Lieberman cost Gore the 2000 election.

[bananas]

Somebody had to say it.

[Captain Hilts]

1. Gore should have picked another VViet and had camo logos. nt

[LSparkle]

5. He almost picked Kerry -- and should have

Or Edwards ... ANYBODY but Joementum!!!!

[bananas]

21. That's what I heard - it was supposed to be Kerry. nt

[nam78_two]

22. That would have been a neat ticket

I always liked Kerry though he was apparently not that popular with the dem base :shrug:

Don't give a rat's ass about folksiness blah blah blah

Man that would have been such a pro-environment ticket :(...Global warming wouldn't have us in such a pickle right now possibly :(....

And when it comes down to it I would like to have a beer with Gore or Kerry as well....

[Cascadian]

44. A Gore/Kerry ticket would have gained more votes.

In fact, I think the debacle in Florida would have been just a sidenote because Gore would have won even more votes had he picked somebody like Kerry. Choosing Lieberman was a huge mistake!


John

[Cascadian]

45. dupe

dupe

[invictus]

52. If Gore picked Kerry, he would have won.

Kerry could have easily carried New Hampshire in 2000 as he did in 2004.

[ShrewdlyDone]

2. True,

It was one of the reasons I voted for Bush the first time around.

[leveymg]

11. Wonder how many others did the same? Welcome to DU, SD.

Unlikely choosing him gained a lot of votes that would have gone to Bush, otherwise. Undeniably, it was a way of keeping a major funding base with the Party, though.

:hi:

[El Supremo]

12. Welcome to DU!

Glad you had a brain transplant.

[laylah]

47. Welcome!

Glad you have seen the light! Stick around, the outstanding intelligence and dedication do OUR democracy (republic...whatever) will grow on you. You have come to the best place in this country to find support and the wisdom of how things should, and will, be, come November. :toast:

Jenn

[AlienGirl]

48. Why? Since Lieberman's positions are on the RW end of the party scale

Why would you see it as better to vote for a real right-winger like Bush instead of Gore/Lieberman, especially considering that the problem with Lieberman is he's too right-wing?

Tucker

[cali]

53. I know I'm supposed to be gracious and all

but I don't see how Lieberman on the ticket factored in to your voting for bush. Frankly, I'd take Lieberman over bush any old day, and I'm certainly not a Lieberman fan.

[tomp]

55. so dick cheney was ok with you?

du really is for all stripes, isn't it?

[bullimiami]

3. gore won the 2000 election. lieberman was a liability i agree.

had to be one of the worst vp choices ever.

florida was 'fixed' for w no matter what.
they were prepared to send republican electors in the event the fixing failed and regardless of the voters.

[chefgirl]

4. And I've been waiting to see someone say it

Quite frankly, the day Gore announced Lieberman as his running mate, my Republican parents asked me what I thought of his choice of running mate.

My answer, "Gore just lost the election"

-chef-

[Totallybushed]

6. Nonsense.

The election was stolen. Right? And Leiberman didn't do it.

that's not to say Leiberman should have won yesterday. CT voters made the right choice.

[CrushTheDLC]

7. Gore won the 2000 election

I'm no fan of Holy Joe at all, and certainly believe Al could have picked a better running mate. But he won that fucking election, and I'll never let it be spun otherwise.

Jeb Bush. Cruella Harris. Choice Point databases. Falsified absentee ballots. Corrupt Bush Family appointed Supreme Court. That's what "lost" 2000.

[primative1]

8. Where was Lieberman in 2004?

Does anyone remember if he actualy supported us in the 04 election. I dont recall him being anything more than a fly on the wall.

[leveymg]

15. There were some Lieberman people w/the Kerry Travelers in PA

I had a long conversation with one of them on the bus ride back to DC one Sunday.

He seemed to be particularly interested in why my employer at the time had declined to accept federal contracts for work in Iraq. I got a weird feeling he was taking names or something.

[meganmonkey]

9. I've been saying it for years

I voted Nader in 2000, in large part because I didn't want to live my life knowing I had ever voted for Lieberman.

Unfortunately, around here, nobody ever gets past the word 'Nader'

:)

[villager]

16. what the hell, somebody in this same thread voted for Bush

in that election, so you're off the hook!

[CrispyQ]

10. And I thought it was Ralph. Go figure. --nt

:eyes:

[CrushTheDLC]

28. Turns out Ralph was at least half right after all

There are obviously some major differences between Gore and Chimpy, but not so much between Holy Joe and the Tin Man.

[bananas]

58. Yup. nt

[Fridays Child]

13. Gore won. A bought-and-paid-for RW SCOTUS majority cost him...

...his rightful place in the White House.

[wyldwolf]

14. hmmm... SCOTUS, Nader, Donna Brazile... and Lieberman..

...think GORE had anthing to do with it?

[YDogg]

18. Yeah, Gore could have made much better choices.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[nam78_two]

23. you forgot media smearing and no Gore had nothing to do with it imo/nt

[hughee99]

27. Exactly...

While Lieberman may have cost him the election (leaving aside the specific election scandals), it was Gore who put him on the ticket, and for that, has to be considered at least partly responsible.

[Uncle Joe]

29. Don't forget

impeachment, scandal, the mob in Florida, the media which trashed and slandered him because he empowered you and the rest of us when he championed the internet. Personally, I believe the real motivaton for the witch hunt against Clinton was to keep Al from coming to power.

Everything is relevant, I imagine if Clinton had been able to keep his pants zipped, Al may have had more latitude in his V.P. choice.

[truebrit71]

17. The only reason he was picked was for the Florida vote...

..and he cut and ran as soon as the fix was in there...

[slampoet]

34. Exactly!

The whole reason to have a VP is to have someone to go on the news daily and attack the opposition in ways that the actual full-Prez cannot.

Do you think that Bob Dole would have backed down like Lieber? Hell No! Dole would have called the opposition a bunch of unamerican cowards if they had dared look like they were going to claim victory without every vote counted.

All Joe had to do is say that was "Benjamin Franklin would be ashamed of you George!!" but Joe didn't and now we know why. And because Joe didn't we have ALL known that his political obituary was already signed. Too bad it took so long for some to figure it out.

[RamboLiberal]

37. That and remember he spoke out against Clinton's

BJ. So he was part of countering the "values voters" and the rabid Clinton hatred stirred up by the RW.

I've never forgiven Lieberman for the MTP interview during the recount when he just folded on the illegal overseas military votes (sent in after election day) that Repukes were waving their patriotic military flag on.

[deaniac21]

63. But Gore didn't even win his home state of Tennessee....

[nam78_two]

19. Gore/Feingold 2008

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

Lets turn that productive anger now into re-enlisting Prez Gore for 2008 :D

[Crunchy Frog]

24. I agree.

He never seemed like he much wanted the job. He acted like he didn't give a damn whether his ticket won or lost. It's not like he had anything to lose, since he continued to run for his Senate seat; great vote of confidence there.

I'm amazed at the contrast between how deferential he was toward Bush and Cheney, and how incredibly disrespectful he is toward Ned Lamont. If he had fought for his ticket in 2000 the way he's fighting for his seat now, Gore probably would have won.

Edit: Yes I know Gore technically "won", but I think having Lieberman on the ticket helped make it close enough for Bush to steal.

[wakeme2008]

25. Joe cost Gore thousands of votes in Florida...

60,000 voting Muslims, 80% went with Bush in 2000. Part of the reason was Joe's religion...

Do not tell me Gore really won Florida,,, I know that,,, he just did not win it with enough votes....

IMHO Senator Graham of Florida (ex) would have added 50,000 + votes to Gore side..... but it wasn't to be :cry:

[we can do it]

26. PSSST- Gore REALLY DID WIN

[rep the dems]

39. That's true, we all know the 2000 election was about as rigged as

it gets. I hate the fact that now a days when we say that people just say we're sore losers. Ugh.

[opihimoimoi]

30. Gore should have KNOWN BETTER...I bet he regrets it daily

Joe is an asshole who everyone loves to rag on...fuck him and his Bush Kiss

[LittleClarkie]

31. Nader just called. He wants his spot back.

Actually, you could blame it on a number of folks. Joe wasn't any more to blame than Gore, or Brazille, or the MSM.

[deaniac21]

32. Nobody votes for president based on the vice presidential

candidate.

[slampoet]

35. see my post #34. That is the duty of the VP that Joe failed.

VP is the attack dog. When your dog licks the burglars, get rid of 'em.

[deaniac21]

54. I won't even tell you what my dog licks....

[Awsi Dooger]

33. Punch cards cost Gore the election

And changed the world. But for some reason we have less animosity to them than DREs.

Bob Graham would have put it out of reach even for the vote purging and the punch card loss, as another poster mentioned upthread.

[Superman Returns]

36. First,

Gore won the 2000 election. Secondly, Liberman is a tool now, but back in 2000 he helped us in Florida to a degree.

[Vadem]

38. On Washington Journal this morning, Donna Brazille took

credit for placing Lieberman on Gore's ticket as VP! Donna, one of the best friends of Karl Rove, according to her.

[flaminbats]

40. which state did Lieberman cause Gore to lose?

actually Lieberman didn't cost Gore the election, he just didn't help Gore in the Electoral College. Gore won half a million more votes than Bush did, all he needed was another state..like N.H. or Florida.

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/index.html

[applegrove]

41. No. Joe's record then was great. He was popular. Gore didn't know

what hit him in terms of Rove and GOP machinations. And when the debate about Florida got so sordid that it was diminishing the USA.. Gore took the high road to end the messy squabble. Not realizing that that was the only way the GOP could win that one. That some people are good and kind and will not destroy everything around them to get ahead.. and others.. the GOP in Florida..will debase a country..will debase a system..will push good people beyond their capability to fight.. in order to win.

This GOP focuses on nothing but winning. Doesn't matter who is destroyed.. or that their own country has the most backward health care system in the Western World. All that matters is the win. So they can win some more.

Takes a long time for normal adults to "get" what they are dealing with and begin to fight the psychopaths with might. If Gore had to do it now, today, ... get down in the dirt and fight like crazy over Florida recounts.. no doubt he would do it in a flash. But he is older and wiser now. The whole Democratic Party likely has a plan for after the November election and the expected recounts that will take place. Cause the whole Party is wiser. Except for Joe Lieberman who sees himself not as being spoon-fed by the *WH (he is being spoon-fed solutions to his greatest reptilian brain fears after his greatest reptilian fears have been put into crisis by the lack of negotiation with Iran over a decade & the Iraq war) and thinks it is a good thing this * WH. Yummy!

Lieberman didn't hurt Gore in 2000. He was well qualified to be a Dem VP and had a great record. He was very popular. He was my favorite Candidate on the slate of Dem hopefuls.

Lieberman has since been debased and diminished by his neocon & GOP friends. So now they own him.. having destroyed his old network. Destroyed his old context. And hung him out to be skewered by Joe's old supporters. And now.. they will jew-bait with this election loss. They will get people into a paranoid stance and get the fight to bubble over between Left Dems and Israeli Hawk Dems. Both sides will feel attacked by the other. And over time the fight will degenerate.. and they'll take swipes at each other... and Rove will stir the pot.. and degenerate... and Rove will stir the pot. Thirty Year Empires are hard work are they not? Karl must be exhausted!!

Perhaps Joe will be able to write some day what it is like to be a patsy or a pawn of an aggressive and manipulative and bullying power network.. the size of which we have not seen since the early 1930s in Germany. (Well you have not seen it in the USA till *). For now.. I doubt he sees the forest for the trees. He is reptilian brain boy... and as such will keep doing reptilian things ...but some day he will see how far he has gone... in the last 6 years.

NOBODY HAD A PROBLEM WITH JOE in 2000. NOBODY!! So stop it with the "re-history".

[lisainmilo]

42. Gore won the election

Gore won the election, Bush falsely took the election.

[AtomicKitten]

43. A judicial coup d'etat cost Gore the election in 2000.

eom

[Cascadian]

46. Anybody remember that so-called Lieberman-Cheney debate?

Lieberman was so kissing Cheney's rump. It was more of a joke than a true debate. The 1988 Lloyd Bentsen - Dan Qualye debate was better than that one!


John

[tomp]

56. agreed. that debate was a disgusting display by lieberman.

i particularly remember cheney lying and saying government had nothing to do with his wealth accumulation at halliburton when halliburton had hundreds of millions in contracts with the govt. joe let it slide. i almost put a shoe through the screen. i knew then he was not to be trusted and had contributed to the dem ticket's demise.

[fuzzyball]

49. Are you serious Lieberman lost it for Gore and not Diebold or SCOTUS?

[PurityOfEssence]

50. Gore fucked himself--even though he won--by teaming with Quisling Joe

Joe Lieberman, liberal and decent though he has always been on workers' rights and a host of other good causes, is a prissy, sanctimonious, narcissistic little user. He vaulted to national prominence when he reared up on his high-horse of snotty superiority to fuck Bill Clinton at a moment of crisis.

Al Gore, much as he's a good guy, was spooked by the backlash against Clinton's dalliances, and brought in Joe as a running mate to make the point that he was moral and upright. That was cowardly, stupid and just plain political idiocy. Unwilling to fight the bare-knuckled ugliness brought forth by the Republicans, Gore took hit after hit. The contesting of only four counties in the flagrantly fraudulent bullshit that passed for voting in Florida in '00 sealed his fate: had he contested the ENTIRE STATE, he would have won by any measure, but by being meek and just fighting a few battles, Gore looked like he was playing games. Hell, he guy won the popular vote by something like 552,000 votes, but he looked like he was playing games.

Back to Lieberman.

Yes, he's a good guy when it comes to social policy, the environment, labor, and virtually all other core issues that matter to those with consciences. The problems come from his being in the pocket of the Insurance industry--which caused him to kill anti-Enron legislation--his tight-assed moralist weirdness that intrudes on the first amendment at every turn, his desire to tear down the separation of church and state, his blinkered love of Israel that brooks no mitigation and his gigantic ego. For someone to stand steadfast against the waves of reality, one needs to be a towering force, not a mealy-mouthed nebbish sniveling about his moral uprightness. He got away with a lot, but his political career since 1998 was one of ugly opportunism and personal bigotry. He hated Hussein and would use any excuse to fuck resolute muslims. Israel must, in his mind, do as it pleases, regardless of anyone else. To stomp a few Arabs here and there was merely a response, just like killing a mosquito.

Beyond all else, the man's a narcissist; few exist in his world other than him.

In the end, he is not a pluralist, and that's why he shouldn't be embraced by those who value the covenant of cosmopolitanism. Aristocracy is selfishness, and this is why he doesn't belong in a party of fairness.

[MethuenProgressive]

51. It is because Joe's a Jew.

The south (not counting Florida) with all its "Christians" will never vote for someone who "doesn't believe in Jesus" to be one heartbeat away from being President. You can't win a Presidential election without the south's electorial college votes, and I just don't believe they're ready to vote for a Jew. (or anything but a white Christian male, for that matter)

[AlGore-08.com]

57. I hate to break in here with reality but Gore started out 20 points behind

This was back in 1999, a year and a half before he picked a running mate. By the time of the convention, Gore was only 10 points behind. He ended up winning by 1/2 million more votes than Smirk. If Lieberman had been a drag on the ticket, Gore would have lost by at least 10 points, if not more.

Here is Zogby's poll results after the Dem convention (Gore's gain later evened out to be 10%, because almost all post-convention polls have an inflated positive result).

http://zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=251

Gore Bounces Back; Trails Bush by Only 3.1%; Lieberman choice overwhelmingly supported

ReutersZogby survey reveals

Democratic Presidential nominee Al Gore has dramatically closed the gap in the race for president and now trails Republican Presidential nominee George W. Bush by only 3.1%, according to a new Reuters/Zogby poll conducted Friday through Sunday.

(snip)

By a margin of 66.9% to 22.2%, likely voters approve of Gore’s selection of Joseph Lieberman as his vice presidential running mate. By 15.5% to 3.4% likely voters are more likely to support Gore because of his choice of Lieberman.

(snip)

Pollster John Zogby: "Gore has consolidated key Democratic groups such as labor and minorities, the same groups Bush earlier had been threatening. Gore is now polling as a successful Democrat should poll among Independents, suburbanites and women."

(more... )


Here are some more polls from August of 2000 to show what people thought of both Clinton and Lieberman at that time:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/06/cnn.time.poll/index.html

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Favorable Ratings
Former President Bush 73%
Hillary Clinton 45
Bill Clinton 42

Sampling error: +/-3% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
How Clinton Has Handled His Job as President
Approve 57%
Disapprove 40

Sampling error: +/-3% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Whose Opinions Do You Respect More?
Former President Bush 61%
Bill Clinton 34

Sampling error: +/-3% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 4-5
Who Would You Vote For?
Former President Bush 53%
Bill Clinton 42

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/13/cnn.poll/

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 11-12

Does Vice President Al Gore's ties with President Bill Clinton make you feel more favorably toward Gore or less favorably toward Gore, or do they have no effect on your view of him?

More favorable 7%
Less favorable 32
No effect 60


Sampling error: +/-3% pts


CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 11-12

Please tell me whether you think Al Gore, if elected in November, would do a better job, about the same, or not as good a job as President Clinton in handling the job of president.

Economy Moral Leadership
Better 16% 58%
Worse 17 12
Same 60 27


Sampling error: +/-3% pts


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/11/cnn.poll/index.html

CNN/TIME POLL
August 9-10
What is your opinion of Vice President Gore?

Yes No
Too close to Clinton 49% 45%
Strong leader 42 49
Someone you admire 40 56

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

CNN/TIME POLL
August 9-10
Is Gore too close to President Clinton?

Now 1999
Yes 49% 55%
No 45 37

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

CNN/TIME POLL
August 9-10
As a presidential candidate, do you think Al Gore is more a candidate in his own right, that is based on his qualifications, or more a creation of Bill Clinton choosing him as vice president?

Creation of Clinton 45%
Based on his own
qualifications 42

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/21/cnn.poll/

Sampling error: +/-3% pts

As you may know, the independent counsel in the Monica Lewinsky case is assembling a grand jury to decide whether or not to charge Bill Clinton with a crime once he leaves office. Does this make you more or less likely to vote for Al Gore in November?

More likely for Gore 22%
Less likely for Gore 23
No effect 53

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


Additionally, do you think Bill Clinton should or should not be charged in a court of law with a crime for these matters, after he leaves office?

Yes 41%
No 54

Sampling error: +/-3% pts


http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/07/cnn.poll/index.html

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
Lieberman's Criticism of Bill Clinton
More favorable 26%
Less favorable 21
No difference 50

Sampling error: +/-4% pts

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/ALLPOLITICS/stories/08/07/cnn.poll/

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
Opinion of Joe Lieberman
Favorable 37%
Unfavorable 10
Unsure 53

Sampling error: +/-4% pts

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
Choice of Lieberman As Running Mate
Excellent 18%
Pretty good 35
Only fair 21
Poor 7
Unsure 19

Sampling error: +/-4% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
V.P. Choices
Lieberman Cheney

Excellent/good 53% 55%
Only fair/poor 28 34

Sampling error: +/-4% pts
CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
Effect of V.P. Choice On Your Vote
Lieberman Cheney

More likely 16% 14%
Less likely 4 10
No effect 76 72

Sampling error: +/-4% pts

CNN/USA TODAY/GALLUP POLL
August 7
How Lieberman Choice Reflects on Gore's Ability to Make Decisions
Favorably 57%
Unfavorably 19

Sampling error: +/-4% pts

And here are some results from the 2000 exit polls, showing that Clinton was still very much a factor in the race, and Lieberman was not a drag on the ticket:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/index.epolls.html

Lieberman's Religion Makes Him
Better V.P. 17%
Worse V.P. 8%
No Effect 72 %

If You Were Voting For V.P.
Lieberman 46%
Cheney 48%

Clinton Job Rating
Approve 57%
Disapprove 41%

Opinion of Clinton as a person
Favorable 36%
Unfavorable 60%
No Opinion 4%

Opinion of Clinton (Job performance/As a person)
Approve/Like 35%
Approve/Dislike 20%
Disapprove/Like 1%
Disapprove/Dislike 39%

Clinton in History Books For
Leadership 29%
Scandals 68%

Higher Priority for President
Managing Government 60%
Moral Leadership 34%

Reason For Your Vote
To Support Clinton 10%
To Oppose Clinton 18%
Clinton Not A Factor 70%

[QueenOfCalifornia]

59. Diebold lost the election for Gore --

It wouldn't have mattered who Gore's running mate was... Jeb Bush and Florida along with the Diebold machines Fucked the Democrats out of the WH...

Lieberman didn't help any ... the fix was in...

Rat bastards.

[SoCalDemGrrl]

60. Ahem... Gore WON the 2000 election but with Lieberman on the ticket it

was closer than it should have been and allowed Bushco to steal it.

IMHO if anyone but Lieberman was his running mate, Gore would have

had such an overwhelming lead that all the Diebolds in the world

wouldn't have mattered.....

[Duke Newcombe]

61. Could be another possibility...

...like not carrying his home state, and (pains me greatly to say it), his boss' personal shennanigans shaving just enough off of his pre-election leads to hand the presidency to...oh screw it--I had just managed to talk myself in from the ledge, too...

Duke

[Lilith Velkor]

62. It's bullshit, but yeah

...somebody had to say it.

[MontanaMaven]

64. Edwards on the Short List

Gore is terrific and smart, but a bit of an Eeyore. A bit sad...Someone who tries to pick himelf up and does. Two Eeyores i.e. Gore and Kerry would have none of the optimism that Americans respond to whether it's fake optimism and love of the people like Reagan and Bush or genuine optimism like Clinton, RFK or JFK. Edwards speaks to Americans belief in Hope over Fear like FDR.