if repubs retain control of the congress this year despite exit polls....

[Gato Moteado]

...to the contrary on election day, what will you do?

[Chipper Chat]

1. Work for secession of the blue states.

Hell with Florida, we'll still have California.

[Clark2008]

16. That's an idiotic statement.

The "blue" states are still very "red" in the rural areas. The difference between red and blue states is that there are more rural areas in the red states.

The problem isn't individual states: it's rural vs. urban - in EVERY state.

We're all more purple than blue or red.

[Greyhound]

22. That's an idiotic statement.

It is about artificial divisions created by the takers to distract the producers from their interests.

Red-Blue is a facade since neither party has the producers interests at heart. Rural working class and Urban working class have far more in common than either of them have with the ruling class.

An overwhelming majority of citizens are "liberal" or "progressive", it's just that they don't know it because nobody is telling them they are.

[FILAM23]

27. Having lived in many states, both red and blue

I have to disaagree, I think an overwelming majority are
conservative on some issues and liberal on others.

[Greyhound]

31. As have I. From Iowa City to Atlanta to LA to NYC and a couple of

places in between including the reddest part of AZ where I am now (for the time-being), I've found most people want their government to take care of those that can't care for themselves, they want quality education for their children, they want to preserve their community assets for their communities, and they want the government to get the hell out of their private lives. IOW, they are what is traditionally a liberal society.

One of our biggest problems is the perception, and it is frequently valid, that the Democrats want to dictate too many aspects of their lives and have bought into the re:puke: propaganda that they will give them most of these things. They just want ot be able to raise their families in peace and keep what they work so hard for. They only object to taxes when they see the politiwhores of both parties wasting them. They want the liberty to decide what is best for their community, within the community, and deeply resent it when outsiders come, bearing the force of governmental violence, to force their views on them.

They are eventually accepting of new ideas when those ideas are fair and true, though it may take some time, and usually see the merits of the good ones that come along.

I don't think we are really in disagreement, except in the definition of the terms conservative and liberal, and it is not a mistake that those definitions have become amorphous and/or muddled.

Oh, and nearly everyone wants peace.

[Clark2008]

36. We're both right.

The reason the rural voters are so "red" is because the only media they have is so Republican! The only thing most rural voters hear on their commutes to the city for work is InSannity and Limpballs and Savage.

I didn't say WHY there is a division, but it's stupid to think there isn't one between rural and urban voters. I think the difference is the access to various forms of media, from the very conservative to the moderate to the very middle.

[lgn19087]

49. Wish that were true, but

"An overwhelming majority of citizens are "liberal" or "progressive", it's just that they don't know it because nobody is telling them they are."

Do you have any facts to back this up?

The right-wing has brainwashed our youth since early childhood. I don't know how you figure an "overwhelming majority" are liberal and progressive...a huge number of would-be progressives are eradicated by the 24 hour propaganda being fed to them.

i'd like to see some facts to back up this assertion.

[longship]

2. Ain't gonna happen.

There's no way that happens. So why posit this scenerio?

The House is absolutely going to be in Democratic Party hands. The Senate is most likely going to also have a Democratic Party majority (with one or two Independants caucusing with the Dems).

My feeling is there's going to be seven or eight new Dem Senate seats and upwards of fifty new Dem House seats.

The numbers are outside the boundaries anybody has ever seen in recent political history, so nobody of any import is going to be predicting this.

However, the handwriting is on the wall. Unfortunately for the Repukes, their hard, no compromise political ideology will not allow them to change course. That is what is going to be their downfall. They're going to be hoisted on their own petard. If another terror attack happens, it will only punctuate what people have already decided on their own, that the Repukes are incompetent, ideological boobs.

People remember what eight years of peace and prosperity looks like. The public has turned against this regime and are not about to change their minds and vote for the Repukes again.

The people are tired of the saber-rattling, the fear-mongering, the political games. None of that is going to work this time.

Lincoln's words, "You can't fool all the people all the time," is going to come home to roost in a very big way in November.

[Gato Moteado]

4. what about the exit polls in FL in 2000 and in OH in 2004?

i agree with you that the majority of the people want the repukes out. i'm just pointing out the fact that with the help of electronic voting machines the repukes have been able to win elections when exit polls dictated otherwise.

[longship]

8. Simple. 2000 and 2004 are *not* 2006.

Things are entirely different this year. Turning a single election in one or two states is one thing. Turning this upcoming tsunami around is going to be impossible. Almost anything the Repukes are likely to do will work against them.

Not a single Democratic Party seat is in serious jeopardy this year. Not one.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

7. I think "despide exit polls" was meant to imply a scenario of fraud.

In hopeful moments I agree with you that there's no way that the GOP will legitimately hold a majority. Perhaps the "saber-rattling, the fear-mongering, the political games" won't work, but voting machines designed to be easily hacked...? So what will you do if it's clear that they stole seats in Congress like they stole the White House? If you play by the rules but the rules themselves are shown to be a sham, do you keep obeying the rules? I don't know what I'll do, but this scenario does call to mind the words of sociologists Piven & Cloward: "Violence is the political expression of the politically powerless." (I also recall Isaac Azimov's saying, "Violence is the last resort of the incompetent," but I've come to understand this as horribly bourgeois, or at least blindly middle-class.) The Piven & Cloward quote explains the logic of the L.A. riots following the Rodney King verdict, but what will disenfranchised voters do when if it's evident that the political problem does not have a political solution?

[longship]

10. Read my reply, immediately above yours.

Gaming one election (presidential) in a single area where one has allies counting the votes is one thing. But gaming hundreds of races nationwide is an entirely different matter. Counting votes is a local jurisdiction. They won't be able to Diebold this.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

12. I disagree.

Presidential ballots were handled locally, too. I participated in the 2004 recount. In OHio, the Secretary of State is Kenneth Blackwell and, like Kathering Harris in 2000, was on the Bush team. The 2 Dems and 2 Repubs on the county Board of Elections vote on which provisional ballots to count, and Blackwell serves as tiebreaker in case of a tie. Guess what they chose to do with left-leaning precincts. In the neighborinig rural county, a technicial was caught tampering with a machine and posting a "cheat sheet" before the recount. The BOE officer who reported it was fired. Mant BOE people know which buttons to push and have faith that once the data is out of their hands, it's secure. Perhaps it does not have to go anywhere to be tampered with. The attitude that any race is too small for elecronic tampering isn't very consructive. Let's not assume it'll happen, but please don't summarily dismiss the scenario like our wise news anchors always do. Will a 50-state vote-skimming operation be so big that the media and the people will have to take notice? Well, in all the MSM reporting on 2004 in Ohio, it seems 99% of it was about long lines, which is a "get over it" complaint. Nothing about precincts with impossibly high or low turnout, statistically impossible surges for the incumbent, or the "terror alert" that gave one BOE opportunity to "count" votes without observers. There were so many violations of law in the recount that one might have expected some attention fro mthe Fifth Estate. Rovian slime tactics, misleading polls, the alliance of all major media outlets, and whatever last-minute "success" they will unveil in Iraq -- these things can keep the races close enough and provide some excuse for why polls (where they're allowed) were off, should they steal the midterms.

[Le Taz Hot]

19. Excellent:

"The attitude that any race is too small for electronic tampering isn't very constructive." I understand the OP's construct here, but your response puts it all back in to perspective. It's a point I tried make with our local Election Board Supervisor, i.e., it is imperative that voters are confident their votes are a) being counted and b) being counted accurately. This is true whether it be in a presidential election or a City Council election and is, of course, the cornerstone of a democracy.

[O.M.B.inOhio]

20. Notice politicians do talk of confidence... not veracity.

Thanks. It strikes me that you can achieve confidence in the electoral process by 1) ensuring that it is transparent and difficult to tamper with, or 2) by suppressing/dismissing information about its flaws.
I was sickened by the Senate, except Boxer, on January 6. Kerry was absent. Obama was "absolutely confident" that the November election was legitimate but took the opportunity to pontificate about how nice it is to vote. Open minded people would have listened more. But when they did talk about good elections, it was all about restoring Americans' *confidence* that their vote is counted. Nothing about paper trails, "proprietary" voting machine code, and certainly no debate about whether it is important that election results have to be delivered on election night. I listened to the presentations on CSPAN online, until they cut it off for something utterly banal. Treat people who talk about election fraud like you treat people who demand declassification of Area 51 -- that's the strategy for restoring confidence in American elections.
Peace

[longship]

29. Screeching about stolen elections does nothing to advance our agenda

I agree that there was funny business in 2000, 2002, and 2004.

However, screeching about it now is useless, and likely counter productive. We cannot do much about the situation until we are in the majority again.

That can *only* happen if we continue to work the program. We've got to gather together to make the only change that will make any difference. That is, get a Democratic Party majority in both sides of Congress this November.

The sole way to do that is to put foot to the pavement and checkbook in hand.

I agree that the election system is seriously broken. But unless you do this simple thing, it will never get fixed. November is going to be a tsunami. Diebold is not going to help the Repukes in all those races. If you are worried about the voting, stop writing about it here and volunteer as a poll watcher.

Thanks for your time.

[Gato Moteado]

30. hey, i'm on your side....

...i was only asking what you would do in the event that the repukes hold onto total power despite exit polls showing democratic majorities everywhere.

it could happen whether we hit the pavement with our checkbook in hand or not.

what will you do?

[longship]

33. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

Right now I'm focussed like a laser on getting the majority back. That includes making sure that our votes count. I've volunteered as a poll watcher. That won't do much good here in California, but if we have enough people in all the places, there's no way we're going to get caught off-guard again this time.

Howard Dean is working the voter program, too. The Dems should therefore have this action well covered. At least I hope they will.

Things we all can do:

* Write letters to newspaper editors.
* Write letters to the DNC, the DSCC, etc.
* Call, FAX, and e-mail your Congress critters.
* Volunteer as a poll watcher.
* Volunteer at your local Democratic Party organization.
* Ask to be appointed as a precinct committeeperson.
* Go to local Dem meetings.
* Walk precincts with/for a candidate.
* Lick stamps, stuff envelopes, sort bulk mailings, etc.
* Give until it hurts.

[calimary]

47. YES! Focus like a laser on getting the majority back.

LOVE it, longship!

We take back the House, at least, and that means IMPEACHMENT hearings can begin. And for those who nitpick and claim - ooooooooh, partisanship! - the answer is simple, as is the response:

You're either FOR accountability in your elected leaders, OR YOU'RE AGAINST IT.

[blm]

32. Securing the machines BEFORE the election IS NEEDED and what

Dems should focus on.

NO one should be about the business of just forgetting about HOW the votes were stolen, because moving on without doing anything to assure it doesn't happen again is OBSCENE.

[longship]

35. I presume that this means that you *have* volunteered as a poll watcher.

nt

[blm]

37. Securing the machines BEFORE THE ELECTION - after is too late.

I'll be working at Dem HQ in NC on election day.

[longship]

40. I don't understand one thing.

We screech (all of us) about the electoral abuse.

But what definitive things can we do to fix this thing?
With people like Blackwell counting the votes, what can we do?

So far, the repukes have depended on close elections to tweak the system. Diddling with a 1% swing in a race here and there might not be detected (even though we're pretty sure that we *have* detected it). But it's not going to be easy tweaking dozens of races across the country, in both red and blue states, with Secy's of State which might not be cooperative or friendly to the repukes. Furthermore, many of these Repukes are in big, big trouble. It is very likely that the margin will be too large for any sub rosa diddling. However, we do need to make sure that any messing around is going to be detected and exposed.

The best solution is to make voting rights the law of the land with appropriate large penalties. Every citizen has the right to have their votes counted. But this ain't gonna happen as long as the Repukes are in power.

The second best solution is to make oversight so prevalent that it becomes very difficult for anybody to game the system without being detected. That's why I feel strongly that every poll should be manned by the maximum number of poll watchers allowed by law. At hot spots (OH, GA, FL, etc.) there needs to be teams of people placed prominently to observe the entire voting and vote counting process. Where there are shenanigans, there needs to be lawyers in place to immediately make the proper filings in front of a judge to fix the problem *NOW*. Dem party leaders need to leverage their press connections to get the word out *quickly*, even within minutes of a putative infraction. We need cameras-on-the-scene and appropriate spokespersons in place at the time the infraction is occurring.

In the last days before election day, party leaders need to explain to the world that Democrats will not tolerate any shenanigans on election day (on either side!!), that the Party is going to have people in place across the nation and that this is going to be the most closely watched election in the nation's history.

If you are worried about the vote confidence, these are the things we can do.

What else can we do?

[blm]

43. Dean needs to make certain that all Dem election board members are

schooled in what to expect and how to secure the machines and to test their software throughout the day.

He should also hold the mother of all press conferences in the weeks before the election to SHOW the American people HOW the machines CAN get rigged and have a panel of computer scientists standing with him in the mother of all Show and Tells.

[longship]

46. That would help.

Dean *must* make it perfectly clear that during this election we will have more eyes on the process than ever before. He should use words like, "This will be the most closely watched election in history."

Let the Repukes even dare to try something funny.

[FloridaPat]

15. They did it in 2002.

[Gato Moteado]

28. great posts OMB, all of them

you're able to articulate this stuff in a way i'm just not able to.

so, what do you think the response by the thinking public will be in a scenario i described? what should the response be?

i can't condone violence, ever. i just don't think it solves anything. we're better than freeper filth. yet, just like the nazis had to be dealt with in WWII, something would need to be done after a total power take over by the fascist repuke party. with electronic voting you can connect the dots and see where they lead.

at times i've thought maybe it would be a good idea to just lay down and let the repukes take complete control instead of prolonging the disaster. if they had complete control and got deep enough into their anti-freedom agenda maybe the sheeple would wake up sooner and rise up and put the republican party out of our misery and into the same place in the history books as the third reich.

[Kiouni]

3. i found out since

my grandparents were lithuanian i can claim citizenship! screw you GOP i'm moving to Europe.

[Subdivisions]

5. Hey! I'm of Lithuanian descent also!

My grand-parents emmigrated here after escaping German occupation in WWII.

[Kiouni]

9. seriously i have read

up on this if your great grandparents are lithuanian you can claim citizenship and since their apart of EU you can work anywhere! check it out.

[leftofthedial]

6. change channels

or maybe put in a DVD

[countmyvote4real]

11. If only it were that simple to accept or ignore fascism.

Dream on, my friend or wake TF up. It's happening in real time despite of your DVD diversions.

[Clark2008]

17. I think their point is that the sheeple won't do squat.

I don't think the poster meant that he or she will change the channel or pop in a DVD. The poster meant the SHEEPLE will not do a damn thing, thanks to the corporate media's manipulation of their brains.

[leftofthedial]

21. sorry. I was being momentarily sarcastic

about how Murkans are ignorant and apathetic.

("momentarily" in my case means the last 45 years)

I will continue to fight until I can't any longer. If despotic neocon, neotheo fascism continues to thwart democracy, it will be time for more desperate measures than just talking about it.

[Sherman A1]

13. Exit polls or not

I fully expect the Republicans to hold both houses of Congress. I really hope they don't, but I expect it to be so. I think too many factors are in the mix, electronic voting, district alignments, money, etc. I just don't see a Democratic overthrow--- Hope I am wrong.

[Skarbrowe]

14. The theft has begun. Gallup's latest poll numbers...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601070&sid=aamXkc.kmAEA&refer=home

It doesn't matter if Gallup polls more to the right, I just assume this is the beginning of the "closing the gap" between who wants Democrats over Republicans in the mid-term elections. TWO POINT difference now. Whether it's true or not doesn't matter. It just makes what happens the day of the election more believable to people who either aren't paying attention or who want it to be stolen..again.

I'm not ready to break out the champagne just yet.

[Greyhound]

23. They began the campaign to lower expectations two months ago.

As we move closer to November, we'll see more and more "polls" showing how, in spite of the common perception, the Re:puke:s will gain ground and "it looks like it will be very close", then the vote-counting games will begin.

The re:puke:s need to retain control of one house (probably the Senate) in order to give cover for the politiwhores to avoid investigations and prosecutions of the blatant criminality they have engaged in for these last six years.

[mmonk]

18. The same thing.

Shout at deaf ears and support progressive candidates in the next election. What else is there except to leave?

[madville]

24. Most people dislike

Most people I know that don't really follow politics dislike both parties but they have to vote for someone and want to feel like their vote counts. The only thing working to the Republicans advantage right now is that they are running against Democrats and they still have a substantial core of people out there that dislike Democrats more regardless of how unsatisfied they are with the Republicans. They haven't even really started brainwashing the TV zombies yet with the $40,000,000 they are about to spend on advertising for the close House races, the polls in a couple of months will be much closer.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[onenote]

26. House -- probably, Senate -- maybe, maybe not

I think the most optimistic scenarios (including the one posted in this thread) simply do not take into account the power of incumbency today. Most districts aren't competitive and given off-year turn-out, the chances of capturing the House are not great (albeit not impossible), although the margine should be narrowed considerably. We're still more than two months out from the election and a lot can happen in those two months. Polls and predictions made now are pretty much guesses.

As for the Senate, I tend to agree that recapturing it outright will be tough as well. However, there is a chance that the Democrats will cut into the margin enough to make the task of blocking certain actions (ANWR, for example) a bit easier than its been in the past. We also may see a bit more independence from certain repubs as they try to save their hides before 2008.

[blm]

38. RFK is now a loser spouting stupidity to you?

.

[alcibiades_mystery]

39. If he's a stolen election lunatic

then yes.

We lost. The sooner we come to grips with that, the sooner we win again.

[blm]

41. Well RFK is winning converts, including Bill Clinton who now believes

that Ohio was likely stolen.

[longship]

42. You're one of those glass always half-empty guys, eh?

So, my friend, what are you doing to fix these problems?

Have you volunteered to poll watch?
Have you written letters to newspaper editors?
Have you written to your Congress Critters?
Have you contacted your local party and volunteered?

Or, is this just another hopeless case? Maybe we ought to all just give up.

Sorry for the sarcasm, but you are being very negative here.
Maybe I can convince you to consider trying some hope.

Peace.

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. Yes, your assumption that I have no hope has convinced me...

:eyes:

[longship]

45. I've been calling it a tsunami all over this site.

I see a Dem majority in both sides of the Capital next January.

Up to fifty more Dem seats. Possibly seven or eight more Senate seats (including the possible I-Lieberman, who I think still loses to Lamont).

There is not a single Dem seat in serious jeopardy at this time. Even the embattled Rep. Melissa Bean (IL) has begun to pull away from her opposition. Shit. Even Jean Schmidt may be having problems with an opponent who has next to no money. Apparently, her opponent has more money on hand than Jean, who has spent it all and has had to lend her own campaign money this past quarter.

This is going to be a big Democratic Party year. Today, even Novakula was predicting a 25 seat House turn over.

I say that we get the House easily, and have a better than even chance for an honest majority in the Senate.

[alcibiades_mystery]

48. Yeah, and my Phillies fan buddy thinks they're gonna win the World Series

Partisans are always optimists...

[Eric J in MN]

34. Keep donating to "Verified Voting," etc.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org