Non-Christians need not apply

[IChing]

By ROBYN E. BLUMNER, Times Perspective Columnist
Published August 13, 2006

Thanks to President Bush and his plan to Christianize the nation's provision of social services, one's relationship with Jesus Christ has become a real resume booster. As author Michelle Goldberg reports in her new book, Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism, Bush has ushered in affirmative action for the born- again. In 2005 alone, more than $2-billion in federal tax money went to faith-based programs for such services as job placement programs, addiction treatment and child mentoring. Overwhelmingly, this money went to groups affiliated with Christian religions.

>>>snip........

But some of these new employers have a shocking job requirement - only Christians need apply. Goldberg cited the publicly funded Firm Foundation of Bradford, Pa., as a blatant example. The group provides prison inmates with job training, something one would think any trained professional could do. Well, think again. According to Goldberg, the group posted an ad for a site manager. It said that the applicant must be "a believer in Christ and Christian Life today, sharing these ideals when the opportunity arises." Apparently, experience and qualifications are secondary.

snip>>>>>
Before Bush upended things, religious groups had always been enlisted by government as providers of social services. They just had to wholly separate their religious mission from their government-funded services. Under Bush, there has been substantial blurring of the line. As to hiring, the law always allowed religious groups to discriminate on religious grounds - so that the Catholic Church could hire Catholic priests, for example - but that exemption did not extend to employees hired with public funds to provide social welfare. It was a simple, clear rule. If you took public money, you hired on the basis of merit, not piety. But Bush wiped away this calibrated distinction by issuing a series of executive orders early in his presidency approving taxpayer financed religious discrimination.

snip>>>>>>>>>


Forget the proverbial wall. Here it is, church and state working hand-in-glove, with tax money and the government-sanctioned intolerance as the prize.

Meanwhile, money is flowing into religious coffers without anyone watching. A June report from the Government Accountability Office found that few government agencies that award grants to faith-based organizations bother to monitor whether the recipient is improperly mixing religion into their programs or discriminating against clients on the basis of religion. A few organizations contacted by the GAO even admitted to praying with clients while providing government-funded services. As to kicking out non-Christians on the staff, the Bush Justice Department says that it is perfectly okay.>>>>>snip

read the whole article here:
http://www.sptimes.com/2006/08/13/Columns/Non_Christians_need_n.shtml

[azurnoir]

1. So religious discrimination

is legal in the job market also? I already knew that these so called christian charity agencys could discriminate on religious grounds or "food for Jesus"

[Tesha]

28. It's not legal, it just hasn't been litigated yet.

All this shit is being done under the aegis of executive
orders, and these executive orders are blatantly unconsti-
tutional/ But until someone litigates it all the way to
the Supreme Court, the shit from the Oval Office will
keep flowing downhill onto us.

Tesha

[saltpoint]

2. And the pathetic thing is that Dubya knows less about the ministry

of Jesus than most farm animals.

Faith issues aside, I just get tired of having a dumbass for a president.

[immoderate]

15. It's hard to ennumerate, quantify, evaluate...

how much of an undulating mass of quivering stupidity that moron ('scuse me, moran) asshole is.

Just tryin' to help here.:hi:

--IMM

[saltpoint]

29. You're right on all counts and by the way, your avatar is terrific.

[immoderate]

30. Thank you.

The avatar is of a painting of me done 30 years ago by a girl friend. It took her about 5 minutes to do.(!)

As for Bush, it's hard to express in mere words. Even grunts, groans, shrieks of agony, and %^&%$#&*!@ doesn't quite do it.

--IMM

[whistle]

3. What about Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.....

...they don't actually practice fundementalist Christianity according to the CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS AND RESEARCH MINISTRY:

<snip>
CHRISTIAN APOLOGETICS & RESEARCH MINISTRY www.carm.org

An easy way to witness to Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses

The following method of witnessing to Cultists is non_offensive and powerful. It focuses on Jesus, the gospel, and uses Scripture. This is important for three reasons: first, Jesus draws all men to Himself (John 12:32); second, the Gospel is powerful for salvation (Rom. 1:16); and third, God’s Word accomplishes what God wants it to (Isaiah 55:11).

If someone puts his faith in the Jesus of Mormonism, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or any other cult, then his faith is useless. The validity of faith does not rest in itself, but in its object. The greatest faith in someone false is the same as no faith at all. That is the case with the Mormons and the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Each group believes in a Jesus, but not in the Jesus of the Bible, and because they each have a false Jesus (2 Cor. 11:4), they each preach a false gospel (Gal. 1:8-9). They may be sincere, but they are sincerely wrong – dead wrong.

The official theologies of the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses do not permit prayer to nor the worship of Jesus. They also deny that He can be called their God. But the Bible permits, even encourages, these things for the true believer. The true Jesus, the Jesus of the Bible, is prayed to, worshiped, and called God. And, this is where we must begin.

If you can prove a Cultist wrong in a minor point of theology, he is still a Cultist. But, if you show him that the Jesus he believes in is not the same one found in the Bible, then you have undermined his entire theology.
<more>

http://www.carm.org/cults/witnesstocult.htm

[melnjones]

6. I'm not understanding the point of your post...nt

[whistle]

14. Even Christians can't agree on who is Christian and who is not

... see my post here as well:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=1916603&mesg_id=1916603

[melnjones]

18. Gotcha, thanks for the clarification. nt.

[Pierre.Suave]

4. Here is my prayer...

God, please let the crazines end...

[melnjones]

5. My big problem is just that

funding for faith-based organizations should not come as a replacement for funding for the government and other secular agencies that had been receiving the money before. If the government wants to ALSO give funds to groups of ALL faiths, I say go for it (but monitor so the money is used responsibly). I've worked in government and secular social services and also in faith-based social services, and I have to say typically the faith-based ones are being more effective (in my experience...obviously I can't speak for places I haven't been). There ARE some crappy faith-based services out there that abuse the religious aspect, but it's unfair to paint all faith-based services as being such.

On edit...I do understand the reasoning why people think faith-based should get no government money and I respect that. I've just seen the faith-based services in action and also understand the good that the money would do there when secular agencies are screwing things up.

[Greyhound]

24. But what about the deal? We don't tax them, they don't get tax dollars?

As a realist, I find this to be simply outrageous.

[The_Casual_Observer]

7. There will be years and years of court battles & investigations

before this mess is sorted out & things return to the way they were before.

[IChing]

8. This is billions of tax dollars that promotes hegemony and discrimation

For a interesting take also read

Democracy Now:

We speak with Max Blumenthal. He writes about Christians United for Israel in a new piece for the Nation titled "Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism."
Max Blumenthal, Puffin Foundation writing fellow at the Nation Institute. His work has appeared in The Nation, Salon, The American Prospect and the Washington Monthly. His blog is MaxBlumenthal.Blogspot.com.

Max Blumenthal

Christian Zionism has been a force within the Christian right for over 20 years, and they've made -- the Christian Zionist movement, they've made themselves an asset to Israel by sending millions in aid money to Israel. They're a major source of Israeli tourism, especially during the Second Intifada. They were perhaps the only source of tourism revenue for Israel, which is a key source of revenue for the Israeli government. And on an individual basis, leaders of the Christian Zionist movement have lobbied the government, especially the Bush administration, which has had an open door policy to them. But never before has there been an official Washington lobbying organization for the Christian Zionist movement.

So now you have Christians United for Israel, which was founded in February by John Hagee, who commands a mega-church in San Antonio with 18,000 members. He's a huge force in Texas politics, a close, personal friend of Tom DeLay. And what this organization has done is they've convened all of the major Christian Zionist mega-churches in the country under one umbrella group, and they've hired a lobbyist. Hagee has a lot of money through his congregation. And their lobbyist is a guy named David Brog, who’s the former chief of staff to Arlen Specter, and he's Jewish, so this makes him a huge asset to this organization, because he can beat back criticism from other Jewish leaders that Christian Zionists harbor ulterior motives for supporting Israel, that they have an Armageddon-based agenda for supporting Israel.

And if you look at what John Hagee has written in his books, like Jerusalem Countdown, his most recent book, which cites 17 unnamed Israeli intelligence sources to claim that Iran is producing nuclear suitcase bombs and that Israel must engage in a "nuclear showdown" with Iran or risk committing national suicide, if you look at what he's written, he does have an Armageddon-based agenda. And so I think what this lobby does, it plays an instrumental PR role on behalf of the Christian Zionist movement in preventing legitimate criticism of their motives for supporting Israel, and they are bolstering what AIPAC is doing and possibly even radicalizing what AIPAC is doing, by providing them a grassroots base in the heartland.


http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/08/15/1326256

[donkeyotay]

32. What a disaster the repo's have wrought on the USA

CUFI is the latest incarnation of the "Armageddon-based agenda". I think Jack Abramoff was the previous one: Delay, church fronts and charitable organization-based money laundering...

They have destroyed every good thing about America. They've destroyed any sense of unity, any sense of fair representation, any hope that laws will prevail over brute power, any reason to believe that we offered hope to humanity ... unbelievable. I sure wish the churches would make it plain if they don't support this corruption.

[eppur_se_muova]

33. Heard Blumenthal on the radio this weekend. Awesome job.

This was on Amy Goodman's show -- found it on WFPW, in D.C. (I'm moving to the area, was driving around while occasionally searching the dial for public radio.) John Dean was the other guest. I'm *really* going to have to read his "Conservatives without conscience".

[serryjw]

9. Democracy NOW!

I saw her on C-span but it's being repeated
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/07/1356216

[GOPBasher]

10. Theocracy is coming. eom

[Ms Dem]

11. Christians AND Heterosexuals only

Don't forget the Salvation Army which is in court over its new "loyalty" test. They fired a bunch of long-term employees for not being regular churchgoers or for being gay. They get MILLIONS from the feds to run programs. For more info, go to the ACLU or NYCLU website.

[IChing]

13. It was in the first article I posted

and described the lawsuits and the case

[knitter4democracy]

17. I don't give to them, even though they do good work.

I had a friend in college whose dad was in that church (he played in their band and went to their church, as did she until late in high school). The stories she told of the nastiness within their own ranks were enough to put me off them for good.

[tbyg52]

12. A shocking and *illegal* job requirement. nt

[Mr_Spock]

16. Fascists

:mad:

[IChing]

19. Bush picks low-profile leader to head faith-based office(august 10 2006)

y Robert Marus
Published August 10, 2006

WASHINGTON (ABP) -- President Bush has chosen a low-profile think-tank leader to head the White House Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives.
Bush announced Aug. 3 that he had tapped Jay Hein, currently president of the conservative Sagamore Institute for Policy Research. The group, which Hein founded, is based in Indianapolis.

Hein also serves as vice president and chief executive officer of the Foundation for American Renewal. His biographical sketch on the Sagamore Institute's website says that group "provides financial grants and other support to community-based organizations and educates the general public on effective compassion principles and practices."

>>>>snip
The White House's faith-based office coordinates the administration's efforts to expand government funding to churches and other small religious and community organizations to perform social services. The plan -- once the centerpiece of Bush's domestic agenda -- has proven controversial to supporters of church-state separation. It has repeatedly been stonewalled in Congress. But Bush has implemented much of the plan through executive orders and regulatory action.

>>>>snip
The Washington-based Interfaith Alliance issued a statement noting that "neither Mr. Hein nor anyone else can solve the inherent problems in this program. This office violates the First Amendment by creating government-sponsored religion, paid for by all taxpayers no matter what their faith and beliefs; and it violates civil-rights laws by allowing religious discrimination in hiring and in providing services to those in need."

A recent study of the initiative by an independent government agency criticized the initiative. The Government Accountability Office concluded that many executive-branch agencies administering faith-based grants did not have adequate safeguards in place to ensure the funds were being used in ways that comport with the Constitution's ban on government endorsement of religion.

LINK:
http://www.abpnews.com/1300.article


this guy comes out from.... the heritage foundation

[PurityOfEssence]

20. Any christian who doesn't repudiate this is deeply, morally ugly

Are the mods going to flush this post as they have so many of my others on this subject?

What say?

Religion is monarchy: those who aren't with us don't deserve to exist. This is why Article One of the Bill of Rights exists.

It gets worse and worse, and shrouded with the blithe smiling innocence of those who would exile the rest of us, the encroachment continues. Give them an inch, and the cubit and mile are soon to be demanded.

Tolerate a little "ceremonial deism" like "in god we trust" on money, and it's used as a precedent to cram cosmic guesses down our throats and usher in a fog of complacency that those who believe in the accepted fantasy are superior and deserve to have sway.

This is disgusting.

[undergroundpanther]

21. Sigh

How long until these freaks try to chop off my head? Stone me or otherwise destroy me? I hate this shit.Liberal Christians should be pounding the walls of these fundie asshole churches down like Jericho.. but nooo... I hate believers who try to make the world in their leaders image. I wish all of them and their desires to dominate to meet ruin.
May they all be made desolate and if the liberal Christians stand by, and say nothing,may they meet the same judgment.

[Hissyspit]

22. President of the United States: Non-Christians need not apply.

[CornField]

23. Been bitching about this since day 1... we were told "even the field"

When what really happened was NOT a leveling of the playing field but a rapid advancement of religious institutions because they have not been held to the same rules as traditional non-profits who bid for taxpayer dollars.

My tax money (and yours) is funding discriminatory practices. Congratulations!

[NMMNG]

25. The country is going to hell,

and the road is paved with Fundamentalist Christians.

[DarkTirade]

26. I believe that Christ himself would be first in line to drive these money

changers out of the temple.

[rasputin1952]

27. This is just so obnoxious and shows the incredible lengths that this

administration will go to to push their views on a nation that has somewhat decent tolerance of all.

The government sanctioned push for religion is revolting at best, and since many that proclaim a love of religion, use that lever to gain power, this is a very serious issue.

Most major religions profess a caring for the poor and distressed, and yet, precisely the opposite has come about, because the people in charge have no concept of what they are braying about. Far too many of those that profess to hold a positive view of religion, are deluded into believing they are on a mission to bring "salvation" to the masses, when all they are doing is coercing people with promises of food nd shelter in return for a "conversion". That is repugnant, it reeks of Puritanism, and does not alleviate the problems that cause poverty and want.

Coercing people is never a good idea, and if people can't come to conclusions on their own volition, w/o said coercion, what makes these people think offering a carrot on a stick will "produce" more "christians"? There is nothing of Christianity in this, and the whole point of what not just Jesus, but others, such as Buddha, Confucius and numerous others have spoken of in alleviating the suffering of the poor and distressed.

This nation, and the people in it, should do what they can to alleviate suffering on a non-discriminatory basis. The "religious test" for services is akin to the "religious test" for voting, it needs to be abandoned, and all people need to be treated equally from services that are granted to aid them.

bush is no more "christian" than a turnip. He, and his loyal little goomers have no concept of Christianity, nor do they have any concept of what it feels like to be hungry and willing to go through motions simply to get a loaf of bread to feed their family one more day.

This is evil incarnate, disguised as some kind of benevolence.

[elehhhhna]

31. Still can't belive the GALL of extending PATRONAGE jobs etc. to

so-called CHURCHES. What. The. HELL?