I want to see ONE EXAMPLE where DU'ers like Ahmadineejad

[dionysus]

cause you people "stirring shit" are throwing up one big-assed strawman that basically accuses some DUers of "supporting the terrsts *hic*" and I think it's bullshit! I have never seen anyone say he is a good guy, yet people who think "well the guy is an ass but he's not the Hitler *co implies" are in your minds doing so.

[AX10]

1. I agree. Ahmadineejad is a bastard, but he is not a Hitler...

at least yet. He is our enemy for sure.
If anyone has the capacity to become another Hiter, it would be Osama.

[dionysus]

clearly he is an asshole

bad thing is in interviews he seems like a smart asshole, unlike *. does that mean we need another war? i think not

[oncall247]

45. He IS a smart asshole. He has the US pegged pretty good and Bush too.

The difference between him and Bush is that Bush is a dumb asshole.

[aquart]

6. Does it ever seem to you that he's Iran's George W. Bush?

He often seems that way to me. I keep waiting for a sensible statement that isn't designed to whip up hysteria and placate an extremist base.

But I'm sure that's because I only have broadcast TV news, and, if I actually read that UN statement, it will be full of good sense.

[AX10]

13. In many ways they are the same.

That's what Bill Maher said.

[CarlVK]

37. Not really.

Has the Iranian president:

* Invaded and occupied two countries in the last 6 years

* Killed over 100k innocent Iraqis

* Conspired with a tissue of lies to misinterpret or fabricate intel to make a case to commit aggressive war on a nation or nations that have never wronged Iran

* Broken the Nuremburg Accords with pleasure

* Completely shit on the laws and Constitution of his own nation


Well?

[aquart]

44. I know. It's a lot to live up to.

But he's young. At his age, George had hardly killed anybody.

[CarlVK]

50. Personally, I hope he doesn't try to catch up with Bush's record

the world has seen enough of this bullshit.

[razors edge]

55. lottsa of frogs though,

and almost all loved up and turned into a horny toad.

[krispos42]

92. i think it's the techniques used

BushCo uses fear of Iran/Iraq/Al-Qaeda to keep getting Fundie Repubs elected (including himself). Ahmadinajahd was elected on fear of BushCo. Both used fear of the other to cement their policies and browbeat their opponents. And either or both of them might be crazy enough to think the military solution is a good idea.

Actually, watching Brian Williams interviewing Ahmahdinajahd on "Countdown" tonight, it sure looks like the Iranian president is thoughful and intelligent, with a good grasp of language and concepts. Sadly, I believe our Dear Leader is outclassed in those areas.

[fuzzyball]

25. Osama is barely alive nursing his kidneys in some hell hole in Pakistan

Ahmedinejad has OTOH BILLIONS of petro-dollars at his
disposal, Iran's formidable military, Ayatollah's blessings
to enforce islamic governance known as "sharia". So in reality
Ahmedinejad is 647,934 times more dangerous than Osama.

[stepnw1f]

2. Yup... Funny Isn't It?

A couple are the same folks who accused DUers of being anti-semites right after Israel invaded Lebanon.

[dionysus]

4. i gotted tagged that many times, just for not wanting ANYONE

to get killed. it's really pissing me off. this is supposed to be a group of friends here

[Smithson]

3. Maybe Iran topics should go to I/P thread.

I think it's an important discussion and it is not being permitted here.

[dionysus]

7. no, the I/P dungeon is to shunt this all off to the side because

it inflames so many people. it needs to be out front and in the open, but thay all turn into poo-slinging bullshit flame wars

[niyad]

18. welcome to DU---what makes you think discussion of iran is not

permitted here?

[Smithson]

30. Sorry for not seeing your post.

It isn't Iran that I think is not permitted to be discussed here.

But, it appears that people want to shut down any useful discussion about Iran and maybe some of it has to do with Israel.

It is Israel that I think is not permitted to be discussed here.

Having post after post only being permitted to say, "I like him. "I don't like him."

A poll could do that.

[Imagevision]

5. Is Bush the "good guy"...

[dionysus]

8. naw, they're both bad guys, but i'd not advocate canada

invading us cause chimpy mccokespoon is a bad guy, just common sense

[bonito]

12. No just the dumb ass puppet n/t

[Dr.Phool]

35. I've never seen anyone here say the chimp is a good guy either!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[mike_c]

9. well, I *respect* him, but truthfully I have no basis to *like* him...

...nor to dislike him. He is the president of Iran, a national leader, and the U.S. must deal with him. He is justifably angry at the effects of U.S. foreign policy in Iran and throughout the middle east. He certainly doesn't like us, if we consider ourselves representative of America. That's just the way it is-- it doesn't prevent him from governing effectively, to the extent that the president of Iran actually governs, nor does it prevent the rest of the world from having dialogs with him as the Iranian head of state.

It is isn't a matter of liking or disliking-- it's a matter of respect and acknowledgement.

on edit-- Iraq, Iran, spelling!

[Sam Odom]

11. What about him is worthy of "respect" ?

[mike_c]

15. well, how about for starters, that he was the choice of the Iranians....

They evidently respect him, or at least a majority of them do. I'm not so superior that I'm willing to simply discount their affirmation of his leadership simply because he's not the kind of leader I would want. He is the Iranian head of state. He has the authority to speak for the cause of peace, or to encourage beligerence. I find that worthy of quite a bit of respect.

[Sam Odom]

16. The same way the russian people

had a choice during the USSR.

[Smithson]

17. Total BS.

Rafsanjani was expected to win and Ahmadinejab's victory was a surprise.

[Sam Odom]

19. Like Bush's victory was a surprise ?

[Smithson]

23. So you admit that Iran has free elections like the US.

It's a start.

[Sam Odom]

26. My point

The Islamic religious leaders in Iran get their guy 'elected' by hook or crook.

sorta like the US Supreme Court

[Smithson]

34. So you were mistaken when you said like the USSR.

You admit the election are like those in the US.

I think I have already agreed with this.

Do you not take 'yes' for an answer?

[Sam Odom]

36. No

The old USSR gave the people a choice, a choice of men approved by the Party. In Iran it's the Clerics not the Party.

[Smithson]

42. A country based on a religion? Intolerable!

The US even supports some of them.

Why don't you read his speech?

Are you afraid?

[mike_c]

22. so you want a cold war or worse with everyone you disagree with...?

:shrug:

[Sam Odom]

33. i've not mention going to "war" or starting an "invasion"

in any thread dealing with Iran, PERIOD

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[geek tragedy]

57. No, he was hand picked by the Mullahs, who refused

to let most candidates names appear on the ballot.

They took the names of the reformists off the ballots.

[Irreverend IX]

93. Don't let your mind get so open your brain falls out.

Look: we are better people than the brainwashed Iranian masses who selected Ahmadinejad. Got it? We are progressives working to bring progressive leaders to power. He is a reactionary religious psychopath. Do you respect Benito Mussolini? How about Pol Pot? Those guys also rode a wave of popular support to power. They were worthy of scorn and destruction, not respect, in life, and the same is true of any anti-rational public figure. Progressives _are_ superior in every way to divinely-lobotomized mobs who vote theocrats into power. This wimpy "no one's more right or wrong than anyone else" bullshit makes me sick.

[mike_c]

99. sorry-- I prefer an open mind to one clogged with dogma....

It's much easier to change your mind in response to changing circumstances when you keep your perspectives open.

[cali]

96. Excuse me?

How do you know that the average Iranian respects him, or that a majority do? In short, you don't. His 'election' is even less valid than bushco's. As for his authority to speak for the cause of peace, it's a shame he hasn't used it. He makes one inflamatory remark after another.

Of course, I'm not even remotely surprised to find that you see him as worthy of quite a bit of respect. Just because bush is awful, and Ahmadinejad needles him, is hardly enough for him to garner my respect, or the respect of any other person who actually employs critical thinking.

[mike_c]

101. snide personal slurs seem to be the hallmark...

...of folks who have little to add to this discussion other than their own sense of cultural outrage.

[dionysus]

24. what about ppls claim that a group of DUer LIKE him?

why not address that point?

[Smithson]

29. I'm in high school now. ;)

The posters worried about anyone LIKING Ahmadinejad are still in junior high.

To quote * "Who cares what they think?"

I'm not signing anybody's loyalty oath.

[mike_c]

95. I think it's a silly premise....

What's to like? The man or his policies? I doubt that ANY DUers know the man, so none have any basis for liking him personally, or for disliking him, for that matter. Anyone who does either without knowing him is behaving irrationally IMO. As for his policies, I suppose there might be some who could like him, but they'd be pretty rare on the ground in this country. An islamic theocrat? Not very likable from that perspective, but again, no one who doesn't chaff under the mullah's rule has much basis to dislike him either except for their own delusions of cultural superiority. The people whose opinions count are Iranians living in Iran, for the most part.

[Name removed]

58. Deleted message

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[CarlVK]

10. How many countries has Iran invaded and occupied

in the last 200 years?

[nolabels]

91. The only invade and occupy when the subjugation to economic slavery......

doesn't work. Fifty plus years elements of the U.S. oligarch have been effing around the people of Iran and then the fools wonder why there animosity

[Zapatero]

14. Ahmadineejad is a Right Wing

religious nut, just like GW. I don't like either.

[CarlVK]

21. Right. but he's IRAN'S.

I fail to see why I should care.

[dionysus]

20. just like I expected, there is no example of where DUers "like"

Ahmadineejad.

So can we all put the strawman to bed finally?

[eleny]

27. thanks, d. you hit the nail on the head

[Sam Odom]

31. ever heard of subtle racism ?

There were many examples of subtle 'Ahmadineejad-liking' in the "HOLY Sh*t Ahmadineejad!" thread. I wasn't the only one here to see it. Some posters were orgasmic!

If you didn't sense it then I guess we should just move on.

[CarlVK]

38. What race has Ahmadinejad defamed, specifically?

And your sources please. Thanks.

[Sam Odom]

41. reread my post

[CarlVK]

47. I did. You didnt say what specific race the Iranian pres had defamed.

Would you like to take another whack at it?

[geek tragedy]

56. Holocaust denial is per se anti-semitism. eom

[CarlVK]

59. Holocaust denial is putrid, agreed. But the Jews arent a race.

Nazis taught that Jews are a race. I do not agree with Nazis.

[geek tragedy]

61. Racism, bigotry, whatever. Ahmadinejad fits the bill.

And there are so-called progressives who respect him and refuse to even say they dislike him.

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

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[geek tragedy]

70. Read it and WEEP. Please stop propagandizing for this pig.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=124x146467#146489

All quotes taken from the IRANIAN STATE NEWS AGENCY (so no wanker can dissemble about Neocon/MSM/corporate propaganda)

"A number of world scholars and journalists have expressed support for Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's remarks on the Holocaust.

The president last month said that the Holocaust was a "myth" fabricated by the West and Europe.

Israel Shamir, a leading Russian-Israeli intellectual and journalist, wrote to say he admired the stance of the Iranian president with regard to the Holocaust, Mehr News Agency reported.

In a letter expressing support for President Ahmadinejad's view, he lauded the Iranian nation and leadership as "dignified" while blasting the Israeli regime as "bloodthirsty killers."
Shamir visited Iran in 1973 and 1974. His varied assignments as as a freelance writer has brought him to Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia during the last stages of the war in South East Asia.

While in Moscow in 1989-1993, he reported for the Israeli daily `Haaretz' but was sacked for publishing an article calling for the Palestinians refugees to be allowed to return and rebuild their ruined villages.

They have made a myth of the Holocaust and because of their view they have opposed `revisionists' on the event, Shamir noted in his letter.

Another scholar, German in origin, Dr Fredrick Toben, in a separate letter called the Holocaust a "lie" and described the event as a "legend."
An Australian citizen, Fredrick, has also edited a revisionist journal called `Truth Missions' which was later renamed Adelaide Institute newsletter.

He said he has personally visited Auschwitz, burrowed himself under the ruins of the alleged gas chamber, but was unable to find the four holes in the roof which were supposedly used to throw in gas pellets.

He was found guilty of "denying the Holocaust" by a German court in 1999 in Berlin.

Ahmad Rami, a former Moroccan officer, in a letter also announced his full support for the remarks made by Iranian President Ahmadinejad on the Holocaust, calling it a "big lie."
Living in exile in Sweden as a political dissident, he criticized the information monopoly of the Zionists in Sweden and launched `Radio Islam' there aimed at spreading information about Zionism, Jewish racism and the so-called Holocaust.

In a letter to Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, German lawyer Horst Mehler denied the Holocaust, saying that it was aimed to damage the German people.

"Mr Ahmadinejad has helped the revisionists. The Holocaust has never happened and is considered the biggest lie throughout history.

The Germans should fight the fabricated story of the Holocaust to protect their country," said Mehler in his letter.

Many historians have been forced to keep silent and many of them have been jailed for telling the truth (denying the Holocaust), he noted in the letter.

Mehler courageously denied the Holocaust at the opening of his trial in the Berlin State Court.

"It is a lie that we systematically murdered six million Jews," he said in the court.

Prosecutors warned the defendant he faced further charges if he continued with such statements since a law in Germany punishes anybody denying the Holocaust.

"There are still questions... maybe in your so-called Holocaust more than six million Jews were massacred (during World War II), so why do you not allow people to undertake new research?" he asked."

"Holocaust is a fabricated myth of the Zionists in a bid to push forth their evil intentions, said a senior cleric here on Friday.

"Assumed massacre of six million Jews in Germany after imposing hard labor against them in concentration camps, known as Holocaust, is a sheer historic lie," said Supreme Leader's representative in Fars Province and Friday Prayer leader of Shiraz Ayatollah Mohyeddin Ha'eri Shirazi in an address to large groups of Friday prayers worshipers."

Ahmadinejad referred to more than five million Palestinians who have become homeless over the past 60 years and urged the need to stop the Zionist regime's genocide in the occupied lands.
The president voiced Iran's opposition to bloodshed and killing people irrespective of their being Muslims, Jews, Christians or followers of any other religion and asked, "We are curious to know why out of dozens of millions of victims of the World War II, just the loss of lives of the six million people whose genocide has not yet been verified is of importance.

OPEN YOUR FUCKING EYES.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

77. Deleted message

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[geek tragedy]

84. Carl won't be answering your post, since he rightfully

has been tombstoned.

[Name removed]

89. Deleted message

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[dionysus]

43. but you won't link to an example?

what are you trying to say? racism? huh?

[CarlVK]

48. If he does, let me know. I can't seem to get an answer out of him.

[dionysus]

51. me neither

n/t

[IndianaGreen]

28. The same people that wanted war with Iraq are now doing the same with Iran

The neocons and the Israel Lobby are working full-time to whip up the hatred and war fever, just as they did with Iraq.

Let's not repeat the same mistake by listening to their foolishness.

They shot their wad with Iraq, and we won't support another reckless military adventure in Iran or elsewhere!

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

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[IndianaGreen]

40. Their influence is limited to elected officials and opinion makers

The Israel Lobby no more speaks for the very diverse Jewish community than James Dobson's Focus on the Family speaks for all Christians.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[IndianaGreen]

53. The issue before us is: do we wish on Iran what we brought to Iraq?

The unequivocal answer is a resounding NO!

[CarlVK]

54. Great point!

Thank you for being a voice of reason in the current defeaning roar of the eye-rolling anti-Ahmadinejad chorus at DU.

[geek tragedy]

62. He's a Holocaust denier. He's an Iranian David Irving or Nick Griffin.

Last time I checked, far right nutters like that deserved scorn.

[IndianaGreen]

63. Is that reason to bomb his country?

That's what the neocons and the Israel Lobby want us to do, do to Iran what we did to Iraq.

You will find more Holocaust deniers in Saudi Arabia that you would in Iran. Why don't you call for war on Bush's friends? I am sure Bin Laden would love to see the Saudi royals bombed by the US.

[geek tragedy]

65. Take that straw man and burn it already. I DO NOT FAVOR AN ATTACK

ON IRAN.

But, I'm nauseated by people who refuse to condemn a nasty, right-wing bigot like Ahmadinejad just because he's anti-Bush.

It reveals an absolute lack of true moral reasoning, but that in place people have a reductive "if Bush, evil, if anti-Bush, can't be that bad" reptilian logic.

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[geek tragedy]

72. There is nothing "Neocon propaganda" about Ahmadinejad's

Holocaust denial and religious rightwing nuttery.

They can all be documented on Iran's State Run News Agency.

[IndianaGreen]

69. I follow Mao's dictum

We must oppose what the enemy proposes, and support what the enemy opposes.

[geek tragedy]

73. Well, I'm not a Stalinist or Maoist, I'm a Democrat and a progressive.

So, I can't follow that reptilian, authoritarian maxim.

[IndianaGreen]

88. It is a good principle, one we should have followed in 2000

We should have done what the Mexicans are doing today in rejecting the results of their stolen election.

[AJH032]

90. I can assure you

the Iranian President does not support you, or any of us, simply because we oppose Bush.

[IndianaGreen]

97. That's not the issue. The issue is that Bush should be talking to Iran

not doing his fundamentalist Christian trick of lumping into the Satanic camp anyone that displeases his holy presence.

Ahmadinejad was not the one that has butchered tens of thousand Iraqi and Afghan civilians in a holy crusade to spread his faith across the world, as Bush has!

[AJH032]

102. Well, you said...

that you follow the saying "we must oppose what the enemy proposes, and support what the enemy opposes," which implies that you think we should support Ahmadinejad simply because we have a common opposition (George W). All I'm saying is that I assure you he does not feel the same way about American liberals.

[cali]

100. I can't think of a more

sickening or morally blind instruction. Congratulations.

[CarlVK]

66. That's a lie. See post #64

Please don't use fantasy in place of fact.

[geek tragedy]

75. You've just been PWN3D for making such an ignorant comment.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2836421&mesg_id=2836770

Next time do some reading before opening your mouth in defense of bigotry.

[WildEyedLiberal]

39. "Like"? Probably not openly. "Make excuses for"? Plenty

I can think of at least two DUers off the top of my head who were furiously making excuses for Ahmednijad's evil in the other thread you are clearly referencing.

[dionysus]

46. then show us what it is!!! sheesh!!!!!!

[WildEyedLiberal]

71. I can't call out other posters, that's against the rules

It's in the thread you are obviously referring to, and they're quite easy to spot.

Edit: one of them is no longer a DUer, so I guess calling him out is no longer against the rules. The mods apparently agreed with me that apologizing for Ahmedinijad is not something DU wants to promote.

[Cameron27]

87. Thank you

:applause:

[CarlVK]

49. What "Ahmadinejad evil"?

christ, some of your folks are going off the deep end with the accusations. How about some FACTS and SPECIFICS to back up all this alarmaist hypberbole?

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[WildEyedLiberal]

79. Pathetic, isn't it?

So let's see, Ahmedinejad is a right-wing extremist who loathes Jews, denies the Holocaust, promotes radical Islamic terrorism, but he hates Bush, so he must be a hero.

I don't get what fucking Bush has to do with anything. He is irrelevant to the fact that Ahmedinejad is a bad man. Not everything revolves around Bush. Jesus.

[geek tragedy]

82. They pretend that he doesn't say all those things. Kind of like he

pretends that whether the Holocaust happened has yet to be proven.

[geek tragedy]

78. His AMPLY DOCUMENTED Holocaust denial, which only FOOLS

and LIARS and IDIOTS dispute:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2836421&mesg_id=2836770

[WildEyedLiberal]

81. You forgot TROLLS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=user_profiles&u_id=194573

[geek tragedy]

83. Oh snap. I normally don't talk to the dead. eom

[Name removed]

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[nealmhughes]

80. I dunno, he sort of like the James Buchanan of Iranian politics:

not very powerful per se, and sorta wishywashy, afraid to offend too badly one side or the other...

He is highly educated and I am not sure how much jingoism one can stand, but consider all the anti-Persian and anti-Arab garbage the West throws out now, "clash of civilizations" and all that rot...

Iran is "surrounded" by Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq and Turkey is NATO... the Kurds are the Persians' cousins and he treats them like crap. He allows his govt. to persecute the Bahais and there have been public hangings of two gay teens.

I don't know how powerful he is, or if he is just a ribbon cutter. I feel that given his age and the antipathy that Iran still feels towards the West over the Shah/SAVAK years, he has a lot to be bitter about, but it is hard to agree to a bunch of old men in black dresses and turbans setting as "Supreme Council" as being truly representative of the bulk of the Iranian people... but what do I know from Iran?

I honestly don't know enough about "official" Iranian vs. "unofficial" ayatollah pronouncements to make much of a judgement about the president.

[Punkingal]

86. I don't know much about him truthfully....

But I certainly dislike his calling for the annihilation of Israel. On the other hand, I saw his interview with Brian Williams this evening on Hardball, and he is articulate and poised, not something we can say about our fearless leader.

I find it hard to believe that it wouldn't be worthwhile to have a dialogue with him, instead of just saying he is too evil to be dealt with. I can't see how that accomplishes anything for the greater good of the world. We don't like him, so let's just go over there and kill a bunch of Iranians, like we have the Iraquis. It's just sick, and I don't give a shit who flames me.

[Guaranteed]

94. It's just two idiots fighting.

That's what this is.

[IndianaGreen]

98. The difference is that Bush is the mass murderer of the two

and he is our Hitler, the one we must depose by all means available.

[Moderator]

103. Locking

This has turned into a flame war

:spank: