Bull Moose is right. "Sensible Center" Dems "sensible" about Iraq.

[madfloridian]

In other words he is saying that even our Democrats are saying we are not going to likely be leaving Iraq. So this time I agree with him. Our "Sensible Center" Democrats in the 59 close races are taking about the same stand as their opponents.

The "Sensible Center", afraid to take stands on Iraq...afraid to leave, afraid to stay.

Bull Moose is right.

Sensible

He links to and quotes from the WP story about Democrats being split over an Iraq Timetable.

In Close Races, Most Reject Rapid Pullout

From the WP:

"Most Democratic candidates in competitive congressional races are opposed to setting a timetable for pulling U.S. troops out of Iraq, rejecting pressure from liberal activists to demand a quick end to the three-year-old military conflict.

Of the 59 Democrats in hotly contested House and Senate races, a majority agree with the Bush administration that it would be unwise to set a specific schedule for troop withdrawal, and only a few are calling for substantial troop reductions to begin this year, according to a Washington Post survey of the campaigns."

Then he rubs it in to the "leftists" in the party who think we should leave Iraq as soon as we can.

The Moose observes that Democratic Congressional candidates are embracing the sensible center.

There was big news in yesterday's Washington Post. Contrary to the conventional wisdom, most Democratic Congressional candidates are more DLC and less MoveOn.org.

...."This analysis takes the sail out of the wind both of the activist left who want to retreat and the Republicans who seek to claim that the Democrats are the party of cutting and running. The truth is that while most Democrats are harshly critical of the Administration's handling of the war, many of them realize that it would be disastrous both in terms of policy and politics to signal when we are withdrawing.

If Democrats take the House/and or Senate, these sensible centrist Democrats will not be likely to press for a cut-off of funds or call for a premature withdrawal. While that position might anger the left activists, it will reflect the sentiment of the voters who elect them. The public is deeply dissatisfied with the state of the war. But they reject the option of defeat.

Reports of the demise of the sensible Democratic center may be significantly premature.

Unfortunately I agree with him, I think that the centrist Democrats will win on this one. I think we won't be leaving Iraq.

I am not sure I would call it winning, though. It is so tragic that our Democrats are so afraid to be outspoken on this. I am closely watching the Lamont campaign since the DC consultants have been sent it to take it over. I am closely watching some races in Florida where the candidates are being trained by the Third Way group, notably Penberthy and Christine Jennings. They have no political experience really, and they are being oriented to politics by Jane Harmon's SecureUS group and the Third Way.

[hedda_foil]

1. God save us from Third Wayers

[madfloridian]

2. Amen. Amen.

But they are everywhere...they are surrounding us. :hi:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

15. HalleDLCjah!

http://www.cnprecords.com/joe%20lagey%20original%20artwork/hallelujah!.jpg

[madfloridian]

17. Hedda seldom speaks, but when she does, it rocks.

:hi:

[Totally Committed]

19. Amen, Ms. Hedda...

God save us from Third Wayers, DLC-ers, and wishy-washy/mamby-pamby collusionist milquetoasts everywhere!


TC

[gratuitous]

3. Bull Moose? Bull shit is more like it

Bull Moose is certainly adept at putting his own gloss on what he sees and reads. Unfortunately, it comes out pretty much the same: Delusional to the point of pitiful.

I see Democrats running against the war in Iraq, and refusing to be drawn into the GOP-approved frame. Neither "stay the failed course" nor "cut and run", Democrats are not overpromising voters on what they can or will do should they be elected. This discombobulates clowns like Bull Moose, who is still convinced that the Iraq invasion might still turn out to be a success.* So they turn the Democrats' non-conformity with GOP framing into a wholly unjustified conclusion that Democrats won't pull us out of Iraq either. So, why not stick with the committed delusional folks in the GOP, rather than settle for the folks who will keep us in Iraq but not really like it?

The day is soon coming when Bull Moose's pea brain rolls out his ear and he inadvertently squashes it under his bunny slippers.

*I use here my Junior-with-a-fork analogy: Junior has a fork in his hand and is jabbing it at the electrical outlet. You run to stop him, but Bull Moose is there and intervenes. Loudly and confidently, he states that there is a one-in-a-bazillion chance that when Junior makes contact with the electrical element with the fork, he'll poop out a pill that cures cancer. And if you try to stop Junior from jabbing at the outlet, why, you must love cancer and want to see millions of people suffer and die from cancer! Bull Moose is very loud. And very confident. And can you actually guarantee that Junior's not going to poop out a pill that cures cancer? No? Then let Junior go or you're an inhuman monster. Meanwhile, every sane person on the planet knows that Junior is going to shoot himself 10 feet across the room, and the only real question is whether his little smoking body will be a corpse or just fried around the edges.

[acmejack]

4. The Bullshit Moose is right?

Way Right is more like it! Please, "rubs it in? You're mad alright as in completely off your rocker! You need to saddle up the bs moose and figure out how to get the Iraqis to stand and fight for themselves In case you haven't noticed, that base the Brits left under their care lasted what about ten hours. No way, no how, we can't let these guys keep throwing our kids lives away period!

That's all they want to stay there and profit off the war they are the same as the republicans. In fact they are the republicans, the leftwing of the war machine. God help us, these people will be the ruination of us all.

The only thing in the middle of the road is yellow stripes and squashed armadillos. Jim Hightower

[madfloridian]

5. Ok, so, are you mad at me or Bull Moose?

Not sure. Maybe you are not understanding what I am saying?

I think he is right in that our Democrats are hesitant to speak out clearly and honestly. I think that there is a wing of the party that does not have any intention of pulling out of Iraq...now or ever.

I don't like that. But I think he may be right about it...that the Democrats are afraid to say it.

[acmejack]

8. I hate the moose, I leave you in peace.

I agree that there is an element of the Party that is right on board with th Republicans and intends to occupy not only Iraq but the entire Middle East. Those fourteen permanent Bases that no one will talk about. They're still proceeding right along with them and they show no inclination to abandon them.

I just see something really screwed up coming down here and it spells real trouble not only for our Country in general but for our kids in particular. I am really concerned that they are going to start drafting them, this IRR callup is terribly ominous to me. For all of the brave talk about not going, it is a lot different when your number is 26 and get that letter. I know that feeling! I'm scared for us, our kids, and our Country. Screw a bunch of people elsewhere, the real Terrorists are in DC!

[madfloridian]

10. PPI DLC is calling the "draft" another name now.

I think they are calling it "universal service." Will Marshall had a post there at the PPI site about it. They make it sound like it will cover all areas of society, but I fear it is the same thing.

[madfloridian]

12. Ok, found the PPI article by Will Marshall..called "general service"

or "universal service". It is vaguely presented, but not that hard to see it as a draft.

http://www.ppionline.org/ppi_ci.cfm?knlgAreaID=115&subsecID=145&contentID=253462

"Will Americans someday be asking each other, "What did you do for national service?" That's the question posed in a new book, The AmeriCorps Experiment, edited by Will Marshall and Marc Porter Magee. AmeriCorps is America's great effort at voluntary national service. First proposed by the Democratic Leadership Council and implemented by the Clinton administration, the national service program today boasts 75,000 participants and a budget of more than $400 million. AmeriCorps is largely a success, say the authors, and should be dramatically expanded. One of the book's contributors, William A. Galston, even suggests making national service compulsory, like the wartime draft. Marshall and Magee, in the chapter excerpted here, argue for keeping the program voluntary, but using the Selective Service System as one of its recruiting devices."

"Why is bigger better? The first and most compelling reason for expansion is to match the scale of America's unmet needs. Our country's "social deficit" is as daunting as our fiscal deficit. Compared with other rich countries the United States has very high rates of poverty (especially among children), out-of-wedlock births, and youth violence, as well as a wide racial and ethnic gap in educational achievement. Add to these enduring social problems the new challenges presented by the 9/11 terrorist attacks and the baby boom's retirement, and you have a "to do" list that overwhelms government's current capacities. We need to mobilize the nation's civic resources more broadly to tackle such urgent priorities as:

Tutoring and mentoring disadvantaged children, especially those from broken families and those with parents in prison.

Providing long-term care and other help for the elderly to help America age successfully as the baby boomers retire.

Protecting our homeland against terrorist attacks.

Sharing the burden of military service to our country."

[madfloridian]

14. Oh, my, would someone explain the "Senior Corps" to me?

It is in the article listed from the PPI?

Senior Corps, paying an additional stipend? At retirement time? What am I missing here, this sounds just plain weird to me.

"As we expand service opportunities for young Americans, we should not neglect the coming wave of baby boom retirees. A recent opinion survey shows that the percentage of Americans nearing retirement who are interested in a year or more of service increases fourfold to almost 50 percent if they are offered a structured service environment, a small monthly stipend, and the choice of an education or health-care benefit. Building on the success of the Senior Corps and the Experience Corps, the Progressive Policy Institute (PPI) has proposed organizing a large-scale "Boomer Corps" to enable the boomers to help themselves meet the challenges of healthy and successful aging and give something back to their country."


The president still has no plan for Iraq, using rhetoric of fear

[acmejack]

16. I wouldn't be opposed to volunteering in an hospital or as a tutor.

A few hours a day, we could all give that back, the tutoring could make a gigantic difference to a child. It could make a big difference in the quality of the education for many of our struggling kids. I can't see it being involuntary, but as a volunteer service with a modest monetary stipend attached I think it has potential. One of the few good ideas ex Republican Marshall has had, but it is still masking his real agenda-gotta be sure those Seniors don't loaf in their dotage, that's reserved for people of his class.

[madfloridian]

18. The real agenda is to "partially" privatize...on the road to totally

privatizing, which is the agenda of the leaders at least in the PPI/DLC. It was stated that way very clearly. That is why they supported personal accounts, partial privatization.

Marshall is wrong in suggesting a universal service for seniors...unless he knows what's coming down the road. When I as a senior volunteer, it is by choice. I don't expect pay. I don't want some program forcing seniors into a Senior Corp. I am surprised that even sounds ok.

[Elidor]

6. Shorter Bull Moose

"Political expediency trumps morality." Not surprising from the former legislative director for the Christian Coalition. Wittman is a clueless fuckwit.

[AtomicKitten]

7. "sensible center" my asscrack

Iraq is a black hole into which we are throwing blood and money. F*ck that. There is nothing sensible about that.

We need to get the hell out of Iraq IMMEDIATELY

[Totally Committed]

20. EXACTLY.

IMMEDIATELY.

TC

[welshTerrier2]

9. what will be accomplished by remaining in Iraq?

it is beyond abhorrent to address what the polls say about immediate withdrawal without first giving a coherent definition of their proposed alternative policy ... those who fail to do so are beyond contempt ...

if mr. bullmoose or anyone else can explain what progress can be credibly anticipated by putting up with the parade of death we've seen in Iraq, i'm all ears ...

but that never is the case; it's always about some imagined political gain ... bullmoose and those who condone such garbage are despicable ... when people of this perversion, regardless of party, ask for my support, they can go straight to hell ... or perhaps Iraq ...

[ProSense]

11. "We are truly ruled by imbeciles."

http://atrios.blogspot.com/2006_08_27_atrios_archive.html#115668570056130952">Serious

The man the Bullshit Moose thinks is "serious" about foreign policy says this is the solution for Iraq:

I believe that the best way for us to win the war in Iraq is to come together - the administration, Congress, and Republicans and Democrats - to find a solution that will allow our troops to come home with Iraq united and free, with the Middle East stable and the terrorists denied a victory.

That's a solution? We gather around the campfire and agree on something?

We are truly ruled by imbeciles.

[ProSense]

13. And to this comment:

Then he rubs it in to the "leftists" in the party who think we should leave Iraq as soon as we can.

Here's a view that's not from the "leftists" in the party:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2799103&mesg_id=2799103


Leaving Iraq is the moral thing to do and doing it as soon as possible is the smart thing to do. The so-called "sensible center" can work toward that goal or take their share of the blame for allowing this illegal and senseless occupation to drag out longer than necessary.

[Zhade]

21. My signature applies to fools like him.

He's on the wrong side of history and decency here.