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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:09 AM
Original message
sibel edmonds hates hillary clinton
this from sibel
Senator Hillary Clinton: All Show and no Substance

By Sibel Edmonds & William Weaver

Recent surveys measuring public opinion and confidence in congress all arrived at the same conclusion: over seventy percent of Americans have lost faith and confidence in the United States Congress. The public no longer trusts this body of politicians who were elected to represent the people and the peoples’ interests. Instead, they now view these “representatives” as servants of special interest groups, corporations and high-powered lobbyists. Americans are tired of watching and listening to elected officials who refrain from taking a strong stand on crucial issues, and who almost never state their positions with conviction and sincerity. In the eyes of the nation these senators and representatives are nothing more than programmed publicity puppets, competing for face time in the media. Common adjectives used by our citizens to describe these officials clearly reflect their sentiments: “spineless,” “phony,” “corrupt,” “out of touch,” “timid,” “all show and no substance,” and the list goes on. Why have we Americans lost confidence and faith in those elected? Where and when did we go wrong; or perhaps more correctly, they go wrong? What have these representatives done, or, failed to do, that arouses such anger and loathing in the very same constituents who voted them into office?

Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is a perfect example; an elected senator who has served six years in her seat, never taking a strong stand in support of her constituents on any serious or controversial issue; a senator who has used her record-breaking TV public appearances to say “nothing”; a senator whose senate office adheres strictly to a motto of “See no Evil, Hear no Evil”; an elected official who has no record of conducting investigations into cases that are matters of great concern to her constituents and to our nation; a senator who has consistently stood quietly on the sidelines when the issues at hand demand public hearings –waiting to determine the direction of each blowing wind; a politician who has spent all her focus and energy on a campaign of shallow publicity glitz and her PR empire behind it. Here are some documented illustrative examples:

James J. DiGeorgio and Carl Steubing died in ways no war veteran should. They were subjected to illegal drug experimentation by employees of the Stratton Veterans Affairs Medical Center in Albany, New York; killed by servants of the very government they fought to protect. Scores of other veterans were injured in these experiments, and only by the courage of whistleblowers Jeffrey Fudin and Anthony Mariano was any measure of justice achieved for these misdeeds. One person was convicted of manslaughter, but investigations into other officials collapsed because of a lack of institutional nerve to follow the investigation to the end. A scape-goated employee went to prison, while those who supervised, facilitated, and reaped the benefits of the lucrative, illegal drug testing went on to other VA positions with promotions and raises.

Between 2000 and June 2006, numerous contacts with Senator Hillary Clinton over the Stratton tragedy went unacknowledged, or glossed over, or shuffled around to various offices with no substantive action. No less than five Clinton staff members heard presentations and received documentation about the experiments, and Senator Clinton herself is personally aware of the detailed facts of the case. This personal knowledge did not translate into action, for though Senator Clinton carefully scripts her numerous public appearances to give the impression of caring and concern, her actions speak otherwise. She noted "our nation made a pact with those who serve their country in the Armed Forces – a commitment that those who served would have access to quality health care through the VA hospital system . . . and they deserve to be treated as the best." But while Senator Clinton was issuing such lofty statements and mugging for photo opportunities with active duty military, she did nothing about the systematic abuse and murder of veterans within her own constituency. The Veterans Affairs Whistleblowers Coalition, and more recently the National Security Whistleblowers Coalition, sent numerous letters and e-mails and copious documentation, pleading for help from the Senator to investigate and address the crimes committed at Stratton, including unrelenting retaliation against the whistleblowers who brought these matters to public attention

Notably, the VAWBC recognized that the motivations and incentives that led to abuse at Stratton were present at many hospitals throughout the VA system, and that greed and poor management in the VA guaranteed that the events of Stratton would be repeated elsewhere. The most vulnerable people, the sick and dying with nowhere to turn but to the VA, were exploited and killed by those tasked with their medical care, and their suffering and death were ignored by Senator Clinton. It is doubly offensive that this woman sits on the Armed Services Committee, which, along with the Veterans Affairs Committee, has the duty to provide for the well-being of current and former military service members. For all her posturing; for a senator who advertises herself as a hawk and pro military; how does she show it in action? By abandoning our veterans and war heroes in need!

Senator Clinton’s failure concerning Stratton is not an isolated event; it is part of a pattern of studious avoidance of principled action in the face of serious government misconduct, and the refusal to come to the aid of those people who expose that misconduct. When Bunnatine Greenhouse exposed extraordinary graft and impropriety in government contracting with Halliburton, when Sergeant Samuel Provance reported prisoner abuse and torture at Abu Ghraib, when Russ Tice disclosed violations of the Constitution by the National Security Agency, and when Jay Stroup, Thomas Bittler, Jim Griffin, and Ray Guagliardi exposed serious defects and negligence in the Transportation Security Administration that puts travelers at risk, Clinton did nothing. No words of support, no calls for investigations, no efforts to prevent the lives and careers of whistleblowers from being destroyed. Documents on numerous cases were shared with her office, offers to brief her and her staff have been made on many occasions, pleas for her to live up to the words she so casually utters, have all been ignored, or even ridiculed.

In her six years as senator she has done nothing but attempt to position herself for the presidency, done nothing but avoid acting out of principle and justice, done everything to offend no one. We respect our opponents in much greater measure than we respect Senator Clinton, for with our opponents at least the fight is joined; at least they have the courage of their convictions, at least they place their bets in public. But Senator Clinton, by trying to be something to everyone ends up being nothing to anyone. Where she cannot act safely, she does not act. The current times call for politicians to act with conviction and intelligence, not with cynical, calculated action in response to what opinion polls indicate. If Senator Clinton cannot even come to the aid of constituent veterans being killed through grotesquely immoral and illegal medical experimentation, if she cannot commit herself to call for investigations of national security vulnerabilities that risk national catastrophe, if she cannot offer even moral support to those who disclose outrageous government incompetence and impropriety, is there anything that would prompt her to take a stance out of conviction? Such a person has no business representing the people of this country. Nothing stirs her soul except for her own selfish ambitions; ambitions that she places in front of the nation’s welfare.

Two weeks from today, New Yorkers will cast their vote to determine their upcoming democratic candidate. We hope that they will ask themselves a few hard questions and consider their answers before they cast their vital votes. Are they among those who are tired and disgusted with the current Congress, which has abdicated its duty and responsibility to the public at large? Are they going to have “needed change and reform” in mind when voting for their next candidate? Will they vote for someone with an established record of failure? Or will they take a chance on new blood? Are they going to take into consideration this incumbent’s misuse of “national security and terrorism”? Will they reflect on her failures when presented with real issues threatening our security - brought to her by those on the front lines? Will they consider having raised more money than any other democratic candidate a plus or a minus - questioning all she had to promise and everyone she had to sell out in order to raise those millions? Will they simply ask, isn’t six years long enough? Isn’t it time for a change? Isn’t it time to give another democrat the opportunity to step up and become what we all long for – a true representative of the people?

We have confidence in the sophistication of our New Yorkers. We believe they’ll say: “Ms. Clinton, fool us once, shame on you; fool us twice shame on us.”


for more on sibel and hillary, see my recent interview with sibel on the Dirty Dozen
http://wotisitgood4.blogspot.com/2006/07/hillary-clinton-dirty-dozen.html

John Tasini for New York
http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:11 AM
Response to Original message
1. this title seems inappropriate, but it is a great article.
They get a read on the Hillary that I know and do not trust.

Her little, scripted, pathetic "attack" on Rummie was so programmed, so predictable, and so worthless. Heck, she walked out right after reading her prepared text as though she did not care about the answer.

Bob Novak, the little shit, made that same point yesterday on some talking head program, and I have to say, he was 100% accurate about her.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. great article
you are right - it is a great op-ed

as for the title... i've spoken to sibel about hillary - and yep - she's really angry.
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Why that would be our Ms. Clinton.
If there were any justice in this world of our's, Tasini would be the next Jr. Senator of New York.
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
3. Hate Is Too Strong A Word; Distrust Is More Accurate
and Sibel Edmonds is not alone. Hillary has shown herself to be amazingly obtuse about issues which are black and white, always trying to hide in a grey shadow, and cherry-pick from both sides. She doesn't have her hubby's charm, either.

No, we aren't willing to trade Darth Cheney for some female version of the same. Hillary has to find another modus operendi if she wants to win votes.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. 'hate' is my word
however i suspect that sibel wouldnt use 'distrust' - find me something in the middle
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #7
25. is wary of? nt
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:16 AM
Response to Original message
4. They have Hillary pegged perfectly.
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Lowell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
6. Great Article
It is too bad that Hilary hasn't done anything during her tenure. I've been extremely disappointed in her performance and I hope the good people of NY put a different Democrat in there next time.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:33 AM
Response to Original message
8. Two weeks to go!
Thanks Lukery! Two weeks to go.

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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #8
30. Yes, Hopefully Anger Over The Iraq War and Hillary's Record
...on whistleblowers will motivate some primary voters to take a stand and send Hillary packing.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
9. Yes..
... try asking any of the rabid HRC supporters around here just what she's ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISHED and you'll get the internet equivalent of the thousand yard stare.

Because the only thing they can come up with is how "smart" she is. I know zillions of smart people. And many who actually have integrity, something HRC will never have.

If HRC gets the nomination, McCain WILL SLAUGHTER HER in the general. Count on it.
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #9
11. I totally agree with this -- TOTALLY.
It says everything I would have, only better.

And, I think she is unelectable no matter WHO the other side runs against her, because she will rally the Republican base against us like no other candidate on our side would. (And, I include Al Gore in that!) But, as sendero said... McCain will slaughter her. (And us.)

TC
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #9
20. Perhaps the best way to prevent HRC in 2008 is to vote NOW!
Edited on Mon Aug-28-06 09:49 AM by calipendence
... for Mr. Tasini. Of course you can't vote for a Rethug in the general election if she should get nominated. But if she has to face a strong opposition in Mr. Tasini, even if she wins, that might serve a warning to those who might want to try and annoint her as the 2008 candidate that she's FULL of risks trying to get turnout of REAL Democrats.

Kudos to Sibel for speaking her mind of this. She's spoke truth to power on many occasions before, and it's not stopping her from doing it in a principled (not partisan) fashion this time either.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #9
21. You And Sibel Are Both Unfair
<sarcasm ON>
To address your point: Ms. Clinton has raised more campaign money from big money people (The Predator Class) than any other person in Congress - she's far and away the leader here. That's quite an accomplishment, no?

And she was a Director of Wal-Mart for six years, when they were pioneering their "Always the lowest wages. Always." revolution. It was the precursor of outsourcing, NAFTA, and all of the other Clinton policies to drive down wages to the benefit of the Predator Class. In today's NY Times there's an article that says that wages are now the smallest percentage of the US economy since we started measuring this in 1947 - Hill (and Bill) definitely deserve substantial credit for this coup.

And what the heck Sibel's problem? Doesn't she realize that Ms. Clinton needs something to triangulate against? Sheesh!
<sarcasm OFF>
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 06:18 PM
Response to Reply #21
37. lol
you are correct! we should admire ms clinton for the $ she can raise from the military-industrial-complex. that's no mean feat!
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
10. she disagrees with Hils policies/positions but to say she 'hates' her is
very wrong.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. 'hate' may be too strong
but its close - as i said earlier. it's much closer than 'disagrees with'
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. "contempt"....
... might work :)
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. k
sibel contempts hillary :-)
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. generally..
... we'd say "has contempt for" :)
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MiaCulpa Donating Member (741 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent post, Dude! ;)
Good to see ya, how ya been?

-Desi
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. hey!
hey desi!

lovely to see you!
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
17. Sibel comes across as a little bias. She seems more angry at the
lack of help for whistle blowers than the issues. She's also using this article to campaign for John Tasini. That's a little devious on her part. Sibel also needs to shorten her Op-Ed if she wants more people to read her article.

Just in case Hillary gets the nomination...this is a very helpful article for Rethugs to circulate and doesn't help our party. I personally don't want Hillary elected but this is a little over the top to post on a Democrat site.

I used to like SE but after reading this article she seems a little bitter and talks like a Republican. She just turned me off.



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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
32. Sorry But Lack of Help for Whistleblowers...
is an issue- a very important one.

How can Hillary, on the one hand, ask for your vote as a progressive. Then, on the other hand, treat whistleblower's who expose government corruption like dirt.

It shows something about Hillary's character- basically, that she talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Is that someone we want representing us in office?
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:39 AM
Response to Original message
19. Okay, I can see her point, up to a point
First of all, Clinton is a JUNIOR senator, in a MINORITY party, which doesn't give her much power.

Second, she will get reelected because moderate dems like her AND moderate repubs like her as well. When people think of New York, they only think of the city. New York state has a lot of red areas. While we have the majority in the Assembly, we have the minority in the state senate.

zalinda
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. No more Excuse!
Don't we know where Feingold stands?

Let's see, junior or not, considering the fact that she is visible, nothing can excuse her lack of candor and stand.

What did she do or say on torture and abuse cases in Abu Ghraib? 'Zilch' she is on Arms Services committee!

What did she do or say on massive and widespread DOD contract fraud cases? 'Zilch' and she is on the relevant committee.

Where does she stand on War; Iraq? Hey, she is more avid supporter than even some neocons.

Where did she stand on 'Patriot Act'? We all know she doesn't give a damn about our civil liberties. She is pro butchering our rights in the name of security.

Where does she stand on NSA Illegal Eaves dropping? No one knows; she is too busy being a publicity whore and selling herself for campaign donations.

Do you want more? Where have you been?????
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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #22
23. All Very Good Points
What difference if one supports a higher minimum wage, but lets the Constitution pass through a shredder? What if the flag doesn't burn, but NOLA drowns? There's no such things as baby steps to higher office.
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #23
24. Right On!
This is why we are where we are today. It is this mind set that has led our nation to this dark point.

On one hand they complain and whimper on the state of our country; on the other hand, they go and vote for the same people leading us where we are today, and find excuses for their lack of spine.

The surveys' result: 70% of our people have no confidence in congress. It is not the congressional buildings! It's the senators and representatives in them!

Now we have a chance to say 'enough is enough.' So, let's say it and act on it.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #19
34. Aren't most New Yorkers Opposed to the War?
Hillary can be a moderate on economic issues, while not supporting this foolish and destructive war. I believe New Yorkers by a majority are opposed to the Iraq War. So why is Hillary being more hawkish than her own constitutuents?

And there's no excuse for her attitudes towards whistleblowers...that's not a question of Left or Right but of simply not caring enough to do her job.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. really
do moderate repubs really like her?
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zalinda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #36
50. Yes, they do, at least here in NY
She wouldn't have the support she has if they didn't. This may look like a blue state, but it isn't. If it weren't for NYC, it could possibly go red. She has like a 65% approval rating, across the board.

zalinda
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Al122 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
26. New York Dems - Send Hillary a Loud and Clear Message on Sept 12
Vote for Tasini. Tasini is the complete opposite of the kind of wishy-washy, play it safe politics Mrs. Clinton and far too many other congressional Democrats practice. Under this kind of leadership, the congressional party has been turned into little more than window dressing for the Republicans. The Repub-conserves are not afraid to fight like wolves for their own principles (however insane they might be).Either we Democrats start doing the same soon or we are going to go the way of the Whigs.

Tasini is for:

An immediate end to the occupation of Iraq

Medicare for All

Full Marriage Equality for same -sex couples

The impeachment of Bush and Cheney

Reigning in out of control corporate power

An end to "free trade" agreements like NAFTA that have cost us millions of high paying, unionized jobs and are destroying the American middle class.

Go to his website at www.tasinifornewyork.org if you'd like to see more on the issues, audio and video clips of him speaking.

You are not hurting the party or wasting your time by voting for Tasini. The Republicans are no real threat to the Democratic Party in New York state. A high percentage turnout for Tasini will have an impact on Clinton, who will be sizing up support for a run in 08.' If the message we send is loud enough, Clinton will hear it.

By voting for Tasini you can make this September's primary mean something.

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sagesnow Donating Member (311 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 06:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
35. Just Sent Tasini a few bucks. n/t
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Cornus Donating Member (720 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
59. I agree
And that's why Tasini will also have my vote on Sept. 12.
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PinkyisBlue Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
27. The sophistication of George Bush:
Here's how he stumbles out the saying: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool you twice, shame on you. What's that sayin' again?"
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randyconspiracybuff Donating Member (192 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. Count Me In The Hillary Hating Club Too
Her attitude towards whistleblower's is part of a larger pattern of poor, callous governance. Hillary is a war-hawk, what I would call the Margaret Thatcher of American politics. She is counting on the fact that progressives and liberals will squawk and complain, but in the end they will all fall in line because they have "no place else to go".

Let's start proving these master triangulators wrong. Let's stop being "strategic" voters and become "principled" voters. If we vote our conscience, we'll all feel better about ourselves at the end of the day.
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Al122 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Vote for Tasini (if you are a New Yorker), join PDA
and help to build a new Democratic Party that can no longer use the progressive left as a doormat.

For more info on Tasini go to www.tasinifornewyork.org

For more info on PDA (Progressive Democrats of America) go to www.pdamerica.org
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truthjustice Donating Member (3 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
52. don't look at the red or blue, look at the actions...

And you'll see that she is not a champion of liberty.

Just judge Hillary based on her actions, not her rhetoric or speeches. If she had an "R" in front of her name, would you think differently of her?

Not to mention she meets regularly with Rupert Murdoch and Roger Ailes.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #52
61. actually, you've got it backwards
HRC has an ADA rating of 95% - one of the most liberal voting records in the Senate.

Her "rhetoric or speeches" tend to be more conservative than her actual voting record.


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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
33. I don't hate Hillary,
but I agree with this assessment 100%.

I admire Hillary. She conducted herself with grace and dignity during the 8 years of smears and attacks from the republican swiftboaters. However, she is a HORRIBLE Senator who does NOT represent the voters of NY, or the US in general. She represents the RICH Corporate Owners (her class) at the expense of LABOR and the POOR. She should be replaced.

Donate to Tasini:
http://www.tasinifornewyork.org/Donate


Here is where America (Democrats AND Republicans) stands:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."



http://alternet.org/wiretap/29788/

8. Over 60% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445


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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 06:21 PM
Response to Reply #33
38. a reasonable assessment
Hillary is much too powerful and well financed and I think Tasini is a not particularly good and underfunded candidate, but what the hell, it's worth a shot.

I am fully into the democratic process. :)
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StateSecrets Donating Member (394 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 06:47 PM
Response to Reply #38
40. I am with you
I am not crazy for Tasini; but when it comes to choosing between the two: Clinton's track record had already been established; I know she ain't the one.
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #40
42. debates
i'm miffed that they could just block tasini from the debates - but we know why. Lieberman was a goner the minute he agreed to debate lamont.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. I don't agree that there would be the same result.
I seriously doubt Ms. Clinton is "worried" about debating Tasini; she's a formidable candidate. From a strategic POV it doesn't make sense for Hillary to allow herself to be bloodied up in the primary when her opponent is so far behind. I'm more interested in keeping the seat blue (as an outsider looking in), and in that vein I'm OK with her not debating Tasini. If he had a prayer of winning, I would feel different.
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AJH032 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
39. Question
How does her voting record reflect a representation of the "rich corporate owners" at labor's expense? Because I sure don't see it.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Emergency order at work...busy all day...
I have been monitoring and will post when things lighten up!

Nice to know I am missed however! ;-)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
45. Wow! I never thought it about it
in exactly those words but that's pretty darn descriptive of our Ms Clinton.

"Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is a perfect example; an elected senator who has served six years in her seat, never taking a strong stand in support of her constituents on any serious or controversial issue; a senator who has used her record-breaking TV public appearances to say “nothing”; a senator whose senate office adheres strictly to a motto of “See no Evil, Hear no Evil”; an elected official who has no record of conducting investigations into cases that are matters of great concern to her constituents and to our nation; a senator who has consistently stood quietly on the sidelines when the issues at hand demand public hearings.."

I should know..I'm one of those Constituents.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. and by tip-toeing around controversy
she has lost the respect of many Americans who are desperate for someone to take a stand against the injustices and inequities and felonies that litter the landscape.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Oh, I just remembered a "strong stand" or
two she took on aaaa..what was it? Was it Flag burning and what was that other thing?
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:12 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. that's a dog and pony show for the
elusive (reads irrelevant) center. Too bad some politicians don't understand that more (sane) people don't give a shit about that stuff. It seems rather pointless to lose support on one end while trying to gain support on the other.

People are looking for an authentic leader, someone who stands on genuine principle, not on focus group-identified issues that pale in comparison to the genuine challenges this country faces.

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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:49 AM
Response to Reply #48
58. Very well
said!
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. music videos...n/t
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lukery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
51. words
sibel does have a great way with words :-)

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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-28-06 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
53. Why can't Hillary be more like Cynthia Mckinney?
:-(
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CrushTheDLC Donating Member (448 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:08 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. At least Cynthia McKinney was actually a resident of Georgia
...before she ran for office there.
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:54 AM
Response to Reply #54
55. I don't hate Senator Clinton.
I don't like her political positions. She is not a Progressive. I hope that she does not run for Pres. If she does I hope she loses in the Primaries. I agree that she is more of an Opportunist than an actual Dem, even a moderate one.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #54
56. The "actual residents" of New York had no problem voting Hillary in
as a senator from their state.

That's the bottom line. ;-)
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HeavensHell Donating Member (55 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #56
57. Clinton is a NY'er because we allow her to be
I may disagree with the Senators position on certain issues, but I am relatively pleased with her performance. Her polls show her way ahead of everybody. Landslide election if you ask me. I've also noticed the more the rest of the country disagrees with the Senator the higher her approval ratings go within the state. New York is a blue state. Our republicans are not like the rest of the country's republicans. Look at the guy running as a total conservative, one you'd expect to run in the deep south. His numbers are in the toilet. As of late he's raised a little over 500,000. Pretty pathetic. New Yorker's do not tolerate any thing but a fake conservative. We are def. a moderate state. I am pretty tired of non-residents telling us who we should vote. Pay attention to your own states and your own problems before focusing on ours.
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #53
60. Out of office and largely thought of as a political sideshow?
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noonwitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #60
64. Good one
I'm not a Cynthia McKinney fan. She doesn't help make dems look good on a national level.
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-29-06 08:16 PM
Response to Original message
62. She is currently singlehandedly blocking an AIDS funding bill
due to her belief it short changes her state. Now forget the merits for a moment. If that isn't courageously fighting for her constituents I don't know what is.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. I agree.
Misinterpreted by many, she is stopping a crappy bill that would short-change not only NY but other more populated states. Sometimes you have to look beyond the headlines for the gist of the story, and you did. I applaud you in that regard.

more discussion here:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2794298
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dsc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-30-06 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
65. In all honesty I tend to disagree with her on this
since I live in one of the underfunded states but I do give her credit for representing her constituents, I only hope my Senators behave the same way.
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