I am a moderate person.

[Joe for Clark]

I have always been so, in a California way.

Meaning - I am fiscally very conservative and socially very liberaly - so you add them together and divide by two and you get moderate.

I think there are very many like this.

I have been brought up my whole life to deeply respect the military - my parents and brothers and now my kid serve in some war. Officers/grunts made no difference. You did what you believed. That is what counted. Some of my brothers served while some of my family went to protest the war - and it was OK - My Parents - officers in WWII supported my siblings PROTESTING the war - and it MADE SENSE - You know?? Wierd in retrospect, but made sense at the time.

Well, we are the majority now - we have to make sense of this thing here.

And really, it makes no sense at all. Who the hell are these people running this??

What a bunch of F-ups, no matter your perspective.

We win, either way. Isn't it November yet????

Joe

[Pharaoh]

1. I'd like you to be right Joe

But these guys don't exactly play by the rules :eyes:

[Joe for Clark]

3. Well, we'll see in a few weeks, I bet on us though.

No, they don't play by rules - HOWEVER, cheating only goes so far -

Joe

[FujiZ1]

2. Wow another one.

Amazing. How do you people go through life with the same bullshit line, "I'm fiscally conservative and socially liberal." Fucking wow, go you. Too bad none of you people ever take the time to look at social issues and realize they cost money to fix. "Yeah, we just solved the problem for 40 million Americans without health care, and it didn't cost us a cent." Seriously, I wonder if your stance will stop being so damn cool someday so people can start doing real things.

[Joe for Clark]

4. Well, I thought - they are not diametrically opposed concepts.

Dude - "you people" are probably the majority, I think we are the silent majority now.

I guess maybe my stance will not be so damn cool one day - I thought it was never brought to fore. It is my opinion though. I am afraid those with such opinions will be dead by then.

AND- It is not the opinion in the republican party now - REALLY NOT.

If they did think it was so, they wouldn't piss on those kids fighting right now- and they are.

I am an FDR democrat - totally.

Joe

[guidod]

5. Great response FujiZ1!

All of these so called "fiscally conservtives" democrats have no idea what it means to be a democrat. They're "socially liberal?" What a bunch of hypocrisy! :wtf:

[NMDemDist2]

7. i'm fiscally conservative too. I think we should stop throwing billions

at the Pentagon and use it for social programs and infrastruture with a balanced budget

paygo--is that so hard to comprehend?

[guidod]

8. It makes all the sense in the world.

The term "fiscally conservative and socially liberal" makes no sense to me.

[NMDemDist2]

10. but I'm both. I want the Feds to stop spending all our wealth on guns

and start buying more butter (to borrow a phrase) and I am for equal rights for all. Gay marriage, Women's Rights etc etc

it's not confusing to me :shrug:

[guidod]

13. You're against the way

the money is being spent not the amount?

[NMDemDist2]

14. actually both. n/t

[guidod]

31. I rest my case.

[NMDemDist2]

32. how so? it doesn't make me conservative to want to save $$$ and

spent the resources we have on our own people?

my dictionary defines "conservative" as having the power or tendency to conserve; preservative.

I conserve resources by reusing, reducing and recycling, I conserve the environment with my choices in lighting, cars, clothing, housing. I conserve water. I conserve and preserve the Constitution of my country by fighting against Radical Fascist corporatists.

Perhaps you'd better reopen your case?

[guidod]

34. My dictionary says

conservative: " holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation, typically in relation to politics or religion." I think I like yours better. :-)

[guidod]

6. BTW welcome to DU!

:toast:

[ourbluenation]

9. and tell me, how do you go thru life being a complete asshole?

jesuschristonacracker. isn't there another way you could have gotten your point across? and fudjiwhatever - if you don't think there's government waste, go check out how much we pay halliburton and what they get paid for. It's wrong to assume that fiscally conservative = evil. For me it's about spending money wisely. Ooooh - scary.

Do you bargain shop for anything? computers? clothes? etc????? Guess what - that makes you fiscally conservative.

[NMDemDist2]

11. ROFL

that too :rofl:

[Joe for Clark]

16. Just passion coming across -

Hell, I respect it deeply.

It is one of those things, I BELIEVE - if you really are christian - (I think I am) do you REALLY believe -that "what so ever you do to the least of my brothers" - the sermon on the mount thing was the real deal - you know?? Cause if you do - that WAS the deal - nothing more to discuss.

I know a lot of asshole's that don't - and I don't understand at all.

Damn. clearly it was the only thing that meant anything.

It comes down to belief in the end.

Joe

[blue cat]

17. I am a Jesus lover

and I feel great voting for the democrats. I pay close attention to voting records, and the democrats are just better at helping the poor. There is more about helping the poor in the Bible than on any other subject bar none. I just couldn't vote for the money changers.

[Joe for Clark]

23. I think that is exacly the way to look at it.

Joe

My family is pretty western european - you know, priests and soldiers - they all looked at it the same as we do.

I agree with you.

Joe

[blue cat]

28. My friend is also wordly

She has lived in other parts of the world. I've noticed people who have seen the world tend to be liberal. They seem to be able to see world in colors instead of in black and white like conservatives.

[ourbluenation]

24. well you're kinder than me Joe - but I'm pmsing bad today...by the way

waddya think about Gore/Clark???

[Joe for Clark]

26. I like Gore - and I REALLY think highly of the General.

I want him SOD - I really do, cause I think that is where he can help us the most.

I don't care who is VP anymore.

Joe

[FujiZ1]

29. Hold it there cowboy.

Sorry for being so fucking frank, I realize we should be hitting each other with soft pillows everytime someone comes through with some ridiculous cliche. Fiscally conservative? Fuck no, I'm realistic. FISCALLY RESPONSIBLE? Yep. "Fiscal conservative" is a feeder line, all it really means is, "Yeah sure, I care about people, but I'm no fucking wacky lib, I don't want to waste all sorts of fucking cash on them." Awesome, you get both ends, and no negative side-effects.

I don't bargain shop for shit either. I either research quality or don't get it. I don't know if that makes me sound like I am rich or what-not, but I just consider myself to be reasonable. I don't own anything for that reason regardless, and honestly I don't need most of the shit corporate america thinks I need.

You know what? I'm so goddamn sick of explaining this shit. I shouldn't have to, this should have been discovered like 10 years ago when Clinton unrolled and passed his healthcare bill. It's like the United States is caught in this vacuum where nothing changes and everyone always fucking fights for shit with no resolution. People seriously think we should get rid of minimum wage. That's a failure on our part, and those who represent us, not a success for corporate america and right-wing fools. Lets get our fucking heads straight as a party and do stuff for once instead of this fucking patty cake play it safe crap.

[Joe for Clark]

30. We are on the same page.

It is conservative to think that - if our country did invest money in the WEAKEST of our people it will come back with interest in due course. Taxes, etc..

To do otherwise is beyond foolish -

We are Americans, and we take care of our own - or we certainly should.

To do otherwise is worse than foolish,

I think that is "conservative" fiscal thought.

Best to you,

Joe

[Sparkly]

19. "They cost money to fix."

Makes sense to pay for them though, rather than borrowing -- doesn't it? And compared to the costs of the Iraq occupation, it's not impossible.

I think I'm fiscally "responsible" -- I think "conservative" is a confusing term now. (If it's what the people who call themselves "conservative" do with money, forget it; if it's meeting the needs of our citizens and paying for it by cutting back corporate and fatcat wealthfare, then I'm that -- and I think many liberals who say they're 'fiscally conservative' mean something like that.)

[Stardust]

33. Iraq: $1.5Bn/wk. Lives lost: priceless.

[Mz Pip]

25. It's all about

what the money is spent on.

How is that small government working for you now? Oh, wait. BushCo has grown the government to its biggest ever. So you must really hate the fucker now, right?

Providing a safety net for our citizens is in the best interests of this country. Tell me how we benefit by having 40 million people uninsured? How does having people who can't afford health care "good" for our country.

Of course it will cost money. Duh. Iraq costs 4 billion a month. That's going well isn't it?

Whatever.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[CJCRANE]

36. Um, wasn't Clinton

"fiscally conservative and socially liberal". Isn't that the so-called "Third Way"?

[ourbluenation]

12. K and R

from one moderate to another

[blue cat]

15. Then you sound like a conservative democrat

The republican party is anything but fiscally conservative. My friend at work is a die-hard democrat who is both fiscally and socially conservative. She is anti-abortion, anti-gay, and supports SSI privatization. We agree about a lot of things and talk a lot at work about politics.

[Change has come]

20. Would your friend vote for * a third time? n/t

[blue cat]

22. No

She is a conservative democrat and very religious, Bahia Faith. She doesn't like Bush or the republicans at all. We have room for people with different beliefs. Diversity is our strength. She loves Kerry and is disappointed that her son likes Bush. I was trying to make the point that there are democrats that are conservative. I never asked her why she isn't a republican because I'm so happy that she is a life long democrat. I think it may be one of those cases where her parents were democrats so she has always been a democrat.

[Joe for Clark]

21. THEY ARE FISCALLY DANGEROUS!!

We may find out the hard way.

I am Catholic - and like the majority of us - We don't think abortion is good - BUT most of us know we have no right to inject our beliefs on others. We don't. That is a judgement we cannot make at all.

BUT WE DO KNOW - the taking of life is very serious - this war was IMMORAL - and whether you believe a fetus or an 18 year old boy is a "life" taking it is very wrong.

You know, the song I most remember from confirmation - "What so ever you do to the least of my brothers, that you do unto me" -

Ask Catholics -

That is the deal -

Honest to God,

And I am not a very good Catholic.

I get that though - loud and clear!!

As to fiscal responsibility - FDR had no problems with it - IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GREAT DEPRESSION.

I think, fiscal responsibility and social responsibilty are the same.

How can they not be???

Joe

[Sparkly]

27. Well said, Joe!!

"I think, fiscal responsibility and social responsibilty are the same.

How can they not be???"

Absolutely!! :applause:

[blue cat]

18. Joe Moderate is FANTASTIC

Have you seen this?

A day in the life of Joe republican

Joe gets up at 6 a.m. and fills his coffeepot with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some tree-hugging liberal fought for minimum water-quality standards. With his first swallow of water, he takes his daily medication. His medications are safe to take because some stupid commie liberal fought to ensure their safety and that they work as advertised.

All but $10 of his medications are paid for by his employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance - now Joe gets it too.

He prepares his morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Joe's bacon is safe to eat because some girly-man liberal fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.



In the morning shower, Joe reaches for his shampoo. His bottle is properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some crybaby liberal fought for his right to know what he was putting on his body and how much it contained.

Joe dresses, walks outside and takes a deep breath. The air he breathes is clean because some environmentalist wacko liberal fought for the laws to stop industries from polluting our air.

He walks on the government-provided sidewalk to subway station for his government-subsidized ride to work. It saves him considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some fancy-pants liberal fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

Joe begins his work day. He has a good job with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some lazy liberal union members fought and died for these working standards. Joe's employer pays these standards because Joe's employer doesn't want his employees to call the union.

If Joe is hurt on the job or becomes unemployed, he'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some stupid liberal didn't think he should lose his home because of his temporary misfortune.

It is noontime and Joe needs to make a bank deposit so he can pay some bills. Joe's deposit is federally insured by the FSLIC because some godless liberal wanted to protect Joe's money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

Joe has to pay his Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and his below-market federal student loan because some elitist liberal decided that Joe and the government would be better off if he was educated and earned more money over his lifetime. Joe also forgets that his in addition to his federally subsidized student loans, he attended a state funded university.

Joe is home from work. He plans to visit his father this evening at his farm home in the country. He gets in his car for the drive. His car is among the safest in the world because some America-hating liberal fought for car safety standards to go along with the tax-payer funded roads.

He arrives at his boyhood home. His was the third generation to live in the house financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans.

The house didn't have electricity until some big-government liberal stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

He is happy to see his father, who is now retired. His father lives on Social Security and a union pension because some wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal made sure he could take care of himself so Joe wouldn't have to.

Joe gets back in his car for the ride home, and turns on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. He doesn't mention that the beloved Republicans have fought against every protection and benefit Joe enjoys throughout his day. Joe agrees: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

[ItNerd4life]

35. LOL, Damn that's so funny. It hit's right to the core

Why aren't our representatives saying things like this! This is how I believe we should fight the Republicans, not by calling them names and asswipes, but by saying things like this.