If the Arabs put down their weapons today, there would be no more violence

[madmunchie]

If the Jews put down their weapons today, there would be no more Israel."

[stopbush]

1. The second half of your statement is absolute bullshit.

[Lerkfish]

2. this poll presumes two points which are not in evidence:

1. that arabs are only interested in violence
2. that jews are only interested in defense.

For one thing, that's such a broad sweeping brush. There are peace-loving jews and arabs, and there are warmongering jews and arabs.
For another thing, it is so dependent on the idea that in a conflict, only one side can be blamed.

[KKKarl is an idiot]

3. I agree

[frankieT]

4. since Israel gave back territories to Egypt

there is lasting peace between the two countries. Continued violence for 30 years against palestinians and lebanese only strengthened the most radical resistants.

[ermoore]

11. Not exactly.

There is peace between Israel and Egypt not because Israel returned Sinai, but because the US pays both countries to keep the peace.

Israel pulled out of Gaza and that didn't exactly lead to peace. Israel pulled out of Lebanon (way back when) and you see where that led. Organizations like Hamas and Hezbollah don't want just the West Bank or Gaza or the Golan Heights, they want all of Israel.

[jpkenny]

13. But the point is that Israel went into those places in the first place.

When you pull back from an invasion that has utterly destroyed another's land, you get no points from me.

[fujiyama]

16. Invasions generally occur

in times of war, and are to be expected in wars started by the other side.

Israel is capable of giving back land and peace is possible if sane leaders are there on both sides.

[Douglas Carpenter]

17. B'tselem calls Gaza a prision

The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories

"Gaza Prison: Freedom of Movement to and from the Gaza Strip on the Eve of the Disengagement Plan - link -

http://www.btselem.org/english/Publications/Summaries/200503_Gaza_Prison.asp



For the past four and a half years, Israel has severely restricted freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip. These restrictions further strangled the Gaza Strip, so much so that the area resembles one gigantic prison. Israel’s policies have reduced many human rights – among them the right to freedom of movement, family life, health, education, and work – to “humanitarian gestures” that Israel sparingly provides.

The Gaza Strip and the West Bank are almost completely separated from each other, and Palestinian travel between the two areas has been drastically reduced. Gazans are not allowed to enter Israel to visit relatives or to live with their spouses, and family visits by Arab citizens and residents of Israel are kept to a minimum. Israel places hardships on Palestinians wanting to leave the region, and prohibits many Palestinians from leaving. The import and export of goods is limited and often stops altogether. A small number of Gazans are allowed to work in Israel, and tens of thousands have lost their jobs.

Detachment of the Gaza Strip from the rest of the world has exacted a price from each and every Palestinian living there. The restrictions on the movement of goods and laborers has created a deep recession, the loss of work, and a dramatic deterioration in living conditions. Over the past four and a half years, the poverty rate has increased by more than 40 percent. Going abroad to obtain medical treatment or to study entails long waits. Severance of the Gaza Strip from the West Bank and Israel results in painful separation from loved ones, and in some cases the separation of children from one of their parents.

Israel’s policy did not come out of the blue, but was a response to the wave of attacks that has struck Israel and the Occupied Territories since the outbreak of the intifada. Attacks aimed at civilians are “war crimes” according to international humanitarian law and are unjustifiable in all circumstances. Israel is entitled, and required, to protect its citizens from such attacks. However, in doing so, Israel does not have the right to trample on the human rights of an entire population.

Israel implements its separation policy in a patently arbitrary and indiscriminate manner. Almost all restrictions are imposed on entire groups of people, based on sweeping criteria, without examining the threat that the individual person poses. The proof is that Israeli authorities have often chosen to reverse their refusal of a person’s request for a movement permit once an attorney or human rights organization intervenes, rather than face an embarrassing legal challenge. Most elements of Israel’s policy are illegal under international law and Israeli law.

In approving the disengagement plan, the government of Israel stated its intention to evade its responsibility for the human rights of Palestinian residents of the Gaza Strip. However, all the human rights violations discussed in this report are likely to continue, and even worsen, after disengagement.

B’Tselem and HaMoked: Center for the Defence of the Individual urge the government of Israel to end its siege policy on the Gaza Strip and to respect the right of Palestinians to freedom of movement.



http://www.btselem.org/english/Maps/Index.asp

For the past four and a half years, Israel has severely restricted freedom of movement to and from the Gaza Strip. These restrictions further strangled the Gaza Strip, so much so that the area resembles one gigantic prison. Israel’s policies have reduced many human rights – among them the right to freedom of movement, family life, health, education, and work – to “humanitarian gestures” that Israel sparingly provides "
____________

"11 July 2006: Human rights groups to Israeli High Court: Stop the harm to the civilian population in Gaza - link:

http://www.btselem.org/english/Press_Releases/20060711.asp

http://www.btselem.org/english/Publications/Summaries/200503_Gaza_Prison.asp

Today, July 11, 2006, six human rights groups petitioned the Israeli High Court demanding that the crossings in Gaza be opened to allow for the steady and regular supply of fuel, food, medicine, and equipment, including spare parts needed to operate generators.
The groups – The Association for Civil Rights in Israel, Physicians for Human Rights-Israel, Hamoked: Center for Defence of the Individual, B’tselem, The Public Committee Against Torture in Israel and Gisha - Center for the Legal Protection of Freedom of Movement also asked for an urgent hearing in order to prevent serious harm to the health of the civilian population, especially patients in hospital, and to prevent the breakdown of the water and sewage system in Gaza.

During the current military operation in the Gaza Strip the Israeli military has interrupted the supply of fuel to Gaza and kept Gaza's crossings mostly closed to supply of food and other humanitarian goods. The uninterrupted supply of fuel and equipment is necessary for the functioning of Gaza's health and sanitation systems, and Gaza requires a steady supply of food and medicine.

Since Gaza's power station was destroyed on June 28, there is an increased need for fuel to power the generators in Gaza and for spare parts to keep the generators running at such a high capacity. The closure of Karni Crossing has led to shortages in food at a time when, given the difficulty of obtaining electricity to prepare and refrigerate foodstuffs, Gaza requires increased shipments of dairy products, meat, flour, and other goods.

Without a steady supply of fuel and parts, hospitals cannot perform life-saving surgery and treatment plants cannot pump and treat sewage in Gaza. Gaza hospitals have reduced their activities to life-saving procedures. Since the bombing of the power plant, Gaza's water utility has been dumping 60,000 cubic meters of raw sewage into the sea each day, for lack of power and equipment to run the treatment plants, and there is concern that untreated sewage will pollute the aquifer or spill into the streets.


Because of the electricity shortages, stores in Gaza have stopped selling meat and dairy products. Trucks laden with food and medicine have been stuck at Karni Crossing, which has been closed since July 6, including 230 containers from international aid organizations.

Withholding fuel, food, and equipment from Gaza residents constitutes collective punishment, in violation of international law. The petition argues that Israel is not fulfilling its legal obligations to provide for the needs of the civilian population and to distinguish between military and civilian targets.

According to Faysal Shawa, a businessman and Gaza resident: "We have been thrown back to the way people lived 100 years ago ... We don't have water, we don't have milk for our kids."

According to Maher Najer, Deputy Director of Gaza's Water Company: "We face severe shortages in the electricity, fuel, and spare parts needed to operate Gaza's water and sewage systems. These shortages threaten to create a public health catastrophe."

[Tom Joad]

5. Just foolish, and shows no sense of history or current events.

The children of Qana had no weapons, look where it got them?
But more to the point, Israel is using its military might to annex even more land in the West Bank

What about the "disengagement"? you gotta be kidding, Israel plans to evacuate some settlements but then annex large parts of the West Bank, and herd Palestinians into several disconnected bantustans where they will be allowed to eke out some kind of survival, seperated by Jewish-only roads, and Jewish-only settlements, right there in the West Bank.

think that in any case Palestinians should use nonviolent resistance? They are! One of many such resisters has been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize by the American Friends Service Comm. See
http://www.afsc.org/news/2006/nobel-nomination.htm

[skeeters2525]

6. Reality Time

If America put down it's weapons, there would be no more wars.

Of course I am half serious, there will always be wars.

But America, and the Bush families make a shitload of money off wars. They love wars. They can't yank their meat without fantasizing about wars. Ever see that perverted smile Bush gets on his face when he talks about the dead.

If every Arab laid down their arms. We would put a gun in their hands and fire a shot and we would invade.

And Daddy Bush and Cheney will circle jerk in a pile of money.

[Virginia Dare]

7. War machine must be fed....n/t

[Tom Joad]

8. If Palestinians stop resistance, there will be no more Palestine.

I am not advocating armed resistance, but it seem clear that Israel wants to take land from Palestinians, and drive them into small enclaves.

I also think the Palestinians have no less of a right to self-defense as Israel. Perhaps the answer is a workable solution for everyone.

[Tom Joad]

9. Although, i really do think that Israel seeks to take Palestinian

land without a shot being fired. In much the same mindset as most muggers hope to take wallets without a shot being fired in anger. Is that seeking "peace"???

[Sinti]

10. If all humans refused to be led by fear and hatred into

killing their fellow human beings, at the command of a small group of war/power mongering men, (who view the weapon wielders and their offspring as little better than cannon fodder btw) there would be no more war. As long as we allow ourselves to be led around by the nose ring like cattle, we will be slaughtered like cattle... Arab, Israeli, European, African, Asian, Central American, North American, it makes no difference.

[MsMagnificent]

12. Quote is straight out of Megaphone

No better than Karl Rove's crap.

[Douglas Carpenter]

14. There is an offer for peace between Arab countries and Israel:

This specific offer was unanimously affirmed by the Arab League and immediately endorsed by the Palestinian leadership in March 2002. However, more or less the same plan has been offered by the Arab League and enthusiastically endorsed by the Palestinian leadership going back much, much longer:

link:

http://www.mideastweb.org/saudipeace.htm

"The Arab Peace Initiative
(translation by Reuters).

The Council of Arab States at the Summit Level at its 14th Ordinary Session, reaffirming the resolution taken in June 1996 at the Cairo Extra-Ordinary Arab Summit that a just and comprehensive peace in the Middle East is the strategic option of the Arab countries, to be achieved in accordance with international legality, and which would require a comparable commitment on the part of the Israeli government.

Having listened to the statement made by his royal highness Prince Abdullah bin Abdul Aziz, crown prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in which his highness presented his initiative calling for full Israeli withdrawal from all the Arab territories occupied since June 1967, in implementation of Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338, reaffirmed by the Madrid Conference of 1991 and the land-for-peace principle, and Israel's acceptance of an independent Palestinian state with East Jerusalem as its capital, in return for the establishment of normal relations in the context of a comprehensive peace with Israel.

Emanating from the conviction of the Arab countries that a military solution to the conflict will not achieve peace or provide security for the parties, the council:

1. Requests Israel to reconsider its policies and declare that a just peace is its strategic option as well.

2. Further calls upon Israel to affirm:

I- Full Israeli withdrawal from all the territories occupied since 1967, including the Syrian Golan Heights, to the June 4, 1967 lines as well as the remaining occupied Lebanese territories in the south of Lebanon.

II- Achievement of a just solution to the Palestinian refugee problem to be agreed upon in accordance with UN General Assembly Resolution 194.

III- The acceptance of the establishment of a sovereign independent Palestinian state on the Palestinian territories occupied since June 4, 1967 in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, with East Jerusalem as its capital.

3. Consequently, the Arab countries affirm the following:

I- Consider the Arab-Israeli conflict ended, and enter into a peace agreement with Israel, and provide security for all the states of the region

II- Establish normal relations with Israel in the context of this comprehensive peace.

4. Assures the rejection of all forms of Palestinian patriation which conflict with the special circumstances of the Arab host countries

5. Calls upon the government of Israel and all Israelis to accept this initiative in order to safeguard the prospects for peace and stop the further shedding of blood, enabling the Arab countries and Israel to live in peace and good neighborliness and provide future generations with security, stability and prosperity

6. Invites the international community and all countries and organizations to support this initiative.

7. Requests the chairman of the summit to form a special committee composed of some of its concerned member states and the secretary general of the League of Arab States to pursue the necessary contacts to gain support for this initiative at all levels, particularly from the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States of America, the Russian Federation, the Muslim states and the European Union."
___________

And this is the offer Israel made at Camp David in 2000:

link:

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1113

"The annexations and security arrangements would divide the West Bank into three disconnected cantons. In exchange for taking fertile West Bank lands that happen to contain most of the region’s scarce water aquifers, Israel offered to give up a piece of its own territory in the Negev Desert--about one-tenth the size of the land it would annex--including a former toxic waste dump.

Because of the geographic placement of Israel’s proposed West Bank annexations, Palestinians living in their new “independent state” would be forced to cross Israeli territory every time they traveled or shipped goods from one section of the West Bank to another, and Israel could close those routes at will. Israel would also retain a network of so-called “bypass roads” that would crisscross the Palestinian state while remaining sovereign Israeli territory, further dividing the West Bank.

Israel was also to have kept "security control" for an indefinite period of time over the Jordan Valley, the strip of territory that forms the border between the West Bank and neighboring Jordan. Palestine would not have free access to its own international borders with Jordan and Egypt--putting Palestinian trade, and therefore its economy, at the mercy of the Israeli military.

Had Arafat agreed to these arrangements, the Palestinians would have permanently locked in place many of the worst aspects of the very occupation they were trying to bring to an end. For at Camp David, Israel also demanded that Arafat sign an "end-of-conflict" agreement stating that the decades-old war between Israel and the Palestinians was over and waiving all further claims against Israel"

snip:"In April 2002, the countries of the Arab League--from moderate Jordan to hardline Iraq--unanimously agreed on a Saudi peace plan centering around full peace, recognition and normalization of relations with Israel in exchange for a complete Israeli withdrawal to the 1967 borders as well as a "just resolution" to the refugee issue. Palestinian negotiator Nabil Sha'ath declared himself "delighted" with the plan. "The proposal constitutes the best terms of reference for our political struggle," he told the Jordan Times (3/28/02)."

read full article:

The Myth of the Generous Offer
Distorting the Camp David negotiations

By Seth Ackerman

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1113

[USA_1]

15. Israel is and has always been the aggressor

http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0801/p09s02-coop.html

http://www.geocities.com/alabasters_archive/sacred_terror.html

[Josh]

18. Yeah, especially when the two states were proclaimed in 1948

and Israel IMMEDIATELY said "this isn't good enough!" and invaded the other side.

Or in 1967 when they massed on the the borders of the other Arab states that they are *surrounded by* and then invaded.

Or in 1973 when they waited for the holiest day of the year for their enemies while they were all praying and then invaded their land in an incredibly cowardly fashion.

Oh wait, that wasn't Israel, that was the people who *surround* Israel and are dedicated to destroying them and wiping them off the face of the planet.

Yep, Israel is and always has been the aggressor.

Why the FUCK doesnt' anyone ever criticise Hezbollah or Hamas - these are organisations who are dedicated to eliminating Israel.

Here are some choice quotes from the leader of Hezbollah Sheik Hassan Nasrallah:

On Al-Manar television, 18/02/05: "Israel is our enemy. This is an aggressive, illegal, and illegitimate entity, which has no future in our land. Its destiny is manifested in our motto: 'Death to Israel.'"

In Al-Hayat, 01/02/00: "Even if is signed we will continue to view as an illegitimate and illegal entity."

On Al-Manar, 23/05/06: "The Zionist entity’s weakness is ‘their strong adherence to this world’…our strength is the willingness to sacrifice our blood and children."

In the New Yorker, 14/10/02: "If we searched the entire world for a person more cowardly, despicable, weak and feeble in psyche, mind, ideology and religion, we would not find anyone like the Jew. Notice, I do not say the Israeli."

In the Lebanese paper Daily Star, 23/10/02: "If they (Jews) all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide."

Some of you people honest to god make me sick.