Ahmadineejad is NOT a 'good guy' and some here are foolish

[Sam Odom]

n thinking because he is anti-Bushco then he must be a friend of ours

[blue cat]

1. I agree

We must never lose site of that.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. True. The enemy of your enemy is not necessarily your friend.

[oncall247]

74. There are no "good guys." We should not delude ourselves that we

are the "good guys" either. Good and bad lurk everywhere. There is only truth. No matter who speaks the truth, the truth stands and we cannot or should not ignore it. There are lies also. And we cannot or should not ignore them either. Until we are willing to listen to the interests and needs of our so-called enemies, we will remain at war with ourselves and our "enemies." The history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict proves this.

[AntiFascist]

87. Especially when they are playing right into their enemy's hand n/t

[rockymountaindem]

3. Indeed

Why people would cling to Ahmadinejad makes no sense to me.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

17. Why people cling to shrub makes no sense either. n/t

[rockymountaindem]

19. It's not like we have to pick one or the other

I can be opposed to both of them for different reasons. The black-and-white thinking on DU really goes overboard sometimes.

[Pirate Smile]

4. Of course. That would be unbelievable stupid.

edit to add - I bet you couldn't find anybody calling him a "good guy". Did anyone actually do that? I would be surprised.

edit to add again. I hope I didn't type too soon.

[Selatius]

5. He isn't; I'm hoping the Iranians will overthrow their own gov't one day

But that won't happen as long as the US threatens them with war.

[mike_c]

6. Ahmadineejad is no more a "bad guy" than Bush or three-fourths...

...of the other national leaders. Ahmadineejad is a product of his society and the pressures placed on Iraq, including pressures from U.S. foreign policy, Israeli threats, and the overarching Palestinian situation in the middle east. Ahmadineejad is a symptom, not a cause.

[Flabbergasted]

15. Well Said....But would you replace Iraq with Iran in your reply?

[mike_c]

75. oops, too late to edit-- it's typing habituation....

Thanks for catching the typo, anyway.

[bdamomma]

83. that is a quite an honest mistake, Iraq change the "q" to "n"

to the next country this sick regime decides to attack, sickening isn't it???

[El Supremo]

16. He's a demagogue.

He stirs up hatred.

[mike_c]

23. Bush is trying to foment a generation war....

How does that differ from Ahmadineejad "stirring up hatred?"-- hatred is a necessary component of Bush's propaganda recipe. By that measure America's head of state is no better than Iran's head of state.

[CarlVK]

60. And now for some FACTS

He is a populist in Iran, and was ELECTED to improve the economy. Nuclear energy is a main plank of his economic reform.

[Zynx]

69. The same could be said of any radical movement that causes great

harm.

[El Supremo]

7. Some people hate our present government so much...

that they think all our opponents are good guys. I wouldn't trust Castro or Chavez either.

[bdamomma]

84. well then we should not TRUST the Pakistani's or the Chinese either

[tridim]

8. He's smarter than Bush, that doesn't mean I think he's a good guy

Are you sure DU'ers have actually said that?

[eleny]

35. this is a carry over from another thread

to answer your question - nobody called him a good guy. we tried to point that out to him but he blathered on. and now started this thread.

[JustFiveMoreMinutes]

9. Madmen and Bulldogs

They're recognized for who they are.

It's just a shame they can both out-debate the 'good guy leader'.

[BootinUp]

10. All I will say is he is a better public speaker than *

[Sam Odom]

20. So was Hitler n/t

n/t

[BootinUp]

22. So you have a problem with me observing that?

[Sam Odom]

24. No problem, just a fact

[bdamomma]

85. agreed and quite educated too.

[Roy]

11. This old chestnut again???? nt

[annabanana]

12. "some here". . . ."SOME HERE'??

ex-squeeze me...

Anyone who considers themselves a "friend" of this guy, please stand up.
.
.
.
. I thought so.

[ComerPerro]

67. Some people say strawman arguments are a waste of time...

[KingFlorez]

13. Who ever said he was a good guy?

[DaveJ]

14. Even bad guys say things that make sense sometimes...

But anyway... Overall I'd say his high exposure right now is a *tactic that promotes support for infinite war. The real issue these days is whether we want that.

[stillcool]

18. oy ...

second grade flash-back.

[Punkingal]

21. I don't think he is a good guy.

But I saw him interviewed by Brian Williams, and he came across as intelligent and articulate. And he wasn't foaming at the mouth like Bush was at last Friday's press conference. It is just sad that someone like him can behave with so much more dignity than the President of the United States.

[bdamomma]

86. behave with dignity??? there are more of us who have

more dignity than bush.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

25. Similar To The Fans Of Buchanan Here

They think they should support a racist conservative like Buchanan, just because he pretends that he disagrees with King george, and starts talking words like "impeachment."

Just because he has some criticism of george, DOES NOT mean he is anywhere close to one of us.

The leader of Iran is another crazed lunatic, who just happens to dislike the crazed lunatic running our country.

Which is why we're doomed in the end.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

26. Well I make my opinions of the man by what I see and hear from him.

Not what the government is telling me about him because they have sufficiently proven to me that they lie.

After watching the interview he had with Mike Wallace that he is certainly more well read and educated than our "ride'em cowboy" leader. And from reading a brief summary of his speech at the U.N today which MSNBC provided he certainly seems reasonable in his assessment of our current state of affairs.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14911603/

[Sam Odom]

28. Do you know his stance on Israel ?

[Freedom_from_Chains]

31. Well I have heard it said that he wants to wipe Israel off the map.

But I have yet seen a single source of where he said that at. I posted that question here at DU earlier, where he stated that at, and have not got any response. So do you know of a source and it what context he made those statements?

[ShortnFiery]

51. It all depends on one's interpretation ...

There are some Farsi translators that claim he was referring to "The Zionists" and NOT the State of Israel.

But gee, it's such a great excuse to dismiss everything else he says, I think that most pro-invasion folks will interpret his remarks in the worst possible light.

Yeah, I know he denies the Holocaust, which is deplorable, but also, no reason NOT to talk with the leadership of Iran.

Saying that "you don't negotiate with what YOU define as terrorists" is just a lame excuse that POWERFUL countries use to kill those less strong. Guerrilla tactics are the only recourse, albeit despicable of an occupied peoples. :cry: :(

[Freedom_from_Chains]

64. I have read several things over the years put out by the right

that are 1. out and out lies or 2. Taken so out of context as to have a different meaning.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

66. You point out and important point that many people just don't

seem to get. Which is that the best these people can hope for in resistance to the U.S. is through the use of guerrilla tactics. For them to try to uniform up and take on our military would be a suicide mission.

If the tables were turned and America was in their position we would without hesitation use the same kind of tactics. Or at least I would hope we would to defend out country.

[mirabeau]

76. We already did.

That's why we are Americans and not Brits! The colonists had no way to fight off the powerful British Empire, so instead of playing by their rules, they learned how to fight (dirty?) from the Indians. That's how we won our independence.

This comment is not meant to support the terrorists or the Iranian president. It's part of our own history that we should have learned from. If you back someone into a corner, they will fight any way they can.

[mike_c]

33. it's not particularly worse than Israel's stance on Iran...

...or the Palestinians. Sure, you can focus on the rhetoric and use that as a defense against the real issues, but Israel is certainly a lot more likely to make good on threats against Iran than Iran is likely to put it's anti-Israel rhetoric into action. Ahmadineejad is not moving against Israel. His "stance" is at least as much a product of the situation that Israel has created in the ME as it is a product of his personal antisemitism, which is doubtless considerable.

Simply demonizing Ahmadineejad because of his rhetoric, or even because of his personal antisemitism is really not going be very productive UNLESS your objective is expanded conflict in the ME.

[razors edge]

41. is it anything like

israel stance on lebanon?

[IndianaGreen]

48. Who cares about Israel? Let Israel clean up all the cluster bombs

they dropped in Lebanon before anyone comes whining about poor little Israel being bad mouthed by Iran's President.

No Iran war, no way!

[Smithson]

54. THE US IS NOT ISRAEL.

Enough!

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

90. Yes.

He's stated emphatically he's got no plans or desires to attack Israel.

Do you know his stance on Israel?

[Windy]

27. You have two religious fundamentlists in a pissing contest

This in an impasse. But the President of Iran certainly rallied his base in the Middle east just as Bush rallied his base in the US. Both had the same motivations!

All of this unrest is the product of a failure of this administration to continue to negotiate between the palestinians and israelis coupled with the tragedy that is Iraq.

We continue on our downward spiral...sadly.

[A HERETIC I AM]

29. Just because you dislike or disagree with everything he stands for.....

does that mean he shouldn't be listened to? Does that mean he didn't make any valid points?

Just asking.

An elected leader of a sovereign nation that happens to be a member of the United Nations was snubbed by the USA tonight.


I can hear Jon Stewart now: "Uh.....oh...he was there? Sorry....we were out having a sandwich."

[USA_1]

30. Who gives a shit whether he's good or not????

It's Bush who is the biggest threat to world peace. He started a war that has just about fucked up the world.

Ahmadinejad has done no such thing. And if you bothered to read Juan Cole's site you would know that he never called for genocide for Israel. Yet, the pro-war reich wing news media continues to pretend that he said it when he did not. The entire story was made up bullshit by those interested in profiting from another war. Ahmadinejad may have his faults but he's no Bushshit.

[Windy]

32. Why don't you put the Juan Cole link up so others can see it too

If that statement was never made, it needs to be exposed. We are on the cusp of another war. Every bit of trickery the assholes that be may use to foster their efforts and drum up support has to be brought out into the open!

[Windy]

34. Very true... he called for Israel to be moved out of the region

but it is true that he called the Holocaust a myth.

But critically, he did not call from Israel to be blown off the map.

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/60AE1720-F333-4869-974D-3B69283105BF.htm

[bdamomma]

88. agreed and we are getting manipulated again to start another

war, now with Iran, this is pure BS. Pure BS.

[Stinky The Clown]

36. Thank you. Cheering for him is little better than cheering for Il Dunce

Or Saddam

Or Quadafi

Or Amin

Or any of a whole hosts of past and present 'leaders'.

[ShortnFiery]

52. I have not viewed ONE POST that cheered for him ...

This is an imagined event or a conclusion drawn from mis-interpretation. :shrug:

[flyarm]

37. little lord pissy pants is not a "good guy " either and today he

did nothing but spew propaganda!

and it isn't iran that has bombed another country to oblivion and back centuries..that would be "our president" that did that!

It was not this Iranian president that murdered or caused the murder of 300,000 Iraqi's ..that would be our president!

it wasn't this Iranian president that lied to the American people..and the world and said Saddam was involved in 9/11 or had WMD..that would be our president

It wasn't the Iranian president that let Osama Bin Forgotten go in Tora Bora..that would be our president!

and just who has more nuclear armament and capabilities..than we do, anywhere in the world?????

bullshit only goes so far!



Who has tortured people and renditioned people all over the world in the past 6 years..that would be our president

and who let people drown and die in attics and die of dehydration during a hurricane..because he couldn't get the most simple human nessesities to his people ..that would be our president..but he sure as hell could rush bombs to Isreal in a fucking slap assed hurry to bomb the fucking shit out of human beings..

water nooooo..bombs yes...

that would be our president!

no Iranian president would dare go against our nation..they know they would be blown to oblivian..anyone who thinks different is the real fool!

i believe our president is one of the worst terrorists in the world today! and of that,i am ashamed!

fly

[bdamomma]

91. very good.

:applause:

[IndianaGreen]

38. Iran is not working on an atomic bomb, we should be talking to them

Bush, your alternative to Iran, has lied to us into a war in Iraq, and is now lying again to get us into another of his holy crusades.

Ahmadinejad is not a good guy, but Iran and its people are not evil, and Bush is the personification of evil--the Anti-Christ in the flesh!

[flyarm]

40. absolutely..thank you...

there will always be some evil leaders in the world and we should be the leaders to what is better..instead we have an equally evil person running our nation..and for that i have shame!

your evil guy, does not make my evil guy, any less evil!

fly

[windbreeze]

39. On the previous thread....no one...and I mean no one...

indicated, stated, said, or any such thing, that Ahmadinejad is a good guy...NO ONE...so why the special thread just to make the same point again?? just curious...no offence meant...it just seems a little redundant...when the point was already being discussed...
windbreeze

[RadiDem]

42. 'If at first you don't succeed, try try again' LOL

[BootinUp]

43. Ahmadijenad Stole My Brain!

This thread is ridiculous.

[Marrah_G]

44. I am no fan of the Iranian President

But I also respect the fact that his people elected him and if THEY don't want him to continue they won't vote him in again. Since when is it our decision who other countries choose to lead them. His views on social issues and his view on jewish people would make him someone I would not want in charge of my country, nor someone I would ever look to as an ally. We elect bad leaders sometimes and so do they. Hopefully the next choice will be better. The people of Iran are not our enemy. I think if a peaceful path of negotiation is taken we would have a good chance at a more stable Middle East. .

With that said I have to say he had ALOT of valid points on the Security Council and its ability to provide fair Justice for ALL countries. For the UN to have a chance to continue changes will have to be made to make it more inclusive of all and not simply a tool used by someone like W. This is in the interest of all countries, of all people.

To be able to see the validity of some statements, even when made by someone you dislike is a sign of reasoned thought.

The UN and especially the Security council NEED to be a place where all nations have a chance to be heard and a place where its purpose is not decided by one or two countries. That defeats the whole idea behind the United Nations.

[AJH032]

47. The thing about Iranian elections...

is that even though the citizens get to vote, they only get to choose from a list of candidates pre-approved by the Guardian Council (kind of like a high court). Many candidates that the Iranian people may prefer aren't even allowed to run.

[RestoreGore]

45. They are both fakes

I just watched his speech at the UN and he talked about peace, respect, and human rights...while gay men are hanged in the streets of Iran, and while free speech is non existant, he talks about respecting all human rights. What is it with these radical religious extremists talking out of both sides of their faces? Both he and Bush seem to enjoy torture and long for absolute power. And while I did not agree with how the Israeli government attacked Lebanon, to say you want Israel wiped off the map is not the sentence of a man who believes in human rights. There are truly so many issues this country and the Middle East could actually have had a dialogue on if the leaders and radicals in their countries and in this one weren't so damned obsessed with war, power, and political religious extremist BS. It is absolutely tragic. And it is sad that the U.S and Iran also share the distinction of being two of only five countries in this entire world that still practice the death penalty. Frankly, both he and Bush make me want to puke.

[Elidor]

46. So point these people out to us

You got nothing. Nothing but a straw man. Pathetic.

[tkmorris]

49. This is either ridiculous or just plain dishonest

I have not seen one person here at DU, or anywhere else for that matter, call him a "good guy". This is exactly the kind of tactic a Hannity or a Scarborough would use to make an argument seem ridiculous. You claim your opponent said something they didn't say. Strawman.

[Sam Odom]

50. I did not use "..."

[tkmorris]

53. No but I did because.......

I was quoting YOU. That's the way it's done my friend. Besides, that is precisely what you said some of us were doing even if you didn't use that precise symbol.

Your argument remains improper, and just plain wrong.

[Sam Odom]

55. If you were quoting me

you should have wrote "'good guy'"

There is a difference in a ' and a "

[tkmorris]

57. Really?

Well, thanks for pointing that out for me. I would have been so lost otherwise. :eyes:

Now it's my turn. You shouldn't have chastised anyone for thinking he was a good guy when no one said he was.

[Sam Odom]

58. We just disagree here

Have a nice evening and a great day tomorrow.

[semillama]

77. Ah-there's the secret code!

for when someone can't back up their statement, refuses to admit it, and takes his ball and goes home.

Thanks for disrupting, don't forget your coat.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

89. Yes, I guess I'll have to disagree with you.

I can't imagine why you'd think Hitler was sexy.

[CarlVK]

61. Show me how many times Iran has invaded and occupied

another close nation in the last 200 years.

Now, do the same for the USA.

After you clean the egg off of your face, let's discuss "good guys".

[gulliver]

56. Bullshit! Ahmadinejad would be nothing but for Bush's Iraq folly.

And anyone here at DU who thinks Ahmadinejad is a "good guy" is probably either a crank or, more likely, a Republican imposter trying to make the site look bad.

[CarlVK]

59. Compared to Bush he's a choir boy!

And Karl Rove thanks you for your part in the demonization process leading to war.

[NMDemDist2]

62. He (Ahmadineedjad) sounds reasonable on TV but he's not running Iran

the Ayatollas do, and those are some scary dudes

The President of Iran has very little power so I don't really care what he's doing most of the time. What I'd like to know is what the ayatollahs are up to cuz they are the dangerous ones.

Ahmadineejad is just a civil engineer who won a popularity contest and is getting lots of face time cuz Chimpie is hollering

[leesa]

63. He's not great. He's not terrible.

[Clarkie1]

65. No point in making value judgements on his character.

He is the elected leader of Iran. We need to talk to him.

[chefgirl]

68. Exactly right, Clarkie

To label this guy either a 'good guy' or an 'evil guy' is to use the same bullshit tactics that the RW uses. Black or white, no in between. "With us or against us" :eyes:

I'm sure he can be every bit as much of an asshole as Bush or any other world leader who has an agenda that he's trying to forward.

The real point here is that, whether he's a good guy or a bad guy, Bush definitely looks like the bigger moron for refusing to to even speak to the guy face to face. Moron or coward?...probably both.

It diminishes the dignity of the United States when our President behaves like the leader of some schoolyard clique who goes around bad mouthing anyone he personally doesn't want to let into the 'gang'.

To me, this kind of 'clouding of the waters' that the Bush administration is so adept at, is the REAL danger we face. Who can tell anymore whats real and what isnt? We've been lied to endlessly for the past six years.

The countless terra warnings, the hubris of the little idiot, snubbing his nose at the rest of the world, etc.. is exactly what makes us less safe, and it doesnt even matter if Ahmadenijad (sp?)is a good guy or a bad guy.

-chef-

[question everything]

70. Agree. But this does not mean that we should not talk to him

to avoid a nuclear war.

The history of our foreign policy has been to nurture dictators: in Cuba, Vietnam, Dominican Republic and other places. Not to mention the love them hate them the Talibans and Saddam Hussein - when it suited us.

One can always end a discussion and to declare that the two sides cannot even agree of whether the sun is out today. But to just ignore him, and North Korea, and Syria, and Cuba - is a foolish foreign policy.

[ACK]

71. He is attention-starved - he likes the spotlight no I mean Ahmadineejad

Hell we should be bigger than him. We should have direct talks with Iran.

But they have called for the US's downfall so trust them ? Fuck no not at all.

But the world can apply all the pressure they want and nothing will happen. What this guy really wants is some spotlight time and the muslim world to see him being powerful enough to bring the "Great Satan" to the negotiating table.

We need to bigger than one man's delusion of grandeur. But then again we are not that big domestically so I doubt we will be that big on foreign affairs.

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Zodiak]

73. No one has made that claim

so take your strawman and your false characterizations of those that care about truth in war and stick it where the sun doesn't shine.

[Brundle_Fly]

78. well stated.

[Bake]

79. I don't trust him now, and I sure as hell don't trust him w/nukes

He's sitting on a big pot of oil but wants nuclear power for domestic use? Sorry, but I don't believe him. And there are already more than enough nukes on the planet.

Admittedly, if Iran obtained nulcear weapons (if they haven't already bought a few) and ever actually USED them, it would literally drown (or incinerate) in the storm of missiles that we (and others) would rain down on Tehran. So Ahmadinejad might be able to restrain himelf not to launch a first strike.

But I don't particularly feel like risking that.

Bake

[Lydia Leftcoast]

80. How many threads do we have to have in which DUers proudly

declare their hatred for the president of Iran?

You don't have to love Ahmadineejad to realize that you're being played like a violin to build up support for an invasion of Iran.

And if that happens, the Iraq occupation will look like a stroll in the park in comparison.

[LynneSin]

81. I don't think anyone here is pro-Ahmadineejad

However I do think all of us try to give some common courtesy when discussing people like Ahmadineejad in the sense to not use racists terms when describing him (same thing we would for anyone else who walks this planet).

He is; however, a force to be reckoned with and I just hope that we can deal with him and Iran in a matter that isn't going to send more soldiers off into a war with no end. Unlike Iraq, Iran actually has a decent army that hasn't been sanctioned & dismantled by the UN

[bdamomma]

82. compared with Bush this man is not as crazy as Bush

at least this man does not go to other innocent countries and start wars with them.

[hurricaneric]

92. Does anyone here actually know him?

Personally I think the Mullahs of Iran are more of the problem with Iran