8 months ago today in San Antonio....the world nearly came to an end.

[madfloridian]

Howard Dean gave an interview at WOAI there, and it was picked up around the world over 200,000 times by the next day.

The whole country called him everything from A to Z. His fellow Democrats met behind closed doors to figure out what to do with him.

Several others were saying the same thing, Murtha for one. But the world caved in on Dean for that interview.

I've seen this before in my life. This is the same situation we had in Vietnam. Everybody then kept saying, 'just another year, just stay the course, we'll have a victory.' Well, we didn't have a victory, and this policy cost the lives of an additional 25,000 troops because we were too stubborn to recognize what was happening."

He then proceeded to lay out a plan just about like the Democrats are urging today. I heard generals on TV this week saying Iraq is erupting into civil way, or likely to do so.

He was right, and he just kept doing what he had to do. It has just been 8 months today for people to start coming around in public to the position he laid out.

On this page is the complete interview in audio, a video of the station reporters talking about the uproar. And a partial transcript.

http://www.woai.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=C36A87B9-63A0-4CDE-AA91-B41571AFD3AF

Some more of what he said:

"The White House wants us to have a permanent commitment to Iraq. This is an Iraqi problem. President Bush got rid of Saddam Hussein and that was a great thing, but that could have been done in a very different way. But now that we're there we need to figure out how to leave. 80% of Iraqis want us to leave, and it's their country."

Dean also compared the controversy over pre-war intelligence to the Watergate scandal which brought down Richard Nixon's presidency in 1974.

"What we see today is very much like what was going in Watergate," Dean said. "It turns out there is a lot of good evidence that President Bush did not tell the truth when he was asking Congress for the power to go to war. The President said last week that Congress saw the same intelligence that he did in making the decision to go to war, and that is flat out wrong. The President withheld some intelligence from the Senate Intelligence Committee. He withheld the report from the CIA that in fact there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction (in Iraq), that they did not have a nuclear program. They (the White House) selectively gave intelligence to the United States Senate and the United States Congress and got them to give the go ahead to attack these people."

Here is the complete transcript.
http://www.seixon.com/blog/mt-tb.cgi/105.1310412593

I saw a write-up at Media Matters tonight about how we need to be on guard for their attacks on us.

http://mediamatters.org/items/200608050003

Here are the words they say to guard against. We are already using them again each other.

"Progressives -- particularly anti-war progressives -- are "fringe" and "extreme";

Progressives are angry and vitriolic.

Democrats are weak -- and politically vulnerable -- on national security."

[AlGore-08.com]

1. 3 years, 10 months and 12 days ago, Gore warned us against invading Iraq

And he was ridiculed by the media for it...

http://www.algore.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=48&Itemid=84

[madfloridian]

2. That was a good statement.

I remember in those days they were vicious toward anyone who disagreed.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

5. when US media attacks, it shows someone isn't owned by BIG Business...

Gore and Dean are two good examples of people still serving our country and citizens. If media begins to talk nice about someone, it shows that big business owns them.

[Clark2008]

16. 3 years, 11 months and 21 days ago, Clark warned us against

invading in Iraq.

http://www.house.gov/hasc/openingstatementsandpressreleases/107thcongress/02-09-26clark.html

And was ignored by the Congress.

[madfloridian]

18. I did not post this to have a contest of who said what first.

I am posting it because for days and days, the Democrats, the media, the right wing bloggers just kept on in a crazy way. Yet there is not a single thing wrong he said. Nothing.

No one in the party stood by or supported, but now they are all coming on board.

I could probably find one by Dean earlier than that, but then that is getting childish.

It is pretty clear that posts about Dean are considered threats, and must be diminished. And now there is no one here to do defend.

[IndyOp]

29. Thanks for posting this about Howard. I don't see the posts about Gore

or Clark as being competitive - maybe they were - I just find it encouraging to be reminded that Democratic Party leaders have been speaking out against the war & occupation - consistently.

:kick:

[madfloridian]

44. I did respond favorably to the post about Gore.

I responded favorably to it. I had no gripe with it. Things have transpired this week that have colored the thinking I have toward some others.

This was about how our country nearly stopped functioning that week because someone said we could not win in Iraq. I see only one sentence in the last half of my OP that could indicate that I was even implying that others were not speaking out...and it could be taken two ways.

I thought it was time to mention it on the exact day 8 months later. That was all that was meant.

[Sopianae]

30. You made it sound as if Dean was the only one who opposed the war.

Of course, people will remind you that's not the case. Dean was right, but so were several other Dems. Dean is a great guy, I admire everything he has done, but he is NOT THE ONLY Dem to stand up for us and speak up against the war.

[madfloridian]

32. No, the others don't get attacked like that. That is my point.

This was one of the worst media blitzes ever against him, Republicans mostly, but a few Democrats. They nearly kicked him out of the party.

Yet every word he said was true.

NOWHERE is that post does it says he was the only one. There is so much jealously among people here for 08 that it is almost impoosible for me to post here anymore without getting my ass kicked.

Dean is no threat to any 08 candidates.

My post is no threat to anyone.

Now it is common knowledge on the TV, the very things he said. Yet he was called into closed party session. It is getting very tiring to have to defend myself when I post something that is right and not offensive.

It is jeaslousy rearing its head, and he is not even a candidate and won't be.

I was appalled that he was nearly driven from the party over this, yet every word was true.

[Sopianae]

35. That's just it. You don't have to defend yourself all the time.

You wrote a post about Dean speaking up on Iraq 8 months ago (you stressed the 8 months) and getting unfairly treated by the media. Others chimed in saying some other Dem's spoke up on the issue much earlier. SO what?! NO need to get defensive. Good for them - would be a nice reply. People will push your buttons if you jump every time.

And yes, others get attacked, too. Dean is not the only one who has to take crap from the media. The whole right wing media called Clark crazy and a "conspiracy theorist" after he started speaking out about PNAC. He was so right. They destroyed Kerry with the Swift Boat liars. He would have won without the media repeating those lies about him over and over again (Kerry didn't fight back as hard as he should have but that's another matter). Ted Kennedy is a punching bag, and the list goes on...

[madfloridian]

36. BUT that is who I choose to post about. I can't post about all of them.

Why does it bother you so much that I put up a post saying they called Dean into private Dem conference to rip him to shreds when everything he said was right.

And no, that kind of thing does not happen to everyone else.

Why are you so upset? Did I attack the others at all? Did I say anything wrong about them at all?

And yes, I do have to defend myself. They have run so many others off this site, you have no idea.

You don't survive here if you supported Dean without being tough. Most just left, and I am staying. There is no one left here to come into a thread and take up for what I say.

If you don't like what I say, just don't pay me any attention.

[Sopianae]

37. Hm... Who is upset?

Your OP didn't bother me at all. I only commented on your overreaction to some of the replies.

If you don't like what I say, just don't pay me any attention. - The best advice you can give yourself.

Btw, I don't post much but I have been around for years. Some (not all) of the people who left were the most vicious posters on this site. My hart is not bleeding for them.

[madfloridian]

38. Don't use the overreaction on me.

This thread got so bad it has two deleted subthreads. I think there is a lot of the pot calling the kettle black here.

I am very sure I know what is going on. It is just like it was in 03 and 04, and that is so sad. We have not moved beyond those years at all

I have been called everything here, and it just does not touch me anymore. Some of the people who are now gone were some of the most intelligent and kind people you can imagine.

I can't say anymore on this, or this post will be gone.

You are saying you expect me to include all the others who spoke against the war...when it really is not about that at all. It was about the way the media and the party blasted someone who was right. I am so sorry that does not concern you.

The mindset here is for 08, nothing more. Dean is not running, and it should not matter if I post about him. Should it?

And don't say I am paranoid, that has been way way way overused.

[Sopianae]

40. LOL!

Don't use the overreaction on me. < exhibit A of overreaction.

Have a good night!

[madfloridian]

43. No, actually, exhibit a is a post this week on another thread...

which sort of gave things aways. But I don't post stuff like that even to make a point.

Laugh all you want, it just does not matter any more. What I posted in the OP is correct. It was correct when Dean said it back in December, it is correct today...yet he was blasted.

That was the point. If you choose to make the point about me, ok.

[Vidar]

3. Howard is a treasure. Thanks for posting.

[quiet.american]

4. Thanks for the reminder! n/t

[napi21]

6. I wonder if the day will ever come when most accept Dean as a

straight forward speaking honest man?????

More do today than right after the media killed him over the "Dean Scream", but there ae still so many who think he's just another politician. It makes me sad.

[Auntie Bush]

31. I hadn't noticed that. I think he is very well respected here.

Regarding-- "there are still so many who think he's just another politician. It makes me sad."

[napi21]

33. Oh, pay closer attention. There have been lots of posts about

people not being happy because he isn't focusing as much as they want on evoting, or calling Shrub an outright lier, or whatever other pet issue exists at the time. Nothing is ever enough, and some expect one man to do it all!

[farmbo]

7. Sometimes the GOP's manufactured outrage even scares Democrats...

The louder they scream, the closer we are to the truth.

Thanks Howard...and thanks for this reminder of his true political courage.

[madfloridian]

28. That is a very true statement about their manufactured outrage.

They just keep making fools of themselves and they don't even know it.

I think a lot of Democrats are catching on though.

[Uncle Joe]

8. Thanks for posting madfloridian

Kicked and recommended

:kick:

[mopinko]

9. we have got to learn to detect the smell of bullshit.

we really do. maybe du could give us more options than just ignore. like flags that we could give to posters, like- shill, whore, bs spreader. so we could read what they say, but remind ourselves who they are.
maybe they could keep track of what members think, and maybe more of these paid troublemakers could get the stone.

[OzarkDem]

10. I'm beginning to sound like a broken record

when I keep saying "Thank you, Dr. Dean". :woohoo:

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[madfloridian]

12. And so this is how it is done. This ugliness is NOT accidental.

I post something logical and sensible, and it is turned into something ugly. Then people don't want to post for fear of being attacked.

This is not just an accident, not just coincidental, it is meant to intimidate.

And it does. I can either back off the thread, or be on my own except for one or two.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrBenchley]

15. You posted a pile of hooey

and you're sore because it's been exposed as such.

Say, floridian, why don't you explain why this silly thread was put up in the first place?

[madfloridian]

17. It was put up because all the outrage about Iraq came up this week on TV

And it hit me that it was 8 months since they nearly destroyed a man who was saying the same thing.

[MrBenchley]

19. Ah, the relentless honesty of the far left....

"I am going to look for all the outraged comments against what he said. I am going to make a post just for you.
The DLC has made this party afraid to speak afraid to think afraid to take risks....and that has nearly killed us off.
I will dedicate the post to you. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2758193&mesg_id=2758665

[madfloridian]

20. Thanks, I do dedicate it to you.

I had the post started at that point. And I had been thinking since the hearings on the hill about how Bob Kerrey, Ford, other Democrats had totally demolished him in the press for this remark....all while watching the hearing with Rummy. And there was NOTHING wrong with what he said....nothing.

I am sorry you have such contempt for everyone you call a lefty, or loony, or nutroots...I don't understand why. Oh, that is Bull Moose's word, isn't it.

But that is your problem, not mine.

And why don't you find some more threads of mine and post a thread to show them? I have a lot of them in my journal, and I also have a lot there about what the DLC has done and still is doing to harm the party while saying they are acting like the party's big boys.

[MrBenchley]

21. Nutroots is such a perfectly appropriate word

Thanks for the illustration.....

[madfloridian]

22. But I did not post the outraged comments against him.

I decided that was counter productive. The media did enough of that.

This is kind of sad.

[MrBenchley]

23. What about your threads isn't sad, floridian?

[madfloridian]

24. I am going to say the obvious.

I was not going to, but I will.

The DLC still has the money, the big guns, and lots of power. But they are feeling threatened because they are being challenged.

I assume you speak for them, you seem to do so. Sometimes you would do better to use more care.

Vilsack is trying to get to get a more moderate tone to the rhetoric there at the DLC, and I do appreciate that. But some can not let up.

You may feel free to post what you like to me, I have no sensitivity left anymore. I could not do what I need to do if I did.

[MrBenchley]

42. No, all you did was say the silly.....

"I assume you speak for them, you seem to do so."
No, all I do is point out how full of crap most of the anti-DLCers here are. Which they are.

[Fleshdancer]

25. The only thing sad about this thread is the personal attacks

Wouldn't it be easier to just put the OP on ignore if you find his/her so "sad"? Why the hostility?

[MrBenchley]

41. LOL! So tell us, was Dean bribed? Or threatened?

You tell us, since you seem to think her threads are such hot shit.....

[madfloridian]

13. Better link to complete transcript. The other one isn't working.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/7/103721/583

This is one I had from earlier. I have not been able to get to Daily Kos since late last night, so I hope it works.

I had saved a couple of the comments from that post:

From the diarist;

"Sorry if I'm late to the party on this, but I've seen a few diaries already bemoaning Howard Dean's comments on some San Antonio morning show yesterday. I've also noticed the coordinated piling on of the noise machine on what appears to be a fiery new statement from him.. that we can't "win" the war in Iraq. The cacophony from the right has reached enough of a fever pitch that the top Google searches now for "Dean Iraq" yield a page of stories from all our favorite nemeses and more.. with headlines like

"Dean Iraq is Vietnam: Let's cut and Run" (courtesy Rush Limbaugh)

MarkinNC's diary :: ::
"Dean digs Dems a hole" (courtesy NY Daily News)

"Howard Dean, defeatist" (courtesy NY Post)"

And another comment from the interview, where Dean corrected them on Murtha's remarks:

"WOAI: Is congressman's John Murtha's demand that all US troops be withdrawn from Iraq, is that in the mainstream of democratic party philosophy now?

Dean: Well he actually didn't demand that at all, he didn't even use the word withdrawal and I don't use the word withdrawal either. I think we need a strategic re-deployment over a period of 2 years. What John was basing his discussion on was a report by Lawrence Korb who's actually a defense department official with the Reagan Administration. He has a way of getting out of Iraq which I think makes a lot of sense and I think the Democrats will coalesce around it. Basically he says bring the 80,000 guardsmen home. They don't belong in a conflict like this anyway..".

[dave123williams]

26. Weak on national security? What folderol.

I'm seeing the biggest failure in the history of US foreign policy on THEIR watch, idiotic wars without any justification beyond greed, the complete erosion of our standing in the world, all on THEIR watch.

Their rhetoric rings hollow, and everybody knows it. Their leadership are a bunch of moralizing criminals, and it's time they were sent home.

[madfloridian]

27. Now that I totally agree with.

:hi:

Their nerve is unbelievable.

[madfloridian]

34. Let me make one thing clear...this is about an attack that was wrong.

I did NOT imply that others were not speaking out, they were by then.

SO ask yourself, why did they go after him so viciously?

Don't kid yourself, they will do it again in 08 to whomever.

Good lord, I pointed out that what he said was right, and others are now saying it on TV. I do know that some were already saying it then, but good lord I did not think I had to point it out. I know Kerry was and Murtha was. I knew Edwards had spoken out, but not as clearly as this week about leaving.

This is ridiculous that I have to defend myself like this all the time. I do not attack others, I don't offend. This place has way too much anger.

Dean was right, they nearly brought him down in December. But now they are saying the same things. Deja vu all over again.

[Jacobin]

39. Dean also said 'the world is NOT a safer place with Saddam gone'

After Saddam was captured.

Lieberman squealed and screamed, Kerry huffed and puffed and, all the 'right thinking' dems distanced themselves from him, thinking that the insurgency would die away since Saddam was caught.

I think Howard Dean is a remarkable man and would have (and still would) make a wonderful president

[AtomicKitten]

45. Dear Mr. Benchley:

I don't think I can read another one of your caustic attacks on madfloridian without comment.

It's okay, you know, to have a difference of opinion. It doesn't make one bereft of thought and reason.

For crissakes she is not only entitled to her opinion, but she always articulates it thoughtfully and respectfully.

For once it would be nice if you would show her that same courtesy.

Please take that under advisement.

AK