The so-called Cell Phone Terror Plot in Michigan...

[WCGreen]

You know were a couple or mid eastern looking kids bought a mess of Cell Phone and had over 1,000 in their possession when arrested...

Not to sound like some kind of profiler here, but let me comment on what I know about how people from Iraq, Lebanon and Syria transact business here in North East Ohio...

Many of the mom and pop stores in the inner city that were left vacant as White Flight took off in the 60's and 70's have been reopened by immigrants from these countries...

Not all, mind you, but a good many...

They still think like the old world and just want to sell without bringing any attention down upon themselves...

Many times, they will not have a Vendor License so that they can not buy wholesale...

What they do is go to Wal Mart, COSTCO, BIG Lots, the supermarkets and stock up on stuff to sell in their stores with out the over sight of the State...

Remember, these are immigrants from highly corrupt areas of the world where is it part of business to give the grease the hands of every local government official that comes through the front door...

So maybe these kids were running around, like they said, to buy cheap cell phones to sell under the radar to people who can't get to walmart because they are living miles away from the superstores...

Just a thought....

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Your thoughts are as valid as any other theory I've heard so far

This story will likely stay under the radar unless there's some benefit to it again seeing the light of day.

I'll say this ..... and it is pure speculation ..... that if the story is as it was reported (some 'terrorist' activities), they'll pump it up right after the UK story starts to lose its legs. If we never hear of it again, then your theory makes more sense.

[I_Make_Mistakes]

5. Osama Siblani , Arab American News was on C-Span and said

just about what you said. There was some airport documentation found in the car also, one of the boys mother works for Northwest Airlines. If you choose you can look it up on C-Span's web site.

He said that the kids would make like $5.00/phone.

[seriousstan]

2. A vendors license in Ohio costs 35$ I support people running legit

businesses. These people do realize they are in the US and MANY of them are legit business people. If this is a way to illegit do business....FUCK THEM!!! Just a thought.

[WCGreen]

25. Well, they have an organization that is trying hard

to get the Arab community to operate legit....

They are making inroads....

But still, the old country is hard to let go of for first generation immagrants...

This was how everything was done back in the old days when our forefathers and foremothers came to this country...

[inthebrain]

3. Is there a reference point to anchor this all to?

I havent heard anything about this except in rumor mills.

Who reported this?

[notadmblnd]

12. there was an article in The Detroit News yesterday

where many doubts about these kids being terrorists were expressed.

[MADem]

16. A few links

http://www.postcrescent.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060811/APC0101/60811073/1979 Police stopped the men’s van about 1:30 a.m. and found nearly 1,000 phones, most of which were prepaid TracFones, along with a laptop computer and a bag of receipts, Stevenson said. The receipts were from several locations, including a Wisconsin store.

The men, who are from the Dallas area, were being held on charges of soliciting or providing material support for terrorism and obtaining information of a vulnerable target for the purposes of terrorism, Caro, Mich. police Sgt. Dale Stevenson said....Stevenson said the men, who are 18, 22, and 23, went to a 24-hour Wal-Mart store in Caro early this morning and purchased the cell phones despite a store policy limiting customers to three phones per purchase. A Wal-Mart clerk who thought the purchases were suspicious alerted police.

"They target these stores late, in the morning, hoping to get an inexperienced clerk," Stevenson said.

The men told police they were buying the phones, which cost about $20 and come with a charger, taking them out of their packaging and selling them for about $38 without the charger.

Police held the men while they investigated, and the prosecutor’s office authorized the charges about 5 p.m., Stevenson said.

The arrests in Caro, about 90 miles north of Detroit, came three days after two men from the Detroit suburb of Dearborn were arrested in Marietta, Ohio, where police said they aroused suspicions when they acknowledged buying about 600 phones in recent months at stores in southeast Ohio.

Investigators in Marietta, a city of about 14,000 near West Virginia, found a map in the men’s car showing locations of Wal-Mart stores in Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, North Carolina and South Carolina. Authorities also said the men had information about airline flights and airports in their car....Defense lawyers said Houssaiky and Abulhassan planned to resell the phones simply to make money and the flight information consisted of old papers left in the car by a relative who worked at an airport...........Prosecutors in Ohio have said the prepaid phones can be used to make hard-to-track international calls and have been linked to use by terrorists. But a cell phone store owner has said cheap, prepaid phones are popular among teenagers.

John Simley, a spokesman for Wal-Mart Stores Inc. in Bentonville, Ark., said he did not know how popular the TracFones are, but he said the retailer has an agreement with cell phone manufacturers to enforce a limit of three cell phones per purchase.

"We’re providing law enforcement officials with all the information we can to help with the ongoing investigating," Simley said. "We are not discussing the purchases or other details pertinent to the incidents."



or http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060812/METRO/608120417/1003 3 arrested on terror charges

Men detained in Mich. Thumb area after buying 80 hard-to-track cell phones; arrests are criticized.

.....The arrests in Caro, about 90 miles north of Detroit, came three days after two men from the Detroit suburb of Dearborn were arrested in Marietta, Ohio, where police said they aroused suspicions when they acknowledged buying about 600 phones in recent months at stores in southeast Ohio.

In the Ohio case, Dearborn residents Osama Sobhi Abulhassan and Ali Houssaiky face terrorism-related felony charges after a sheriff's deputy found them Tuesday with a dozen TracFones, $10,837 in cash and a flight manifest.

The men, both 20, said they bought them for a business in Metro Detroit. The mother of one man works at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.

Their attorneys have said the arrests are the result of small-town profiling at a time when the nation is especially fearful of Islamic terrorists.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's in all the major papers of late.

[patdem]

4. My very first thought was they purchased them to resell them at a profit

to people whom THEY know are ignorant and afraid. They probably use FEAR to sell those phones to people who are of Middle Eastern origin. They are not 'good guys'...but most likely just con artists!

[MADem]

6. My first thought was that they were drug dealers NT

[patdem]

10. Wow, could be..I never thought of that...but 100 phones? maybe to

give to their fellow dealers? I suppose. I am not that familiar with how drug dealers operate. But there are people here who do know and police same.

[MADem]

11. Watch THE WIRE on HBO

Great images/plotlines of the dealers tossing the phones every few days, to prevent the cops from putting a trace on them.

[patdem]

13. So 100 phones would just be a months worth for 2 drug dealers...

I do not have HBO, but thanks for the info. I have changed my mind..and agree with you. I just did not think some idiot would purchase 100 phones to do some sort of bombing...seems to ludicrous to me..but then, I am no expert on terrorists either! Live and learn!

[MADem]

14. You might be able to get the first two seasons at your local library

Pick up the phone, call them, and ask if they have the DVDs. Then you can check them out and have a marathon for free--it is an amazing piece of artistry, takes you back there. It's a great show, gets into BAWL-MORE like I've NEVER seen.

And that plot line just leaps out at me anytime I see major cell phone purchases...one episode had these punks going from store to store to store, buying in bulk, for just that nefarious purpose...

[AZBlue]

38. My first thought was drugs too.

My second was terrorism - ever seen Sleeper Cell on Showtime?

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

7. Something else about phones

Poor people cannot get any kind of phone service but these prepaid cell phones. They may have a poor credit rating and be denied both land line and regular cell phone accounts. And have you noticed that old-fashioned pay phones are disappearing everywhere? These phones are the ONLY way they have to communicate, period. How is someone supposed to get a job, if they don't havce a number to put on the application for the employer to call them back if they are hired?

[WCGreen]

24. That was one of my points....

I was rushing out to make an appointment when I posted this....

[OzarkDem]

44. Yep

People who can't afford regular service from ATT, SBC, whatever, just use the prepaid phones when they have the money to buy them.

[roseBudd]

8. Or maybe the cellphones were to sell to drug dealers and not terrorists

[MADem]

21. Or maybe they were gonna make up a bunch of IEDs and blow us up

on the highways and local roads...wouldn't that be a screaming turd of a scenario! A bunch of shitheads plant their bombs, and each puts fifty or so numbers on speed dial, waits for rush hour when roads are jammed and dials for damage---ka-BOOM!

A Nahn Wun Wun anniversary party, here, there and everywhere!

Shit, it would make the Lady Bird Johnson "clean highways" fashion come back in style....!

Of course, if this were the case, it would tell us that the TERRISTS are HERE....and that ain't good...because, after all

We're fighting them over THERE, so we don't have to fight them over HERE!

Which would mean it's time to BRING THEM HOME, so they could FIGHT THEM over HERE!!!

Ah, such a conundrum!!!!!

[roseBudd]

26. You don't need 1000 detonators, if you are selling phones to low income

people whether they are drug dealers or people who buy things on the street due to lack of transportation/no credit, you do need 1000 phones to sell. Perhaps WalMart had these phones on sale and these guys realized they could sell these phones just standing on a street corner like the bootleg DVD guys.

Yet with the current system of dealing with "enemy combatants" these guys may never get a trial.

In law enforcement there is a saying that the most simple/obvious explanation is usually the correct one. On the HBO show The Wire, the drug dealers knew their calls were being monitored and they had someone buying cellphones at multiple retail outlets and the phones were thrown away weekly. The cops attempted to foil this method by infiltrating the phone buyer with a seller who offered a better price on a lot of phones appealing to his greed to pocket the difference, thereby insuring the dealers had phones the cops had the numbers for.

[MADem]

36. I don't discount ANY scenario

But, from a TERRA point of view, a thousand points of light all over the country on one day would make us sit up and take notice...that's all I'm sayin'....

Occam's Razor surely has its place, but the truth of the matter is, we just don't know. And we don't have a gubmint we trust to tell us the real scoop.

[elfin]

9. If a phone cost $20

Where did these "kids" get 20 grand to stockpile so many? And why did they have 1000 of them in their possession if they were reselling odd lots here and there.

Abetting terrorist cells is a legitimate hypothesis along with drug dealing.

I doubt "Mom and Pop" stores need to buy that many - and then, who are THEY selling to and for what purpose?

Right now, I think the arrest was valid, but await more info. I hope they get good representation so they are not "patrioted" into jails with no rights whatsoever.

[PassingFair]

17. Puhleeze...

I live in Michigan, and my brother,
who works downtown, KNOWS relatives
of these guys.

Try looking up the company METRO PCS.
Every other arabic business person
in Detroit has one of these stores! (SLIGHT exageration...)

When 9/11 went down, one of the first
thoughts that I had was that Iraqi/Middle Eastern
business people were going to be in BIG trouble,
because so much of their business happens beneath
the radar. Muslims do NOT employ the banking system
the way westerners do. (Islam frowns on interest)

A TON of business is cash business. There are
mortgage companies in Michigan that specialize
in mortgages for muslims.

They are under the spotlight here and are being busted
right and left.

On Edit: They do the same thing with CIGS...

[MADem]

19. Actually, they don't like interest, but they will charge "fees"

It's their way of avoiding the usury charges. The Islamic banks do this, too.

But as for money transfers (say, you want money sent to someone in the states), the way it works is you give your money to Walid in Cairo, and his cousin Abdul pays it out to the person you wanted it sent to, say, in Akron. All they have to do is turn up, ask for the dough, and "say the secret word."

No money is actually "wired." Both Walid and Abdul are sitting on a load of dough and are able to make it work. They charge a "fee" for this service, a little vigorish on both ends, as it were, which is how they can afford to keep doing it--it's not a 'goodness of the heart' business, by any stretch.

[PassingFair]

20. I'm not defending them...

just sayin'.

They do business differently.

Very cash-based and insular.

[MADem]

22. I knew you weren't...I've had to use an Islamic bank (to cash mah

paycheck, eons ago) and they charged a FEE for that. I'm just familiar with the processes, and many are quite convoluted (more so than I described above, in fact).

No interest, but fees for check cashing, money changing, that sort of thing. They also do deals where they go into 'business' with the person they are lending to, and that way, they can share in the profit of the venture (getting their interest, in essence). Then, when the loan is paid off, they divest themselves of their share of the business.

Hell, they have to pay the salaries of their workers. It all works out the same in the end....

[MrCoffee]

15. The one flaw in your argument...

who lives "miles away from the superstores"??? And will they rent me the garage to live in?

[WCGreen]

23. There are some popping up now in Cleveland...

But you can be miles and miles away from any discount store in Cleveland....

[OzarkDem]

45. Especially if you don't own a car

and public transportation doesn't go to a Walmart nearby. These guys are taking advantage of people who are really in difficult financial shape and have a hard time getting by every day.

Hopping in the Bronco and driving to the suburban Walmart isn't possible for them.

[roseBudd]

31. Anyone who lives in the innercity... who buys bootleg DVDs on the street

corner. Again people who live in the inner city. You would be surprised at what gets bought and sold outside of retail.

[sgxnk]

18. what people fail to mention

is this

people here CONSTANTLY assume that since the cell phone thang is mentioned (cause it is sexy news and it was released), that this was the ONLY reason for their arrest

iow, that is the sole facts and circumstances in the PC (probable cause)

i will bet dollars to doughnuts that when the actual pc cert becomes public and/or more case facts are revealed, this will not be the sole reason, merely a piece of the puzzle

[1932]

27. "a Vendor License so that they can not buy wholesale" Huh?

Are you making this up?

[roseBudd]

30. WalMart forces suppliers to offer low prices, so the WalMart retail price

could end up being lower than the wholesale price for a small buyer. The news today states the men were going to make $5 on each phone, hence the trip to Michigan from Texas.

There are people who buy items from CostCo put them on EBay to sell at a profit. If the item doesn't sell they return it to CostCo.

[1932]

32. I see.

Right. They don't have a more favorable contract with mnfg than WalMart
has.

I read the OP to say that they didn't have a state licence that allowed them to buy from wholesalers, which would be absurd.

[roseBudd]

34. No retailer can get a better deal than WalMart, that is how Sam crushed

his competition from the very beginning.

If prepaid untraceable cellphones are as bad as they seem (drug dealers, cheating spouses, detonators) don't you think the US would ban their sale? Oops, silly me, WalMart would lobby against such a law just like they successfully prevented more inspections of containers at our ports full of goods from China.

[WCGreen]

37. From reputable dealers and not have to pay sales tax....

Even if you shop at COSTCO, you will be charged sales tax unless you have a vendors license...

[Joanne98]

28. Immigrant shop owners in LA did the same thing...

It's just more bull shit.

[primative1]

29. Can of Worms ...

Not knowing the specifics, I have to say this story interests me.
It has been all over the news this morning.
I think my best approach so as not to look like a complete fool, is to say LET THE COURTS DECIDE.
If this turns into a legit terrorist sting then hooray for the guys in the black sedans and mirrored glasses. If not then this is one of the worst cases of profiling to date and I hope these kids get to sue for a quadzillion dollars.
I dont care how someone is operating a business. To call it terrorism requires some type of proof. At least in my America.
I am still contemptuos of the fact that if I drive my deisel fueled pickup to the grain store to buy fertilizer I could be picked up on the same charge.
You have to draw a line somewhere between protection and hysteria.

[annabanana]

33. Yup, IF they get into the court system..

If they are declared "enemy combatants", every single civil right they may think they have in this country just goes "poof"..

[roseBudd]

35. Something similar happened in Cincinnati, a Middle Eastern man who owned

several small Mom and Pop stores in the inner city neighborhoods was accused of terrorism based on wired funds to middle eastern countries.

From big deal to nothing:

On Oct 3, 2003

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2003/10/03/loc_crimering03.html

Police shut down crime ring
Markets gouged the poor, laundered money


snip

Federal authorities are following up on the $37 million to see if it funded any terrorism, Humphries said. Officials here believe it did, Chief Tom Streicher said, but have no proof.

Alleged ringleader Saleh, 55, owner of Best For Less market in Over-the-Rhine, was indicted on charges of tampering with records, money laundering, conspiracy and engaging in a pattern of corrupt activity.

The other 22 people were indicted on charges

On Oct. 14, 2003

http://www.wcpo.com/news/2003/local/10/14/theftring.html


Judge States Theft Ring Case Is Not About Terrorism


A Hamilton County judge said Tuesday the recent theft ring bust involving Middl Eastern store owners in Cincinnati is not a case about terorism.
The judge handling this case was very clear Tuesday that he will treat the question of possible terrorism "as a non-existent issue - period."

Music to the ears of the wife of one of the suspects, who said she hopes to have her husband out of jail and back home Tuesday night.


Just a month or so ago I read that one of the men arrested was pressured by his defense attorney to plead guilty because after Sept. 11 there was no way he was going to get a fair trial.

[AZBlue]

39. While that might be a possibility, I don't think it is in this instance.

The three guys said that they were buying them to sell to wholesalers at a higher cost. Wholesalers could get these phones for about a 1/3 of what these guys paid for them, so that makes no sense at all. And, if they were buying them to stock some sort of store of their own, why not admit that? That's not illegal. Stupid, but not illegal. So the scenario you proposed unfortunately does not appear to apply to their particular situation.

[WCGreen]

40. I Just mentioned this to show that there are always

back stories to these kind of so called slam dunk terrorist plot....

[AZBlue]

42. Oh, absolutely!

And now they are saying that there aren't any links to terrorists for these guys.

Not that I'd trust this government to really know that or not.

[noonwitch]

41. Than why did they drive from Texas to some little town in the thumb

to buy 1000 cell phones? If they were from the Detroit area, I might see taking a short drive to find a good deal, but driving from Texas? They were up to something suspicious, whether it was terror or not.

[OneTwentyoNine]

43. Gee....sure is a LOAD of Terra lately. Right on schedule for Nov...

9/11,Fear,Terror,Terra,scare,scared,terrorists.... blah,blah blah.



Honestly,if you haven't seen V for Vendetta then RENT it tonight. Unlike what those RW idiots wanted their sheep to belive when it hit theaters that it was nothing but a film about a terrorism you'll quickly see what the film is REALLY about. Its one of the best movies I've ever seen...