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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 05:24 PM
Original message
Is the Bush Administration admitting they committed war crimes?
Edited on Mon Aug-14-06 06:15 PM by MN Against Bush
I read an article in the Minneapolis Star Tribune today that made my jaw drop, and I can not believe this has not gotten more attention on the blogs. Read it and tell me that this is not hugely significant.

Editorial: Do not weaken War Crimes Act
Some in high places are nervous they may face prosecution.
Published: August 14, 2006

In 1949, the United States ratified the Geneva Conventions, which set forth minimal standards for the treatment of war prisoners. In 1996 and 1997, Congress enacted and expanded the War Crimes Act, which makes it a crime to violate the conventions. From 2002 to 2006, the Bush administration insisted the conventions did not apply to foreigners captured in Afghanistan. In June, the Supreme Court ruled that the conventions do apply. This month the administration drafted changes it will propose to the War Crimes Act that would decriminalize most of the conduct used to degrade and humiliate detainees at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib.

According to the Associated Press, which obtained a copy of part of the plan, "One section of the draft would outlaw torture and cruel treatment, but it does not contain prohibitions from Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions against 'outrages upon personal dignity, in particular humiliating and degrading treatment.' " Another section, it reported, would apply the legislation retroactively.

If you'd bet that this is about senior military and civilian officials of the Bush administration getting concerned that they might be prosecuted, you'd probably win the pot. That is certainly how it looks: Stripped of their "Geneva Conventions don't apply" defense, officials involved in authorizing a whole set of aggressive interrogation techniques now worry about being forced to spend humiliating, degrading time in the court dock.

This effort to rewrite the War Crimes Act would be outrage enough for that reason, but there are even larger risks: The United States would be seen as de-ratifying part of the conventions, thus giving every country, every tinhorn leader justifiable reason to humiliate U.S. soldiers they capture in the future. Just as problematic is the additional tarnish this would throw on the U.S. reputation among the world's people who believe in fair play, in the rules of war and in the United States' leadership of the brigade pushing those good causes. Any way you cut it, this is a bad idea. Congress should give it a quick burial.

http://www.startribune.com/561/story/609920.html


Now why would the Bush Administration be pushing to weaken the War Crimes Act and applying the legislation retroactively if they were not guilty of war crimes? As far as I can see this basically amounts to an admission of guilt. The provisions that they want to change are provisions that we know they violated, and these actions show us that they know they violated the law and are now trying to protect themselves.

Many of us have been saying that Bush is a war criminal for years now, but the corporate media has given them a free pass and thus many people in the general public have never even had the words "war criminals" cross their minds. With this however, I think we can convince those people that the Bush Administration is in fact made up of war criminals. We can not allow let this legislation to be pushed through quietly, we need to scream from the rooftops in order to ensure the public knows what is going on. If this legislation fails, then it is very possible we will some day see these people face charges. Do not give up hope, this shows the administration is terrified.

On edit: I usually don't ask this, but could you please recommend this post. I don't hear very much talk about this issue at all, and if we do not get people talking about this now it could be too late. The fate of this bill could determine whether or not Bush is prosecuted for war crimes, if you want to see that trial then we must stop the changes from passing.

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seemunkee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. They are guilty
You know it, I know it, they know it, most of the world knows it but the Rethug congress won't do anything about it.
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Iwasthere Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They will if we have the balls to stand up!
If we all just quit trying because we know they won't do anything they have won. They are banking that most will be defeatists. You might be surprised what would happen ... let's keep kickin em... don't give in
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 06:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I think this bill can be stopped, but only if we work to stop it
This is a bill that many members of Congress would be embarrased to vote for, and it is certainly possible we could get several Republicans to vote against it. If we ignore it however, then it is likely that even several Democrats will vote for the bill as well and Bush will never have to worry about a war crimes trial.

This is it, this is our best chance to expose this administrations crimes to the general population. We need to make sure people know what is happening.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #1
22. Guilty on all accounts with malice of forethought?
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Phredicles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
2. I believe this is where I say "k&r".
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 05:46 PM
Response to Original message
4.  KandR!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. If Bushco isn't threatened by this, why change the laws? - after elections
Bush antics will be hevily be investigated and already has been warned to prepare a defense.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
6. I found a couple other posts on this same issue...
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
7. To the Hague with them all! k&r
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texpatriot2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:27 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. Agreed! nt
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grannylib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:07 PM
Response to Original message
8. It's been talked about here on DU quite a bit, but I agree, it's not
getting the attention it deserves.
We gotta focus on those terra 'lerts, you know...mascara could kill us all if we're not careful...
:sarcasm:
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
9. We all know it.
The Supremes said so in Hamadan V. Rumsfeld.

A retroactive law is unconstitutional.

I demand a grand jury! Sign the petition.

-Hoot
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 10:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. Not only is a retroactive law unconstitutional
An Act of Congress can't overrule either the Constitution or Treaties to which the U.S. is a signatory. This proposed law is illegal on its face.
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LastLiberal in PalmSprings Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 11:28 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. Constitution: 'No Bill of Attainder ex post facto Law shall be passed.'
Article I, Sec. 9, Clause 3:

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.


This usually applies to passing a law to make a currently legal act illegal retroactively. Usually it doesn't address the issue of doing the reverse -- making an illegal act legal after the fact. If the Busheviks get away with this then the whole concept of "rule of law" will be thrown out the window.

This is the major issue I have with *'s arrogant actions of abrogating treaties he finds inconvenient, like the ABM Treaty with Russia.
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 06:24 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Thank you!
If the acts were illegal at the time they were committed, THEY CANNOT CHANGE THAT (at least Constitutionally), no matter how much they want to. King George strikes again!
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 09:51 PM
Response to Original message
11. Gonzalez stated the rules of the geneva convention don't apply to Gitmo
detainee's. Our Attorney general must cover his own ass so Bush does what he does best, just rewrite the laws...
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. And the Supreme Court overruled him
That is why the Administration is rushing to try to cover their asses. They are scared about potential prosecutions, and this proves it.
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Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #11
28. Al Gonzo must also answer when the bell tolls.
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-14-06 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. That's their MO. Break the law, then rewrite it when they get caught.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 02:23 AM
Response to Original message
17. My turn to K&R
:kick:
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leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
19. Amendment of the WCA would trigger enforcement actionby other signatories
to the UN Torture Convention.

This Bushites are literally daring the rest of the world to convene war crimes tribunals. I say, the ICJ is free to come and take them away today. In fact, we should render all due assistance.

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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
20. They know they are war criminals.
The Senate we have now will adjust the laws to accommodate the Bush Administration. We have to prevent this from ever coming up for a vote.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. I always thought that it was unconstitutional..
... to make laws that apply retroactively.

That is, the laws that were in effect at the time of the offense are cast in stone, you can neither retroactively make something that already happened illegal or legal.

Smart people???
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. Ex Post Facto. (I think)
That's my dim recollection from something like fifth grade. And it makes very little sense to me, unless a law were draconian. But not with something universally accepted like the war crimes act.

I also think they have violated international law. And that isn't going to be altered in their favor.

I don't know if it's constitutional or not, though. So I still may not have answered your question.
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EVDebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 12:00 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Hmmm. Nixon's "pardon" by Ford
Seemed like only God can grant that kind of absolution ! Murder isn't subject to that pardon, I wouldn't think...
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Ian_rd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 09:19 AM
Response to Original message
23. This story is huge (and unheard). They are jittery of a Democratic
Congress and hence the ability to investigate the White House.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:12 AM
Response to Original message
25. but, but, but...it was just a few bad apples at Abu grahib, right? Right?
me thinks the "chain of command questions asked then are just being answered.
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donkeyotay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Them bad apples thought they were doing what MI private contractors
wanted them to do to "soften the detainees up" for interrogation. It's just a coincidence that these freelance bad apples were using the same techniques fow which they are now asking for official sanctioning. It not only went up the chain of command, but according to the Gonzales torture rationalization, the president was the one who could authorize torture (and anything else that pops into his head). IMO, the congress is acting as an accessory after the fact or obstructing justice or whatever the legal term would be that would cover the fact that every single one of these asshats has failed to defend the Constitution. They also need to revisit presidential pardons to not include anyone convicted of a crime committed on the administration's behalf.
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SutaUvaca Donating Member (472 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:18 AM
Response to Original message
26. This draft has been reported for several days I think,
But it is apparently the very biggest of elephants in the room as far as MSM blindness and crime complicity go.
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caligirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. this was being discussed in a senate committee mtg several days
ago wi8th Gonzo testifying to Senator Warner and others. I don't recall the committee name but this rewrite was talked about. Its still being drafted and Carl Levin, who was also there, got a leaked copy so he is watching this to.
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Bretttido Donating Member (754 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
27. It's simple logic, they are war criminals
Edited on Tue Aug-15-06 10:37 AM by Bretttido
PS. Unfortunately, BushBots are incapable of this kind of logic when it conflicts with their solidified view of the world.
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Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-15-06 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
30. K&R.(nt)
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