshit crazy. He knows better than to appear crazy on CNN, of course. If you ever get a chance to watch him rile up the crowds, take advantage of it.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

21. I will search the net tomorrow and see what I can find. n/t

[mwb970]

87. If Ahmadinejad knows not to appear crazy...

...why doesn't Bush know enough not to appear stupid?

In recent interviews, Ahmadinejad has said things like "Did America attack two countries bordering Iran? Or did Iran attack two countries bordering America?" and (paraphrasing) "The UN cannot function properly because it is overwhelmingly dominated by America." Um, well, those things are true.

Meanwhile, at the UN, our Fearless Leader said, "Iraq is a beacon of democracy." Excuse me? Iraq is a chaotic, nightmarish hellhole. What does Bush imagine he is talking about?

Believe me, I would much rather it was our guy who sounded logical and stated historical facts, and their guy who spewed nutty, pie-in-the-sky inanities. Unfortunately, this week, that's not the way it was.


edit: typo

[Hippo_Tron]

68. Hitler's rhetoric wasn't taken seriously by most of Germany

Nobody, including the Jews, predicted that there would be anything close to death camps when Hitler was appointed in 1933. Hitler also never won a free election.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

74. Neither has our fearless leader. n/t

[razors edge]

12. hitler looked sane?

to whom, the other meth addicts?

[leftyladyfrommo]

46. Hitler was an incredible speaker. I just couldn't believe it

when I saw the films of him. What he was saying was completely crazy - but the way he said it brought people to their feet.

[Evergreen Emerald]

54. That is how we feel when Bush speaks

Yet 40% of the population (if you believe the polls) think he is great!

[mirabeau]

56. Yes....you are right....we should look deeper.

We should have looked deeper at Saddam as well, instead of just accepting everything we were told. If we had looked deeper we may have realized that, yes, he's a raving lunatic but he is contained and not a threat to us. Saddam was not motivated by Allah, he was motivated by greed. He had absolutely nothing to gain from attacking the U.S. He knew us well enough to know that if he dropped a bomb in our country, we would have retaliated in such a way that it would have wiped Iraq off the map. This administration has succeeded in "dumbing down" the public to a degree where even democrats accept things at face value without taking a deeper look.

Why are we acting like republicans who only see black and white - good and evil. We can examine the gray area. It seems that anyone who makes the slightest postitive remark regarding the Iranian president is immediately jumped on.

The original thread is "he doesn't look that crazy"...that person is NOT saying: I think I'm in love! They are saying, maybe he's not so dangerous, maybe he isn't such a big threat to us. Why can't we discuss and consider that.

It's not about liking him or not, or whether he's a nice guy or not. We need to examine him to determine if he is a true threat or just another boogeyman created by Bush to push his agenda. We need to look at EVERYTHING - including his positives.

We are in a war without end now, because we DIDN'T examine Saddam - we didn't look at the positives. The most effective lie is one that has truth in it. Bush said Saddam was evil. That was true. But it didn't mean that everything else he said was true. He fooled us once - let's not let him do it again.

[ellie]

73. Thank you.

I have been wanting to write this when I read posts by people who only see things in black and white.

[az chela]

2. bush and company are the ones saying he is crazy

[FogerRox]

25. Bush would know

LOL

[GainesT1958]

3. The man is a shrewd, calculating s.o.b......

Recall, he was one of the "students" who held our hostages inside the embassy for 444 days. He's apparently very well practiced at lying with a straight face.

He's very much like Dub....only a lot smarter.

We'd be wrong to invade Iran...but I wouldn't trust him with a ten-meter pole!

B-)

[msongs]

6. care to back up this claim - hostage holding student?

seems to me that claim was refuted.

Msongs
www.msongs.com/political-shirts.htm

[FogerRox]

26. care to back up this claim - hostage holding student?

seems to me that claim was refuted. I second the motion. Yawn..........

[RebelOne]

45. I'll third the motion. Been debunked many times. n/t

[blondeatlast]

50. I've never seen either a debunking or a validation of this. Could you

or someone else help here?

I'm not saying I believe one or the other, I just want to decide for myself and have yet to see evidence of either position.

Thank you.

[burythehatchet]

7. Why spread bullshit that has already been debunked?

If I wanted to hear that crap I'd listen to Hannity.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

15. Well so was Bill Clinton. That's what made him a good politician

In case you haven't noticed politics is war.

[fujiyama]

30. Clinton was indeed a brilliant politician

but he wasn't a raving antisemitic ass hole publically calling for the extermination of a nation.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

55. He also wasn't in charge of a country that is use to militancy

rule. Running a country in the middle east and running a country here are two different things.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

58. I presume you're not accusing Bill Clinton

of being one of the Iranian hostage takers? It would certainly make front page news if you could prove he was, though.

[Orangepeel]

65. that's probably the ONLY thing republicans didn't accuse him of!

:rofl:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

82. Your are correct, I am not.

Just making the point that nice guys don't make it big in politics, particularly in third world countries.

[karlrschneider]

27. That claim has been investigated and found wrong. Sorry I don't have

a link handy but I'm 99.999 percent sure. Someone will disabuse you of that wingnut claim though, I bet.

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. I've just spent half an hour looking

and the best thing I can come up with is that no more than three of the hostages, plus the iranians who perpetrated the invasion of a US Embassy (embassies are sovereign land by the way) say he wasn't involved. The three hostages say "they're not sure".

So, I'm left with the choice of believing those who were held captive, or those who were the perpetrators of that illegal action and now think their current president will help foster a world dominated by Islam.

Guess who I pick?

[LSK]

67. money and political ideology talks

Is it too hard that those kidnapped hold a grudge against Carter. It is not too hard to believe that Rove got to them.

[Cosmocat]

48. Bingo ...

That is just it ... You can see it in him ... Shrewd is EXACTLY the word I would choose ...

It just pains me to hear the media spead the propoganda of how he is "insane" ... It might seem like a little thing, but it is SO important to the agenda ... VERY hard to justify the drive to go to war against a country led by someone who is comptetent, vs a drove to go to war against a country led by someone summarily dismissed as being "insane" ...

[LSK]

66. it is not proven that he was one of the 1980 kidnappers

[dave502d]

5. That a front and yes he is crazy.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

8. Actually he is very articulate. I can see why Bush would not want

to debate him as Mahmoud would have him for lunch.

[greenman3610]

10. He's smart enough to use fanatical religion as a tool

He's smart enough to know that he's smarter than Bush.
He's got to be grateful that our government actions have
created the atmosphere that put him in power.
He's saying what all pre-nuclear states say, "Our program
is only for peaceful nuclear power" (at least, he's following the Israeli model..)

My attitude is, we were doing a great job with inspections in Iraq,
why not do it in Iran? He claims transparency, put him to the test.
Talk to the guy. The sooner all these big shot terror masters
have to go to work filling potholes, meeting payrolls, and
getting elected, the sooner they can join the community
with the rest of us.

[razors edge]

16. were we announcing our intentions during the Manhattan proj?

North korea has a batshit crazy leader with nukes and he ain't hit us yet, why? maybe the people with no nukes in the ME are tired of people with them using them to threaten and steal their shit.

if my neighbor used a gun to steal my stuff and the cops wouldn't stop it, i'd probly get a gun too.

[Donna Zen]

11. Anyone want to live in Iran?

Not me.

I doubt he is crazy or stupid...I just don't believe what he believes.

I'm not ignoring the fact that bush is a heartless fuck, I just don't think that Ahmadinejad would have ever signed the Constitution. ditto bush.

Trying to decide who is better when the choice is between two anti-democratic assholes leaves only "none of the above."

[question everything]

36. Well said. It never cease to amaze me how DUers admire

fanatical figures: Nassrallah, Arafat, Ahmedinijad, and other anti-democratic figures like Castro and Chavez, both with military coup behind them. All, just because they hate the US and Israel.

And I dread the moment that too many posts here would be picked by the freepers to show the voters that "liberal hate America."

[RangerSmith]

43. It really is hard to watch

especially since you know these people will continue to trash this country regardless of who the President is.

Especially Chavez and Ahmedinijad. The only tunes that will change if we get a Dem in 08 will be the members here. These guys will become idiots becasue their rheotirc about the US will never ever stop.

[blondeatlast]

51. I've always admired your screen name, and you live and breathe it.

Thanks for the cool head.

:patriot:

[question everything]

61. Thank you!

These days, one really risks being called names and being subjected to derision, even stalking, for holding an opinion that does not follow the herd of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend," or accepting violence because it is aimed at us.

[distantearlywarning]

42. Exactly. Very well said.

Something that we are no better than the other side at is remembering that the enemy of our enemy is not necessarily our friend. It always amazes me to hear DUers defend guys like Ahmadinejad. If he were running the U.S. as a Republican, we'd hate him more than *. I know I would - I'm a woman who likes to be treated like a human being. Bush isn't yet allowed to stick me in a burka or lawfully murder my gay friends. Yet, thank goodness, although God knows he and his fundie friends want to. But somehow because Ahmadinejad runs some other country and causes trouble for *, he's a wonderful person? Hardly. *shakes head in amazement* A choice between Ahmadinejad and Bush is a choice between a**hole #1 and a**hole #2. I wish we could throw both of them into the sea.

[Donna Zen]

83. Sometimes the false choice

The forums sometimes get caught up in offering what seems a false choice. I doubt that OP believes that we should don the burka or arrest people for playing rock and roll, but unfortunately posts often come off that way. It happens all the time online. It may be the nature of the beast, and prehaps we need to take more care before we type. Thanks for the kudo.

[kineneb]

77. some of my relatives have chosen to stay there

they probably could have emigrated to another country, but Iran is their home. My grandmother is back there now, and so is my aunt, along with numerous other family members.

[Mz Pip]

17. So what?

He doesn't "look" crazy. Big fucking deal.

THis doesn't make him a good guy.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[ButterflyBlood]

19. Oh geez, he fucking SAID THE HOLOCAUST NEVER HAPPENED

He's crazy, regardless of if he can sound sane at some points.

[AJH032]

20. seems pretty crazy to me n/t

[gulliver]

22. If he didn't have Dubya in the U.S. Whitehouse, Ahmadinejad ...

... would be nothing. Because we have Dubya in the Whitehouse, even hustlers and showboaters like Ahmadinejad and Chavez have an easy time winning over world opinion. U.S. credibility is so low under Junior, that all of our enemies look better.

[sandnsea]

23. He presents very well

But in some circumstances, so does Bush.

[savemefromdumbya]

24. just because the GOP want you to think that every Muslim is stupid

does everyone say he is crazy?

[rhiannon55]

28. Most of the people in this thread seem to think he is

I don't know how representative this sample is, though.

And I'm not saying he isn't crazy; I don't know. I just get cynical really quick when BushCo starts banging the drums for war.

It seems like dejá vu all over again.

[ButterflyBlood]

38. Maybe we think that because he says the Holocaust didn't happen

Just a possibility.

[Dutch]

41. But he denies the holocaust ever so lucidly...

:sarcasm:

[savemefromdumbya]

59. I guess he has to say that?

to keep him popular with his followers? I could tell him personally that there was a holocaust in Germany during world war 2.

[ButterflyBlood]

71. And you can personally tell a freeper there was no WMDs in Iraq

But that doesn't mean they'd believe it.

If you really honestly believe he has no problem with Jews whatsoever and really does believe the Holocaust happened (which I have a tough time buying) but only says it to cater to a base of anti-Semetic bigots, that hardly improves my opinion of him.

[savemefromdumbya]

75. no I'm not really a fan of him but

like Bush he does have to cater to his followers

[question everything]

29. East and West

Our newsmen: Mike Wallace, Bryan Williams, and now, apparently, Anderson Cooper, are just being polite. They ask their questions and do not follow up, do not press him for the way he treats dissension, his comments about Jews and Israel. Ahmedinijad and his people are not stupid. They know what the questions will be and have their innocent replies ready. "Who, me?"

Do you really think that Ahmedinijad will give you an honest answer? A truthful one? Why should he? Just as the late Arafat used to say one thing for his Western audience and entirely different script for the people back home.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

33. Ah, QE, have you ever seen how polite the mainstream news

interviewers are to Bush administration officials (and how polite they were to Reagan administration officials)?. Ted Koppel's scolding of "Brownie" for his handling of Katrina was unusual for being critical.

Reporters these days are tame circus animals putting on meaningless shows for the public.

[question everything]

37. Yes, Katrina was a nice shiny moment in American journalism

and that brief moment quickly dimmed, back to things as usual.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TSIAS]

32. We've created him

By empowering Iran by the Invasion of Iraq, we've elevated one of the adversaries of Iraq (Iran's leader).

[samsingh]

34. he's very evil, just like bush

too bad we can't let them fight it out on an island.

[rollin74]

39. I think he's a dangerous nut...

Just because I strongly dislike Ahmadinejad doesn't somehow mean that I support dubya. I despise them both!
As bad as the current administration in the U.S. is, Iran is NOT the place for a progressive minded person and I would never want to live under that regime.

[Disturbed]

40. He is not crazy or stupid.

He is a politician catering to his base. I don't ascribe to his views at all but calling him crazy &/or stupid is not productive.

[blondeatlast]

53. Precisely, and welcome to DU.

You raise the question we should all be asking ourselves: Do we want to live, or even visit, Iran?

Simle as that.

:toast:

Glad you found us!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

64. I'd love to visit Iran.

:shrug:

Who wouldn't?

[kineneb]

78. it is a place of austere beauty

and rugged landscapes. I lived in Tehran for a year, and awoke to the sun shining on the Elborz Mountains every day. I got to swim in the Caspian Sea and visit Mt. Damavad.

[blondeatlast]

80. See my reply to bornagainhooligan.

I'm not completely ignorant on th subject.

My SIL wouldn't go back there now if she was paid to do so.

[blondeatlast]

79. My sister in law was born there and still has relatives there.

She, for one of many, actually.

Just so you know I'm not completely ignorant of the political climate there, far from it. My SIL is a very smart woman, btw.

[pampango]

44. Both Ahmadinejad and Chavez gave speeches that seem quite popular here.

One speech was given in a reasoned, intelligent manner, while the other was a more populist, name-calling attack on Bush. One thing the two leaders have in common is their anti-Bush stances.

I get the impression if each of the speakers had adopted the other's speaking style or they both had used either style, they would have been equally popular here. I know that there have been many here who have cautioned about against "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" strategy.

I bring this up because our goal here is to get Democrats elected, not, at least not primarily, to oppose all things Bush or to support all persons foreign or domestic who oppose Bush. Supporting foreign leaders simply because they are anti-Bush does not seem to me to be a good strategy, at least if you are a Democratic candidate. Judging foreign leaders based on what they do for their own populations, not just against Bush, seems a better idea. Chavez seems to be, on balance, a positive force for his country while I don't see that Ahmadinejad is.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[WildEyedLiberal]

62. Wow, can you back up that claim?

"Just like most every Israeli leader has said of the Muslim population"

So you're claiming that "most every Israeli leader" has called for the genocide of all Muslims? Or the total destruction of a Muslim country/countries? Please provide evidence to back that up. I'd really like to see quotes from "most every Israeli leader" supporting your claim.

[PaDem]

49. Anyone who thinks the guy is crazy is clueless...........

he is many things perhaps, but crazy is not one of them.

[rhiannon55]

60. I really don't think he's as crazy as Bush is

He may be an unelected dictator, unlike Bush...wait--

Nevermind.

:crazy:

[JerseygirlCT]

52. I turned it off, disgusted with him

I don't know about crazy, but 100% bigot would cover it.

[kentuck]

57. You are not supposed to form those types of opinions on your own..

Your government will tell you who to trust and who not to trust. You should know that Chavez and Ahmedinejad are our enemies. Because you were told so. He may not look crazy but looks can be deceiving. Just look at our President - he looks crazy. :)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

63. Standard Operating Procedure.

Every foreign leader that is our "enemy" is "crazy."

Armchair warriors are also armchair psychologists as well.

Try asking them what particularly mental illness Ahmadinejad suffers from and they get all irrational. I think it might be some mild form of delusional paranoia.

[NYCGirl]

69. What mental illness?

Hutton Gibson disease.

[PassingFair]

70. Use caution.

Posting pictures similar to this:


Let's play chimpy's game and demonize world leaders.
It's a short ride from there to demonizing the entire
population, riding our bandwagon in and PUTTING A BOOT
UP THEIR ASS! YAHOOOOOO!

But lets cry foul when they mockingly do the same in
UN speeches that fling the "evil" crap back at us, to
the point of wafting away "sulfur fumes" LOL.


The mental illness Ahmadinedjad suffers from is called
"I want to destroy Israel-itis".
And observing that ingrained antisemitism is now a
nukable offense will get your posts deleted without
warning.

But racism is alive and well in America, Maccaca!
And it's just politics as usual in the south.

[ButterflyBlood]

72. He doesn't neccesarily have a mental illness

He's just a bigoted asshole. Period.

[Poll_Blind]

76. Ahmadinejad does represent a threat to our American Empire but...

...the least of our concerns should be about his views on the Holocaust which have been ignorantly used to stereotype and dismiss this very complex, intelligent, highly-manipulative politician. Labeling Ahmadinejad as "crazy" is something I think he invites. Because such labeling typically excludes further, deeper, inquiries into the motives that he or his Russian and Chinese friends maintain.

  If we dismiss Ahmadinejad as "crazy" or "an anti-Semitic kook" we do so at our own peril. He is a thoughtful, calculating, articulate individual, unlike our own president, and his ability to manipulate us based on these stereotypes should be something worth considering even more dangerous than whatever superficial labels we apply.

PB

[scarletwoman]

84. I try to be "a threat to our American Empire" in my own small ways.

I believe it is a noble endeavor to resist the Empire in whatever ways one can.

Therefore, I'm not inclined to condemn others who also endeavor to resist the Empire. The goal is unequivocally noble, imho -- the main subject of honest debate ought to be over the various means and methods employed in this resistance.

Iran is not my enemy. Ahmadinejad, as the duly elected leader of Iran, is not my enemy. I most certainly do not agree with his fundamentalist and authoritarian philosophy, but neither do I accept any facile demonization of him as "crazy". He is a product of his country's culture and history. He is intelligent, educated and well-spoken. He is also a wily politician who knows how to position himself to appeal to his electorate. Whether he is able to follow through on his campaign promises of improved economic conditions for the people of Iran is a matter for the Iranians to judge.

I cannot fault him for his determination to strengthen his country's economic and energy development situation, and regional geo-political position.

I refuse to accept the bushco/MSM/fascist bogeyman frame. The Iranian people are the inheritors of an ancient civilization -- the history of Persia goes back millennia, much older than any European countries extant today. We ought to be reaching out to them with respect and a willingness to open our minds and learn from them -- instead of slurring their leader and dismissing their valid concerns.

sw

[AtomicKitten]

81. I thought the same thing.

Good thing Anderson is cute because his interview of Ahmadinejad was of the caliber of Entertainment Tonight, at best.

[John Gauger]

85. Yeah I know

check out what I just posted: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2839888.

[scarletwoman]

86. For some reason, your link doesn't work

I finally found your post anyway -- and I'll probably post a reply -- but meanwhile I'm re-posting your link in way that I hope will actually work:

"Here's my take on Chavez's statements"

sw