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Al122 Donating Member (32 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 08:51 PM
Original message
What's MoveOn.org Afraid Of?
Today Norman Solomon, one of the handful of real journalists left in America and author of outstanding works such as "Target Iraq" and "War Made Easy" posed the following question to MoveOn.org, an organization that promotes an "Out of Iraq Petition" on the homepage of its website: Will you poll your membership on whether to endorse Senator Hillary Clinton, who is for keeping U.S. troops in Iraq indefinitely or Jonathan Tasini, who is for the immediate, safe withdrawal of all U.S. troops from Iraq?

Jonathan Tasini got 40,000 signatures from New York Democrats to get on the ballot, 25,000 in excess of what is required by law. Thirteen percent of New York's registered Democrats said they preferred Tasini to Clinton according to the most recent Marist poll. Many of these Democrats are undoubtedly also MoveOn members. According to Mr. Solomon, Eli Pariser, MoveOn's executive director claims that he has heard almost nothing from members on Tasini. Well that's certainly not the case anymore as the question was perhaps the single most frequently posted item on today on MoveOn's "Action Forum" with the numbers coming in overwhelmingly in support of Tasini (I counted at least 15 separate posts registering almost 300 votes in favor of a poll).

New Yorkers who are are supporting Tasini are doing so for reasons other than the Iraq war. Tasini is also for Medicare for All, an idea originally proposed by Senator Ted Kennedy on Medicare's 40 year anniversary in 2005, reigning in the power of out of control corporations, an end to "free trade" agreements that are destroying what's left of the middle class, addressing the root causes of "illegal" immigration (i.e. the effects of those same "free trade" agreements on Mexico and Central America), full marriage equality for gay couples and the impeachment of both George W. Bush and Dick Cheney.

Mrs. Clinton, by contrast, has become the largest recipient of contributions from the health care "industry," right after Rick Santorum and now coincidentally (or perhaps not so) favors an incremental approach towards eventually providing 40 million hard working Americans with insurance (hope they can hold out for her). Mrs Clinton supported NAFTA and permanent "Most Favored Nation" status for China and recently voted for a "free trade" agreemtent with the Arab nation of Oman. She also supported the odious, offensive and totally unnecessary "Defense of Marriage" Act. And, as for coming out for impeachment or even trying to hold Bush and Cheney accountable for their inumerable crimes, well don't hold your breath.

So Eli, please be true to MoveOn's mission statement and "give every member a voice in choosing the direction for both MoveOn.org." (http://www.moveon.org /...).

Let us have a vote on whether or not to support Tasini.

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Oceansaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
1. What's MoveOn.org Afraid Of?
perhaps losing big $$$....just taking a stab at it...if they endorse HC
they may not like the results.....
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
2. Is There A Formal Mechanism?
What is the process for a candidate gaining MoveOn's endorsement?
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. yes, as i understand it, it's something like:
you report, they decide.
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AlGore-08.com Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. They poll their members.
If the race is statewide, rather than national, they only poll members from that state. I'm not sure how they poll for Congressional races - - whether they poll folks from that district only, or whether they still poll statewide.

The problem Solomon has with this is that - - apparently - - MoveOn hasn't polled its NY members about who they want to support - - HRC or Tasini.

I think Solomon is right about reducing the size of HRC's primary victory next month would do a lot to counter the "she'll win the primary in a walk" spin around her, and get some of the folks to stop and think who are selfishly pushing her to run in 2008. I also agree that Tasini doesn't seem to have the fund raising ability for his campaign to do it alone. He'd have to have the help of some big guns - - like MoveOn - - or a very, very, very large organic 'Netroots embrace of his campaign. Both seem unlikely scenarios at this point. Not impossible, unlikely.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Exactly
Ned Lamont had the cash flow to begin with (probably from his own wealth) whereas Tansini has not proven that he can go out there and raise his own cash.

Until we make campaigns publically fianced and do away with all these campaign contributions/lobbyists/pac etc, any major organized politcal group like Move-On, DSCC, DCCC, etc will not touch a candidate who cannot prove he/she can be sucessful at raising their own cash.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:53 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. Flawed Mechanism - Will Result In Republican Candidates
The easiest way to raise money is to be a pseudo-Republican and watch the donations pour in from the Rich. However, by-and-large, pseudo-Republicans get their clocks cleaned by actual registered Republicans in the general elections.

The Democrats need a mechanism to allow actual Democrats to be successful, otherwise the only real Democrats who get traction will be members of the lucky sperm club - like Lamont.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. I think Move-On is a great start
I find no flaw for them not supporting Tasini in lieu of the fact that there are many many other great candidates that they could support.

We're not going to change congress overnight. I mean, I convinced myself that Tom Carper was ok as a senator and now the bastard decided to support Lieberman for the general election. And with our elections so close we have had no effort to get Carper out of office and will be stuck with him in the fall election.

If we can make even just 2-3 changes a year it will start the ball rolling and then perhaps the next election it'll be 4-5 changes.
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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:18 AM
Response to Reply #14
16. Good Point
I'm not sure that I agree - but you make a good point.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Think of it like losing weight
You don't gain all that weight overnight, you're not going to lose it overnight either.

I get a bit perturbed with people who are short-sighted when it comes to making changes in congress and electing the type of representatives who will actually represent the people. Short-termed plans will keep republicans running things, but having long-term goals will not only get us a democratic majority but keep it for a long long time and a majority that we can be proud of.

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:58 AM
Response to Reply #17
18. Your Analogy is Not Helping Your Case...
Almost nobody permanently loses weight that way - they lose weight for a little while, then they gain it back. The only thing that really works is gastric bypass - which is not particularly safe. (I'm in the medical field and have some knowledge of this.)

The reason people gain the weight back is because the "cards are stacked against them" - any weight loss results in physiological changes that increase the propensity to gain weight.

Let's hope that the political bent of Congress is much different!
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:18 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. You know, even with gastic bypass and whatever else is used
It's still not going to change overnight. Nobody goes to bed weighing 300lbs and wakes up weighing 158 even if they have gastric bypass and tons of liposuction.

I stand by my analogy. This was not a discussion about weight loss but the fact that we need long term plans to succeed.

And I know plenty of people who've lost 50+ lbs and have maintained their new healthier weight for years
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omega minimo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
4. And could ya ask em why MoveOn had U.S. house parties before Election 2004
and went silent as soon as it was stolen?

:popcorn:
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:27 AM
Response to Original message
6. I'm pissed because here in Va., while they do go after thelma drake,...
they have done little or nothing about the sycophant, sock puppet George Allen.

I mean what about this:
http://gotv.blogspot.com/2005/06/is-george-allen-racist...
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. I'm in Thelma's district and happy they went
after her! I think Felix is doing himself in after recent events:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...
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primative1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:55 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Is this a Trend ? ...
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 06:55 AM by primative1
For over a decade we have been supposed to keep very quiet while supposed "free trade" has ruined our lives.
Can we finaly start to speak up again or should we wait until after the super highway to Kansas City is completed, a modern marvel assured to provide us with a lifeline to much needed career ending chinese goods.
Would it be alright with thge DLC if we stand up for ourselves now?
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. We'd better ask permission....
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liberalitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:03 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Oh, I'm glad they went after Thelma "presidential rim job" Drake too...
I'm lucky enough to be represented by Bobby Scott.

I just wish they'd do more to show Allen for the ass he is...
I hope that the Webb folks are in Ca. trying to find the people allen went to high school with...
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. So I guess Move.On has an endless supply of cash on hand?
Because that's your crazy assumption over the whole whine of "Wahh Why Lamont and not Tasini"

Simple:

Lamont easily proved that he had the money and the volunteers to tackle a major campaign against Joe Lieberman. Move.on knew that this was an investment that would pay off well and therefore provided extra funds and about 10million emails (my box is full of them) rallying the cause.

Move-on, like DSCC and DCCC are not required to endorse every single candidate that runs. And all three groups have to consider the viablity of a candidate and that candidate's ability to raise their own money and put together an established race. Tasini has NOT proven that.

Now answer me this - which is more important? Throwing money away at races with little results or perhaps taking the millions upon millions that a Tasini race would need just to become slightly competitive against Clinton and instead find 10-12 other candidates, perhaps in smaller, less profile races and help them to actually win.

I appreciate the support for Tansini here at DU and as always, I encourage primaries as an opportunity to make the changes we want to see. But I would find tossing money in a pitfire and burning it much more productive than supporting Tansini. Clinton has a massive warchest.

I am sure that instead Move-on has instead used that money for plenty of other important, but not necessarily high profile, races where we can achieve greater victory
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. I just threw $25 MoveOn's way
for their "go after the swiftboaters" campaign. From email:

Never. Ever. Again.


John Murtha is being smeared but we saw this coming and we have a new TV ad campaign to put Republican candidates on defense earlymaking a win possible. We can make August a month they'll never forget.

Dear MoveOn member,
Two years ago Republican operatives calling themselves "Swift Boat Veterans" smeared John Kerry. This year the same people are at it againstarting with attacks on John Murtha.

No damn way we're going to let them get away with that. We saw this coming and instead of playing defense we're ready to go on offense.

We've prepared a hard-hitting new TV ad about Iraq to move this fight into the congressional districts of vulnerable Republicans. But to flood the airways in these places we need to raise $500,000 this week. Can you chip in $25 today?

http://political.moveon.org/donate/iraqad.html?id=8385-...

If we raise the money we'll put the ads on TV in six key districtsplaces we can win especially because of frustration with Iraq. That'll make a sweeping Democratic takeover even more possible.

The Connecticut Senate race shows that voters are ready to reject politicians who are too close to George Bush and polling shows Iraq is the top issue for voters nationwide.

Now dozens of Republican candidates are furiously working to distance themselves from Bush and the mess in Iraq.

We can stop them in their tracks when we expose their Iraq record to voters with these adsand August is the critical month for that.

Why August? The candidate TV ads aren't expected to start until after Labor Daystarting now will force the Republicans to play defense early.

And these ads are focused on winning in November:
The ads are targeted to key races where Iraq matters and tested to maximize impact. Four months of research of swing districts have narrowed down the targets.
The ads connect with all sorts of voters. The message of the ads focuses on broad frustration with the money that has been lost or wasted in Iraqsomething liberals and conservatives agree on.
The ads do double-duty by modeling good Iraq messaging. Together we can show candidates around the country how to win on the top issue for voters.
The last round of TV ads worked. In all of the districts we ran our last round of ads the incumbent is in serious jeopardy.
We can only pull this off with the contributions of MoveOn members. Without support, it won't happen. Can you chip in $25 today?
http://political.moveon.org/donate/iraqad.html?id=8385-...

John Murtha is a hero to millions of Americans and the best way to honor him is to beat the Republicans who smear him.

MoveOn is entirely member-fundedwith no contributions from the Democratic Party and no donations larger than $5000. That is why your contribution is so important.


Let's get these ads on the air and put Republican candidates on defense.

Thanks for all you do.

Tom, Marika, Matt, Tanya and the MoveOn.org Political Action Team
Tuesday, August 8th, 2006
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Firebird44 Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:07 AM
Response to Original message
15. If Tasini was rich he wouldn't need MoveOn
I don't get it: If Tasini was rich like Lamont, then MoveOn SHOULD support him, but if he's just middle class, then he isn't deserving of support? And how is a candidate supposed to gain backing if progressive organizations won't support him and the media ignores him for strictly financial reasons? It's a completely absurd situation! Tasini got several times the number of ballot signatures he needed, he's polling at 13% with practically no publicity, he agrees with the majority of Americans on important issues such as the war and healthcare, he's on the primary ballot BUT NY-1 excluded him from the debates because he didn't raise half a million dollars, and MoveOn won't endorse him because he's not "popular" enough?

I feel like my head's exploding!
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newyawker99 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
21. Hi Firebird44!!
Welcome to DU!! :toast:
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