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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 03:58 PM
Original message
George W. Bush confronted his enemies today.
Edited on Thu Sep-14-06 04:01 PM by seafan
And they are in his own party.

John McCain
John Warner
Lindsey Graham
Gen. Colin Powell
Army Gen. John Vessey


Today is a pivotal day.

President Bush visited Capitol Hill Thursday where he conferred behind closed doors with House Republicans on legislation to give the government more power to spy on, imprison and interrogate terrorism suspects.



Bush is in a panic to pass legislation before the November midterm election to legalize his torture of prisoners and detainees, and to immunize his lieutenants from the possibility of prosecution for international war crimes for these violations of the Geneva Convention.


Bush's proposals would narrow the U.S. legal interpretation of the Geneva Conventions in a bid to allow tougher interrogations and shield U.S. personnel from being prosecuted for war crimes.



So, Bush stormed up to the Capitol today, accompanied by Vice President Dick Cheney and White House adviser Karl Rove, to strike fear into the hearts of the Republicans, to enforce their compliance.


WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Former Secretary of State Colin Powell joined top Republican senators to oppose President Bush's request to reinterpret a Geneva Convention rule in order to allow tougher interrogations of terror suspects.
Powell wrote to a major opponent of Bush's plan, Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona, in a letter released Thursday, that he opposed Bush's request of Congress to allow reinterpretation of Common Article III of the Geneva Conventions.

Article III prohibits nations engaged in combat not of "an international character" from, among other things, "violence to life and person, in particular murder of all kinds, mutilation, cruel treatment and torture" and "outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment."
In a decision earlier this summer, the Supreme Court ruled that the administration must meet Article III standards in its treatment of terror detainees.
The administration believes that the court's ruling prevents it from properly interrogating terrorist suspects and asked Congress to approve a change in interpretation.

But McCain, a former Vietnam POW, and Powell -- along with Sens. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and John Warner of Virginia, chairman of the Armed Services Committee -- oppose any changes to the U.S. interpretation of Article III, arguing that it could adversely affect enemies' treatment of captured U.S. service members harshly. (Watch why the GOP is split over tribunals -- 2:40")
"The world is beginning to doubt the moral basis of our fight against terrorism," Powell, a retired Army four-star general, wrote in his letter to McCain, whose amendment last year opposed the use of torture. (Read Powell's letter)
"To redefine Common Article III would add to those doubts," Powell said. "Furthermore, it would put our own troops at risk."

McCain also has issued a letter from retired Army Gen. John Vessey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff during the Reagan administration, opposing the administration bill.
Vessey told McCain the measure "would undermine the moral basis which has generally guided our conduct in war throughout our history."

Military lawyers also have raised concerns about the administration bill's restrictions on due-process rights for defendants. Prosecutors would be able to present evidence to the tribunal that would be kept secret from the defense and use hearsay and coerced confessions against defendants. Human rights groups have objected to those provisions as well.

Powell's letter surfaced while Bush held a morning meeting with Republican lawmakers to lobby for his tribunal plan.


The Powell letter release was critically timed by McCain, according to former Boston Globe writer, Thomas Oliphant, stating this on the Al Franken Show today.


And Bush is intimidating his top military people with a renewed assault:

In an effort to drum up support for its proposal, the White House released a second letter to lawmakers signed by the military's top uniformed lawyers. Saying they wanted to "clarify" past testimony on Capitol Hill in which they opposed the administration's plan, the service lawyers wrote that they "do not object" to sections of Bush's proposal for the treatment of detainees and found the provisions "helpful."

Two congressional aides who favor McCain's plan said the military lawyers signed that letter after refusing to endorse an earlier one offered by the Pentagon's general counsel, William Haynes, that expressed more forceful support for Bush's plan.



At nearly the same time Bush met with House Republicans, Sen. John Warner (news, bio, voting record), R-Va., chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee, on Thursday was asking his panel to finish an alternative to the White House plan to prosecute terror suspects and redefine acts that constitute war crimes.

The White House on Thursday said the alternate approach was unacceptable because it would force the CIA to end a program of using forceful interrogation methods with suspected terrorists.



Warner believes the administration proposal would lower the standard for the treatment of prisoners, potentially putting U.S. troops at risk should other countries retaliate.

Two other Republicans — McCain and Sen. Lindsey Graham (news, bio, voting record) of South Carolina — have joined Warner in opposing Bush's bill.

The administration didn't allow such a direct challenge to pass without criticism. On Wednesday, the White House arranged for a conference call with reporters so National Intelligence Director John Negroponte could argue that Warner's proposal would undermine the nation's ability to interrogate prisoners.



And, another loony pops up with this:

Sen. John Cornyn (news, bio, voting record), R-Texas, who supports the administration, said he did not think the Bush plan would endanger U.S. troops because al-Qaida doesn't take prisoners. "The prisoners they do take they behead," he said.


Troops, did you hear that? Putting your lives on the line for our country, you deserve infinitely better than this insane GOP. They are certifiable.


And this:

Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, R-Tennessee, has threatened to circumvent the Armed Services Committee and bring the administration's plan directly to the Senate floor, which could lead to an election-year showdown within Republican ranks.


And this:

"We hope to hear from the president how urgent it is that we pass measures to fight terrorism before Congress leaves for the November elections," said Ron Bonjean, spokesman for Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill.






The other bill Bush is pushing would give legal status to the administration's warrantless wiretapping program. It was approved on a party-line vote by the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday, but is stalled in the House amid staunch opposition from Democrats and some Republicans concerned that the program violates civil liberties.




Passage of both pieces of legislation is viewed as critical to the GOP's strategy to present itself as the party of national security going into the midterm elections less than two months away.



This is it, people.

This is all they have left.

They MUST force these 2 pieces of legislation, legitimizing their crimes against humanity and their blatant violations of our civil rights, and neatly sign them into law before the November election. The grim alternative for them is to find themselves burned at the stake of a Democratic barrage of criminal investigations aimed at them, come 2007.

This is their last chance to try to save their sorry, murderous, traitorous hides.


This is the rapidly approaching end of the GOP.

It's been a long time coming.

But they are finished.












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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. It is, unfortunately, though, NOT all they have left
They have voter supression. They have flat-out disenfranchisement. They have turn-aways and turn-offs and phone jamming and rides to polls for Democrats that don't show up.

And when that fails, they have DIEBOLD.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. They're going to steal it again..
Even if the Dems have a 20 point national lead the night before the election. 60-40% is close enough to 49-51% as far as the Corporate Media is concerned. The whores will tell us, "Everyone knows polls are inaccurate, they've been that way since 2000."

Who's going to stop them? I certainly want to, but I'll need some help.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
16. This and the media is the key to the whole thing
They *will* try again. Will they succeed? Depends if the media rolls over again.

I need my job, y'all, but I swear I am about ready to take to the streets if they do it again.
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bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #6
19. Wolf B interviewed Schaefer (?) today about 2006 election
Schaefer said the 2006 election is looking very similar to 2004; many disliked W's policies, but W won. And democrats worked hard to get out the vote but were beaten in this by the republicans, especially in OH.

ZERO comment that it doesn't make any difference how many people you get out to vote if there're not enough machines and people have to wait 8-9 hours to vote. And many voters have their registrations 'lost' etc etc etc.

Funny how there's never any mention that there might be any problems with how the elections are run or how the votes are counted.

KBreitwasser (sp?) said on Larry King Live that she wrote her new book about the 9-11 'investigation' b/c she and the 'Jersey Girls' found out when they went to DC that the government doesn't work like they were taught in 8th grade civics classes. They want to wake the US people up to how the government really works. Someday maybe someone on a similarly widely watched TV program will talk about how elections today also don't work like we were taught in the 8th grade.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 10:11 AM
Response to Reply #19
26. and don't forget the flagrantly dishonest pols
Edited on Fri Sep-15-06 10:14 AM by ooglymoogly
it takes crooked machines, disenfranchisement, a treasonous media and the dishonest pols and exit pols they promote... and yes they will once again steal the election in november if the dems don't begin screaming at the top of their lungs about these criminal injustices.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
11. Cheney is in too deep. He will stop at nothing to stay in power
And if Alberto's insistance that everything the malAdministration has done was all legal, why the hell do they have to change laws retroactively?
Oh, they lied about the legality. Got it.

Yes, there will be wholesale fraud in Nov.
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ooglymoogly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. they are all in too deep to lose this election.
the only chance we have is if we win a landslide...then they couldn't get away with stealing the election; crooked press, crooked machines, crooked pols and even disenfranchisement couldn't rear its treasonous head.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Yep. We need a landslide/ they need a squeaker.
They will promise to send Laura to every GOP supporting household in America to fix supper and read to the kids if they think it will gain a few votes.

The price of gas is the tell-tale sign. Their corporate sponsors are nervous and willing to part with some of the obsecene profits to try and buy a close race.

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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
25. they also have mccain, powell, et al...
...who are being portrayed as heroes here, so anti-bush, now.

it is only the extreme right wing faction of the right wing republican party of the right wing imperialist system that may be in trouble.

i'll take it. but there's a whole lot of right wing remaining after those guys are in the hague (and powell should be there with them).

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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
2. well put together seafan - thanks for this work
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seafan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
17. Thank you, Supersedeas. This is a very important day in our fight, IMO.
Open rebellion against * by the old guard members of his party, his top military lawyers, and former Cabinet officials and long-time Republican military brass.

This is *'s final push to legitimize the criminal behavior of his administration. They know they are in incalculable trouble, and this is the reason for the tremendous pressure to pass these 2 pieces of *legislation* before the midterm election.

Yes, they still have *Diebold*, voter suppression, et. al., but this time it all looks very, very risky.

And now we learned that they have microwave weapons that Secretary of the Air Force Michael Wynne says should be tested on U.S. civilians before being used on the battlefield. Might be needed for the inevitable rioting if another election is stolen...don'tcha know.


I feel that something very important has happened today. * has met the wall of resistance finally. A long-awaited tipping point.

America has had enough. We will not be threatened with *'s fear weapon any longer.

I would not want to be in *'s shoes right now.

Look for anything to happen between now and the election. Just be ready for anything, because they will stop at NOTHING to stay in power.

People who would steal an election will never have the good of our citizens in mind.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. Everyone in red states... CALL YOUR SENATORS NOW!
888-355-3588

Let them know that you support upholding the rule of law, or that you think it's a shame that they're trying to legitimize Bush's crimes, or that you wouldn't like to see this country's integrity tarnished any more than it already has been, or just however you want to put it... but please,
CALL!

:kick:
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no_hypocrisy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. I wouldn't exactly drag out Brunhilde to sing her final aria in
"Gotterdammerung" (i.e., "Twilight of the Gods") quite yet.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. mccain faced the devil and won
that cannot be said for the deserter
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young_at_heart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bush "stormed" to the Capitol today...........I like it!
He is a bully and it's time everyone called him on it.
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. the buffoon brigade rides again!
cue the muzak.
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Virginia Dare Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Did he go all postal on them...
like he did on Matt Lauer? I would have like to have been a fly on the wll for that.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
9. Did Shrub* make them all an offer they couldn't refuse?
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
10. Horseshit
when Rove cracks the whip, the poddles will line up and jump through the hoop. Another contrived bit of "leadership" from the stupid, drunken, cocaine-addled, vactioning idiot.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. The 'poodles' seem to be in revolt
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Senate_Armed_Services_Committee_defies_Bush_0914.html

Senate Armed Services Committee defies Bush; Passes its own terrorism tribunal bill

"Four of the 13 Republicans on the panel joined the 11 Democrats to pass their version of the measure, rejecting Bush's proposal to bar defendants from seeing classified evidence prosecutors may want to use in court," reports Bloomberg News.

The four Republicans acted against the White House today only a few hours after the president paid a rare visit to Capitol Hill in order to personally lobby House members to support his plan.

...

"Voting 15-9, the Senate Armed Services Committee approved the bill they said would provide suspects more legal rights than Bush wanted and resisted his attempt to more narrowly define the Geneva Conventions' standards for humane treatment of prisoners," reports Reuters.

Earlier today, former Secretary of State Colin Powell wrote a letter to Republican Senator John McCain (video link), supporting his opposition to the president's plan which would redefine the legal definitions in Article 3 of the Geneva Convention.


Sounds like the old warriors plucked the chicken hawks a bit today.

Yes, folks, call your men in D.C. and insist they SUPPORT THE TROOPS by not allowing bushco to weaken the Geneva Convention just to save their own yellow asses. Weakening or ignoring Geneva puts our personnel at greater risk. Sorry, bush's butt isn't worth that!
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. You said it
This is nothing more than a ploy to make the other boneheads look like they are he-men. Its a song and dance to prepare for the election. Everything they do is deliberate and contrived.
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elperromagico Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
13. The time has come for the GOP to distance itself from a lame duck.
eom
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:37 PM
Response to Original message
20. The Dems AND the GOP...those that still have a soul....
need to stand together on this.
Bush won't give up without a fight, and it's about to get ugly. A few members of the GOP are starting to feel the sting of their conscience. Too bad Bush, Cheney, Gonzalez, Rice, Rumsfeld, etc. etc., aren't troubled with a such a silly thing.
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powergirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
21. HE'S GOING BACK TO WHAT WORKED FOR SO MANY YEARS
Edited on Thu Sep-14-06 10:48 PM by powergirl
All of the sudden someone has to tell BUSH that his stupid idea won't get passed. So, he gets out the ole' playbook - one that has worked for the last six years and brings his stupid band of morans (sic) to put the squeeze on the party faithful. Tom DeLay can't help at the House anymore - he's busy breaking in that new hunting license in Virginia. So, Bush, since he doesn't read newspapers, figured that everyone would be so awed by his presence and that of Frick and frack that everyone would just fall into line (as usual). But now it doesn't work anymore. (much to my shock and delight) I'm sure the Repubs are motivated by Bush's "Typhoid Mary" effect these days and want to distance themselves from him. I just hope our electorate gets rid of those morans (sic) who put these yahoos in office in the first place. :rant:
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 10:50 PM
Response to Original message
22. Negroponte has proven himself unfit to serve as director of the CIA. nt
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grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
23. Anybody know which way LIEberman voted?
Was he scared enough for his job to detach his lips from the chimp's behind for one vote?
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focusfan Donating Member (884 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 08:49 AM
Response to Original message
24. i sure hope republican congress
will be brought down like Bush and also see jail time for
supporting him 
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 10:16 AM
Response to Original message
27. Reality?

I decided to just respond to the title.
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 10:44 AM
Response to Original message
29. "Never did I say [Saddam Hussein] gave orders to attack 9/11."
Did I get that quote right? Anyone got a TIVO?

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 10:45 AM
Response to Reply #29
30. "took you a long time to unravel"
___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #30
31. Sorry, wrong thread -- meant to post to press conference thread
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
32. Sorry - can't excuse crimes AFTER THE FACT.
The proposed changes would come AFTER HE BROKE THE LAW.

He's still definitely prosecutable.

Besides, tho I doubt it with the current crop, the dems could change the lase BACK once they retake controll, but I doubt they would have the spines...
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leonard145b Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 02:12 PM
Response to Original message
33. Outrages Against Human Dignity?
We just heard the President of the United States refuse to obey the law and directly attack The Supreme Court of the United States, when he said “This debate is occurring because of the Supreme Court’s ruling that said that we must conduct ourselves under the Common Article 3 of the Geneva Convention.”

We just heard the President of the United States ask what outrages upon human dignity meant, when he asked “And that Common Article 3 says that, you know, There will be no outrages upon human dignity. It’s like — it’s very vague. What does that mean, outrages upon human dignity?”

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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
34. Bill Frist absolutely sucks big time,
I don't think there has ever been a more dysfunctional rubber stamp loving Senate Majority Leader, at least in my life time.
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Chipper Chat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I agree 100%
When Frist pulled his Schaivo stunt, rational republicans in the Senate should have called for his ouster and replaced him with a Hagel or McCain. Maybe with the right-wing out of control the pubs wold be in better shape now.
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