Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

I saw Gov. Mark Warner speak today.

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 04:57 PM
Original message
I saw Gov. Mark Warner speak today.
I was fortunate to be invited to a meeting where Mark Warner was speaking. I live in NY, so it's the first time I have seen him in person. He spoke well. He's much better than he was on CSPAN a few months ago. It was a mix of stump speech and Q&A. He spoke about many issues from the war, to jobs, energy, health care, partisanship, the economy and much more. Here are some of the highlights as I remember them. I don't remember everything so don't assume he supports or opposes something I didn't include.

The war:
He said that the war was "a disaster" and we need to get out. He said that there are three steps to getting out and he doesn't think he (or anyone else he's heard) has the perfect plan.
1. Tell Iraq and the world we're not staying there permanently.
2. Get Iraq's neighbors, the EU, and the Arab league together to plan an exit for the US.
3. Something else which I forgot.

The economy, environment, energy.
We need to lead the world in energy innovation as we lead in IT/computing. We need to dump our banker, China by taking proactive measures.

Health care
Health care is a moral and competitiveness issue. We need to move to a more European style universal system.

Taxes
We need a more progressive tax system. Repeal the Bush tax "cuts." Change the dialog about taxes. Americans feel that they may someday be rich and Dems pushing for higher taxes on the rich are mostly missing this. The way to do this is...
Cut spending, make gov't more efficient.
Change the tax code.
Work on the revenue end of taxes.

Democratic Party/Campaigns
Stop running candidates that can only win 16-17 states.
He's not going to twist himself into a pretzel to meet everyone's checklist on Democratic dogma.

Running for President.
He hasn't decided yet, but obviously he's interested.

My take:
I thought Warner spoke well. The NYT's and others call him the anti-Hillary. I can understand why they say that. He's an executive that was extremely successful at governing with a venomous republican house of delegates. He left office with a 75%+ approval rating which is unprecedented. Warner will be a compelling candidate. He speaks well. He has experience. He says a lot of the right things, and unlike most Senators, he's backed them up with actions.

Anyway, these are my thoughts. I'll answer anything I can.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
kstewart33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I'm glad you were impressed with him.
I'm interested in him but have not seen him speak. We need an anti-Hillary candidate.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dtotire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
40. Video of Warner's Speech
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
2. Was Mudcat there?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I don't know?
:shrug:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:10 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Dave "Mudcat" Saunders and Steve Jarding are gonna win the South
Edited on Wed Sep-13-06 05:16 PM by MrCoffee
good solid Dem strategists. http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0RMQ/is_38_10/ai_n15392521/pg_7

they ran Warner's gubernatorial campaign
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I didn't notice them
so I don't know.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Mudcat and Jarding
Mudcat is currently working with Edwards (he has been for several years) and Jarding posting at Kos, said that he will not be working for Warner in 08.

I don't think this is personal, just politics.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
shortcake Donating Member (98 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
24. I thought they were both
working for Webb. Sorry to hear they won't be working for Warner in 08. That's why I was interested in him.

Foxes in the Henhouse.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MrCoffee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:18 PM
Response to Reply #24
37. i could have sworn Jarding was working for Warner. drag.
Foxes is my new fave book. Until Coupland's latest gets shuttled to me by the library, anyway.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DeepModem Mom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you for a valuable report, Bleachers! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Sep-13-06 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. In a world where media aired the news and voting machines aren't rigged,
both Gore and Kerry would have far more than 17 states.

So, according to Warner, there was no collapsed Dem party infrastructure in a majority of states, nah....no problems there..... it was only the candidate who couldn't win.

Let's not worry about election fraud tactics that Republicans spend their 4yrs between elections perfecting, the problem is the candidate.

Face it Warner. Both Gore and Kerry won their elections - it was a collapsed Dem infrastructure in crucial states that made sure neither could their votes counted honestly. And the same would have happened to you under Terry McAuliffe's watch.

Dean has to work his ass off 24/7 to rebuild the infrastructure left to collapse in so many states since 1997.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
:kick: Because I think this is interesting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clark2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
10. They're both DLC. How can he be the anti-Hillary?
Edited on Thu Sep-14-06 01:51 PM by Clark2008
They're cut from the same cloth and believe in the same triangulations. The only difference is he's male. He's not even from the South and neither is Hillary.

The media is so dumb.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Well..
Shrub isn't from Texas, and yet the media calls him a "cowboy"

Politically, it won't matter to voters where Warner was born (Indiana) - but that he had one of the highest approval ratings as governor in Virginia's history. I'll bet anything he would've run again if VA laws allowed it..

He's wracking in the big bucks on the campaign trail breaking numerous $$$ in both parties..


I think he'll do pretty well because he, like General Clark, attract voters from all over the political spectrum.

As co-founder of Nextel, he's even highly popular with Nascar fans. He's popular with fiscal conservatives in Virginia and yet Democrats and Independents like him as well.

I still think that if he teamed up with General Clark - what a ticket. You'd have both foreign and domestic matters covered!!

I'll definitely be paying attention to him once the campaigning and debates begin! Who knows.. he may fade off into the sunset, or he may catch on.

Right now though.. he's not even on the radar as far as the media or most Americans are concerned.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Warner and Clark is a sick ticket.
What Republican VP candidate can argue with Clark on military stuff? Clark was a disappointment in he debates a few years ago, but he improved and continues to. Clark learned the person to person politicking really fast. I kind of hope he skips 2008 if he knows he will be someones VP.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. sick ticket?


Q: "What Republican VP candidate can argue with Clark on military stuff?"

A: = NONE of em?? :shrug:

I think my chart shows Warner as the VP doesn't it?

Ah, don't worry Bleachers.. we're just speculating (mixing and matching) possibilites this far out.
- - - Who knows will will run in the end?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. lol
I was just combining them. I agree. It is too far out. But after November, the bombs will fly. I am apprehensive and excited about it all at the same time. It's going to be a difficult process, but hopefully it will be a sign of a new beginning for this country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
snowbear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:52 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. I know Bleachers...
And that's why I love you..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. wow
I love you too. :loveya:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #14
26. Warner has a better chance to win than anyone of those boring senators
We have elected more Governors to the Whitehouse and i don't think these senators make good candidates. i predict a current Governor is going to get in this campaign.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. How many Governors have won the White House?
and how many Generals?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
39. But even the debates were skewed.
Personally, I didn't think that Clark had fared as badly as remembered in the debates.

Here's an interest archived thread dated 11/25/03 in reference to one of the debates......the media manipulation and a premonition by me that Howard Dean would be done in by the media when convenient.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=774993
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. There's a lot of name calling in politics.
You say triangulations, others will say leadership. He is a rising star in the party because of his accomplishments, not his words. Also Virginia is considered a southern state.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ACK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
12. As someone from VA I am very interested to hear what people think
On one hand he was a governor. That is good for electability plus he has no long ass Senate record to put under the microscope.

He was popular with the general good-ol-boys without alienating the base and turning his back on them.

But on the other hand, I do realize he is not as uber-liberal as some here probably would like.

Considering that it is good to hear him talk of a more progressive tax system and health care and his ideas on the war.

Did he mention anything about supporting teachers and unions?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-14-06 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. He talked about unions briefly
and I don't remember what he said. It was nothing shocking for a Dem. I don't remember him talking about teachers.

I think he can put on a good show. He's really good at speaking to people. He's not detached or aloof like some wealthy long time politicians.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Awsi Dooger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 05:09 AM
Response to Reply #12
21. I think we should nominate him
Then the other side can scramble with desperate hatred for eight years.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ACK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. He is a good guy - think he has the populist touch
I still feel a tad conflicted afraid if he does well the leftists will trip because I know deep in my heart he is not as left as a lot of folks want.

But still he just really seems to be both a good guy reminds me of Clinton alot except a little more down to earth and a tad less slick if that makes any sense at all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Rowdyboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
20. Thank you for a really cool, first hand report...I really like Warner but
deep down, Wes Clark owns my heart. In the end, I vote Democrat, regardless of the nominee.

Isn't it nice as a Democrat to be blessed with a plethora of excellent candidates so that we progressives can bicker and bitch yet still all manage to somehow all represent basically the same principles. Mostly, we here at DU disagree on strategy and tactics. Our goals are the same.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigdarryl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. Clark's a joke he proved that last election and the media made him out
to be a total fool. he can't campaign
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. You shouldn't watch cartoons
and think its news. Clark is a genuine hero, diplomat, and national security expert. He is also highly sought by Democratic candidates to campaign with them this cycle. Your characterization is boorish and lacks insight.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. And what do you base this on? Please source your "opinion"....
cause my opinion is that Clark campaigned as well as many other more seasoned campaigners, and bested many of them!

Clark came in a year later than all of the rest of the crew, had never ran a campaign in his life, was not a politician, and most importantly did not contest Iowa, and yet managed to best John Edwards (who took 2nd place in Iowa--and from that point on had the Media blowing at his backside with superlatives) in New Hampshire and beat Dean's fundraising efforts in the critical primary month of January 2004.

Clark WITHOUT media asskisses went on to beat Edwards in New Mexico, Arizona, North Dakota and Oklahoma.....while Edwards only bested Clark in 3 contests that Mini Tuesda -- Delaware, South Carolina (Edwards' birth state) and Missouri. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini-Tuesday

Of course, John Kerry beat both men....except for in Oklahoma, where Clark won....and in South Carolina, where Edwards won.

Even with Clark's good showing on Mini Tuesday, the pundits decided to ignore him (see this article...written on Mini Tuesday after the results....) http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2004/02/04/primaries/index.html

Clark dropped out BECAUSE HE IS NO FOOL AND WASN'T RUNNING FOR VP....and unlike some, once it was understood that John Kerry had it all wrapped up, Clark had no personal need to continue to collect donations from his supporters only to waste those precious resources for naught.

So it is my researched opinion that Clark did some great campaigning considering the obstacle of getting through to voters without a full blown press who were too busy with promoting the Iowa winners till the end anyways.

Here's some back up from a "real" journalist....and I have more, if needed.


Primary Colors
By Elizabeth Drew

At a huge rally outside Manchester on Saturday afternoon, January 17, he (Clark) stirred up more emotion than I have seen since Robert F. Kennedy addressed large crowds. Clark's stump speech was largely about values. He distinguished genuine patriotism—a commitment to American traditions of civil liberties and vigorous dissent— from fake patriotism—the indifference to rights and intolerance of dissent that characterize the Bush administration. He strongly criticized the President for not taking effective measures to prevent the attacks on September 11, 2001, even after Bush had received a warning about a plan for terrorists to hijack American planes, and for "lying us into an unnecessary war." He talked of Bush "prancing around the deck of an aircraft carrier," prematurely declaring an end to "major hostilities" in Iraq. His basic message was that "a higher standard of leadership" is needed in the US.

The Bush administration for a while took the threat of Clark's candidacy seriously, and tried to undermine him by spreading the charge that he had been inconsistent in his opposition to the Iraq war. This was unfair. He maintained the position of his testimony to the House Armed Services Committee on September 26, 2002, that a congressional resolution "need not, at this point, authorize the use of force" and that
if efforts to resolve the problem by using the United Nations fail ...then we need to form the broadest possible coalition, including our NATO allies...if we're going to have to bring forces to bear.

The press—some reporters encouraged by the Bush administration— also attacked him for not distancing himself from the left-wing humorist Michael Moore, who, in a funny introduction of Clark at a rally, called George W. Bush a "deserter." Moore was obviously joking, as he made clear in a chat with some reporters afterward, saying also that he respected people who tried to avoid service in Vietnam. Perhaps because of Moore's comment, whether Bush reported for duty in the Alabama National Guard has become a major issue again, though it was generally ignored in 2000. Bush, for his part, recently acknowledged that he was allowed to leave the National Guard eight months before his term expired: "Well, I was going to Harvard Business School and worked it out with the military."

Some reporters concluded that Moore was serious, and this set off Clark's largest crisis in New Hampshire, on the weekend before the primary. Clark said in a press conference after the rally, and in the debate in New Hampshire on January 22, that he wasn't going to tell anyone what form their dissent should take. This is a fundamental principle for Clark, one that he defended even before he entered the race. Yet his response was widely seen to have been a mistake. He said the next day that he wouldn't have "used those words," but it was too late. This episode damaged Clark in New Hampshire and elsewhere, though he managed to come in third, just a few hundred votes ahead of Edwards. (Contrary to many reports, Clark fully expected Kerry to win in Iowa.)

Kerry and Dean both had advantages in New Hampshire, since they are from neighboring states; the only surprise was that Dean came in such a distant second—26.4 percent to Kerry's 38.4 percent. In the seven states that voted on February 3, Kerry won five and Edwards won South Carolina (where he was born, and lived for ten years), while Clark narrowly won Oklahoma and came in second in Arizona, New Mexico, and North Dakota, a respectable showing, but one that was largely written off by the press, which had by then practically anointed Kerry. Kerry easily carried Michigan and Washington State on Saturday, February 7, and won Tennessee and Virginia by large margins on February 10. Edwards came in a distant second in both states, and Clark came in third and withdrew from the race the next day.
snip
The race was declared "over" so many times, and so many outcomes were declared "inevitable," that it sometimes seemed as if the voters were irrelevant. Reporters and pundits kept telling us what was going to happen rather than explaining what's happened and trying to analyze why. Early in 2003, The New York Times announced that John Kerry was the "front-runner." This turned out to have been prescient, but at the time it was written it was hard to discern how there could be a front-runner a year and a half before anyone had voted, and months before there was an opportunity to observe candidates and hear their plans.

Before Christmas, countless pundits and reporters told us that Howard Dean had the nomination sewed up—again before anyone had voted. If Dean won Iowa and New Hampshire, we were told, "it's over"; some commentators and reporters ventured further, stating that if Dean won Iowa, that would suffice. Consider, they said, the fearsome power of the unions in Iowa, who were backing Dean along with Dick Gephardt. Then Gephardt was said to be winning the nomination, and Kerry was "coming apart"—all before anything real had happened. Clark, a man with admirable qualities —and at times a very good candidate—received, on the whole, negative treatment in the press.<2> That much of the press was wrong in predicting Dean's "inevitability" apparently gave them no pause in making further predictions.

Such journalism is not only a waste of time but can seriously distort the electoral process. Forecasts by the press that a certain candidate will win may produce contributions, volunteers, and energy (as with the early endorsement of Dean by labor unions)— and the reverse is also the case. That they mislead the public seems not to matter. The entire nominating and election processes need to be reconsidered by the political parties and the press. The voters deserve to be better served by both the politicians and by journalists; otherwise the principle of democratic nomination and election through informed choice is made a mockery.
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/16965






Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clarkansas Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
23. A Warner/ Clark ticket would be great
I think those two balance eachother out really well: popular governor with a popular military leader. They would be able to win Arkansas and Virginia, which are not as red as many people think. If they kept all the Kerry states, they would win.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 11:22 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. Agree, but in reverse....
The issues for the future Commander in Chief are going to be central on many a voters mind (because the GOP will ensure of that) in 08 as they are in 06....and Clark's got the expertise in spade...something that can't be denied.

They GOP won't be able to start with that Weak on defense bullshit that seems to work so well come election season. An Osama Tape won't do them a bit of good with Clark heading that ticket.

Who knows what the GOP will dig up on Warner? :shrug:....in reference to Clark, we already know, and he will be prepared.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Parisle Donating Member (849 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. Clark - Warner
---- Wes Clark has already said that he would not be a VP candidate on any ticket,... and Warner, as a much younger initiate into national politics, could benefit from the Number 2 spot on the ticket,... especially when they win. I've seen Warner speak and answer unrehearsed questions, too,... and he is indeed quite a speaker. Bringing Virginia back into the democratic fold would count for a lot,....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. Warner in a cabinet role would be great.
Second in command with Warner's immense national security deficits is not heartwarming. Besides, it always cracks me up that people think Clark should buttress their weak political chops on national security and Clark is having none of that. ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clarkansas Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. Which 08 hopefuls don't have
immense national security deficits?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dtotire Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Mark Warner Video
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #32
36. You've got it. For this time in our history......
that is what makes Wes Clark a logical candidate......

and why McCain and Giluani, who are perceived as strong in this area (but aren't really) are leading the Republican pack at the moment.

and Because National Security is perceived as a Democratic weakness yet is the issue polling the highest in many voter polls...and was a key issue that allowed the GOP to win 2002, 2004 and they are trying hard in 2006 and there are no assurances that they won't succeed.

and because we are fighting two wars....have the tom-toms rethoric beating for another....see Osama tapes just about anytime the GOP needs them.....and Bush has already stated that Iraq will be for the next President to deal with.....


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Pithy Cherub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. The first part of your screen name - CLARK!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Clarkansas Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-15-06 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. They will go the "inexperienced" route with Clark
and I even hear that mentioned on DU in reference to Clark. I don't think it would stick though, as many people are tired of the career politicians.

As for Warner, he is a very popular governor, and that is something that the GOP can't take away. They will be able to throw mud this or that, but the bottom line is that a large majority of Virgina, Democrats and Republicans alike, thought he was a good governor.

And when I said I liked Warner/Clark, I meant Clark/Warner as well. :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC