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The Intolerant Left Myth: Lieberman, Chafee and Ben Nelson

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rpannier Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:09 AM
Original message
The Intolerant Left Myth: Lieberman, Chafee and Ben Nelson
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 04:44 AM by rpannier
If I understand the line of reasoning correctly: There is a Jihad against independent moderate candidates being waged by extreme figures and groups within their party -- a purging if you will. The 'pundits' point to Lieberman (D-CT) and Chafee (R-RI) to make their point. Both are viewed as moderates who are under attack by fringe groups.

Last night Joe Lieberman was 'purged' by the 'bloggers' 'the Daily Kos' 'MoveON.Org' and the like for crimes akin to 'political heresy'. The next victim is possibly Republican Senator Lincoln Chafee of Rhode Island. Chafee is viewed as a moderate Senator who breaks with the Party on some votes.

On the surface, this analogy would seem fairly accurate -- if you only view it on the surface. The fact is the situations do not even come close to mirroring each other.

Lincoln Chafee is a Republican Senator in a Democratic state. His voting record, on most issues, is moderate. Often he votes with his Party on legislation, but at times he breaks with his Party. There has been very little dissatisfaction among many people in RI over the job he has done. Chafee is seldom out in the public eye on major issues, preferring to hold one-on-one private encounters with Senators, rather than stepping in front of the cameras to highlight his positions -- especially when they conflict with his Party.

The 'grass roots' organization against Chafee is being lead by people who think that Chafee doesn't vote conservative enough, that he betrays the Party with his voting record. They want a Senator that mirrors the voting records of Sens Brownback and Santorum as their choice.
In polls, the voters in RI have made it clear that if Chafee is not the Senate candidate of the Republican Party, they will vote for his Democratic opponent, thus giving the seat to the Democrats.

This scenario did not exist in CT. The Democratic voters, and others, were dissatisfied that Lieberman seemed to be moving away from what people in CT wanted. His 'independence' came at the expense of what his constituents wanted. Lieberman has at times openly criticized his Democratic colleagues in the Senate for their open criticisms of President Bush. Lieberman has, on at least one occasion been the opening spokesman for the Republicans on a bill before the Senate.

In addition, whether Lieberman or Lamont won was made irrelevant by the fact that CT voters would have voted for either candidate in large numbers, as long as it was a heads up two-man race. In other words, without Lieberman on the November ballot Lamont is a shoo-in to get elected to the Senate. Lieberman is NOT necessary to the Party holding on to that Senate seat. Chafee is for the Republicans.

A better comparison is Ben Nelson of Nebraska and Chafee of Rhode Island. Nelson is a moderate/conservative Democratic Senator in a Republican state. Nelson votes the will of the majority of Nebraskans and is rather popular with most of the people in that state, whether they're a Republican or Democrat.

If the left was really on a Jihad, he would have been their target, not Joe Lieberman, as Nelson has the most conservative voting record of all Democrats in the Senate.

Why has there been no attempt by Daily Kos, MoveON.Org, Majority.Com, the bloggers, etc to purge the Party of Nelson?

Most likely it is that the 'loonies on the left' as O'Reilly, Gibson, Hannity, etc often refer to them, realize and accept that Senators like Ben Nelson, Bill Nelson, Blanche Lincoln and Mary Landrieux are popular Senators who hold their seats because they are responsive to the voters of the states they represent. That even though the 'Democratic-left" doesn't approve of their voting records on some issues, they are pragmatic enough to realize that a guy like Lamont would never get the nomination in Nebraska, and if he did, he'd never get elected.

The Republicans on the other hand, would sooner give up the seat to the opposition, than have an 'apostate' holding that seat.

Now, who's the intolerant one again?
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:17 AM
Response to Original message
1. Nice post. Don't ruin it by leaving out paragraph breaks n/t
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tkmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. Exactly right
Edit this to make it more readable. Your logic is impeccable and I believe you have nailed this issue down. More people need to read this.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:53 AM
Response to Original message
3. ttt !!
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:00 AM
Response to Original message
4. pleased to "5" this. . . . . n/t
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:03 AM
Response to Original message
5. The biggest problem with your analysis of Nebraska is that you
forgot to mention that in Nebraska we don't really have a democratic party. We have something that calls itself democratic but its led by an attorney that practices corporate law and is supported by some very petty and mean spirited people who just think calling themselves democrats makes them feel like their rebels for their cause, whatever that may be.

This WAS a solidly democratic state until Lyndon Johnson and civil rights came up. And Lordy, when EQUAL RIGHTS became an issue these people switched party because women and minorities have no right to expect to be treated or thought of as these small minded bigots.

Ben Nelson has a horrible voting record. On any important issue he will take the bush** administration's side. It is a pretty piss poor state of affairs when we have two republican senators in this state, but in order to stay in office one calls himself a democrat. The political hypocrisy here is mind boggling.
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:17 AM
Response to Original message
6. A very nice piece of work
Good for you!

:thumbsup: :hi:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 05:43 AM
Response to Original message
7. Not a myth at all....
If you want to pretend it is, you ought to at least wait until the latest tedious round of "let's have a party purge" calls have slipped off the front page.

"Why has there been no attempt by Daily Kos, MoveON.Org, Majority.Com, the bloggers, etc to purge the Party of Nelson? "
Because nobody in Nebraska gives two shits about the fringe left, silly. It worked in Connecticut because you have a small state with a small Democratic party, and the extreme left ran a swift boat campaign. (Worth noting that Lamont's sup[port came from well to do whites, the poor and the working people backed Lieberman.)
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TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:26 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. Well
Connecticut has a larger population than Nebraska.

Lieberman wasn't "swift-boated" - he was the most open supporter of the Iraq War and Bush's foreign policy in the Democratic Party. And that's support cost him the election.

We don't know which class supported whom without exit polls. I haven't seen any. Many of those small town voters who supported Lamont aren't exactly rich, so I'm not sure your analysis holds up. New Haven and Hartford both went for Lamont and the vote in Bridgeport was pretty close.
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 06:31 AM
Response to Reply #10
20. Lieberman was swift boated
The entire campaign against him was built on character assassination.

"We don't know which class supported whom without exit polls."
Some of us do....AmericaBlog, for one....

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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-10-06 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #7
19. It couldn't possibly be that the people of Connectic want the war stopped?
Are you ready to do the right thing and endorse Lamont?

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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
8. "Moderate" mass murderers, torturers, war criminals, looters of the
public treasury for unjust war and tax cuts for the rich, destroyers of the Constitution, promoters of global corporate predators, anti-unionists, panderers to rightwing religious extremists, traitors who have sold our right to vote to Bushite corporations?

Most people in this country opposed Bush's war on Iraq FROM THE BEGINNING (56%, Feb. '03).
Today, a huge majority in this country opposes Bush's war on Iraq and any U.S. participation in a widened Mideast war (70%-80%).
90% of the people in this country are concerned or very concerned about the budget deficit (which has been incurred by the Iraq war and tax cuts for the rich).
A large majority of the people in this country oppose torture "under any circumstances" (63%, May '04).
Most of the people in this country are working people, with fewer and fewer of them having a living wage or benefits, due to rightwing union-busting.
Most of the people in this country are tolerant and progressive, favor women's rights and equality, and favor strong environmental protections, strong regulation of industry, and strong worker protections.
A huge majority of people in this country would favor TRANSPARENT vote counting, if asked, and would oppose "trade secret," proprietary vote counting by partisan electronic voting corporations, if they only knew about it.

So, WHO are the moderates? Where is the "middle" of the political spectrum?

We really have to start defining the political spectrum OURSELVES. And, on a REAL political spectrum--one that reflects what most Americans really believe, not the delusions and rightwing impositions that the war profiteering corporate news monopolies are trying to sell--quite a number of Democrats would be far to the right and way out of the real mainstream. And when you figure that the great majority of these are, a) (s)elected by Diebold and ES&S, two rightwing Bushite electronic voting corporations, using "trade secret," proprietary programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls; and b) are also heavily influenced by the moneyed class and the corporate rulers, in a filthy, money-drenched political system--you begin to understand how they can be holding office in the teeth of mainstream American opinion.

Ned Lamont's primary win and the "leftist" blog phenomenon are NOT a "jihad" in the sense that the war profiteering corporate news monopolies and the far right use that word. They are the beginning of an adjustment of the political spectrum that more realistically reflects mainstream opinion. In a real--as opposed to illusionary--political environment, and one with transparent elections, Senators like those mentioned above in most cases would not survive.

We also need to reject the terms of the very fascist-leaning, war profiteering corporate news monopolies. In Islam, for instance, the word "jihad" has a similar meaning to the Native American concept of "warrior." It means taking personal responsibility for yourself, your community and your concept of what is right and just. It means self-discipline, self-sacrifice and maturity--or, as Jung would put, individuation. A "warrior" might use violence if other paths to justice are blocked off. It is not undertaken lightly, and is as subject to wrong-headed, or egocentric, thinking as any other mode of life. A Palestinian who straps a bomb to himself and goes and blows up Israeli civilians has obviously gone off the deep end. A Native American warrior who kills women and children has gone berserk. The cause might be just in both cases, but the warrior or jihadist is stuck in a egocentric mode and cannot see the greater good of the community or the poisonous effect of further injustice.

Jihad and warrior are also comparable to the Christian idea of sainthood. And there are any number of saints who have gone off the deep end. (Saint Cyril of Alexandria comes to mind--a vile man who thought he was doing right by having his followers kill the famous Alexandrian philosopher Hypatia, by skinning her alive.)

Jihadists, warriors and saints can all go bad. But most often they do not. All three concepts merely mean strength--whether spiritual or physical. Gandhi was a warrior, a jihadist and a saint. So was Martin Luther King. So are many a self-sacrificing and visionary individual.

If we think of "leftist" bloggers as warriors or saints--putting this rightwing use of the word "jihad" aside--we would be closer to what they really are: people who are self-sacrificing and visionary; people who seek justice; people who have individuated in a political mode and are acting for the greater good of the community.

The American community is not well. Its leaders are on a Dark Path, gone way wrong in the directions of murder, torture and greed. The warriors and saints of the "leftist" blogging community are trying to put things right.

"Saint" seems faintly ridiculous in a political context. But I think that I have actually encountered a couple of personalities here at DU for whom the term is not inappropriate. Warrior is more common, though. Jihad unfortunately has come to mean religious extremist, or someone in a mad, "scorched earth" state of mind. There is none of that here, except when rightwing trolls or other fanatics invade. They are very untypical of DU or of any of the "leftist" blogs, and stick out like sore thumbs.
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 06:08 AM
Response to Original message
9. nice work.
underlining once again my belief there are no moderates.

moderates in this current political culture support extreme right wing positions -- that's what they ''moderate'' on.

not left wing positions -- right wing.

from the environment to the war -- the extreme right wing wins almost every time because of the virtual lack of left-wing positions in politics.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:07 AM
Response to Original message
11. Reply to MrBenchley...
MrBenchley (1000+ posts) 
Wed Aug-09-06 03:43 AM
Response to Original message

7. Not a myth at all....

If you want to pretend it is, you ought to at least wait until the latest tedious round of "let's have a party purge" calls have slipped off the front page.

"Why has there been no attempt by Daily Kos, MoveON.Org, Majority.Com, the bloggers, etc to purge the Party of Nelson? "
Because nobody in Nebraska gives two shits about the fringe left, silly. It worked in Connecticut because you have a small state with a small Democratic party, and the extreme left ran a swift boat campaign. (Worth noting that Lamont's sup
-----------------------------------------

The "fringe left" is actually the middle. Over 70% of Americans oppose Bush's war on Iraq, and over 80% oppose U.S. participation in a widened war. 60% to 65% disapprove of Bush--and the numbers on every one of his policies, foreign and domestic are similar. Anyone who sides with Bush is on the fringe of American opinion. Any votes for Bush policy are fringe votes--and multiple votes for Bush policy constitute an extreme divergence from mainstream opinion.

It is only by means of non-transparent vote counting and other forms of corruption that Congress is so extremely at variance with mainstream opinion.

If "leftist" bloggers express glee at Lieberman's demise within the Democratic Party, and want to utilize their new-found power to "purge" other politicians who are failing to represent the interests of the American people, it is only right and just. The true mainstream has been too long without a voice, and without its rightful power as the majority. It is a badly needed adjustment in American politics. And there is certainly some of this feeling at DU. I share it. I would like to see all the "Liebermans" thrown out of office. But you have point that the OP is wrong about this (about the "left" actually being on a "jihad").

That error comes from adopting the terms of debate dictated by the war profiteering corporate news monopolies, and also used by wrongly described Democratic Party "centrists" (who are nowhere near the "center" but are way off to the right). They are using the word "jihad" to associate leftist/antiwar views with terrorists. (Who's doing the "swiftboating" here?) The OP reacts defensively--adopting the view that such a "jihad" would be bad. But it is only bad if you put the word "jihad" on it. Extremist. Fanatic. It is NOT in the least extremist or fanatical to want the Democratic Party to begin representing the majority of Americans, and to work toward that end!

My Dad was born in Nebraska, and I have spent considerable time in that region (Nebraska, Iowa and Minnesota). What I found there were very progressive, tolerant and liberal people, mostly of Scandinavian extraction, who have an abiding, "salt of the earth" belief in justice and fairness. The political foundation of the region is the radical socialist farmers' movement of the 1930s and the highly progressive, pro-union politics of people like Hubert Humphrey. I wonder if these folks are being adequately represented in Congress. I suspect not. I suspect that the War/Corporate Democrats have betrayed them as well. I disagree that "a guy like Lamont would never get the nomination in Nebraska." In fair elections, I think he would. Nebraska does not have fair elections. Candidates in primaries and general elections are (s)elected by ES&S, using "trade secret," proprietary programming code, with virtually no audit/recount controls.

ES&S is a spinoff of Diebold (similar computer architecture), initially funded by rightwing billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalcedon Foundation, which touts the death penalty for homosexuals (among other things). Diebold and ES&S have an incestuous relationship--they are run by two brothers, Bob and Todd Urosevich. Diebold, until recently, was headed by CEO Wally O'Dell, a Bush-Cheney campaign chair and major fundraiser (a Bush "Pioneer" up there with Ken Lay) who promised in writing to "deliver Ohio's electoral votes to Bush/Cheney in 2004." Both Diebold and ES&S optiscan and touchscreen voting systems have been found, by many experts, to be extremely insecure, unreliable and insider-hackable.*

No politicians "elected" under a veil of corporate secrecy, in voting systems controlled by rightwing corporations, can be considered legitimate representatives of the people. Their "elections" are clouded in obscurity.

--------------------------

*(--and election officials who continue to tout the use of these extremely riggable machines have been irredeemably corrupted by the Diebold/ES&S culture of secrecy, and by their lavish lobbying, which included, for instance, a week of fun, sun and high end shopping at the Beverly Hilton last summer, sponsored by Diebold, ES&S and a third Republican player, Sequoia. This would be a good question to ask Nebraska election officials: where were you last August?)
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Benhurst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
12. Recommended: #10
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:11 AM
Response to Original message
13. Ben Nelson ( DINO) of Nebraska is next!
;)

Nice post!
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 07:15 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. No he's not
and it's fucking ludicrous to suggest it. Ben Nelson enjoys the highest popularity of any Senator (within Nebraska over 70% of the voters approve of the job he's doing.) I mean really, how hard is it to figure out that Nebraska ain't CT, and that we're lucky to have a dem Senator from the reddest of red states? He caucuses with the dems, so even if he is a conservative dem, he still votes for who leads the dem party in the Senate.
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Breeze54 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. I can't stand him
Edited on Wed Aug-09-06 08:56 AM by Breeze54
and he should go, imho!
If he isn't next? He should be!
I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm not alone!
There are many who can't stand him!
It's "ludicrous" to tell me I'm ludicrous!
It's my opinion.
:grr:
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krkaufman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Exactly. We *are* supposed to be members of the reality-based community
And proper prioritization of goals and allocation of resources are good measures of one's link to the real world.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. DU is about as reality based
at times, as Wonderland.
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Danascot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-09-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. There was an opinion piece (
on HuffPo?) recently that went something like: You're not a moderate if you're somewhere between a center/right democrat and a far right Republican; You're still right wing.
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