Clashing realities: Israeli troops vs. Bush

[ProSense]

Israeli troops criticize army, equipment

By BENJAMIN HARVEY, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 10 minutes ago

METULLA, Israel - Israeli soldiers returning from the war in Lebanon say the army was slow to rescue wounded comrades and suffered from a lack of supplies so dire that they had to drink water from the canteens of dead Hezbollah guerrillas.

"We fought for nothing. We cleared houses that will be reoccupied in no time," said Ilia Marshak, a 22-year-old infantryman who spent a week in Lebanon.

Marshak said his unit was hindered by a lack of information, poor training and untested equipment. In one instance, Israeli troops occupying two houses inadvertently fired at each other because of poor communication between their commanders.

"We almost killed each other," he said. "We shot like blind people. ... We shot sheep and goats."

In a nation mythologized for decisive military victories over Arab foes, the stalemate after a 34-day war in Lebanon has surprised many.

more...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060818/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_angry_soldiers_6

Any chance to get them to talk to the chronically delusional Bush?

Bush: In time, world will recognize Hezbollah's loss

Friday, August 18, 2006; Posted: 12:25 p.m. EDT (16:25 GMT)

CAMP DAVID, Maryland (AP) -- President Bush acknowledged Friday that it could take time for the people of Lebanon and the world to view the war between Israel and Hezbollah as a loss for the militant group.

"The first reaction of course of Hezbollah and its supporters is to declare victory. I guess I would have done the same thing if I were them," Bush said after a meeting with his economic advisers.

"Sometimes it takes people awhile to come to the sober realization of what forces create stability and what don't," he said. "Hezbollah is a force of instability."

Bush also expressed some disappointment with France's decision to offer just 400 soldiers to a U.N. peacekeeping force being developed to calm the situation in southern Lebanon. France was expected to lead the mission, and its announcement of such a small number led to doubts that the force would deploy quickly.

more...

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/08/18/bush.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

[bahrbearian]

1. I love Chimpies statement,,,,

"The first reaction of course of Hezbollah and its supporters is to declare victory. I guess I would have done the same thing if I were them," Bush said after a meeting with his economic advisers.
Mission Accomplished?

[pretzel4gore]

2. hahaha

well said!

[neoblues]

3. It's the way of things...

Israels IDF hasn't had any real threat and most Israeli's have enjoyed a relatively (relative to that of those first Israeli citizens and fighters) peaceful existence... naturally, the sinew tough, almost fanatical ferocity of the original Israeli armed forces would soften over such times. Perhaps this brief period of war will have served to provide them with much needed combat experience and open their eyes to the weaknesses in their current training and tactics. Then again, it showed them as no longer being worthy of the great respect/fear they once had--and given who they're up against, that's bad. Any perception of weakness is like blood in the water to a band of sharks. They may well have cause to appreciate the chance to have better prepared for combat before any greater hostilities break out somewhere (as, in the middle east, it seems it always will before too long).

As for shrubling... what a boob. Telling the whole world how dumb they must be for not seeing the great Hizbullah loss for what it is. He so thmart... Hizbullah does face coming home to bombed out ruins--that won them a tremendous victory in world opinion. And for the most part, most of the Lebanese and Hizbullah didn't have much in the way of wealth to lose anyway--they'll just look around at their neighbors who blame Israel more than them and think 'welcome to the club'. Meanwhile, funds and aid for rebuilding will flow into Lebanon and they will go about rebuilding their lives. Hizbullah will happily sit on their stocks of weapons/missiles and ignore the peacekeeping forces--which will probably do everything in their power to avoid noticing any Hizbullah (because it might mean they were supposed to forcibly eject them at great cost to themselves). No doubt Hizbullah will continue to occasionally lob a rocket towards Israel, but if the peacekeeping force works, they won't be able to do it en-masse the way they did--which should keep Israel pacified for the time being.

Meanwhile, back at the farm (ranch), little George went on thinking he did the right thing--imagining that provoking the hatred of millions upon millions of people world-wide won't come back to bite us on our private parts. Damn you George W. Bush, damn you to your own private hell.

[ProSense]

4. "President Bush is not renowned for nimble thought..."

President Bush is not renowned for nimble thought, yet within moments of the conflict beginning he had a formula that would engender a "lasting peace" rather than an immediate ceasefire. This formula, pursued in isolation from the international community (except the UK), allowed the conflict to drag painfully on, leaving a thousand civilians dead and up to a million displaced.

Despite its use of apparently overwhelming military might, Israel appears weakened; Hizbullah and its backers seem emboldened. Insecurity and disharmony reign, and the capacity of the UK government to influence or broker any regional political change has been dramatically reduced. Is this not cause for immediate question?

more...

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/labour/story/0,,1852852,00.html

[The Magistrate]

5. Locking

Discussion of Israel v. Lebanon, etc., is now permitted only in the Israel/Palestine forum, with the exception of fresh news items in Layest Breaking News. If you desire, you may re-post this in the proper forum.