Russert looked sick in his interview with WaPo's Ricks

[grasswire]

Did anyone watch Tim Russert on Saturday? Tom Ricks, author of the new book "Fiasco" was on and they were talking very seriously about Iraq and the military. I saw Russert without his usual attack manner, and he just looked more and more concerned as Ricks laid out the truth about the runup to the war, and the truth about Bush, and the truth about what is to come.

I never saw him look like that before.

[Fredda Weinberg]

1. I saw a progression

Russert started w/objections, but by the end, simply listened.

[salin]

4. Tell me that he isn't *just now* starting to realize

the malfeasance used by the administration to get us into the war? Or the problems of fanatics doing the so-called "post war" planning - as in they only used "rosy scenarios" and purged or shut down any dissent from the planning (which generally leads to better planning). I am not familiar with the book, and did't see the show. The OP and your description, though, reads like these types of thoughts were just dawning on him. I know, that is big jump of logic on my part. Can you describe the type of material that moved him from 'objecting' to 'simply listening'? Thanks.

[Fredda Weinberg]

10. It was the source

By the end, Russert was repeating Ricks' position at the Washington Post. He challenged Ricks on his sources, but was silenced by the litany that followed.

In other words, it wasn't what ... it was whom. Yeah, it took that long for the first draft of history to be written, but Russert heard an authoritative source and it showed.

[salin]

15. I will have to get a copy of the book

recently finished 'Conservatives without Conscience'. I found it an incredibly insightful book, especially for trying to understand how some have come to continue swallowing what on the surface is clear craziness and inconsistencies. Always looking for insight into how to better understand, and thus communicate with folks with very different world views than my own.

For so many people, it is hard to let go of the idea that our government and those serving in it, generally are trying to do their best for the country - even if they go about it in a different way than one believes (eg different party) - and even if they sometimes make mistakes. Thus, while these folks may have grown disillusioned with the war, unless they are incredibly well read (multiple news papers daily over a long period of time) - unwilling to consider the idea that those in government acted in bad-faith (or worse.) I think of it as psychological cognitive dissonance - to really consider that some of the failures might have been intentional - or at the least that when it was seen that policies were failing, a resistance to change those policies (for political reasons - need to look "right/resolute/etc.") - means that one has to begin to question the premise that I started with - that the govt (and those serving) are generally serving the interest of the country rather than the interest of self. Many people fight off the cognitive dissonance rather than fighting through it.

Sounds like this book is well sourced enough to force some folks into dealing with that cognitive dissonance. Always looking for good tools for those discussions with folks with different world views.

[JohnyCanuck]

18. Creative destruction is our middle name. - Michael Ledeen

The New Totalitarianism

by Dr. Norman Livergood

SNIP

People throughout the world must become aware that this new totalitarianism is completely unlike any previous geopolitical power structure. Its very essence is annihilation; it possesses no redeeming or mitigating feature. To allow yourself to think of these people as simply foolish, incompetent, irrational, or wrong-headed is as mistaken and misinformed as thinking that Hitler was merely a well-meaning but mistaken fearless leader of his people.

Uninformed people will say: "The Bush administration surely doesn't want to let the United States go to ruin, they have too much at stake. They must realize they're not winning in Iraq."

They don't care a straw for what happens to American workers or the U.S. infrastructure; they gain power and wealth through annihilation--we must get that fixed in our minds! The more America becomes a drug-ridden war zone with a blasted economy and escalating crime (street crime and white collar crime), the more young people are forced to become "cannon fodder" for the cabal wars; they have no other jobs to go to. The cabal is not losing the war in Iraq, it's winning!

SNIP

Spokesmen for the criminal cabal have been blatantly outspoken about their primary goals; it's just that American and world citizens have found it difficult to believe that a group of people could be so ruthless, unjust, and cruel--so sub-human. It's time we took them at their word:


"We are an awesome revolutionary force. Creative destruction is our middle name. We tear down the old order every day... Seeing America undo old conventions, they fear us, for they do not wish to be undone. . . We wage total war because we fight in the name of an idea. . . Stability is for those older, burnt-out countries, not for the American dynamo."

Michael A. Ledeen, Freedom Chair holder at the American Enterprise Institute.

http://www.hermes-press.com/barbaric_annihilation.htm

[grasswire]

32. thanks for that Ledeen quote

I was planning to write to Ricks and tell him that at some point we have to assume that the real strategic plan for the WH cabal has been enacted; that Bushco is on target to fully bankrupt the U.S. Treasury. We shouldn't assume this is all folly or ineptitude. THEY GOT WHAT THEY WANTED and are willing to pay the political price for the endless treasure they've gotten.

[chieftain]

41. I just finished it and it is a great book until the last chapter.

After citing chapter and verse of this unmitigated disaster, Ricks endorses staying to keep a cap on the violence. It is like two different people wrote the thing. First there is a powerful, irrefutable explication of how wrong headed the whole misadventure was/is. And then an exhortation not to leave early.
Even with the crock of an ending, I recommend the book. It is a definitive account of much but not all that went on during this despicable episode.What it glosses over is how the decisions were made and by whom to change the original strategy of decapitating the regime, installing the exiles and getting the hell out of there. Ricks lays a lot of the responsibility on Bremer, but he had to have support from on high for the decisions he made that necessitated the long term occupation.

[Felix Mala]

43. The trouble with leaving, now that we're there...

the ensuing black hole would swallow up the middle east and lead to some kind of far-right Islamic super state. (Just what Osama was after all along...)

[Cosmocat]

23. What struck me was ...

Russert asked him "how could they have gotten the intelligence so wrong" ... And, Ricks flat said they didn't ... GOD LOVE HIM ... Spelled out what has been said 100 different times, 100 different ways, how the admin simply discarded intel that didn't suit the purposes ...

These MSM clowns are SO weak minded ... Does Russert actually believe it was an intellgence failure ... Or, has he repeated his orders so freakin often he has deluded himself ...

[samsingh]

30. exactly - the intelligence was right all along

they took the pieces, adjusted the probabilities to make their justification.

i believe that 911 was allowed to happen to give an excuse for all this. they probably didn't think it was going to be as severe as it turned out to be. i think the truth will come out. what will that say about all those connected to the bush family?

[Cosmocat]

44. Absolutely ...

Bush was freakin oblivious, cause he is oblivious ... They just let him act all tough and strut around, totally clueless ... Same to a lesser extent with Condi ... She didn't have a clue, she was so far in over her head ...

Cheney, however ... He ain't no dummy, and he knew it was possible something was going to happen ... Again, he probably had no clue what it was going to be, but he happily let the admin sleepwalk through the first 9 months, looking for a way to go after Iraq, and one way was to let some kind of terrorist attack happen on the homeland ...

[Supersedeas]

45. that's the GOP talking point - a somebody else intelligence failure

Of course, the shill had to repeat it.

[neoblues]

2. How could you tell? heh... nt.

[BeyondGeography]

3. Saw that as well

The low point was when Ricks said we are in Act III of a five-act tragedy and we might look back at 2006 in a few years and say it wasn't that bad.

Maybe Russert was pondering the stupidity of self-inflicted wounds...

[soothsayer]

7. Well, act V is either redemption or catastrophe. Wonder which

he foresees

[BeyondGeography]

20. The latter

[existentialist]

5. Actually, I saw it too

Although I don't have a television, I was at (and am) my Father's house, and it was on.

It seemed to be a different Russert than I have seen before.

[Benhurst]

6. Yeah, looked sort of like Piggy in Lord of the Flies.

[welshTerrier2]

8. Russert's bullshit comment about WMD

i didn't pay much attention to Russert's reaction to Ricks ...

what i did take exception to, however, was Russert's bullshit comment where he said no one ever suggested that Saddam didn't have any WMD ... well, Scott Ritter sure suggested it ... here's what Ritter, probably the single person most familiar with Saddam's weapons programs, had to say ... Russert swept that under the rug just a wee bit too quickly, didn't he?

source: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,351165,00.html

I have never given Iraq a clean bill of health! Never! Never! I've said that no one has backed up any allegations that Iraq has reconstituted WMD capability with anything that remotely resembles substantive fact. To say that Saddam's doing it is in total disregard to the fact that if he gets caught he's a dead man and he knows it. Deterrence has been adequate in the absence of inspectors but this is not a situation that can succeed in the long term. In the long term you have to get inspectors back in.

Iraq's borders are porous. Why couldn't Saddam have obtained the capacity to produce WMD since 1998 when the weapons inspectors left?

I am more aware than any UN official that Iraq has set up covert procurement funds to violate sanctions. This was true in 1997-1998, and I'm sure its true today. Of course Iraq can do this. The question is, has someone found that what Iraq has done goes beyond simple sanctions violations? We have tremendous capabilities to detect any effort by Iraq to obtain prohibited capability. The fact that no one has shown that he has acquired that capability doesn't necessarily translate into incompetence on the part of the intelligence community. It may mean that he hasn't done anything.

[sandnsea]

34. And inspectors was the answer to that

Scott Ritter DID NOT say he KNEW Iraq didn't have WMD. He said the EXACT OPPOSITE, he said he DIDN'T KNOW.

That is the entire point of the IWR, have the threat of force to take to the UN to get inspectors back into Iraq so that the world would KNOW. The IWR was not the problem, Bush's abuse of it and manipulations AFTER are how we ended up in a war. If the letter of the IWR had been followed, we'd have never gone to war because Bush couldn't PROVE Iraq had WMD that was a grave danger but he lied and deployed troops anyway. Anybody who made that vote the issue for the last 3 years has helped Bush avoid responsibility for starting a war against the terms of the IWR.

[justgamma]

37. The inspectors were in Iraq

Shrub pulled them out. The UN (France and Germany) wanted more time for them to look, but Shrub couldn't take a chance, that they would come up with no weapons.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-17-inspectors-iraq_x.htm

[sandnsea]

38. That's exactly right, Bush did

How did they get into Iraq?? The IWR.

[Donna Zen]

39. Imminent threat

Everyone leaves that off of the statement regarding the WMD. How would anyone swear that Saddam did or didn't have any WMD, but plenty of people said that Iraq posed no imminent threat. bush was counting on finding some forgotten vial of some crap to covering his warmonger ass.

So, do we wage war on countries that cannot threaten us?

Looking at the corollary: what attacking Iraq would mean to the Gulf, there was not a doubt in mind what would happen, endless war. I knew it then, I know more now. So tell me again why people voted to give bush a blank check. All of them knew, but some of them thought that "cleaning the swamp" was a good idea. In reality, the entire concept was flawed.

Wrecking my country really pisses me off.

I didn't see Russert. He's either feigning surprise or he is extremely dumb.

[DURHAM D]

9. Does anyone know if this show will be re-broadcast ? eom

[Democrat 4 Ever]

11. What is the name of the show? I'll do a search on the satellite for

re-broadcasting times. Thanks.

[welshTerrier2]

12. doesn't look like it will

here's a link to CNBC's tv schedule for the show: http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CNBCTV/TV_Info/P2100.asp

The name of the show, btw, is just "Tim Russert"

[caledesi]

21. It usually rebroadcasts on Sundays. Check for time and station. nt

[grasswire]

33. I'll try to get a transcript tomorrow...

...although that won't show Russert's serious manner.

[Eric J in MN]

13. A feeling of guilt on the part of Tim Russert...

...for voting for Bush in 2000?

[The Backlash Cometh]

14. Well, good. Maybe the effects of the polyjuice are wearing off and

he'll soon stop looking and acting like a dick.

[HereSince1628]

19. But Congress is still under the Imperius Curse

And the DLC has torn the soul of the Democratic Party into pieces and scattered them in Horcruxes.

[The Backlash Cometh]

25. Curse the Whorecruxes!

[HereSince1628]

27. Personally I'd like to see them found, gathered, and their contents

subjected to a Repario spell.

But that may mean destorying the DLC Inferi guarding them.

[The Backlash Cometh]

28. Must you stay in character?

Okay, have it your way. I can't figure out what's going to be harder. Finding everyone's soul or repairing them.

[HereSince1628]

29. I'm not in character. To make this mess Dark Magic must be at work

while the Democratic Ministry of Magic fumbles around and can't get their act together.

[The Backlash Cometh]

35. Harumph! This is a job for the Room of Requirement!

For we are in great need.

[HereSince1628]

36. Watch it! There's Peeves!

Somehow my mental image of Peeves is very Rovesque.

[AndyA]

16. At some point, most people are going to have a "WTF?" moment.

It is obviously coming VERY LATE for some, and is still to come for others, but I think a lot more people will be getting hit in the face with the reality that they've been had. They've been supporting an administration and a party for all the wrong reasons. And when it does finally hit, it will be as if the rug got yanked out from under them, and then they'll see what others have been seeing for years.

Of course there will be some who will deny it anyway, others will know exactly what is going on but support it anyway to save face, and others are benefiting from it, so why change?

The more that happens, the more examples of an uncaring Bush and a corrupt GOP, the better off we are. And there's always more to come.

I think Russert has known what's going on for a very long time, but it's hard to argue against the facts when you have people who are recognized as being credible. Maybe he's about to stop fighting the fight for the right wing and tell it like it is. We'll see what he says and does in the days to come.

[glitch]

22. When they consider their own role in abetting the criminals, they will

look and feel a lot sicker. Suicidal even, especially if they are famous and realize their names will be linked to their collaboration through the rest of human history (for however long that lasts).

[goclark]

26. No, he won't stop whoring because they won't by his crappy books

and give him money under the table and the right to keep his sorry ass in front of our TV every second.

There are few people that I can not stand and he is one of them.

There are so many QUALITY news people that should have his position and we get him.

Why, because he is bought and paid for by the NeoCons. :puke:

[BlueManDude]

17. Ricks has credibility with the likes of Russert 'cause he's from the WaPo

still I thought Rickss assertion that they decided to go to war after Cheney's speech in Aug 03 to the VFW was utter bullshit.

It was decided well before that.

[glitch]

24. Agreed. I heard him being interviewed yesterday and I thought "limited

hangout" although a more thorough one than most. Can't stray too far from home.

[BlueManDude]

40. Ricks could never bring himself to believe the awful truth

he's not capable at this point of grasping the enormity of this crime. he's a creature of the beltway, thoroughly inured with respect for people in high places. maybe someday.

[samsingh]

31. i don't think Israel is any safer

as a result of the neocons blunders in the middle east and dismantling democracy in the US.

bush has spent over 200 billion $ and terrorism has been strengthened. this does not help Israel.

[Disturbed]

42. Russert has been a RW shill since 2000.

He toes the line for his Masters at GE, Defense Contractor.

[AX10]

46. Russert is a corporate media ho. He knows that he is an enabler...

for Bush and the Neo-Cons. This November, their house of cards will fall.