Just want to say, I am really tired of being dumped on and called

[saracat]

"republicon" if I don't adore all idols of the left at all times and do nothing but bash Democrats. I am a liberal Democrat who happes to support John Kerry , John Edwards, Wes Clark, Howard Dean and Barbara Boxer as well as Maine Waters, John Conyers and Ned Lamont. I think Joe Lieberman and Michael Moore are disgusting backstabbers and I do not appreciate either one attempting to spread division. I am a Democrat and I support the DEMOCRATIC PARTY. I do NOT always agree with everything we do but we have a proud tradition and in spite of what lurking Greenies say, we are the only alternative.We are going to win in November , and anyone who doesn't want to help make that happen should just get out of the way before they get rolled over. I am proud of my party and proud of Conn,.We are on our way back to power!

[Little Star]

1. You go girl, cause you are right on all counts!

[demdiva]

42. I agree with that whole heartedly. If this is a place where we can only

support the random candidate, what good is this place to the Party? Or to us?

[MrModerate]

2. Which "Idols of the left" have you been castigated for . . .

Adoring insufficiently? Moore and Lieberman? Seems unlikely. Just curious. Short sentences.

[WildEyedLiberal]

46. She posted a thread angry at Michael Moore's latest letter

And got flamed.

Why people are that eager to defend Michael Moore is beyond me...

[liberalhistorian]

49. What was Moore's latest letter,

I haven't heard about it yet?

[WildEyedLiberal]

50. Thread here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2767100

[LaurenG]

3. Republican? Sounds to me like you are the far left

that has been referred to recently.:sarcasm: :hide:

[Lerkfish]

4. well, at least you're not being a whacko leftist

so you got that going for you.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Der Blaue Engel]

19. I usually love Moore, but I hated his e-mail today

wherein he said no one who had "voted for the war" (repube meme, anyone? from Moore?? shameful!!), even if they were now strongly anti-war, was fit to be president: "They sided with Bush, and for that, they may never enter the promised land." And in the next breath he says "To Hillary, our first best hope for a woman to become president...I'm here to tell you that you will never make it through the Democratic primaries unless you start now by strongly opposing the war." Say what? Hillary he might give a pass to if she starts opposing the war, but those far more liberal than her don't deserve to enter the promised land even though they "got it" a long time ago? Is he on crack today, or what?

Moore's letter is not helpful, it is divisive to liberals, which is the very thing that helped Bush steal election 2000.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Der Blaue Engel]

25. I can't speak for the OP, those weren't my words

I'm just conjecturing on why she might have said that today. Backstabbing, maybe not, but he sure seems to like shooting us in the foot. :( (And as I said, I usually love him, just not when he does this stuff.)

[paulk]

36. he's not just "one man"- he's a highly successful

filmaker and author who's words have the potential to influence a lot of people.

[joeprogressive]

27. However, he may be right and giving the Democrats good advice.

Kerry lost a lot of support among moderates b/c he appeared to be waffling on his IWR vote. Anyone that voted for it is damaged goods. I'm not happy about it because I like Edwards and appreciate his sincere misgivings about his vote. However, if we want to really win, our best best lies with someone untarnished such as Feingold, Warner, Dean or Clark. Help me out if there are others.

[mitchtv]

41. Gore

[saracat]

28. Exactly.

Most of those calling me names like "Republicon" totally supported that stupid email.

[CrushTheDLC]

35. Lieberman not only voted for the war, he supported it 100%

In fact you could say he was more pro-war than the Chimpministration themselves.

Hillary's level of support for the war may or may not reach that level, but in any case, she IS a vocal supporter of the war.

And Moore acknowledged that some, such as Kerry and Edwards had changed their minds, but that he couldn't support them in a Presidential bid because they DID initially support this travesty.

Now you can dismiss that as one man's opinion if you wish, but it makes perfect sense to me. Because you have to evaluate what these Senators would do if they were in the White House with the same "evidence" the Chimp had. Kerry & Edwards both said, during the 2004 campaign that they did not regret their decision. Which means that, as President they would have done the same. It's great that they NOW see the error of their ways, but that was something that should have happenned BEFORE they became the nominees of this party (or were arguably elected)

Hillary hasn't even seen her way to that reality yet. And as a result, she does not deserve consideration as the Democratic nominee in 2008.

I'll leave it up to the citizens of New York whether she's suitable to continue in the Senate.

[beachmom]

43. Kerry NEVER supported the war. EVER.

I have studied him, his statements, his speeches, interviews, everything. He never supported the invasion of Iraq of March 2003. Why do you believe that lie?

[patrice]

45. He voted Yes on HR 114. But he has since tried to talk to us about

that vote, to reveal more about where it came from. I respect that, not quite as much as the 11 Dems who voted No, but I do respect his open-ness about it.

Hillary, on the other hand, IMO, has been completely closed and in-accessible on this issue. She talks about Bush's War, but not about her role in it.

[blm]

26. Michael Moore is the one who bought into the RW noise machine.

The IWR did NOT take this country to war - and by focusing a disproportionate amount of attention on the IWR as if it WAS the reason this country went to war, it enabled Bush to escape SCRUTINY for his violations of the IWR.

The media spun it into a vote for war when it was NOT. There were steps that had to be taken first.

Feinstein's questioning of Gonzalez a few weeks ago backed him into a corner where he ADMITTED publically that IWR did NOT give Bush war powers, something they had been spinning since the IWR vote to get the media and the public to believe it was a vote for war.

Those who insist on heaping scorn on the IWR itself and those who supported the resolution, are wrongheaded - they should have focused on Bush's VIOLATIONS of the IWR since the resolution could have PREVENTED war if it had been administered appropriately.

[AZBlue]

38. Michael Moore's main concern is the promotion of Michael Moore.

Everything else takes a far second. That said, I still agree with some of what he says. Certainly not all.

I don't know what the OP meant by backstabbing, except that maybe sometimes what he does and says actually hurts, not helps? Just my own guess.

[dbackjon]

6. AMEN!

Was your sin not worshiping at the altar of Saints Cindy, Cynthia and Hugo?

[LisaM]

7. Uhh....Michael Moore is a filmmaker, not a Democratic official

Who, exactly, do you think he's backstabbed?

[blm]

8. Michael Moore thinks every one ELSE'S mistakes hurt more than HIS MISTAKES

in the past.

He doesn't exactly have a clear conscience so he illuminates mistakes of others so he can glorify himself.

Michael Moore OMITS alot of credit for his work - how much would he have even KNOWN about what he put into 9-11 if it hadn't been for the serious investigative work of John Kerry on IranContra and BCCI?

9-11 shouldn't have even happened.

Focusing on IWR disproportionately really took alot of heat off Bush and BushInc on ALOT of issues.

[MessiahRp]

9. I don't think you're a "Republicon"

Especially since a Republicon sounds like an evil transformer... maybe on the Decepticons side. :)

You support Democrats. I don't think that makes you a Republican at all.

Michael Moore is more of a Green Party/Independent Liberal. He's not a Democrat so he's just spreading his opinion which is fine. He never claimed to be a Dem from the beginning.

Joe on the other hand did and is disgusting in his holier than thou statements. "I am doing this for my state, my party and my country"... as if him running is somehow the second coming of Jesus Christ.

Lamont and Feingold represent more of what our party represents. John Kerry, I think, was always right there but made poor political choices to try to stay afloat in 2004 and listened to one too many centrist Clinton advisors...

I don't think EVERY candidate that supports the war should be thrown out on their ear, but if they are still supporting it they deserve to have to fight a bit harder for their job. Show us that what you are doing is right by battle testing it in an election.

Rp

[tulip]

10. I'm with you

I'm sorry to hear you have been treated poorly. I hope you will stick around because we need DEMOCRATS here at DU.

[LincolnMcGrath]

11. Who is picking on you?

[Lerkfish]

14. true, if someone is picking on him/her, there is an alert button

pehaps that's a better solution than starting "oh woe is me" threads?

:shrug:

[LincolnMcGrath]

15. I'm really trying hard to find the victim here.

:shrug:

[patrice]

12. So you don't like being dumped on if you "do nothing but bash Democrats"?

That's asking a little much don't you think?

On edit: You don't like being dumped on if you don't "do nothing but bash Dems". Double negatives are confusing.

P.S. Many people come here for one reason: They enjoy hostility. They aren't necessarily Green, especially since, to my knowledge - and I do know several Greens - there isn't any such thing as Green. They're like the Libertarians, except on the Left instead of on the Right, they're a "debating society". That's all.

[saracat]

30. I am sorry. I was angry and meant to say I didn't like being dumped

on by "those" that do nothing but bash Democrats! How's that?

[patrice]

44. Sometimes I can't understand why I don't understand.

Stress probably.

Thanks for the clarification. :toast:

Don't let them make you dance to ***their*** tune. Use their language, but don't make it your language. And keep your powder dry for the important situations.

Really, for some folks it's more about the fight, any fight, than anything else. We don't want to loose them, or loose any more than absolutely necessary anyway. Folks like that have to be approached more obliquely. There are things we CAN agree and work upon together if we haven't already blown the relationship on the differences between "toe-may-toe" and "toe-mah-toe". I don't mean to preach; I taught high school seniors for 10 years, was a successful and popular teacher. There are a lot of under-developed people around so the lessons I learned generalize pretty well.

Don't let those so-called "Greens" bug you. If they do, they've got you.

[Dr Fate]

13. Hey- I AGREE with you and I'm called "far left" for liking Lamont.

Get used to it- the far right and the actual far left of the progressive spectrum have resorted to name calling in a way I've never seen before.

It is not just the greenies, it's the right-leaning Holy Joe/ C.T. Independent Party types too.

It is a bizzare thing when we get called "Far left" and "Republicon", isnt it?

All I can tell you is to hit alert every time you feel name calling is being used as an insult in place of real debate.

Maybe the mods & admin will see how these guys disrupt debate around here if enough of us keep noting these things.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Dr Fate]

21. Yes- the Independent Party members here always try to insult Democrats.

It's okay for the Independent Party to call Democratic moderates "far left" in an insulting manner, and it seems to be okay for them to put "progressive" in quotes when describing us.

It's just like when Rush Limbaugh or the media calls Hillary or Kerry "far left"- it is meaningless.

I have also noticed that posts placing the Independent party members here at DU into the right leaning wing of the progressive spectrum do tend to get deleted.

[OzarkDem]

16. I'm with you, I'm a proud Democrat first , last and always

I may not always agree with my party's candidates, but when push comes to shove, I'll still support them.

Primaries are over, its time to get to work and defeat the GOP.

And don't forget to add Sherrod Brown to your list!

[LoZoccolo]

18. You could just do like me and have 900+ people on ignore! n/t

[Lerkfish]

20. maybe that should tell you something?

:shrug: If you have to ignore 900 people, maybe they have a point.

[LincolnMcGrath]

22. Why come here at all?

That was my first thought

[Lerkfish]

24. beats me. I guess to bring catapults?

I have no idea. If I was at a site where I had to ignore 900 people, I'd find a site more suited to me. But hey, that's just me.

[LoZoccolo]

32. This is somewhat my DU mission statement.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=1831676#1832352

[Symphony of Freedom]

29. Then...

Stop bashing gays and appearing on the 700 Club and maybe the left will treat your party with more respect.

[Dr Fate]

31. Maybe you all could team up with the New C.T. Independent Party.

You could do more damage to Democrats if you not only team up with the GOP & media in slandering & misrepresenting DEMS, but if you team up with Lieberman's new Independent party as well.

We already have 3 groups attacking DEMS- Greens, The GOP & the Media- you guys should make it 4 by inviting Lieberman's new party too.

Let us know how it works out.

[saracat]

34. That is hilarious Dr. Fate!

What a great comeback!

[saracat]

33. The left are supposed to "be" our party. I am one of the left.

and what the heck are you talking about anyway?

[AZBlue]

37. *standing ovation*

:applause: :woohoo: :applause: :yourock:

[AtomicKitten]

39. WOOT!!!!

[mitchtv]

40. I am about the same

ewcept the M Moore crack. I like him too. We have to watch these lieberman lover senators like Salazar, however .

[Generic Brad]

47. You sound more like one of them "Democrat Insurgents" to me

And I consider that a good thing. :dem:

[w4rma]

48. You've always sounded like a Democrat to me, for what its worth. (nt)

[The Wolf]

51. I'm totally with you as well cat

As a Greenie, although I'd love to see this country embrace 3rd parties, I know the chances happening anytime soon are about as slim as Joe Lieberman's charisma and camera presence. I'll support any move toward that. In the meantime, I'll support anyone who speaks for my beliefs and can make this country the shining beacon it once was. I'll take voting for Jack Carter in the Senate and Jill Derby in the Congress if it means that type of progressive change can begin to take place. Like I said on an earlier post, I won't "sell my soul to get on a fucking ballot!" Others in my party will and have, but I'm not.

[proud patriot]

52. I'm locking this thread

Continuation of a flamewar from elsewhere .

proud patriot Moderator
Democratic Underground