Huh come there are so many cowardly voters in the heartland of the USA?

[cboy4]

**I'm talking about voting ideology and I'm NOT bashing these states or the people who live there.

It's just that a friend who lives in Iowa told me today that he thinks this despicable GOP strategy of scaring people into voting Republican works in his state and others in the MidWest!

Why!!!???

Why does terra, terra, terra (copyright GOP) scare people in Iowa, or Nebraska or Oklahoma or Kansas??????? What terror is going to happen there?!?

If you live in New York City, or Los Angeles or Chicago or Boston or San Francisco, etc., ---- alright fine, I can at least understand a degree of concern, especially in NYC.

But you live in Des Moines and you're going to vote for the Republican candidate so you can feel "safer?"

STOP BEING AFRAID PEOPLE AND GROW A SPINE -- YOU ALLOW THE REPUBLICANS/TERRORISTS TO WIN!

It makes me crazy.

[Kutjara]

1. Seems like a lot of Midwesterners are mortally afraid...

...that Osama is planning to fly a plane into their local Applebees.

[driver8]

4. Hey, that would cause a collapse of their "Blooming Onion"!

We must keep them safe!! The Rethugs are the only ones who can do it!!

[cboy4]

5. LOL. I know.....the thought of me driving across the Golden Gate Bridge

to go to a Giants game must give many of them nightmares!

(When in fact, the only thing that should give anyone nightmares is how friggen BAD the Giants are this year! ;)

[Mojambo]

2. It's gotta be the oceans

Think about it. If those cities start burning, where are you gonna get the water to put it out?

[cboy4]

7. I'm NOT wasting a drop of Pacific Ocean to put out fire burning

anything involving a RED state!!!!! ;)

[rodeodance]

3. too many tall cornstalks for boogypeople to hide behind in the 'heart-

land?

[Doctor_J]

6. They're ignorant - get their "news" from hate radio

the 20-year-old Iowan has never listened to free radio - all she's ever heard is right-wing lines. You can't blame her for being brainwashed.

[cboy4]

9. Yea, but my friend is very liberal. That's what's so weird. He grew up on

a farm like a lot of people in Iowa, but does not subscribe to any of the right wing bullshit!

Which of course is why we're such close friends! :)

[brentspeak]

29. Thank you for that unhelpful and broad-brush post

[madville]

8. Its all those

It's all those religion hating, gunbanning, pro-welfare, anti-farming, retreating Democrats of course !!!!

:eyes: :silly:

[cboy4]

10. Awwww, someone who speaks my language!! :)

But in all seriousness, you know there are people who think just like that. :scared:

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

11. I understand that you're not trying to paint Midwesterners with

a broad brush, but come on, there are some awfully red sections in California. After all, you guys did elect the Gropenator Governor...

I honestly don't know what makes these people tick. I was born and raised in the City of Chicago and I have these types in my own family. My opinion is this: a lot of it is racism, pure and simple.

As well, don't forget Oklahoma City knows what terrorism is. Albeit home-grown terrorists but you get my drift....

[cboy4]

15. I'm not sure what the point is of mentioning that California has "awfully

red sections." LOL

I never said California is "red-free" and I don't for a second defend the idiots who voted in Schwarzenegger, believe me.

However, Disneyland (a place I'm sure we can all agree would be a natural target) is located in one of the "reddest" areas of L.A. (Orange County).

So the alarmists who live there have an arguably more legitimate reason to be concerned about terra than somebody living in Des Moines, Iowa.

My point is geography in relationship to potential terror targets....because every state has red counties/cities.

Anyway, you have an interesting point of view. Racism huh? Wow.

[BattyDem]

12. Maybe because big city citizens are used to a certain amount of fear

There's a line in the musical "Rent" that says:
"I'm a New Yorker. Fear's my life."

I think that line sums it up well. When you live in a big city, there's a certain amount of shit that happens or that can happen - and you get used to it. You learn to live with it and go on with your life without letting the fear control you.

The Heartland has not had a chance to become "immune" to the fear like the big city slickers have. ;-)


JMHO

[MadHound]

16. Bwahahahahaha, whatever!

If you think there is nothing to fear out here in the Midwest, you're fucking nuts. While you folks in NYC and other large cities worry about crime and such, farmers out here in the Midwest put their fortunes, wellbeing and even their lives on the line every single year when the plow the fields and put in their crops. One of the biggest gambles you can make in this world is farming. Farming is also one of the most dangerous jobs in this world. Farmers have higher injury and life insurance rates for that very reason, many of them higher than rates for more well known dangerous jobs such as mining. Fear, yes we know it all too well, we walk with it everyday.

Oh, and another thing, we're not all ignorant rednecks out here, in fact many of the midwestern states split for Bush at about the same rate as other close states did. Thus these broadbrush slam against the Midwest as a whole does nothing but alienate your liberal brothers and sisters who you're going to need this fall and in future elections. Way to give them the back of your hand, not:eyes:

And let's examine what the Midwest has contributed to liberal and progressive politics over the years. Let's see, they've given us the Wobblies, the Populist and Progressive Movements, all quite influential movements in our country and in liberal politics. And there are way too many influential progressives, liberals and Democrats that have come out of the Midwest to list here.

But go ahead, keep on insulting the Midwest, and continue to alienate the people out here. After all, it was such disdain of "flyover country" that helped turn many Democrats to the Republican party during the Reagan years. Keep it up, and you will guarantee that the Democrats won't win another election ever.

Good fucking show:grr:

[BattyDem]

19. Wow. You really took my post the wrong way

I was not trying to insult anyone. I was just trying to come up with some kind of explanation for the coasts always being blue and the heartland being red - despite the fact that we're all exposed to the same GOP fear-machine day after day.

The heartland has fears, too. I'm glad you informed me, but I don't know why you had to do it in such an angry and hostile way. I never called anyone a redneck. I do know that farming and mining are dangerous jobs and I respect those that do it, but I thought the OP was talking about people being afraid of terrorism and/or being a victim of a terrorist attack. That's the fear the GOP is playing to in order to get votes and that's the fear I was addressing in my post.

Read my post ... the subject line says "Maybe" ... "Maybe because big city citizens are used to a certain amount of fear" - I was speculating, nothing more. I'll be honest - I'm not exactly sure why you're so obviously offended by a silly theory. Maybe there have been some insulting posts recently and my post was the tipping point for you. It's cool ... I've been there, too.

I am truly sorry if I offended you or anyone else. That was not my intention. :-)



edited for clarity

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

23. Sorry, but looks at the epithets that have been flung around here

"Racist, ignorant, bigoted, uninformed" Look, again, you may not have intended this to become a Midwest bashing thread, but it has. And yes, the fact that you based this broad brush BS on what one person told you, well I find that to be sloppy logic. You don't like my calling you on it, too bad. Perhaps you will learn not to base your opinions upon the anecdotal evidence of one person.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Touchdown]

21. Let me take a wild guess

...that you lived some time in the South. The thin skin that they proudly display whenever somebody else brings up heir region for criticism (be it warranted or not) is sure rubbing off on you.

Oh' yeah, that "disdain of flyover country...during the Reagan years" is a total load of shit. Reagan told people exactly what they wanted to hear. "God bless America....The Soviets are an evil empire...Welfare queens driving Cadillacs...There you go again...Well!, etc. He was a svengali and they fell for it.

BTW: I was born in Missouri, and lived there for a decade as an adult. There are more of us loyal Dems who can take constructive criticism than you thin skinned region-babies. Dems can sill win the MW even without your vote extortion.

"Sure I want affordable health care, farm subsidies, a liveable wage, alternative fuels, well funded schools and nno wars for corporations just as much as the next guy... but don't diss the heartland and tell me those terrorists won't hit my grain silo or I'll take my vote away!" How many people (besides you) do you believe really think that way? :rofl:

[MadHound]

24. "Wild" is about the right word for it

No, I'm not from the South. I've lived in Missouri all of my live. And your caracicture of the Midwest and Missouri show how low a regard you hold for your birth state.

And what I'm doing isn't vote extortion, so pack up that strawman now.

And frankly, if you haven't noted the disdain for "flyover country" that many people on both coasts have, well I guess you haven't been paying attention. Hell, just look at this thread, where Midwesteners have been referred to as "racists, ignorant and uninformed" among other things. Hell, look at yourself friend, broadbrushing Southeners with your thin skinned remark

Shit, sometimes this place seems more and more like FRville, just stood on its head. Sad and pathetic, really.

Perhaps we as human beings can have the good grace not to launch and broadbrush and insulting attacks on any region. Or is that too much to hope for?

[Tyo]

13. I've been to Chicago several times

It's a great city, but I've always been struck how even there people seem very inward looking. It's like it's not only the center of the US but it's also the center of the world. I don't think that people in the Midwest are racist, I but I think that they're not particularly interested in the outside world and that they are content to accept the information and opinions put out by the media and the government. Not a good thing obviously.

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

26. Visiting Chicago and living in Chicago are two completely

different things.

There are still neighborhoods in the city of Chicago that blacks, Hispanics and Asians would be looked at "real funny" if they were seen walking down the street, particularly on the far Southwest and far Northwest Sides of the city.

Chicago's not as racially segregated as it was in the 1960's and 1970's for sure, but the underlying racism is still there. I've seen it in my own family and it's not a pretty picture. In fact, I find it disgusting, and because of it I tend to avoid family gatherings.

I wasn't trying to say that all Midwesterners and/or all Chicagoans are racist, far from it, but from what I've seen and heard from "some people" in my family, well if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

The best part of it, at least in my family, is that "these people" are what my husband and I refer to as "altar rail huggers". They're supposed to be good Catholics, but in our opinion they don't have a clue about what being a good Catholic is all about.

[Tyo]

36. You're right,

visiting a place and living in a place are two way different experiences. Also I've never had a chance to really venture out on my own there - I've always been shepherded around by friends or colleagues. But I've gotta say, everyone I've met there has been really nice and really eager to show me their city, but I'm sure that there were some areas that they didn't get around to taking me.

While I didn't get any what I would consider serious racist hits I was struck by what seemed to me a lack of interest in cultures and people outside, well, the Midwest. There was kind of a tendency to go with the easy stereotypes whether we were talking about the West Coast or China or Mexico. Stereotypes are not necessarily negative, but they're still stereotypes. Anyway, I'm looking forward to going back. It's kind of a different world for me to explore. That's one of the cool things about America.

[CarlVK]

14. AlQaeda bombs Jerkwater, KY county library!

LOL, how stupid. I don't know why they think they are prime targets either. Defies all logic.

[brentspeak]

30. I didn't know Kentucky was in the midwest!

Trying to do your part to antagonize Red State dems? Great job, great job.

:thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

[CarlVK]

40. Your fantasies have taken over.

Relax. You totally missed the point of my post, on top of suffering a broken humor filter.

[brentspeak]

41. Sorry if I went overboard

[MadHound]

17. Thanks, thanks for nothing

I recognize that you may have had good intentions with this post, but your wording of it, and the very fact that you posted it, threw the doors wide open for a nice round of Midwest bashing. I don't agree with the folks around here who bash the South, and lord knows I don't agree with bashing the Midwest, or any other reason for that matter.

And basing your opinion on what one person from the Midwest says is not really a good statistical sample. I realize that you weren't meaning to paint with a broad brush, but you did so anyway.

Thanks for the backhanded insult that you've opened this thread up to be, hope everybody gets their jollies off of it:eyes:

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MadHound]

22. Again, basing your opinion on what one person from Des Moines says to you

Isn't a very sound basis for making a judgement about a whole area. And frankly, look at this thread that you've spawned. You have people referring to others as racist, bigoted, ignorant, and uninformed, all being painted broadly to include everybody from the Midwest. Yes, such broad generalizations, especially coming from a supposedly much more enlightened West Coaster:eyes: does have a tendency to piss me off. And no, I'm not going to engage in gratuitous West Coast bashing because quite frankly such broad brush bullshit is beneath me.

Now then, if you can find some sort of hard evidence to back your ass up with, I'm willing to listen. But using anecdotal evidence based on what one person tells you in order to spawn a whole thread of Midwest bashing is quite frankly wrong. You may not have intended this, but hey, it happened. Perhaps next time you will have learned not to use such scanty, unsubstantiated evidence to go on a rant about.

[cboy4]

27. Oh please, who said anything about being more enlightened because I

live on the West Coast.

That's ridiculous.

Not as ridiculous, however, as your breathless posts about how everyone hates the Midwest. :eyes:

I was simply making a comment about a conversation I had with a friend.

And, again, MAYBE I"M FROM THE MIDWEST!!!

Stop suggesting I don't know what I'm talking about.

Also, what other people contribute to this thread is up to them. Don't blame me buddy.

[brentspeak]

31. My suggestion to you:

Don't start these kind of threads on DU again.

Thanks in advance,

Brentspeak

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[brentspeak]

25. Your wording doesn't make any sense. Your thread doesn't make sense.

I live in NJ. There were 1,670,003 people in this non-midwestern state who voted for Bush. There were 1,911,430 people who voted for Kerry. So Kerry won, but it was surprisingly close. Just like in a lot of other non-midwestern states.

Your entire flame-bait thesis of "all those cowardly midwesterner voters" falls flat because there's even more cowardly "blue state" voters who voted Bush.

[cboy4]

32. What are you talking about? I was using the word "coward" to describe

people who live in small town Midwest USA, who allow the talk of terra (by the Republicans) to scare them.

That is being a coward.

My point is people who live on farms in places like Des Moines should not be allowing the supposed threat of terrorism coming to their community factor into their decision to vote for a Republican.

That's ridiculous.

Can your New Jersey brain not compute this?

[brentspeak]

34. Your "point" is meaningless, worthless, unbecoming to these boards

Either contribute positively or don't contribute at all.

[izzybeans]

35. Living in small town Midwest USA teaches me that nearly everyone

here barely thinks of it. It's not fear that motivates them. It is a fictional solidarity with an America that never existed. There is little fear here. No one I have come across that is a wingnut talks of Al Qaida unless it is in reference to Iraq.

What you should be most worried about come election time is the militaristic culture being disseminated here and and everywhere they sell the bumper stickers; which is right in your own back yard. Infatuations with militarism, coupled with a patriotic fervor, that's what you should be dismayed by. It's prevalence varies by region, but it is nationwide.

I see no bomb shelters in my town and a farmer's fear of terrorism is a fear that things like the grain market will be disrupted. Damn hillbilly.

Then again I do walk around with my duct tape and plastic sheeting. But that's just in case Saddam drops a bomb on my chicken shack. I do hope my feudal lord comes for his pittance soon. I shalls be a waitin over yonder tendin' the sheep, if you know what I mean.

Rightwingers are safe. They have their little lord farquaad to protect them. That's what Rush says right? They have nothing to fear but what their a.m. radio will not inform them of. The round em' up hysterics have ended. It's all about the aftermath now.

[cboy4]

37. Well that's good to hear and an interesting

perspective! :)

[izzybeans]

39. Well I don't know if that is good or not. But the fear thing is either

fading or periodic. I was living in Jersey during 9/11 and when I visit now to this day I watch the planes heading out of Newark and wonder.

I worry more about an unexplained number of military style bumper stickers I see. It seems if someone on their friend's cousin's neighbor's girlfriend's side of the family is in the military then you they have a "Proud to know an American Soldier" sticker on their car. I have seen an American Flag sticker that had some sort of camouflage insignia on it on numerous occasions. It's the militarism within the civilian culture here that worries me most. The fourth of july is confused for veteran's and memorial day around here. I had to remind a few folks that this holiday was about all of us as citizens; free from the tyranny of a king. That's what independence day means. It has been coopted by the military in my region of the state.

[ACK]

38. You want to know what the real problem is? Can you handle the truth?

Ok, here I go. I am going to stir up shit here. I know it in fact.

But somewhere in the transfer of power from the old gaurd FDR/Truman Dems and the new liberals something happened. Two things happened in fact.

It is like so many of us college educated eastern Dems along with our hippy left coast brethern have forgotten how to fight and how to speak to the common man, the guy working the shit jobs out there in the real world beyond the beltways.

With our majorities in both houses we got fat and complacent as the Repukes put together their think tanks and their smear machines and honed their pointy knives to clean cutting sheen.

We had it all as Clinton came into office but at the same time it was all falling completely apart.

We dismissed knuckleheads like Limpballs forgetting to watch out for the fact the Republicans of all stripes were becoming really really good at manipulating the media. What the conservatives want the news to focus on they will focus on. Its to the point now with the fairness doctrine gone that essentially they own the media. Still, we just now have Air America and have begun to realize the importance of having figures out there pointing out our point of view.

How has this hurt us? Well, it is completely amazing to me that the Republican Party connects to the guy on the street better than we do even in many cases beyond the wedge issues.

Now, if we stop insulting the Midwest and the South (where despite rheoteric we lose in smaller margins in many cases than other Repub controlled areas) we can objectively look at what we can do to take back those areas of the country and make the 50 state strategy work in a real changing way.

Listen, I know its hard to come out of the ivory towers of hyperbole and bile and actually talk to the common man. I know it hurts because we are supposed to be the party of the common guy right? If they don't get it then fuck em all right? Now it does not help that our Democratic party has just begun to truly organize and begin behaving like an opposition party.

We have to do a couple of things:

1) Eliminate this naunced hand-wringing approach to basic platform issues.
Is this because the common man is just stupid? Am I insulting the common guy out in the street? No, I remember when Kerry intro'ed his education policy last election peppered with the speach of our enemy and all kinds of talk of "accountability". Even people lots of people right here on DU looked at that shit and said "WTF!?!" When politicos of your own party don't really understand fully your positions, then something is damn well wrong. Everyone knows we are pro-choice so don't dance around yes or no questions and just say what your damn position is.

2) We have to actually "lower" ourselves to explaining to the American people why we are right.
If we cannot speak to the working class and figure out how to express ourselves in a way that touches the guy busting his balls on the grill at Denny's then we are fucked. No, put the damn mouse down and go to goddamn bed.


3) Recruit the charasmatics and the common man candidates.
There are with very few exceptions since the advent of television into the political stage only two types of candidates that win national elections. Typically that candidate would have to be charasmatic or a common man. One or the other and perception is what matters. How they come off on camera. Yes, that does suck but that is the way it is. Clinton was a great charasmatic. Dubya despite his blue blood background plays up the common guy thing well though Carter won his election the first time as a common guy and really had that genuine vibe. Bush Sr is the only exception but come on we should have never put up Dukakis. We should have known better.


4) Stop sitting on the damn fence.
The DLC was correct in the sense we needed to moderate our image but that did NOT have to mean selling our complete soul off and becoming shadows of the beast. There are essentially 3 wimp issues we had to moderate on. Gun control, the death penalty and military spending. Oh and that sucks. Do not get me wrong but on the national stage those are the issues they used over and over to get us.

The damn DLC took all the wrong lessons from the Clinton era. Good old Bill Clinton won despite the fact he sat on the fence on some issues because he could talk to the people and was charasmatic.
So did the DLC begin recruiting charasmatic candidates to go out and explain our positions to the public? Nope they recruited legions of fence-sitting Republican-lite candidates and have lost continously.

But the deal is that everything else outside of the wimp issues was free game to get as liberal as we wanted to on. As I believe Mondale once said "the American people agree with us on 90% of all the issues."
Universal healthcare? Pro-choice? Cutting incentives, grants and breaks to coporations? Support for unions and teachers? Balancing the budget? Sound environmental policy? No use to moderate on those issues!!

Those are our damn issues. That is our heart and soul. You cannot sell out your damn base. And you have to believe enough to find candidates that can speak to the guy out there in the real world and convince them our the right and righteousness of our claims.

[The Magistrate]

42. Locking

Region-Bashing flame-bait.