In retrospect, who won today's Press the Meat 'debate', Webb or Felix

[Stinky The Clown]

There've been at least a few threads today about this. Most now have an opinion. But for those of you who actually saw it, who do you think won?

Why?

[LibDemAlways]

1. I laughed out loud when Macaca tried to explain away

his lifelong love affair with the Confederacy as "youthful rebellion." He knew damn well what he was doing when he was spraypainting racist graffiti on the walls of his high school, just as he knew what he was doing when he hung a noose in his office and the Confederate flag on his wall. He knew what he was doing when he named his kid Forrest after a KKK Grand Wizard. Timmy didn't go far enough in nailing Macaca on the race issue. So much racism....so little time.

The bottom line in this election is that Allen is Bush ass-kissing, racist scum who never should have been elected to the Senate in the first place. Virginians have an opportunity to replace him with someone who isn't a disgrace and an embarrassment.

[oldtime dfl_er]

3. Hear hear

VERY well put.


http://www.cafepress.com/scarebaby/1474370

[wiley]

21. It was UGLY.

Why, I shoot cotton balls at little bunnies to tickle them. That noose is just some old dog collar I just didn't have the heart to put around the brave and independent animal. I love all animals, even green and purple ones. It's how I'm made.

[Cosmocat]

24. The problem is ...

I think to any sane, cogent person, Webb will come off as the more capable person ...

However, Allen is a talking points machine ... He has them down to a T, and is a kind of slick with it ... Unfortunately, there are MANY who will like his sctict (sp) ... Take it from a Pennsylvanian, who sees a complete nutjob wrap himself into the GOP flag and have FAR too many people fall in line behind it ...

[AX10]

2. Mr. Macaca exposed himself.

[CarlVK]

7. Ewwww...and you LOOKED at it??

[ms liberty]

4. I watched it this morning...

I thought Webb made his points consistently, and handled the tough questioning about the role of women in the military pretty well. I think he would have done better to have clearly said "I was wrong then" and THEN discussed the details of his previous views, but all in all he handled that part well. He stood up to Felix and responded like a machine gun, which looked very good; and he was polite while he did it - extra credit points for that! I liked the way he repeatedly was able to work into his answers that he'd served and Felix hadn't, and it was subtle enough that it didn't look really obvious and self-serving. When he responded to Felix's description of the macaca incident, he described it as an insult, insulting, insulted, that was good; he connected his family history in the appalachian hills/back country area and the tradition of fairness and values well. That part got bonus points from me because he said it in a way that aligned his beliefs with those of rural/country people, and made it sound as if Felix was the one who didn't fit in, without actually coming out and saying it.
I really liked that because I live in a very rural country-people kind of area in the foothills of NC - same difference as SW Va., really - just on the other side of the mountains, and that's the kind of thing we really need to do - OUR values as Dems are much closer to those of these people, who are good-hearted and well-intentioned people for the most part, they've just had the wool pulled over their eyes for a long time by the Republicult. They've been brainwashed and lied to for so long they don't know which way is up.
I thought Felix didn't do as well. I won't go into as much detail on his responses, but he was on the defensive a bit, and he didn't have the advantage of having been in the military. He couldn't really undercut Webb because of that, HA! He also wishy-washed on the question of whether he'd commit to a full 6 years if re-elected - he really squirmed on that question. He was forced a couple of times to bring up his "football family" background - like that would be an acceptable substitute for the military experience Webb had! It was kind of lame...I'd say he managed to squeeze through it.

All in all, I think Webb won that debate fairly solidly. He had more to lose, and did better than I expected, but I don't know him well enough to have known what TO expect. I was left with a VERY favorable impression of Webb. As for Mr. Macaca - well, I can't stand Felix anyway. I thought he was his usual slimy self.

[Stinky The Clown]

5. Thank you VERY much for a cogent and thorough series of comments .....

I'm taken by your impressions more so because, as you say, you're not that familiar with Webb. The fact that he came off well to you is a good thing. The fact that you, as you say, are from that same part of the country makes it evn more meaningfull.

I was very taken by the way Webb phrased his connection to SW Virginia and his complimentary description of the people who live there. 'Fair minded' is how I think he phrased it. In weighing Felix's racisim against Webb's reality, I think such phrasing will be appreciated by the electorate. No one wants to think of themself as a racist (well, not many, anyhow), so it is easier and more self-complimentary to say "Yeah .... fair minded. That's what I am" and then self-identify with Webb instead of Felix.

I agree with the rest of your comments. Like you, I wish he had started with a disavowal of his anti-woman-in-the-military comments years ago and *then* explain it, but on balance, he was quite convicing in his self-cast role of an evolved man.

Thanks again for your comments.

[CTyankee]

18. I just posted my disappointment with Webb on women in the military

It just killed the interview for me. You'll see my post here on GDpolitics. I was hoping for an apology with an "I've evolved my position as I have been proved wrong" on his position.

What happened? Can't a man say he's wrong? The evidence is so clear, what is the matter with him?

I'm tough on him because we have to be. This is just too important, dammit!!

[blue neen]

16. You just gave an excellent description of the debate.

:thumbsup:

[MissWaverly]

6. my impressions of Webb as a speaker

I read on Daily KOS that he has a hard time with this but I was impressed. He looked
calm, very confident and I thought he responded to the questions with a "I am in complete
control" type of attitude. I found it impressive even though Tim Russert tried to rattle
him with the "women in military" questions; he seemed to give competent responses.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

8. I think Webb did well, and Allen got caught with his racism. I like

how he tried to say that he made up Macacca (sp?), when anyone with a brain knows that the word is degrading to people of color. It's screams of, "How stupid do you think we are?". I especially liked Russert not letting up and going into the confederate flag, noose, etc. It pointed out to those who were abused by such racist symbols, just WHO Allen is. Is Russert trying to assist us in getting rid of that scumbag, racist, Allen?

One, must ponder such things.

On Edit: It also helped that Webb brought up Allen's own discriminatory ideas on women in the military! As a female, look how those brave women in the military have proved that the male attitudes concerning their involvement was/is wrong-minded. Thank you, military women for your courage and tolerance to bring about such a change in attitude!

Edit sp error

[MissWaverly]

9. I dunno; Russert has been freaking me out lately

His interview of Cheney last week for instance; I thought it would be a major suck up session,
I didn't think that Russert was going to throw down a video clip of "we will be treated as
liberators and I don't think it will be long war" down on the table and although Cheney tried
a waffle, Russert came back with we now have a long bloody war.

and now today, he was throwing hardball questions at both candidates, what gives?

[I_Make_Mistakes]

12. Actually, he's probably a moderate Repuke, trying to rid the

party of the Rw'ers. I think that is what is happening, look at the Chaffe primary. I think they (moderate Repukes) are trying to take back their party. Good luck!

[MissWaverly]

13. very interesting, I had not thought of that

well, I support the march away from neocon ideals, pnac, UN bashing, unitary executive and
all the rest of it including nuclear weapons as a bargaining chip

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Here's a tidbit about Russert and his blonde brother, Matthews ......

Welch was proud to have personally cultivated Tim Russert from a “lefty” to a responsible representative of GE interests. Welch sincerely believed that all liberals were phonies. He took great pleasure in “buying their leftist souls”, watching in satisfaction as former Democrats like Russert and MSNBC’s Chris Matthews eagerly discarded the baggage of their former progressive beliefs in exchange for cold hard GE cash. Russert was now an especially obedient and model employee in whom the company could take pride.

DEMOCRACY, GENERAL ELECTRIC STYLE

The story in that link shows up all over the internets by various authors from various sources. In short, Jack Welch turned both Matthews and Russert to the dark side.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

19. Thanks for the input. Let those fake Christians burn for eternity

selling their souls to the highest bidder. I truly hate those who denigrate Christianity by claiming to be a Christian and then doing everything but follow Christs teachings, such as the two mentioned above.

Did you ever notice how they manage to bring their Christian upbringing into the interviews? They are wolves, and will be held accountable on their Judgment Day.

[MissWaverly]

20. well, that's a shame

what their dirty money has wrought, a trashed country, there was probably money sprinkled
everywhere to enable this tragedy.

[zonkers]

23. Do not be fooled. They play for ratings and with the pendulum swinging

back the other way(have you seen Fox ratings dip lately?) they have to pretend to be even handed to ensure viewership.

[MissWaverly]

25. zonkers, I think they have inside polling information

the Washington Post had a photo from Russert's show, they showed Webb full face but just
the back of Sen. Allen's head, they must have access to polls that we don't.

[FrenchieCat]

10. And considering that he is no politician....Webb indeed do very well....

and his responses weren't slicked, rehearsed or pandering.....and he certainly did wayyyyy better than Felix Macaca!

Webb sounded like a man of the people, and Felix like a Bush man.

[MissWaverly]

14. interesting you should say that

I have been thinking we have a group of politicians who have very little life experience to
draw upon. Many have no other experience than their current jobs. The closest they got
to making it on their own was college which was supported by mom & dad.

[xchrom]

11. to be honest -- i'm in cali.

i want to THINK that webb won -- despite i think his views of women are heinous.

but i'm not in their state -- which is very different than out here -- pete wilson not withstanding.

[dajoki]

15. Does anyone know the latest poll #'s?

[Awsi Dooger]

22. I just watched the replay and Webb did very well

In fact, I don't get the complaints in other threads that Allen was allowed to launch monologues and not cut off by Russert. Several times Webb kept going and monopolized portions of the debate. I thought that aspect was terrific. In fact, he was speaking so much I got to learn Webb's favorite word: overtly.

Early in the debate it's true Webb stumbled at the beginning of some answers with uh and um but he got rid of that as the debate went on, plus he became more forceful and stuck in some eye contact in the last two questions. When Russert tried to allow the macaca incident to pass Webb wouldn't have any part of it and stuck in some additional details, like Siddarth stayed at his relatives house the night before. Webb also prompted Russert that Allen had some issues of his own regarding women in the military.

Overall, a much more aggressive effort than I'm accustomed to from Democratic candidates on MTP.