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FDR, JFK, and St. Ronnie all did it. Is GWB doing it too?

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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 06:55 PM
Original message
FDR, JFK, and St. Ronnie all did it. Is GWB doing it too?
The worst kept Washington secret during the Great Depression and World War II was FDR's physical difficulties. But he kept up appearances as best he could. Carefully controlled, physically assisted approaches to podia. Painful standing on leg braces. Ever seated in an open car, cheerily waving to the crowds. Much of the country knew of FDR's polio, but respectfully averted their eyes at the approriate time to keep alive the myth of the vital leader so beloved by the nation.

And so it was with JFK. Wracked with constant pain from Addison's Disease and chronic spine/back issues, his image of vital health was a large part of the myth of the man, even in life. Rumored from time to time, his health issues were never allowed to be more than quiet, whispered speculation. By sharp management of his daily rythyms of living, his real condition was kept from a public who adored the man almost as much as they adored the image of the man.

Later, in his second term, still seen as the vital woodchooper, the eternal optimisim of Ronald Reagan was skillfully made more real than the fact that his mind was wasting from the early onset effects of dementia. We may never know exactly how incapacitated he really was, given the fierce protectivess of the Lioness Nancy. She, more than anyone, worked diligently from the start to protect her husband from the knowledge of the nation. To her credit, she more than admirably stood at and by his side until his death, many years after leaving office.

Which brings me to our current president. Rumors of all manner of malady have swirled around him for quite some time. Some speculate it is the result of the first half of his life spent in a close relationship with all manner of intoxicants. Some speculate a series of minor strokes that, collectively, have given us the man we see today.

There's no doubt that he has always been inarticulate. But that's hardly the issue. One need only compare the many video clips of George the team owner or George the Governor, or even George the candidate, to the George we see today to know that he is much more seemingly inarticulate - if not outright brain addled - than he was just six scant years ago.

Just tonight, watching him in closeup doing an interview with NBC news anchor Brian Williams, there was a very obvious speech dysfunction. Not so much the pattern of a brain addled man, but of one who has, indeed, suffered some sort of stroke or is afflicted by some unnamed palsy. The decided droop to the left side of his mouth is the most obvious sign. This, in turn, seems to impact his ability to form and annunciate words. Is the toungue also involved? The jaw?

While Roosevelt and Kennedy hid, with various degrees of success, their maladies, the country was never in peril. Both men were able to lead with wisdom and sagacity.

With Reagan, it can be said fairly that we don't know for sure exactly who was making the decisions. We can't say with any certainty how safe was the country. The President was, indeed and in fact, incapacitated in the closing days of his presidency.

And what of George Bush? Questions need to be asked and answered. The man, it can be said, is suffering from something. And as a nation, we have every right to know.
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maxsolomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:00 PM
Response to Original message
1. sociopathic narcissism
his body is manifesting the guilt his hubris won't allow him to feel.
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Jed Dilligan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Whatever he suffers from,
we suffer more from it!
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Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
3. C-Span reruns of Bush-Richards debate really show the difference
He is MUCH more articulate with much less of a southern accent.

I think, perhaps, he's just more of a fake now.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. That's just what I said to my husband tonight while watching him talk
to Brian Williams. He sure was pouring in the Southern accent. I guess he's pretended so long he really thinks he's a Southerner.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #3
15. Narcissists are like actors
They have totally contrived personas, and they overexaggerate and sometimes falter dramatically with stress.

Bush is in a position to benefit from this. He is probably well aware of that. Keep in mind, he has never had to take responsibility for this presidency as he has clearly been too inept to have conducted it.

If people speculate "illness" some conventional wisdom to be remembered:
He has never been president in the first place- Dick Cheney and Karl Rove aka Bushes Brain have been running this presidency all along.

The sad conclusion to which we seem to be led is:
Since he has only been a front man who is now suffering an illness as a result of that stress and sacrifice-- cut the guy a break he hasn't been responsible for this mess you can't very well start coming down on this good xtian when he's sick.

IOW: Attributing his unusual behaviors to illness or "suffering" will likely backfire.
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. To think something could 'backfire' ......
..... presupposes some strategic intent.

I seriously do think the guy has some malady that's being hidden from the country. If he were the janitor and I saw him as he is these days, I;d still think he had a malady.
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. My point was
That a presumption of a malady will backfire because the belief that he should be held responsibile for his presidency is likely to be challenged when people feel sympathy.
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NYCGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. I'm an actor and I'm offended by that. NT
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loyalsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
25. Let me explain myself
What I meant was that he is presenting contrived charicatures in a purposeful way as actors do.
It takes more effort than simply behaving naturally. He may use elements of his own personality and exaggerate them for example, carelessnes, misprounounced words, etc. But there are other things that he has to work very hard at trying to surpress. He is hostile and angry and arrogant, and those are things has to surpress. He is probably of the belief that everyone should be grateful to him. He's a true believer in the "war on terror" and he is most definitely "working hard" to try to sell it. Keep in mind he has never had to do that before. He is used to people going along with what he wants.
He hates criticism and people are beginning to abandon him. He is going to have to work that much harder to keep a lid on that arrogance and hostility.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. A minor detail, but I think Kennedy was far more impaired by
vaious drugs, (appropriately) prescribed or otherwise, than we ever knew. Ever hear of Dr. Feelgood? And I think his drug-induced recklessness nearly got us all killed during the Cuban missile crisis.

That said, I dunno about Bush. I must admit to having been quite impressed by Miller's analysis of his verbal facility/near-aphasia as a function of topic in the Dyslexicon. I don't know what else might be going on with him.
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
6. As long as he can stand trial when the time comes
and understand why he is convicted and just how much he is hated by the whole world.

I know I should show more mercy. I may in time. But frankly, after so many hundreds of thousands of deaths, I don't give a damn about him or his suffering. Should he be removed from office for it? Yes and for many other reasons. His doctors' lied when they gave their report on his health. We will hear about that eventually too.

Damn, I am tired of the lies, intrigues and coverups.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Well said.
I understand EXACTLY how you feel.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. I'm with you all the way! Just can't wait to see him at the Hague


I will book my tickets as soon as I have any idea that he will be there~

he is scum. :puke:
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. Let's all plan to go to the Hague... that's a good idea.
Hopefully I will see that in my lifetime.
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TerdlowSmedley Donating Member (463 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. Cranio-rectal inversion syndrome or CRIS
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rosesaylavee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Or better known
as head up their arse?
:rofl:
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:26 PM
Response to Original message
9. Another DUer here - and I'm sorry I don't remember who it was, to give
him or her credit - suggested it might well be the sheer force and magnitude of the lies he's told that are finally starting to catch up with him. The hemming and hawing and sentence fragments and tripping up, umpteen times a minute while he's trying to sound coherent (and failing). It made sense to me. Could also be the seriously large number of brain cells he seems to have killed over - what? DECADES of drug and alcohol abuse? That could easily be part of it, too. Maybe compounding his Pinocchio syndrome. It made PERFECT sense.

I wrote this column not long ago - "Snakes on a Brain" - that talked about this, too, because his behavior reminded me of a kid in school who never bothers to study or do homework, who's then called upon by the teacher and does the ol' Texas Two-step trying to talk his way around answering the question - 'cause he doesn't have the faintest guess as to an answer. I've sat in classes having to suffer slackers like that. They think they're being cool, and that they can "baffle 'em with bullshit," since they aren't able to achieve the alternate - "dazzle them with brilliance."

I suspect it's a combination of the two effects. Drug/booze-rotted brain compounded by an inability to keep one's lies straight, especially when there are literally THOUSANDS of them. It's hard enough to remember one lie you told. bush can't seem to open his mouth without uttering another one.

And remember, THIS is America's face, and voice, to the world. Makes ya proud, 'eh? :eyes:
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villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:34 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. "Snakes on a Brain" is a great title
A tip of the hat to ye!
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PATRICK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. A more respectful article
than the usual comments about the "hula jaw" which more clearly solves the mystery of his facial meanderings. The psychological issue is not separate for sure, but perceived absolute power has removed any self discretion in hiding either infirmities or unskillful lying.

He is less likely than any of the previous presidents to be examined or questioned by reasons of pure fear alone. Nixon's sanity I notice is not on that list. We still don't know, but the best stuff has few sources like the questionable Henry Kissinger. Popularity masking for the great leader is one thing. Fear of the puppet or the puppet's unpopular master is another.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
23. Re Nixon
Nixon hid his severe alcoholism and pill addiction, but historians including Murray Kempton, have written about it.
Nixon drank about a fifth of whiskey a day. It explains his paranoia, sweating, shaking, angry outbursts, etc.
There was an incident with Kissinger during the 1973 Arab/Israeli war, where Nixon was so drunk he could not function in the crisis.

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opihimoimoi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Most likely advanced stages of syphilis, Loloitis, and/or a botched Lobot
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. I thought about this a lot... and I think an increasingly impaired Bush
Edited on Wed Aug-30-06 07:47 AM by Totally Committed
is out front-and-center for a reason.

Let's start with the assumption he's not the REAL leader of this country. -- Who is? Dick Cheney, of course. Would a man with Cheney's health problems truly be elected to not one, but TWO terms in office? This is a man that is surrounded with his own medical team, and defib. equipment 24/7 -- even when travelling. Could he have won and election, never mind re-election as POTUS? I don't think so. The American people, as is a point well-made in the OP, want at least the appearance of "hale and healthy", if not "vigorous", in a POTUS. They have that in the brush-clearing windshield cowboy that is Bush-the-Younger. But, when the sh*t hit the fan on 9/11, who was secreted away and protected in a well-guarded underground bunker, while "President" Bush was in a plane up in the sky like some giant skeet ready for target practice? Yeah.... Cheney.

I say, as impaired as I think Bush is mentally, or even physically, He is but a DIVERSION to jeep our eyes off the horrendous health of the real POTUS -- Dick Cheney. And, let's face it -- he's good at it. Are we talking about Cheney's impairments here? No. We are talking about Bush's... and, I believe that's not only how they want it, it was how it was designed to be.

TC
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:10 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Well said Totally Committed.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Thanks! It's like the "slight of hand" that magicians employ...
to keep you looking away from what they're really doing with their other hand...

TC
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northamericancitizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. indeed: The puppet masters have a master degree in creating
illusion for the mass.

Too bad they are using their talent to serve the new religion : $$$
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:56 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. Let me second that
Great analysis. These evil weasles do devious better than we can fathom. They think about it 24/7, and have been for decades, we haven't. It's hard for reasonable, good people to out-think this layer upon layer of deceit.
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Sugarcoated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
19. I didn't see the whole thing
but what stood out in the interview for me, was when they were talking about books (I think) and Williams was questioning Bush's reputation for incuriousness, and Bush said, 'it's all about lowering expectations with me'. Who knows, maybe it was just more blabber from the word-mangler-in-chief made worse by stress, drugs, etc., but maybe a bit of candor.
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Doctor_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
24. I thinks it's meds
I believe he could barely walk 100 steps without enough meds to put Secretariat in a coma. that's why he doesn't do any work - no meetings, no frank conversations, no speaking at all without notes, no briefings, no decisions, no unscripted press conferences. The only time he's not completely zonked is when he's at Camp David or Crawford.
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 04:33 PM
Response to Original message
28. The difference is Bush can't compare in anyway to JFK and FDR


Now Reagan at least had some degree of intelligence and made a good apperance.

He did speak the English language.

Bush is the 1st President that doesn't speak English.
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
30. I posted my opinion...
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Stinky The Clown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 09:58 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. Hahaha
I posted a link to **this** thread in your linked thread! :hi:
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dajoki Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. You know what they say...
Great minds think alike!!:hi:
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-31-06 07:23 AM
Response to Original message
32. Even with Alzheimer's disease...
Reagan was more competent than Bush. Fetal alchohol syndrome?
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