The real "War on Terror" is already lost.

[AJ9000]

Much more significant than what's happening in Iraq, is what is happening in Afghanistan, and what just happened in Pakistan.

The recent news that Al Qaeda will have a safe haven in Pakistan was truly a turning point.

Combine that with the Talibans' continued resiliency in Afghanistan, and it's apparent that winning the real "war on terror" in Afghanistan is a long-shot at best.

In theory, we could bring in more equipment and troops into Afghanistan. But that would be very difficult because of all the military resources that have been put into Iraq. (And as everyone knows, that's not going very well either.)

So while high-profile politicians debate whether we can win in Iraq, it's becoming apparent that the war with our true enemies in Afghanistan has already been lost for two reasons:

1. The Bush administration squandered the opportunity to hit Al Qaeda and the Taliban and hard and fast immediately after 9/11, choosing instead to hold back, or redirect much-needed military resources for use in an unnecessary war with Iraq.

2. The Bush administration made decisions that created an environment in which severe abuses of Muslim peoples could occur. "The barbaric cruelty of the Americans" (to quote an Afghan rebel) that resulted, has caused a resurgence in popular support for the Taliban that is allowing them to operate more effectively in the region.

These facts might make for useful talking points for Democrats, and they have the added benefit of being true.

At any rate, the idea that we can defeat Al Qaeda and the Taliban by military means alone is now obsolete.

[pinto]

1. I've always thought that it *was* a law enforcement issue,

and rooted from the sidelines for someone to just say that up front. It may be a naive concept in the current political climate, but I still think that. You follow the money, follow the contacts, backtrack the movements, listen and listen again, share info among other law enforcement agencies, and move in when appropriate. It's not flashy, not always successful, but Geez, I never wanted to see us engaged in a unilateral global crusade.

[AJ9000]

2. I think that would have been the better way to go myself.

It's obvious now that the path we did choose is a failure.

The only question now is how long it will take Americans to realize it, and whether or not many will hold the Bush administration accountable for it in 2006.

[pinto]

3. Yeah. The loss of Anbar in Iraq (per US military info), the loss of

Afghanistan outside of Kabul (per numerous sources) has got to sink in somewhere.

Daily casualty reports, intimidation and murder of Iraq politicians, the bumper poppy crop in Afghanistan, Musharraf's dance with the Taliban...the list goes on.

To wit, I read today that Iraq and Iran have plans to sign an oil production/refinement mutual agreement. To be honest, it makes sense. Benefits both countries and fits the local resource picture.

We're mired up to our gonads in military action, spent billions on private contract scams, and I don't see a way out of it as long as we turn a blind eye to the local realities, civilian observer that I am. Seems Bushco's gambling on a short term turnaround or an outright pass, as he implied when he said future Presidents would have to deal with the situation.

It's a devastating situation for American foreign policy, imo, which appears in tatters.

[vickitulsa]

4. That's pretty much how I see it.

Whether treating the terrorism problem as a law enforcement issue is the "right" way to handle it or not, it has always seemed fairly obvious to me that trying to use traditional style military practices -- even with a lot of modern tweaking to the playbook -- was sheer folly.

It's a very sad state of affairs now, this far into the nightmare of military INexpertise that marks this administration. I have never understood how so many of the brass have stood by the Chimperor and endorsed the Darth Cheney invasion/occupation and takeover (or at least makeover) of the ME plan. Cheney, Rummy, the Chimp -- NONE of them ever saw combat or has any military savvy or experience to speak of. Chimp's pretense that he does is laughable.

Of all those I can never forgive for this outrageous policy plan and military action followthrough that has clearly been nothing but a colossal FAILURE in every way, it may be Colin Powell and the many other generals who have earned a place at the top of my list.

I guess that's what happens when an administration fires or forces into early retirement all the generals and other brass who know the most about war, combat, and aggressive incursions into inhospitable foreign soil, and who disagree strenuously with this pResident's warplanning.

It's the generals and others who stayed and did not protest the plans but willingly obeyed all orders coming out of this White House that have dismayed, angered, and befuddled me all along.

[eccles12]

5. Musharaff is more frightened than he has ever been ...he can see the

handwriting on the wall and it's writing his name. Right now, he should be pissed at the US and Bush for squandering all those resources in an illegal invasion of Iraq. Iraq is the new training ground for insurgents all over and they coming back to home states with new and more lethal tactics. It will only take Musharaff's military to turn and the ball game is over. If the suicide bombings increase in Pakistan, this will push them over the edge and the people will blame Musrhaff's collaboration with the US and they will turn on him.