BILL WINTER, CO-06: Don't support Democrats... (a MUST READ)

[Oreo]

Bill Winter is EXACTLY who the Dems need to back to win a House seat.
Not only would we be rid of Tom Tancredo but we would have someone that is a veteran and isn't afraid to say we need to take the Republicans to task on the mess they've made.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/12/103549/223
BILL WINTER, CO-06: Don't support Democrats...
by Bill Winter
Sat Aug 12, 2006 at 07:35:49 AM PDT

Don't support Democrats...
...who won't stand up proudly for the things you believe in.

...who believe that "moving to the center" is the way to win votes.

...who think being more like "them" is the way to win back America.

...who won't walk a picket line with you.

...who won't call for an immediate plan to end the war in Iraq.

...who won't call for serious oversight of the President--any President.

...who won't openly support your right to marry anyone YOU choose and keep the darn government out of it!

...who won't openly support your right to make your own choices about what happens to your body in every situation.

...who won't stand up for stem cell research and funding.

...who won't fight to protect the environment so our children and their children will still have a world they can live in.

...who won't proudly fight for a living wage.

...who won't make education as high a priority as the military.

...who won't stand up strong for the least among us.

...who won't put people over profit every time.

So what did I forget? Post your additions below and I will weigh in later today.

I'm tired of candidates who make me feel like I should be embarrassed to believe what I believe. I'm tired of getting them elected. I'm not going to curl up in a corner any more and say "Please don't hurt me!"

The only way we will ever start getting Democrat leaders with courage is to stop supporting wishy washy move to the center to get along types, and start supporting people who are proud of what they stand for and will stand up and fight.

The American people believe what we believe. What's missing is leadership and I'm going to provide it!

I'm going to come out swinging for regular hard working Americans, and I'm going to fight for the things we need and the government we deserve!

If you want to fight too, I welcome you aboard. We have a world to change and lives to save!

But if you don't have the stomach for it, then stay the hell out of the way! (and yeah, that includes you, Joe--you have forfeited the right to be called Senator!)

"I too am not a bit tamed....I too am untranslatable,
I sound my barbaric yawp across the rooftops of the world."
Walt Whitman

Bill Winter
http://www.winterforcongress.com

[Dhalgren]

1. Great Gods Above! This is what the Democrats need and more

of it! This should be the voice of the whole damned party! The Party needs more muscular Democrats who will stand up for what he or she believes in and takes no shit from anybody! Bravo! and about damned time!

[acmavm]

2. Yes, he is. And that's why they won't support him. He's

everuything they're not.

[Hawkeye-X]

3. That's why I proudly support him

and have contributed some money to him.

I like the thought of having ZERO Rethuglicans in Colorado representing the Congress, and 1 Rethuglican Senator that will be swiftly booted out in '08, and a DINO (Lieberman-supporter with 30% Democratic record) replaced in '10.

Hawkeye-X

[Oreo]

5. I didn't realize you were my neighbor!

:hi:

[Hawkeye-X]

7. Heh. DeGette is my rep

And will easily be re-elected so I'm just looking outside of my district and see what I can do to help.

Hawkeye-X

[xchrom]

4. ya know ya look around at the calamities wrought by bushco --

and bingo up pops a saint.

[alcibiades_mystery]

6. I contain platitudes...

:rofl:

[paulk]

8. this will get him votes at dKos

but it won't get him votes in CO - 06.

There are two seats in CO that Democrats have a realistic chance of taking from the Republicans: CO - 07 and CO - 04. Those are the races that Coloradans with money to spare should be donating to, IMO.

---------------


Also - for Mr. Winters to be setting conditions under which it's allowable to be a Democrat falls, to me at least, under the headings of not only arrogant, but stupid.

Especially in light of stories like these:

http://www.westerndemocrat.com/2006/08/republicans_for....

http://www.csindy.com/csindy/current/news3.html


edited for html problem

[wyldwolf]

10. correct you are. On all points

Short sighted and full of red herrings to boot. I don't know of any Democrat who fails to meet even 90% of the criteria he sets up.

Take Lieberman and Hillary Clinton, for example. Two Democrats who are centrists and/or have moved to the center to garner votes.

Do they fail to pass these tests? Well, only if you loosely apply a few vague ones like "...who won't stand up strong for the least among us" and "...who won't put people over profit every time."

This is just a post meant to get hi-fives in an echo chamber.

[IronLionZion]

9. Oh I so hope he beats Tancredo!

Good luck. We can always use a good Democrat in Congress. :patriot:

[applegrove]

11. You could fit such "only worthy" Dems in a PUP-TENT! Good luck with that

[applegrove]

12. These Dems have the support of 25% of the American Populus.

Will be very hard for them to get any seats at all. 40% of Americans vote moderate. 35% vote right wing.

And out of all of these.. most the 35% right-wingers show up to vote. Total turnout is 65%. (100% - 65% = 35%) And that leave 30% of the remaining moderates and lefties..who don't even bother to vote at all. 30% of 65% is 21%. Which is less than half? Even if all the moderates voted Dem, we still would not win unless we get some righties to vote Dem, or if we get all the 'stay at homes' out to vote. Or some combination thereof.

Now you know why the GOP is working so hard in places like Ohio to suppress voter registration.

You will not win unless you go with a mixture of moderates and lefties. It is as simple as that.

Fortunately, the list does include most moderates. But in conservative states.. you may have to accept a more conservative Dem. That is just the only way. That the numbers will add up.

This is one time, when if you have a conservative type Dem on the slate, you have to hold your nose and vote. Don't vote for a third party candidate. Don't vote Repuke. But vote G-D-mitt! Vote Dem. No matter what. Even if they start attaching electrodes to your head... you walk up to that voting machine and press the buttons.. ya here!!

[bvar22]

14. Shamefully, you are correct.

You are correct.
It is long past time for reform in the Democratic Party.
But don't loose heart America!
The winds of change are blowing, and the times they are a changing!

The PEOPLE deserve representation in Washington!

In recent polls by the Pew Research Group, the Opinion Research Corporation, the Wall Street Journal, and CBS News, the American majority has made clear how it feels. Look at how the majority feels about some of the issues that you'd think would be gospel to a real Democratic party:

1. 65 percent (of ALL Americans, Democrats AND Republicans) say the government should guarantee health insurance for everyone -- even if it means raising taxes.

2. 86 percent favor raising the minimum wage (including 79 percent of selfdescribed "social conservatives").

3. 60 percent favor repealing either all of Bush's tax cuts or at least those cuts that went to the rich.

4. 66 percent would reduce the deficit not by cutting domestic spending but by reducing Pentagon spending or raising taxes.

5. 77 percent believe the country should do "whatever it takes" to protect the environment.

6. 87 percent think big oil corporations are gouging consumers, and 80 percent (including 76 percent of Republicans) would support a windfall profits tax on the oil giants if the revenues went for more research on alternative fuels.

7. 69 percent agree that corporate offshoring of jobs is bad for the U.S. economy (78 percent of "disaffected" voters think this), and only 22% believe offshoring is good because "it keeps costs down."


http://alternet.org/wiretap/29788/

8. Over 60% oppose the War on the Iraqi People.

9. 92% support TRANSPARENT, VERIFIABLE elections!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x446445


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[Robbien]

13. You are right, this is a must read

and this Bill Winter of yours is a keeper.

[emanymton]

15. Can't Even Agree To Call It Democratic Party!!

And this is my thousandth post at DU.

Am I wasting my effort to try to keep this important issue straight?


Bush Lied. People Died. Media Cheered.

[Oreo]

16. For the detractors...

Looks at what he wrote. These are all things that you would expect in any Dem you would vote for.
He is stating the Democratic platform and saying that too many candidates move to the center only to get elected. More candidates should stand up for what they believe in and not cave in only to get votes.

Compromise in our government is supposed to happen after you're elected... not before you win.

A lot of people here would vote for anybody over Tancredo.
Here is a Dem that is firm in his beliefs and people are writing him off because he doesn't like Dems that don't want an exit strategy for Iraq or that don't believe people should be able to chose what to do with their body.

[MH1]

17. Well, he misrepresented facts in a dailykos post and responded

insultingly when he was called on his inaccurate representation.

He is better than Tancredo but I am sorry CO-06 can't find someone with more honor, and the spine and decency to admit when they are wrong.

I suspect there is at least one backstabbed large fundraiser who will send their money elsewhere in the future, since the previous donations weren't appreciated. Of course, said fundraiser is a lot better person than me, and will probably do what's best even if it means sending more money to a guy who backstabs him.

[Oreo]

18. Do you have a link?

I'd be interested to read what you're talking about.

[MH1]

25. see post below - sorry to take so long to get back to this. nt

[Oreo]

19. I went through all of Winter's posts and found nothing

that fits your description. Until you back up your claim I really think it's spineless too call him spineless ;)

The only place I saw somebody question him was here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/3/183835/9336

Don't take this as hostile, but... (3+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
danmac, PatsBard, Bill Winter

...there seems to be something of a disconnect between this--

I never saw anything remotely like combat. I simply did my job and showed up and followed orders. In the Navy I served with distinction and received many awards, but I never served in a combat zone.

--and this--

I've slept in holes I dug, and eaten rations from a plastic bag and looked at another human being down the sights of an M-16 or a machine gun.... I've seen men wounded and killed. I've felt hot blood flow over my hands from the stump where a man's leg used to be.

I presume there's a logical explanation that removes the apparent contradiction--but I'd like to see it. (Think of it as a prep against the moment on the campaign trail when/if this gets thrown at you.)

May I bow to Necessity not/ To her hirelings (W. S. Merwin)

which he answered (quite well) with this:

These are all things that are... (2+ / 0-)

Recommended by:
OLinda, bumblebums, Uncle Cosmo

...a part of the every day experience in the military, even without combat.

I was in an artillery unit in the Marine Corps. That's a combat unit, and we spent a great deal of time "in the field" practicing what we did. I spent part of that time in the security platoon for the battery. We set up a security perimeter and walked patrols. We often trained at 29 Palms in the California desert, where it would routinely be 110 degrees during the day.

We would spend days and weeks in the field sleeping in holes, eating combat rations, and working. I saw one guy get his leg run over by one of the guns. I saw another lose a hand.

In the Navy I worked on F-14 fighter aircraft. Being around airplanes is just plain dangerous, and being on the flightdeck of a carrier during flight ops even more so. One day when I was working on a plane on our flightline at Miramar, I heard an explosion. I looked to the next flightline to see two guys on the ground.

A tire they were changing had exploded. My friend and I were the first two on the scene. One guy had his leg blown off at the knee, and the other had his arm blown off at the elbow. I used my belt as a tourniquet for the guy's leg while my friend did the same for the other guy's arm until emergency help arrived.

On two occasions I saw airplanes fly into the ground with the crew still on board. On a typical six month cruise on a carrier it isn't unusual for ten or more members of the crew to be killed in one way or another.

Many jobs in the military are just plain dangerous in their own right, with or without combat. That's why it is so wrong to denigrate anyone's service for not seeing combat. Everyone in the military serves and sacrifices in some way.

Hope that clears it up.

Bill Winter

[Oreo]

21. Or this...

where he says just because he gets a donation doesn't obligate him to do anything specific for the one donating.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/8/3/45534/84488

I'm sorry but... (0 / 0)

...you are absolutely wrong.

You stated the following:

And the politician who accepts money from a third-party, be it Focus on the Family, the NRA, or the Teamsters, has no choice but to speak for that party: he has tied his own hands. You scratch my back, I scratch yours.

I reject that logic completely. I can't speak for anyone but myself, but a donation to my campaign buys you nothing except the possibility that I will win and provide competent, caring leadership.

No campaign donation opens any doors to me in the future. No campaign donation requires me, obligates me, or in any way pressures me to scratch anyone's back or vote for anyone's bill.

You frame it in terms of corruption. I frame it in terms of integrity.

Say what you will but I reject your premise entirely!

Bill Winter
http://winterforcongress.com/

by Bill Winter on Thu Aug 03, 2006 at 05:32:35 AM PDT

[MH1]

24. This diary

<http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/7/29/113359/979>

This post:

And who stood up with John Murtha... (0+ / 0-)

...to demand an exit from Iraq? Where was John Kerry's courage then?

I'll stand by what I said.

Congressman Murtha stood pretty much alone!

Bill Winter

NEVER FUCKING MIND that Kerry had called for an exit from Iraq before Murtha, AND Winter's original post, the meaning of which he now conveniently wants to change in the one quoted above, was that

And Congressman Murtha, you have my word, sir, that you will never stand alone again. If they want to challenge the honor of a United States Marine, then they are going to have to go through me to do it!

John Kerry was one of the FIRST - if not the first, I wasn't keeping score that close - to loudly and repeatedly, on the floor of the Senate and in emails to his list and more, to DEFEND MURTHA's HONOR.

When called on that, Winter a) changes his argument instead of admitting he was mistaken; b) even gets THAT argument wrong; and c) calls John Kerry a coward while he's about it - which is pretty fucking rank considering Kerry donated to his campaign. He doesn't have to agree with Kerry's position or call him a hero - but not insulting someone who is trying to help you, seems like a minor bit of respect one should wish.

ESPECIALLY when the whole thing started because he was talking about being right there to defend MURTHA'S honor, and then he goes and smears Kerry. Give me a fucking break.

The man isn't fit to shine Kerrry's shoes, in my book.

Maybe you feel that's a bit strong, but he showed what he's really made of in that thread, and it doesn't look too great.

On edit: but I'll still take him over Tancredo, which is why I didn't initially go into detail. I probably shouldn't have posted at all, but I am tired of seeing Winter held up as some beacon of light. He may be in some ways, but he's pretty flawed in others.

p.s. has Colorado held its primary yet? Are there other Dem candidates?

[Oreo]

29. Granted he shouldn't have questioned Kerry's courage

From reading Winter honestly didn't know about Kerry actually saying that he agreed with Murtha's plan.
I didn't see any more replies from him after several posts refuted his position and showed proof that Kerry supported a pullout both before Murtha's statement and right after it. Should he have apologized... probably.
You guys were on him like white on rice! He should hire you for his research staff. ;)

Show me a perfect person much less a perfect politician. They don't exist.

As for the voters of CO-6 voting Tancredo into 3 terms (he pledged he wouldn't run for a 4th). We will have to see. Maybe a Dem that stands firmly by what he says is enough to put him over the top. Maybe Ritter will help to put him over the top.
We won't know until election day. All I know is that I am with him on every view he has and I will do everything I can to help him win.

[paulk]

20. "things you would expect in any Dem"

That's great, but it's going to take more than Dems voting for him to win in Colorado's sixth district. Decrying Democrats who move to the center "only to get elected" is great when it comes time to beat your chest for the purity police, but elections aren't won with idealism - they're won with VOTES - and people in a district that have put Tom Tancredo in office four times aren't going to VOTE for this guy UNLESS he moves to the center.


Is this guy the best that Pat Waak could come up with in CO 6?

[Oreo]

22. What has Tancredo done that's centrist?

It seems like it's ok for repubs to be right wing nutbags but if a Dem shows any notion of having strong feelings for his beliefs that he's not running to win.

I haven't seen Tancredo going against his ignorant racist views to gain votes.

Maybe people are looking for a candidate that holds to his beliefs and doesn't bow down just to get votes?

[paulk]

26. Tancredo doesn't HAVE to go against his rascist

beliefs to win in that district! That's the whole point!

Winters can stand up for his beliefs all he wants, but unless those beliefs are shared by the majority of voters in his district, he's going to lose.

[Oreo]

30. And that's why he needs help getting his message out

Will more people vote for a veteran than somebody that deferred from Vietnam because of so called mental illness? Tancredo was well enough win an electoin 2 years later. Of course they can't question his mental illness in the campaign. If it was a boil on his ass it'd be a different story.

We'll have to wait and see

[KaptBunnyPants]

23. Why do the DLC types here never tell us what they mean by moderate?

If you believe his list is too left wing, please tell us why, specifically listing those points which are out of the mainstream of the country. The only thing I can see in that list that isn't supported by at least 60% of the country is gay marriage. Republicans support criminalizing abortion, supported by <40% of the country, they support not raising the minimum age, supported by <20% of the country, they support weakening environmental standards, which even the vast majority of their own party opposes. 80% of the country believes global warming is a serious problem that has to be dealt with, but the remaining 20% are all Republican elected officials. Yet, people here act like the American public won't vote for someone who they have disagreements with. Give the people something to vote for, and they will. The Republicans offer people fear, hate, and ignorance, but all DLC Democrats offer is the status quo from the 1980s.

We need real solutions that serve to reinforce our role as protector of the underclass, ie repeal of the taft-hartley act, nationalized health care, and dramatic increases of taxes for the wealthy along with tax relief for the poor. It's been 30 years of watching the country sink to the right, why are you guys happy with manning the continually rightward moving "center" of American politics? Do you think that your accommodation of the right will appease them?

[paulk]

27. So everyone who finds fault with this is a "DLC Type"?

That's a cheap argument.

Look - the point isn't what the rest of the country believe or support - it's what voters in Colorado's 6th District believe in and support. Since 1998 they've supported Tom Tancredo. That alone should tell you something...

I would gladly be proven wrong this November, but the best scenario I can see for your reasoning, as it pertains to CO-6, is to make you feel good about your political beliefs.

[KaptBunnyPants]

28. Fair enough, but I was talking more about the people above

who said that a pup tent could fill all the Democrats who qualify for such a list. Or that these ideals represent 30% of the country. As far as CO-6 goes, I don't presume to know what they think, I suppose we will see come election day. I'm just sick of seeing popular ideas being written off as part of the "looney left". The rational of "liberals support it, therefore America does not" is a disease that has afflicted us for far too long.