Alan Dershowitz is an idiot!

[ProSense]

Alan Dershowitz
08.11.2006

Terrorism Causes Occupation, Not Vice Versa

The oft-reported mantra that "occupation causes terrorism" has been disproved over and over again by history and contemporary experience.

Just this week, the old myth was once again uncut by the arrests in Britain of two-dozen suspects in a plot to blow up ten commercial airliners. There is no British occupation about which the suspects care.

Britain, of course, is one of the freest countries on Earth. The suspects do not live--and apparently have not lived--under occupation (unless they consider the entire Christian world to be occupied by "crusaders." And yet the same slogan--that occupation causes terrorism--will persist.

Snip...

Accordingly, occupation does not cause terrorism. Terrorism is caused by the culture of death preached by radical Islamic clerics and by the world's reaction to it--namely making concessions and blaming the victims of terrorism who fight back. Terrorism persists because it is rewarded--because it works. Occupation does not cause terrorism, but terrorism does cause occupation and reoccupation. Israel would have left Gaza and much of the West Bank long ago if not for the fear of terrorism from that area. It never would have gone into southern Lebanon in 1982 were that area not being used as a base for terrorism. Now Israel has once again entered southern Lebanon to stop rocket attacks and try to retrieve its kidnapped soldiers.

more...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-dershowitz/terrorism-causes-occupati_b_27057.html

Yet, Iraq had nothing to do with the 9/11 terrorist attacks, but the U.S. and Britain invaded the country and is currently occupying it.

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Did you expect that he would take a counter-Israel position on

anything? Make an argument that would cast Israel in a bad light?

[BayouBengal07]

2. What if

their planned attack was in protest of the Israeli occupation of the West Bank and Gaza? What if, even as British citizens, they were expressing solidarity with Palestine?

[Name removed]

6. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[question everything]

27. Um... there is no Israeli occupation of Gaza

please check your facts.

And Israel was ready to withdraw from the West Bank, the Palestinian authority was in the process of prorating a referendum for them to recognize Israel, but some extremists decided they don't like this and have been shelling Israel ever since it withdrew and then dug a tunnel to kill and to kidnap Israeli soldiers.

[Douglas Carpenter]

32. B'tselem calls Gaza a prision

The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

"Gaza Prison: Freedom of Movement to and from the Gaza Strip on the Eve of the Disengagement Plan - link -

http://www.btselem.org/english/Publications/Summaries/200503_Gaza_Prison.asp



For the past four and a half years, Israel has severely restricted freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip. These restrictions further strangled the Gaza Strip, so much so that the area resembles one gigantic prison. Israel’s policies have reduced many human rights – among them the right to freedom of movement, family life, health, education, and work – to “humanitarian gestures” that Israel sparingly provides.

The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are almost completely separated from each other, and Palestinian travel between the two areas has been drastically reduced. Gazans are not allowed to enter Israel to visit relatives or to live with their spouses, and family visits by Arab citizens and residents of Israel are kept to a minimum. Israel places hardships on Palestinians wanting to leave the region, and prohibits many Palestinians from leaving. The import and export of goods is limited and often stops altogether. A small number of Gazans are allowed to work in Israel, and tens of thousands have lost their jobs.

Detachment of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the world has exacted a price from each and every Palestinian living there. The restrictions on the movement of goods and laborers has created a deep recession, the loss of work, and a dramatic deterioration in living conditions. Over the past four and a half years, the poverty rate has increased by more than 40 percent. Going abroad to obtain medical treatment or to study entails long waits. Severance of the Gaza Strip from the West Bank and Israel results in painful separation from loved ones, and in some cases the separation of children from one of their parents.

Israel’s policy did not come out of the blue, but was a response to the wave of attacks that has struck Israel and the Occupied Territories since the outbreak of the intifada. Attacks aimed at civilians are “war crimes” according to international humanitarian law and are unjustifiable in all circumstances. Israel is entitled, and required, to protect its citizens from such attacks. However, in doing so, Israel does not have the right to trample on the human rights of an entire population.

Israel implements its separation policy in a patently arbitrary and indiscriminate manner. Almost all restrictions are imposed on entire groups of people, based on sweeping criteria, without examining the threat that the individual person poses. The proof is that Israeli authorities have often chosen to reverse their refusal of a person’s request for a movement permit once an attorney or human rights organization intervenes, rather than face an embarrassing legal challenge. Most elements of Israel’s policy are illegal under international law and Israeli law.

In approving the disengagement plan, the government of Israel stated its intention to evade its responsibility for the human rights of Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip. However, all the human rights violations discussed in this report are likely to continue, and even worsen, after disengagement.

B’Tselem and HaMoked: Center for the Defence of the Individual urge the government of Israel to end its siege policy on the Gaza Strip and to respect the right of Palestinians to freedom of movement.



http://www.btselem.org/english/Maps/Index.asp

For the past four and a half years, Israel has severely restricted freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip. These restrictions further strangled the Gaza Strip, so much so that the area resembles one gigantic prison. Israel’s policies have reduced many human rights – among them the right to freedom of movement, family life, health, education, and work – to “humanitarian gestures” that Israel sparingly provides "
____________

"11 July 2006: Human rights groups to Israeli High Court: Stop the harm to the civilian population in Gaza - link:

http://www.btselem.org/english/Press_Releases/20060711.asp

http://www.btselem.org/english/Publications/Summaries/200503_Gaza_Prison.asp

Today, July 11, 2006, six human rights groups petitioned the Israeli High Court demanding that the crossings in Gaza be opened to allow for the steady and regular supply of fuel, food, medicine, and equipment, including spare parts needed to operate generators.
The groups – The Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, Hamoked: Center for Defence of the Individual, B’tselem, The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel and Gisha - Center for the Legal Protection of Freedom of Movement also asked for an urgent hearing in order to prevent serious harm to the health of the civilian population, especially patients in hospital, and to prevent the breakdown of the water and sewage system in Gaza.

During the current military operation in the Gaza Strip the Israeli military has interrupted the supply of fuel to Gaza and kept Gaza's crossings mostly closed to supply of food and other humanitarian goods. The uninterrupted supply of fuel and equipment is necessary for the functioning of Gaza's health and sanitation systems, and Gaza requires a steady supply of food and medicine.

Since Gaza's power station was destroyed on June 28, there is an increased need for fuel to power the generators in Gaza and for spare parts to keep the generators running at such a high capacity. The closure of Karni Crossing has led to shortages in food at a time when, given the difficulty of obtaining electricity to prepare and refrigerate foodstuffs, Gaza requires increased shipments of dairy products, meat, flour, and other goods.

Without a steady supply of fuel and parts, hospitals cannot perform life-saving surgery and treatment plants cannot pump and treat sewage in Gaza. Gaza hospitals have reduced their activities to life-saving procedures. Since the bombing of the power plant, Gaza's water utility has been dumping 60,000 cubic meters of raw sewage into the sea each day, for lack of power and equipment to run the treatment plants, and there is concern that untreated sewage will pollute the aquifer or spill into the streets.


Because of the electricity shortages, stores in Gaza have stopped selling meat and dairy products. Trucks laden with food and medicine have been stuck at Karni Crossing, which has been closed since July 6, including 230 containers from international aid organizations.

Withholding fuel, food, and equipment from Gaza residents constitutes collective punishment, in violation of international law. The petition argues that Israel is not fulfilling its legal obligations to provide for the needs of the civilian population and to distinguish between military and civilian targets.

According to Faysal Shawa, a businessman and Gaza resident: "We have been thrown back to the way people lived 100 years ago ... We don't have water, we don't have milk for our kids."

According to Maher Najer, Deputy Director of Gaza's Water Company: "We face severe shortages in the electricity, fuel, and spare parts needed to operate Gaza's water and sewage systems. These shortages threaten to create a public health catastrophe."

_________________

163 Palestinians killed in July in Gaza, 36 minors

"In July, the Israeli military killed 163 Palestinians in the Gaza Strip, 78 of whom (48 percent) were not taking part in the hostilities when they were killed. Thirty-six of the fatalities were minors, and 20 were women. In the West Bank , 15 Palestinians were killed by Israeli forces in July. The number of Palestinian fatalities in July was the highest in any month since April 2002. " link: http://www.btselem.org/english/firearms/20060803_Civilians_killed_in_Gaza.asp
___________

20 July 2006: Israeli Soldiers use civilians as Human Shields in Gaza including children

"B'Tselem's initial investigation indicates that, during an incursion by Israeli forces into Beit Hanun, in the northern Gaza Strip, on 17 July 2006, soldiers seized control of two buildings in the town and used residents as human shield. "

link:

http://www.btselem.org/english/Human_Shields/20060720_Human_Shields_in_Beit_Hanun.asp

[question everything]

33. Your first story is from March, 2005

Israel withdrew from Gaza later that year

Your second story follows the escalation of attacks. As I said - as soon as Israel withdrew, Gaza started shelling Israeli communities. Then Hamas - a terrorist organization that, like Hezbollah is not interested in any negotiations or withdrawal but a complete annihilation of Israel, and world Jewry - dug tunnels to Israel proper, killed and kidnapped soldiers. The events that you descried are a result of that attack, when Israel was searching for the kidnapped soldier.

Over reaction? Who are you, or I, to sit safely across the ocean and criticize people who are fighting for their lives?

[Douglas Carpenter]

34. perhaps the people of Gaza are fighting for their lives too

and the IDF still maintains control of air and sea and surrounded on all sides

Hamas would accept Saudi peace plan, spokesman says
Group would stop attacks on Israelis if occupation ends

"04-28) 04:00 PDT Gaza City -- In a startling move, the militant Islamic movement Hamas has accepted the terms of the Saudi peace proposal and is willing to stop attacks on Israel if it returns to pre-1967 borders, a Hamas spokesman told The Chronicle.

The spokesman, Ismail Abu Shanab, said that if Israel agrees to the Saudi plan, which calls for the Jewish state to return to its pre-1967 borders in return for "normal relations" with Arab nations, Hamas will "cease all military activities."

"That would be satisfactory for all Palestinian military groups to stop and build our state, to be busy in our own affairs, and have good neighborhood with Israelis," he said.

link:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/04/28/MN222422.DTL

____________

Hamas 'implicitly accepts Israel' Tuesday, 27 June 2006, 17:24 GMT 18:24 UK

Hamas' Ismail Haniya will reveal details of the deal
Palestinian militant group Hamas has agreed to a document backing a two-state solution to the conflict with Israel, officials say.

link:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5121164.stm

[Douglas Carpenter]

43. More on Gaza

from FAIR (Fairness and Accuracy in reporting):

link:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2921

"From the time of the pullout until the recent upsurge in violence, according to B’tselem’s lists, no Israelis were killed by violence emanating from Gaza. Although during this period Palestinian militants launched some 1,000 crude Kasam missiles from Gaza into Israel, no fatalities resulted; at the same time, Israel fired 7,000 to 9,000 heavy artillery shells into Gaza. On June 9, just two weeks before the Hamas raid that killed two Israeli soldiers and captured a third, an apparent Israeli missile strike killed seven members of a Palestinian family picnicking on a Gaza beach, which prompted Hamas to end its 16-month-old informal ceasefire with Israel. (Though Israel has denied responsibility for the killings, a Human Rights Watch investigation strongly challenged the denial, calling the likelihood of Israel not being responsible "remote"; Human Rights Watch, 6/15/06.) Hamas has repeatedly pointed to the Gaza beach incident as one of the central events that prompted its cross-border raid—indeed, Schieffer's own CBS Evening News has reported that claim (CBS Evening News, 6/25/06). Even so, Schieffer seems unable to recall this recent event (see Action Alert, 6/30/06).

Hamas also points to the capture of some of its leaders by Israel as the provocation for its raid. If Israelis had every right, as Schieffer said, to respond with force to the capture of one soldier by Hamas, then how are Palestinians expected to feel about the more than 9,000 prisoners captured and held by Israel—including 342 juveniles and over 700 held without trial (Mandela Center for Human Rights, 4/30/06)?

Moreover, Israel's withdrawal did not remotely give Palestinians "what they wanted." In addition to its continued deadly attacks on Gaza, Israel has continued to control Gaza’s borders and has withheld tens of millions of dollars of tax revenue in response to Hamas’ victory in democratic elections in January 2006. Israel’s actions crippled the Gaza economy and prompting warnings from the U.N. of a looming humanitarian disaster (UNRWA, 7/8/06).

None of this is to say that Hamas, which has regularly ignored the distinction between military and civilian targets, does not share part of the blame for the current crisis. But to act as though Israel had been behaving as a peace-loving neighbor to Gaza until the soldier’s capture is a willful rewriting of very recent history. "

snip:"
Israel’s “response” has resulted in the deaths to date of at least 103 Palestinians, while no Israelis have died other than one soldier killed by friendly fire (New York Times, 7/19/06). Meanwhile, Israel has also destroyed Gaza's main power plant and its water system, leaving tens of thousands of Gaza families without access to food, water and medical care (Oxfam, 7/19/06). In Lebanon, Israel has killed over 300 people, the vast majority of them civilians, wounded over 1000 and displaced half a million (MSNBC, 7/19/06). To call such devastation an "excuse" for Arabs to “distance themselves from Israel” is a trivialization of real human suffering."

[wryter2000]

3. Ye gods.

There is no British occupation about which the suspects care.

It's spelled I-R-A-Q.

[Kutjara]

4. Dershowitz clearly doesn't understand the first thing...

...about Muslim culture and the long-standing doctrine of community self-defense. Under Islam, an attack on one Muslim is identical to an attack on the entire Muslim community (the Ummah). This doctrine emerged in the early days of Islam, when small Muslim communities were often attacked by non-Muslims. The doctrine made would-be attackers pause for thought, because they knew they risked bringing the wrath of all Muslims down on their heads. It was very effective and has become an entrenched feature of Islam ever since.

So, although Britain and the US are not 'occupied,' Iraq and Afghanistan are occupied by Britain and the US, making them legitimate targets of Muslim community self-defense in the eyes of would-be Jihadists.

[The Magistrate]

24. Take Off The Trappings Of Religiousity, Sir

That is hardly original or uplifting....

"When an Angel punches non-Angel, all other a join in."

[question everything]

28. But this is true.

In the Muslim world the unit is a tribe, while in the West, including Israel, it is the individual. This is why they do not mourn suicide bombers but celebrate their martyrdom.

[The Magistrate]

29. That Is A Line, Ma'am, It Is Not Wise To Push Too Far

Whether true or not. If treated seriously as a guide to action, it provides no reason for restraint, but rather incentives to indiscriminant violence....

[CJCRANE]

42. I don't think the west is that different

in some ways. Let's the neocon "honeytrap" idea, i.e. "fighting them over there".

The simple logic behind this is that you place a large amount of US troops in an arab country and allow them to become the targets
of insurgents/terrosits etc. But for every American you lose you kill let's say 10 insurgents/terrorists. That isn't that different from the mathematical logic of the suicide bomber. One person sacrifices for the group. That's why we have to "stay the course" (apparently).

on edit: the muslims call them "martyrs", the neocons call them "patriots" or "heroes" but it still amounts to pretty much the same thing.

[CJCRANE]

39. I'm f*cking angry

about the occupation of Iraq and I'm not a muslim. It's a crime done in my name and I'm not happy about it.

I'm even more angry because B*sh and Blair were warned it would increase terrorism but they went ahead anyway.

[Wickerman]

5. Alan has a long history of being emphatic on this topic

He has very well-established view on Israel and tolerates no diversion from his views.

His actions as outlined in his letter in this letter to the Crimson nearly resulted in a distinguished professor of Theology losing tenure, simply for stating his opinion. Not satisfied with a public unbridling, Dershowitz insisted on a public debate. Sure, an academic is going to debate on public stage a world renown orator/talking head. I have no respect for the man.

http://www.thecrimson.com/article.aspx?ref=254140

[RethugAssKicker]

7. I used to admire him.... until I realized he is an

unrelenting Zionist !

[eleny]

8. Even he must know that his analogy is apples and oranges

[Lindacooks]

9. He must have flunked logic in law school.

Does he really think that the country you live in is the only factor in your beliefs? If the 'suspects' who are British had any relatives in an occupied country, say Iraq or Lebanon, that would be a factor, maybe THE factor in their decision to pursue a terrorist plot. And not only that - if they feel an affinity with any occupied peoples they'll act on it.

Does he have Alzheimers? He sure acts like it.

[whosinpower]

10. Sure....it makes perfect sense

To build SETTLEMENTS in areas that you KNOW terrorism exists. This is Dershowitz intelligence talking. That makes perfect sense. (sarcasm for those who are unable to fathom it)

[booley]

11. Lets use his "logic" elsewhere

The oft-reported mantra that "decapitation causes death" has been disproved over and over again by history and contemporary experience.
Why? becuase i have known lots of people who have died and absolutely NONE from decapitation. Thinsg other then decapitation cuased the deaths of those people I knew. In fact, the United States is one of the most Decapitation free countries in the world.

Ergo, decapitation does not cause death.

yep, Dershowitz is an idiot.

[Monk06]

21. Or..............

All men are mortal

Socrates is a woman

Ergo Socrates is immortal


*Wait a minute. That's not how it goes*


Some moslems are terrorists

All moslems are moslems

Ergo all moslems are terrorists


*Yeah that's the ticket*

[Fredda Weinberg]

12. Pakistanis martyring themselves for Iraq?

That doesn't make much sense.

I wish we could consider seriously the differences between fundamentalist Islam and other modern religions.

[ProSense]

15. Where does it say that in the OP?

Dershowitz seems to think that terrorism is linked to borders and not ideology, meaning terrorism can exist within a state, but apart from it (it does in the U.S.). This kind of thinking leads to the belief that bombing or simply a presence can stem terrorism. Iraq has certainly disproved that.

The fact is trying to say terrorism drives occupation doesn't make much sense. By that logic, the U.S. is now justified in its occupation of Iraq because the illegal invasion opened the country to terrorist groups. It is convoluted logic.

[Fredda Weinberg]

16. Dershowitz is talking about the 2 dozen suspects, several

happen to be Pakistani. So why should they sacrifice their lives to free Iraq?

Like it or not, the US *is* an example where a determined minority defeated a less well-equipped indigenous population and defended itself against decades of resistance.

bin Laden didn't want the US out of Saudi Arabia because it was his homeland; he wanted infidels off of holy soil. I wish DUers had a clearer understanding of those who, for reasons we would not consider rational, wish to see us defeated.

No matter how much we dislike this administration, we'd like Islamic fundamentalism even less. For NYers who saw the WTC attacked under Democratic and Republican administrations, the partisan politics means less than an effective strategy to defeat their tactics.

[ProSense]

17. Where does it say they sacrificed their lives to free Iraq? n/t

[IntiRaymi]

25. Fredda, you bought the whole party line, didn't you?

That is not how I see it. The whole idea of this being about religion is false, as it can easily be seen that its about resources.
You name it: Water, Oil, strategic primacy, etc.
The religious ruse only affects religious people, and religious people get very motivated over these things. While these statements admit the existence of religious freaks that are out to get us, it also implies that you can maneuver your way around them using diplomacy.
So please stop quivering in your boots!

[CJCRANE]

40. B*sh is part of the problem.

And for your information B*sh removed US troops from Saudi soil after 9/11. So who's B*sh working for again?

[CJCRANE]

36. Excuse me

but the London bombers specifically stated in their videotaped statements that their actions were a response to the occupation of Iraq.

Young men dying for a cause is nothing new. Remember the Spanish Civil War when Brits and Americans flew over to join in?
Not to mention American kids who specifically join the military to go and kill Iraqis (they are minority but it still happens).

[PATRICK]

13. Odd

A recent study came to this conclusion that I never heard before as some sort of myth. Certainly the opposite view, that occupation is meaningless as a source of terrorism and some mythos of global evil is better as a particular explanation is pretty wild as an about face. neither declamation is substantiated but the evidence about occupations breeding terrorists is not even touched upon. Most individuals especially are motivated not by any mythic extremism but simply because their land is occupied and they have no means to fight back. The study had specifically to do with suicide attacks, the most extreme form of action supposedly by the least ideological and psychologically extreme of people.

Now other types of terror warfare like bombs etc, have more strategic and global complications. States engage in this all the time in the murkiest of motivations. But suicide attacks taken by itself is almost always allied with occupation. Notably the people in these plots were really motivated by a number of factors INCLUDING the British occupation of Iraq and intentions against other Muslim nations. they don't get into the books because they failed of course. The example of the London bombers- and their success- probably encouraged this larger effort. The suicide bombers of 9/11 were inspired by US presence on their soil among other things. It is without this aggressive presence by invading forces that these types of attacks do not happen.

Unfortunately for Israel, their whole nation is seen as an occupation of Palestine. One solution would have been to embrace and include the Palestinians and restore them to their homeland. Not all people move on over time without reconciliation. Some lacking hope have this way of denying it to their enemies.

The one doing the study was at pains only to study suicide attacks and the majority of specific cases, NOT terrorism as a whole. All the extra implications and expansions and counter shoutouts seem to erase the facts. The problem may not be Arabs denying the Jewish state's right to exist but that it does not exist except as a foreign occupying force. Since they can't beat that force conventionally.... But it is the palestinians who send the most suicide bombers not Al Qaeda. In Iraq there are more suicide bombers because the masses are occupied not because Al Qaeda is an outside sh** disturber. Outside attacks are very rare and most involve suicide because there is no other easy option to take out a big target. Lockerbie was state sponsored terrorism. For zealots in a holy war, their lands defiled and occupied, it was ideological but never would have happened if our main assault on Islam was pop music and jeans.

It is amazing how few really unpredictable crazy people there are who can maintain enough brainpower and skill to accomplish great harm. Unless they are selected by the SCOTUS and election fraud.

[displacedtexan]

14. For me, Dershowitz lost it after 9/11, when he said that...

... torture would be OK in some instances if it
resulted in good intel.

GGGRRR!!!

[IntiRaymi]

26. That was about it for me.

I thought he was cool: He had been featured in a movie starring Jeremy Irons. He seemed charismatic, etc, etc.
But the realization now is that the is just merciless zionist attack pit bull.

[AzDar]

18. Ridiculous and disappointing ...from a man I used to admire. n/t

[guidod]

19. It's nothing more than

annother person being blinded by "faith".

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[adriennui]

22. i don't like dershowitz either.

he defends already convicted murderers on appeal who have been sentenced to death.

[question everything]

30. This is what lawyers do

they are expected to shoot holes in the prosecution case. This is what our legal system is based to err on letting the guilty go free rather than to jail (and execute) the innocent.

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. Dershowitz accuses Norman Finkelstein's late mother being a naziz

collaborator -- of course with out the slightest shred of evidence.

link:

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=129

Professor Finkelstein:

"On a brief biographical note, my mother grew up in Warsaw, Poland and was a survivor of the Warsaw ghetto, Maidanek concentration camp and two slave-labor camps. Every member of her family in Poland was exterminated. After the war she was a key witness at a Nazi deportation hearing in the U.S. and at the trial of Maidanek concentration camp guards in Germany. My late father survived the Warsaw ghetto, Auschwitz concentration camp and the Auschwitz death march. His entire family in Poland was also exterminated." -

"Shortly after University of California Press announced publication on my book Beyond Chutzpah, Professor Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School began alleging that my late mother was, or I believed she was, a Nazi collaborator during World War II. In an article for FrontPageMag.com ("Why is the University of California Press Publishing Bigotry?" 5 July 2005), Dershowitz stated that " suspects his mother of having been a kapo ('really, how else would she have survived?' he asks rhetorically)," while in a statement posted on Harvard University Law School's official webpage, Dershowitz wrote that "He suspects his own mother of being a kapo and cooperating with the Nazis during the Holocaust" (law.harvard.edu/faculty/dershowitz/). A more elaborate version of this claim appeared in Dershowitz's book The Case for Peace:"

full article

http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/article.php?pg=11&ar=129

[Joe Bacon]

31. Now, now, He's still looking for Nicole's killer.

I'm just curious as to when he and OJ will go looking for the killer on yet another golf course?

[mitchum]

35. Not an idiot, but a rabid Zionist

[cool user name]

37. Dershy would make Goebbels proud. n/t

[CJCRANE]

38. So Americans

can bomb Iraq as a response to 9/11 which was carried out by Saudis but...

British Pakistanis can't get incensed by "shock and awe" on Iraq?

[leesa]

41. Typical. Israel only occupies this land because of terrorism...they don't

land grab and settle. If there weren't terrorists, Israel would abide by UN resolution 242 and give back the land that was taken. But we keep terrorism alive and well so we can go on taking land forever.