why does Keith want America to forgive Bush?

[grasswire]

That mention at the end of his 9-11 commentary seemed jarring. "May America forgive you."

No. A thousand times no.

May America hold Bush responsible under the law, yes. But forgive? Never. Never. Never. Not Bush, not those in league with him.

Forgiving is what allowed those who nearly brought about a military coup against FDR to stuff it down the memory hole. Forgiving is why the House Managers who attacked the Clintons are gainfully employed today. Forgiving is why "THEY" got away with too many crimes of treason.

Never, Keith, never. Don't ask us to do so.

You see, you might be next on their list of expendables. And we can't lose you.

[gully]

1. Oh for F sakes, let it rest people.

:eyes:

It's a closing statement to Bush, not a suggestion that anyone "forgive" anyone.

[babylonsister]

2. He didn't mean it; I took his words to mean that dimson

is not forgiveable, and a higher power might sort it out, but we won't.
In my very humble opinion!

[Duer 157099]

3. Now now, you have to "interpret" Keith.

He was being diplomatic. When I saw those words, my brain automatically translated it to: "May you burn in hell for eternity"

[babylonsister]

4. LOL! You've got it! nt

[Harry Monroe]

5. I believe it is in a similar vein to the phrase...

..."May God have mercy on your soul!!"

[Richard D]

12. My thought exactly.

[The Deacon]

6. No,

IMHO, Keith meant exactly what he said. Remember, Keith is a man, perhaps one of the last left with a public pulpit, who understands just what a monument to the best instincts of the human mind this country could have been, and perhaps one of the few of us left who can still view that promise through the rancor this PERSON in the White House has instilled in all of us.

[neoblues]

7. It wasn't a request... it was a pronouncement.

Much akin to "and may God have mercy on your soul" (for example, as when said at the eulogy for a very bad and unrepentant man who is unavoidably, inevitably destined for an eternity in Hades--and everyone knows that God will not be having mercy on his soul)(it is a rather interesting behavior, the making of such pronouncements--when it's obviously, irreversibly in vain--as in won't be happening, ever... pretty cool rhetorical device of some sort).

[Richard D]

13. It's also what was said . . .

. . . before executions.

[abluelady]

8. Forgiveness is not about the Sinner

We are "supposed" to forgive so we can move forward. Forgiving doesn't mean condoning or forgetting; it is just a way for us to stop obsessing about a wrong that was done to us. Perhaps that is where Keith is coming from.

[Mist]

15. to forgive means "to give up anger against" -nope, I won't be able to. nt

[Bluerthanblue]

19. "anger is the weapon we hold by the blade"

actually the word he used was 'temper'- but it is interchangable- James Barry

Anger held onto turns into bitterness, and bitterness eats away at you- it doesn't do shit to bush- but it will rot you away as sure as acid- its not only ok to feel angry its RIGHT and normal- but to hold onto it spitefully will kill you.

It doesn't absolve bush- it frees YOU. but you'll have to discover that for yourself- as will all of us.

[abluelady]

22. You Said That So Well

Thanks.

[wtmusic]

9. Makes no sense to me too.

Forgive, as in the pseudo-Christian act of letting someone off the hook? Never.

[Human Torch]

10. It was a polite way of saying "You're screwed, Junior"...

...you know, the old "May God have mercy on your soul" with the implication behind it that "no one else will".

KO didn't ask us to forgive him, so we can all go back to more important things, like this:

http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=1326

Paris Hilton was the victim of a brilliant practical joke set up by Sir Richard Branson, the billionaire founder of the Virgin Group. It happened at the 21th birthday of Richards son, an elaborate bash with "Alice in Wonderland" as a theme and England's finest on the guest list. Paris made it known she planned to go dressed as Alice, thus ensuring she would be the center of attention and not that son of a bitch who the party was actually in honor of. So Branson secretly ordered all 60 of the waitresses for the party to dress as Alice as well. Branson even pretended he didn't recognize Paris and asked her to get him a drink. A source said:

"It was one hell of a party. Paris found herself looking more like Tweedledum as she was surrounded by dozens of other Alices."

:evilgrin:

:patriot:

[gratuitous]

11. A curse in pretty clothing

Mrs. gratuitous works with a Russian woman, and the other day she was involved in an animated telephone discussion in Russian. Just before ringing off, she said something rather forceful and hung up noisily. Mrs. gratuitous asked her what she had said, it sounded so severe. Co-worker sort of blushed, and explained that it was a Russian blessing that doubled as a curse: "May you enjoy good health!" Depending on the context, it's either nice or not so nice. Same with "May America forgive you," or "May God have mercy on your soul." The implication being that I don't forgive you or have much mercy for your soul.

[bluedog]

14. it was just sarcasm n/t

[LittleClarkie]

16. It's like saying "May God have mercy on your soul" It's the opposite of

what you are taking it to mean. It's just a way of saying how heinous KO thinks Bush is, though in a somewhat "high and mighty" fashion. Imagine looking someone in the eye and saying "May God forgive you for all the things you done" implying "because I can't".

In that situation, do you REALLY think that you'd REALLY be saying was that you thought people should forgive the person you were talking too?

Kinda know what I mean?

[Bluerthanblue]

17. he's a very wise man- and he shows it by

ending with such a VALUABLE truth-

"Not forgiving"- is the path America is on in Iraq, Afghanistan.- NOT forgiing is the path that made it possible for 19men to crash 3 aircraft into buildings 5yrs ago yesterday-

Forgiveness is the gift we give OURSELVES- it means not allowing our base, crude "you did it to me, so I am going to step into the shit and do it right back to you" attitude to rule us.

Keith O. is a VERY intellegent, wise man, he proves it with this statement- Otherwise all 'we' are is the flip side of bush, or bin laden or all those who do things we find dispicable-

"I let no man drag me down so low as to make me hate him."

Booker T. Washington

[Rainbowreflect]

18. I agree with you.

I will never forget what has been done by this administration, but I will try & forgive. Hate only begets hate and I want to do my part to end the cycle of hate.

[Bluerthanblue]

20. thank you...

.. for speaking up. It's begining to feel very cold in this world- and lonely, but i'd sooner die than become a monster- i have to believe at heart most people really feel this way,but that pain is blinding them from their own truth...

because who would want to live in a world where hate always wins out?

not i

thanks again,
blu

[Rainbowreflect]

24. I'll be the first to admit that I have trouble following my own beliefs,

but I do try. I believe that forgiveness does much more for one who forgives, than the one forgiven. And at the same time makes the world a better place.
I would recommend Desmond Tutu's "No Future Without Forgiveness". It is an amazing book about South Africa's Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
Forgiveness is not about forgetting or telling someone that their actions are okay, it is about letting go and moving forward.

[Bluerthanblue]

31. thank you, I'm

going to try and get a hold of a copy. I respect Mr Tutu very much. And I'd like to learn more.

I agree with you, forgiveness is something that benefits the giver to a very profound degree. Sometimes it doesn't come 'quickly' or easily, but in my own experience, it is FAR more life affirming and healing than bearing an ongoing hatred.
We waste far too much life carrying burdens that are weighed down even more with hatred and bitterness. No one benefits from that. It only makes the wounds fester. letting the obsession with those who have wronged us go, IS the only way we can move ahead. Even if ahead is baby-steps.

Thanks again-
peace,
blu

[Ignis]

23. Beautiful post. Thank you!

Forgive...but prosecute. :)

[Bluerthanblue]

32. thank You- we've got the same perspective-

concequences aren't fun- but we all have to face them.

peace,
blu

[grasswire]

26. you are making a false equation

You assume that holding someone responsible for his/her actions is the same as exacting revenge. That is not the case, especially when there is a Constitutional remedy for a president who abuses his power. There is no "stepping in the shit" inherent in the processes set forward by our founding fathers. Nor is there "stepping in the shit" in putting Bush and his co-conspirators on notice that they have erred in ways so big, so tragic, so evil that Americans will forever remember them as heinous bad actors.

You see, the only way to get these people (who have been attacking the Constitution for decades now) to stop is to make them feel some pain. They need to be put on notice that when the people get enough power to hold them accountable, they will experience lawful, Constitutional punishment.

If you don't have the stomach for holding them accountable, then step aside. The citizenry wants them in the dock of the court, sweating, with the certainty of lawful, Consitutional punishment on their minds.

[Bluerthanblue]

30. no YOU are making an incorrect

correlation.
Forgiveness doesn't mean not having to face the consequences- NOT AT ALL- forgiveness is not lowering yourself to the same depths as the person who has wronged you- If a person needlessly kills someone I love, and I desire to 'do the same' back to them, then I'm NO BETTER. Now, instead of their being one dead body, there are 2, and now, those who love the person I just killed in revenge can use my killing to 'justify' killing me, and then my friends can do the same, and we all spiral down into the hell we live in today.

However, the person who needlessly killed someone I love has demonstrated they are incapable of living without tight boundaries around them, and have forfeited their right to live freely. Until they come to understand that killing is not an option- that they have violated society's ability to trust them to live responsibly, they can and should be restrained from repeating the same actions on others. It is only fair to society, AND the murderer. Yes, it costs the 'victims'- and no there isn't the satisfaction of 'blood vengeance'- but that is what civilization is supposed to be all about. Isn't it???

I'm all for holding bush and SEVERAL others accountable for the wrongs they have done to thousands of people- Americans citizens and foreigners alike. But if an action is wrong- it is WRONG.
Hate isn't going to cancel out hate.

If you mix acid, with acid, you only get more acid. If you mix acid with base, you neutralize the acid to a more Benign substance. And you may need to keep that acid in a labeled container until you are sure no one will be harmed by it, or can find a way to neutralize the danger of having others exposed to it.

Forgiveness isn't getting off scot free. I forgave someone who did me grievous harm. But they still had to face the consequences of their actions- And their life will never be the same, as mine isn't. But I am also grateful that I don't have to feel regrets for doing to them, (or allowing others to do) what brought me great suffering and pain. Revenge isn't sweet. its poison.

peace,
blu

[Ninja Jordan]

21. Let's nitpick and bitch about it!

:eyes:

[Posteritatis]

25. But but but it didn't mesh with my ideas in every particular!

He must be a Republican! Or something!

[Bluerthanblue]

33. personally, I think its far more

than 'nit-picking'.

Its what means the difference between being simply more of the problem- or part of the solution.

And 'forgiveness' is the crux of much of Keith's post. The bush cabal is into "giving it back to 'them' and then some- never forgive, never forget, spend our future, and the un tolled blood of many, (except those who hold onto the hate) meeting out revenge". Mindset.

Haven't we all seen where this leads????

I for one, want out of this handbasket- and that is what I hear Keith O saying eloquently as well.

peace,
blu

[windbreeze]

27. I took that to mean....

not that KO actually wanted anyone to forgive him....but that * could be positive it would NEVER happen....
windbreeze

[blondeatlast]

28. ...BECAUSE GOD WON'T. (Pardon the caps) The unspoken part is

always implied. It's a polite way to say you are going to hell and the speaker isn't terribly concerned about it.

I've heard from my Irsih/Welsh ancestors many times.

Language matters, and so does a knowledge of our native tongues.

[annabanana]

29. Keith's unspoken coda = "Because I can't ".. . . . . . n/t

[Spirochete]

34. I figured he meant

that if * wasn't such a subhuman freak, he would be begging America for forgiveness for all he's done to it already.