What we're up against, and why it's worse than you probably think

[Ian David]

So, today I was in the sauna at the gym, and I struck-up a conversation with the guy next to me.

We started with the weather, "Hey, it's really hot outside. It's a relief to get into a nice, cool sauna."

Then we started talking about our family trip to Myrtle Beach, SC, how much fun we had, etc.

I guess once he realized I was married with a wife and daughter, he decided to open-up a bit about the sick, scary world he lives in.

I'll change a few details of our conversation, because the guy told me enough information that I could identify him if I wanted to. But I'm not out to invade his privacy-- just to illustrate what people like him are like.

He was telling me that he has a 16 year-old daughter who's an accomplished actress and has had her own screenplay performed. But he wanted to make sure she had another career, besides acting, to fall back on.

I said that Emerson College is really good for that sort of thing.

He then went into this thing about, "Well, you know that 50% of the women at Emerson are lesbians."

According to him, at Emerson College, if you aren't a lesbian, you can't be part of "The In Crowd." He told me he wouldn't want his daughter exposed to that sort of thing, especially since at Emerson, you're "coerced into lesbianism."

Instead, he was thinking maybe Wheelock College, Or New York University would be better for his (presumably) innocent, heterosexual daughter.

Stay with me here, this gets worse.

The guy has also has a son, who went to a design school. "He's a big, manly body-builder too, just so you know," the old guy says. "It cost me over $2,000 to get him out of that school. He says to me, 'Dad, I've only been here three days, but if one more guy propositions me, I don't know what I'm going to do.'"

So, afraid of getting homosexual advances, Dad took his son out of Graphic Design College after only three days, and forfeited his $2,000 deposit.

That's when I decided to say, "Well, it's obvious where he gets his bigotry from. It's been nice talking to you." And then I left, without looking back.

Folks, what we're up against is worse than many of you may think.

We're talking about people whose bigotry and homophobia run so deep, they not only want to hurt others, but they're willing to hurt themselves and their own families.

These people are willing to shut-down suicide hotlines that help both gay and straight children, just because suicide counselors tell people they don't have to hate themselves for being gay.

These people are willing to hobble the lives and careers of their own children in order to convince themselves that they're somehow keeping their kids from being "coerced into lesbianism."

We ask ourselves, "How can those people vote against their own best-interests just to keep gay people from getting married?"

This is why.

This guy is willing to lose $2,000 because his body-builder son is skeeved-out by being around too many gay men at a graphic design college. This guy is willing to make career and life-altering decisions based upon his need to hate people different from him.

I see now why they call it Homophobia-- an irrational fear of homosexuals.

These are the people who would fire their best salesman if they thought he was gay.

These people are willing to act against their own self-interest out of an irrational fear-- thus behaving irrationally.

Not only do they want to hurt you, but they're willing to hurt themselves.

They're willing to pay $4.00 a gallon for gasoline if gays can't get married.

They're willing to watch all their jobs get shipped over-seas if gays can't get married.

They're willing to pay money into the Medicare donut hole if gays can't get married.

They're willing to stand on their rooftops amid the flood waters of a drowning city, resolutely determined that gays can't get married.

They will waste $2,000 and sabotage the academic futures and the careers of their own children out of their irrational hatred and fear of gay people.

It's a lazy sort of Armchair Martyrdom that they're engaging in, and the sad thing is that they're destroying the country, along with their own sad, nasty small-minded little lives.

PS: Hey, Sauna Guy: I just checked, and guess what? Wheelock College has a "Queer Co-op." The lesbians await your daughter! Muhahah! http://tinyurl.com/gfbmd

Also cross-posted in the GLBT Forum:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=221&topic_id=39175&mesg_id=39175

[villager]

1. wait 'til his body-building designer son comes out to him...

I'm sure those three days of propositions weren't "accidents..."

[regnaD kciN]

7. And if/when that happens...

...you can bet he'll blame the whole thing on those three days at Graphic Design College. ("My son was normal until those homosexualists there converted him to their lifestyle!") :eyes:

[Ian David]

10. A guy who likes to hang around in gyms and make pretty pictures...

Is there room in The Village People for a guy with a protractor?

[kenny blankenship]

2. This guy's son calls him "Grandpa"?

Obviously there's a lot of confusion in this family. (She's my sister. *whack* She's my daughter. She's my sister-she's my daughter!)

[Ian David]

9. Sorry, I made a typo. Shouldn't be grandpa. I'll go fix it.

I'm not going to say whether I changed Dad to Grandpa or Grandpa to Dad to protect his identity.

[regnaD kciN]

3. And I wonder how much he'll have to pay to get his daughter out of NYU...

...which isn't exactly Bob Jones University, if you get my drift.

[MindPilot]

4. A "big, manly body-builder" gets hit on repeatedly in

graphics-design school. Hmmmmmmm.

[Ian David]

33. He reminds me of this article in The Onion

Why Do All These Homosexuals Keep Sucking My Cock?
By Bruce Heffernan

Look, I'm not a hateful person or anything--I believe we should all live and let live. But lately, I've been having a real problem with these homosexuals. You see, just about wherever I go these days, one of them approaches me and starts sucking my cock.

Take last Sunday, for instance, when I casually struck up a conversation with this guy in the health-club locker room. Nothing fruity, just a couple of fellas talking about their workout routines while enjoying a nice hot shower. The guy looked like a real man's man, too--big biceps, meaty thighs, thick neck. He didn't seem the least bit gay. At least not until he started sucking my cock, that is.

Where does this queer get the nerve to suck my cock? Did I look gay to him? Was I wearing a pink feather boa without realizing it? I don't recall the phrase, "Suck my cock" entering the conversation, and I don't have a sign around my neck that reads, "Please, You Homosexuals, Suck My Cock."

I've got nothing against homosexuals. Let them be free to do their gay thing in peace, I say. But when they start sucking my cock, then I've got a real problem.

<snip>

I swear, if these homosexuals don't take a hint and quit sucking my cock all the time, I'm going to have to resort to drastic measures--like maybe pinning them down to the cement floor of the loading dock with my powerful forearms and working my cock all the way up their butt so they understand loud and clear just how much I disapprove of their unwelcome advances. I mean, you can't get much more direct that that.

More:
http://www.robcamlive.com/humour/suckingmycock.html

[catmother]

35. thanks for the laugh.

[smirkymonkey]

45. Haha - I was thinking the same thing!

It also seems like this guy may have felt threatened by being in a sauna with you (more likely, threatened by his own latent desires) so he brought up those stories to let you know in no uncertain terms that he is a "manly man" :rofl:

[wicket]

5. I'm an Emerson alum

Wow, he's WAAAAAY off base there. Thank-you for standing up to him.

[Ian David]

11. I'm sure that all the good fundie girls tell their mommies...

"But Mama, they MADE me be a lesbian! They were throwing these things at me and the blood, Mama.. they were all laughing at me! Yes! Yes! And Eve was weak! Mama, they were all laughing at me!"

[The Witch]

43. Seriously, I know loads of Emerson grads

Not a gay one in the bunch... it's actually kinda scary how homogeneously heterosexual they are ;)

[catmother]

6. i've been around gay people (men and women) my entire

adult life. no one has ever tried to coerce me or my husband into being gay.

and if someone proposititions a straight person, all they have to say is "no". if you're secure in your sexuality it shouldn't bother you. in fact, i would take it as a compliment.

[Ian David]

13. I've had plenty of people try to coerce me into lots of things...

For example, I've been told many times that unless I subscibe to their particular flavor of Christianity, I'm doomed to an eternity of suffering.

But nobody's ever told me, "Hey, man... if you wanna hang with the cool kids, you gotta be gay. Otherwise, you eat at the breeder-table."

[catmother]

15. yeah i've been told that many times too. i had someone come

up to me one time and asked "have you been reborn". i said "sir, i've been born many many times".

the jehovah's witnesses got me one day when i was outside washing my car. so i told them all about reincarnation and karma. they said that they had never heard anything like that before.

another time a moonie was out in the street selling her flowers. it was pouring rain. i was in my car. i said "why don't you come home with me and dry off". she said "I couldn't do that". imagine capturing a moonie and trying to deprogramme them. lol

[Beetwasher]

17. Personally, I've Been Flattered When I've Been Hit On By Gay Men

n/t

[CTyankee]

23. Until recently, my gynecologist was a lesbian

She was a well respected physician who gave excellent care to her patients. It took my husband a little time to "get" that but he was fine about it. Geez, why did I even have to "explain" this? A good doctor is a good doctor is a good doctor. Who the hell cares about her sexual orientation?

[catmother]

24. funny story. when i first moved to phoenix i went to a naturapathic

doctor. she did my pap smears. she was married. a few years later she left her husband for a woman. now my friend who is a lesbian said "didn't it bother you that she did your pap smear and now you know that she's gay"? didn't bother me at all -- isn't it the same when a man does your smear? there looking at you medically not sexually.

on edit: when i was married to my first husband back in new york i took him to a gay beach. he said "geez i'm afraid to take my pants off". i said "don't flatter yourself".

[WildEyedLiberal]

25. "don't flatter yourself"

:spray:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[catmother]

27. i have to laugh to when i think about it because he also had

a brooklyn accent. so it was really funny the way it came out. we didn't last together too long.

[WestSeattle2]

32. Reminds me of Senator Sam Nunn back in the day...

when Clinton was pushing to allow gays in the military. Ol' Sam takes a network news crew and boards a submarine, and starts asking the boys how they feel about gays in the military.

Of course all of the guys Sam asked, complained bitterly about how having another guy "lookin' at me that way", was just more than they could possibly handle. Apparently road side bombs they're totally cool with, but another guy checkin' out their sweet cheeks or their little pee-pees is just too painful.

Now, I kid you not, not one of those men was remotely handsome, cute, or sexually appealing in ANY way. Those boys would have had to pay COMBAT pay to a prostitute to get laid, and they're worrying about a guy checking them out?!!! Now that was a ROFLMAO interview!! Talk about "don't flatter yourself"!

Come on, if Sammy was going to use that angle, for gods sake at least interview men that gay guys would bother to look at.

[catmother]

34. that's what's so funny. just because a man or a woman is gay

does not mean that there attracted to everyone of the same sex. they have their preferences the same as straight people.

my husband has never felt uncomfortable around gay men. he's secure in his sexuality. i wonder about those "who doth protest too much".

i happen to know that my ex got blow jobs from some gay guys. he told me so. i don't think that made him gay maybe just horny. lol

[Ian David]

38. Funny button I once saw...

[catmother]

40. that's cute.

[Ian David]

30. Maybe your papsmears turn people gay?

Try rubbing some on your friends and see what happens!

[kenny blankenship]

47. Until recently? What changed her mind?

[CTyankee]

49. Oops! I should have been clearer, She was my gynecologist

until she retired from practice. A dear, dear woman who defied protestors outside of clinics where she provided abortion care. They took down her license plate number, snapped her picture, yelled at her, and she marched right in to the clinic ignoring all of them. I admired her toughness, yet she was very gentle with her patients.

[kenny blankenship]

50. That is sad

My intent wasn't serious and I should have been more clear: A lesbian until recently-what changed her mind?
It seemed like an opportunity for a sex joke and I never let those pass.

[Chipper Chat]

8. The guy needs to take a trip to the video store

and rent: South Pacific, The Brandon Teena Story, and Brokeback Mountain. And he needs to be be educated about Barbara Jordan, Aaron McKinney, Dan White and the homophobic racist policies of the American Republican Party.

[Ian David]

12. That's a very good idea...

[catmother]

36. speaking of Brokeback mountain i didn't find it that explicit. i

thought "six feet under" was more explicit in their gay scenes.

[Ian David]

37. My mom's last purchase at Wal-Mart was Brokeback Mountain...

and Chronicles of Narnia.

We haven't watched either yet.

Anyone do a fake trailer for "Brokeback Narnia" yet, by the way?

[catmother]

39. my mom is cool about gays too. she's 83.

[Chipper Chat]

52. I was mailnly referring to the angst Ennis was going through

in his later years due to real or imagined homophobia.

[catmother]

53. it was a sad movie. but they seemed to make a big deal about

it being sexually explicit.

[Mabus]

14. You should have a made a pass at him

to see if he would forfeit the cost of his membership at the gym like his kid did at school. :rofl: At the very least, it would feed his sick paranoia and make many of his demons seem all too real. In the best of all worlds he would freak out enough to stay home and STFU.

Good for you for telling him some truth.

[Beetwasher]

16. NYU's A Good Choice, No Lesbians There

Greenwich Village is especially known for being gay-free.

[Ian David]

19. I thought about warning him that New York is full of Jews...

Just to see how many different brands of bigotry I could coax out of him.

"You know, New York is full of (whispering) Jews."

I decided I didn't have the patience to experiment on him or engage him much more without risking loss of my gym membership.

There's probably a rule against strangling someone in the sauna.

[Beetwasher]

22. Get Out! There Are Lot's Of Jews In NY?

I thought I was the only one. Where the hell do they hide them all? :evilgrin:

[smirkymonkey]

46. They live in the subway tunnels...

but they only come out at night to feed on the blood of little blond children, so that's probably why you don't see them. :evilgrin:

[boolean]

18. Naked, in a sauna?

This guy has no problem being naked in a sauna with a bunch of other men? Sounds kinda gay.

[Ian David]

20. He was wearing swim trunks.

Probably with underwear underneath, just so nobody could accidentally sneak a peak at his manly, heterosexual package.

[The Icon Painter]

26. Swim trunks?!

In a sauna? Truly weird!

[Stinky The Clown]

21. I've spent the entirety of my adult life in a field that has lots of out

and not so out gay people. I lived a whole college summer working at a seasonal yacht club where I was the only straight man among 16 waiters and cooks living on the property. I have been on committees and task forces with gay people. I have gay neighbors and gay friends.

I have NEVER been propositioned or hit on by one - ever. Only once, when I was a young man working a summer at a large factory was I hit on by a gay man, and he was later arrested for child abuse, so he doesn't count at all. 'Sick fuck' and 'gay' are not synonyms.

The guy you spoke with is, as you so rightly point out, a homphobe. There is NO rationality to it.

And good for you for telling him so.

[Ian David]

28. Lest someone underestimates the depth to which this goes...

Here is an interesting illustration of just how self-destructive these people are willing to become:

Queer allies
The little-noticed alliance between gay marriage opponents and alleged terrorist sympathizers
By Evan Gahr
http://www.jewishworldreview.com |

The Massachusetts Supreme Court decision to legalize homosexual marriage in the Bay state re-ignited the culture wars. The Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism, perhaps the preeminent liberal Jewish organization in Washington, DC, applauded the ruling. Religious-minded conservatives, however, were horrified. They are determined to stop the gay rights movement in its tracks. At what price?

JewishWorldReview.com has discovered that prominent religious conservatives — Jews, Catholics and Evangelical Christians — are allied with a radical Islamic group to stop gay marriage. Pushing a constitutional amendment that would restrict marriage to heterosexuals, they work with the Islamic Society of North America. What is ISNA? According to terrorism expert Steve Emerson, ISNA:

<snip>

In 2001, JewishWorldReview.com reported exclusively that another problematic group, the American Muslim Council, served on the Alliance for Marriage advisory board with Union of Orthodox Jewish Congregations of America's Washington lobbyist, Nathan Diament. Within hours of the story being published, the union withdrew from the advisory board.

Other religious conservatives remained.

But they sounded not like religious figures but rather crass politicians who lack any kind of moral compass. Rabbi Barry Freundel, of the Rabbinical Council of America, who wouldn't say much publicly, remained on the board. Father Richard John Neuhaus, editor of First Things magazine and head of the Institute on Religion and Public Life, simply dismissed the AMC connection as the nature of alliances. So did Rabbi Daniel Lapin of Toward Tradition, which seeks to unite Jews and Christians.

"What I see is that I am supporting an idea and if others with whom I don't agree on a variety of other topics also support the idea," Rabbi Lapin told the Forward after the original expose was published on JewishWorldReview.com, "then they are supporting my idea. I'm not supporting theirs . . . When America allied itself with Russia to defeat Nazi Germany in no way was America endorsing the contemptible politics of the Soviet Union."

About six weeks later, a bunch of young men killed 3000 innocent civilians when they plowed highjacked planes into the Pentagon and the World Trade Center.

More:
http://www.jewishworldreview.com/1203/marriage_terrorists.php3

[WestSeattle2]

29. Yes, it isn't the Fred Phelps of the world that destroy

the fabric of a nation, it's the quiet bigots. Alot of them will even go as far as to pretend to be your friend, all the while stabbing you in the back, whispering behind your back, and voting to take away your rights.

After too many betrayals, I simply don't trust straight people, especially "Christian" straight folks. I'm cordial and polite to everyone, but my close circle of friends are all gay and lesbian.

How much would you bet that "sauna dude" is in management somewhere, working quietly to only promote white, heterosexual married males, preferably with military backgrounds.

America, 2006

[Ian David]

31. Next time, I think I'll experiment

I'll see how many different kinds of people someone like him hates.

The "game" would be to "get on a roll" until you touch upon his group.

For example, maybe in this guy's case, if I had started complaining about "Mary-Worshiping Papists" controlling the government, he might have suddenly become offended.

[Gregorian]

41. IT's love versus hate.

Gays are about love. Homophobes are about hate.

America is sick. And many of it's citizens are full of hate. Hate is very powerful. One can ignore almost anything when harboring hatred.

There isn't much else to say. Like a battered housewife who decides enough is enough. At least she can leave. Like a drunk who decides being sick one last time is enough. At least he can stop.

But we are standing side by side with the enemy. And we always will be. It takes courage just to stay alive.

The only advice I have is to stay clear of these people. Having them in power of politics is a very uncomfortable and dangerous position for this country. I hope the patient survives.

[Mr_Spock]

42. Maybe he was thinking of Smith College?

lol - just being silly here.

[Pale Blue Dot]

44. He's a bigot. He's also gay.

Like all homophobes.

A straight guy has absolutely nothing to fear from a gay person, unless he's afraid that he can be "converted" (like he worried his daughter would be). If he was straight, he would know for sure that he can't be converted.

He's gay. Case closed.

[Ian David]

51. One time in college, I was sitting and talking with a friend of mine...

who was one of my "Computer Bulletin Board Buddies."

We'd talked before at the BBS "munches" and stuff, and it turned out that he knew my roommate through BAGLY (Boston Alliance of Gay and Lesbian Youth).

Anyway, we were sitting and talking in my apartment for about an hour when he blurted out, "You know, I get a strange vibe from you."

"How do you mean," I asked.

"Well, you're straight, right?"

"Yeah."

"And you know I'm gay, right?"

"Yeah..."

"When I'm talking to you, it doesn't seem like you're attracted to me, but you're also not afraid of me, either. It's like you don't care that I'm gay."

"Yeah, and...?"

It opened my eyes to the fact that many gay people are walking around with the burden on their shoulders of believing that the world is divided into two halves-- other gay people, and straight people who want to kill them.

And since the Bush Administration Coup of 2000, more and more people are being divided into groups carrying similar burdens. It isn't just gay people anymore walking around America thinking the country is divided into two groups-- people like me, and people who want to kill me.

Jews, Muslims, Gays, Liberals, Democrats... this administration has divided all of us into enclaves of people who are being scapegoated as "the other."

"...And when they came for me, there was nobody left to speak-out."


Over the years, as I have grown and matured, I have held various preconceptions about gays and other groups that I have grown out of. For example, when I was nineteen, I once congratulated my gay boss for seeming so straight.

But of all the attitudes I've held about gay people, (at least since I was a teen) I don't think one of those has ever been one of fear or hatred.

It doesn't make sense to me.

I just can't understand how someone can be more afraid of gay people than of things like Global Warming, Outsourcing, Warrantless Wiretaps, and a war that has pointlessly cost us 2,582 of our own children and over 30,000 innocent Iraqi civilian lives.

[Behind the Aegis]

56. The Burden...

"It opened my eyes to the fact that many gay people are walking around with the burden on their shoulders of believing that the world is divided into two halves-- other gay people, and straight people who want to kill them.

And since the Bush Administration Coup of 2000, more and more people are being divided into groups carrying similar burdens. It isn't just gay people anymore walking around America thinking the country is divided into two groups-- people like me, and people who want to kill me."

Many of us do walk around with the burden that we will become a victim of a hate crime at any minute. My partner can "pass" for straight, I can only "pass" for straight by blind (without sight) people. When Mr. BtA and I lived in Oklahoma, I didn't want him to reveal who I was. I was OK with people thinking we were roommates because I didn't want my house burned to the ground or him hurt in any way. When his company passed a non-discrimination clause including sexual orientation, I told him he could tell who he wanted at work. Then, his company passed a Domestic Partner policy...I am almost passed out! But, I still didn't tell the neighbors. We didn't know them, they didn't know us!

Now, we live in New Orleans. When he comes home from work, I can kiss him. I can hold his hand in public. I know ALL of our neighbors and they know WHO we are! They don't care! When my partner lost his grandmother last week, they (the neighbors) extended their condolences to me (as he had to go back to OK), and then to him upon his return. I told them I was afraid to tell people I was home alone because I didn't know what might happen. Their response: "if you need us, all you do is call!" Of course, I think we live on the gayest street in New Orleans...we have so many gay couples as neighbors! LOL! But, it is strange to go from the "freak" to "and you are a gay couple...so...?"

It is strange...here, I am not as "afraid" of straight people...well, straight men. They just don't care. They will talk to me, touch me, laugh with me, drink with me, and everything but sleep with me. :) I get to be ME!

But, I do have other 'identities.' I am also Jewish. Within the first month we were here, I saw a group doing the Nazi Salute in a gay bar (of all places), then in front of my house! SEIG HEIL! SEIG HEIL! I got to hear that from my front porch! Like a coward, I didn't put up my 'Star of David' suncatcher my uncle made because I was afraid of what they might do. I am not afraid for myself, I am too damn mean when I have to be...I am afraid they will hurt my partner or my pets...(my home and possessions could be replaced). So now, I am back to square one. The only difference...this time...I will not be afraid! I will not place my loved ones in harm's way...but if they want a piece of me...well, I can't think of a better way to die then standing up for my beliefs!

[Maven]

48. So he's gonna send her to NYU?

To get her away from gayness?

I went to NYU. Gimme a second.

...

OK, I've changed my pants.

P.S. 20 bucks says the bodybuilder comes out within a year.

[izzybeans]

54. If this story would have ended with "that's when he whipped my

C&*K out and started s*&!ing" then I wouldn't be so concerned.

[Skittles]

55. I see this kind of bigotry all the time

what kills me is, these bigots claim to me they KNOW NO GAY PEOPLE. I tell them, oh yes you do, they are just not free to be themselves around your hateful ass.