Should a photo ID be required when casting a vote?

[question everything]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/18/AR2005091801364.html

Carter-Baker Panel to Call for Voting Fixes
Election Report Urges Photo IDs, Paper Trails And Impartial Oversight

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. My mother is 81, was born at home

so she has no birth certificate, has no drivers license and can't remember where she put her passport or social security card. So she has no ID. Hundreds of thousands of elderly people in this country have no picture ID.

[journalist3072]

8. That's exactly right, and that is why

that federal judge struck down Georgia's Voter ID measure. The judge ruled it was tantamount to an unconstitutional poll tax.

Even after Georgia lawmakers revised the measure and said the IDs would be free of charge to people who need them, the judge said it was not enough to make the IDs free, and they needed to do some more work to make it fair to the voters.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. I wish they would throw the MO law out too

The state is offering picture IDs for free, but you have to have a birth certificate to get one and that costs $15. So it sure seems like a poll tax.

The other thing that sends me over the edge about this is voter fraud is NOT a problem. I live in a bi-state area and every election, there are a handful of voters who vote in both states. A handful, not thousands and not even hundreds. And never enough to throw an election.

Those electronic machines, though - now THERE is the problem. But the repukes just ignore that.

[POAS]

2. Require a photo ID for the vote-counters

[Fridays Child]

3. It's just another way that the GOP wants to slam the door...

...now that they're in complete control of the government. This country's poor and minorities are the two most likely demographic groups to either not have photo IDs or not understand the voting requirement. And it's well-documented that those two groups are traditionally blue.

[question everything]

10. These days Social Security cards are used as ID

And everyone has one. So I wonder if we could issue SS cards with photo. After all, we do use photo ID to write a check and, for a while, some retailers wanted a photo ID when I paid with a VISA card "to protect me" they said.

I wonder whether SS cards with a photo would have prevented some of the fraud post Katrina.

As an idea I don't see anything wrong with it, but there is always the suspicion that it can be used for nefarious purposes.

[LiberalFighter]

13. These days SS cards are now issued to babies

Even in the old days when SS cards were generally issued to mostly those gainfully employed how much change would there be in one's appearance 20, 30, 40 years after the pic was taken?

[Tanuki]

4. As we saw in New Orleans,

the people who didn't have cars were more likely to be poor and minority citizens. If they don't have a car, they will also be less likely to have a driver's license, and therefore less likely to have a picture i.d. This is just another way to selectively disenfranchise potential non-GOP voters.

[El Supremo]

5. To cast a vote, no. To register to vote, yes.

Present your voter registration card when you vote.

[question everything]

11. I agree

unless, of course, you register at the polling place.

[Captain Hilts]

28. Mine's just a piece of cardboard. No photo, no hologram, watermark...

such a card just doesn't mean anything and would be so easy to copy.

[Captain Hilts]

6. Yes. It discourages fraud. nt

[LiberalFighter]

16. How many instances of fraud has really been proven?

I agree that voter fraud should be illegal and should be prevented.

But it can and should be prevented under past methods. If the poll worker suspects that a person is not who they say they are then challenge them. (This should not be abused and if it is then that poll worker should be investigated and determine whether they should be barred from working elections)

A poll worker should compare signatures on file with the voter sign in. A poll worker should have some knowledge of who lives in the ward/precinct.

In a very few states they don't even have voter registration. They know everyone in the precinct!

[Captain Hilts]

18. Fraud/signatures, etc.

I actually worked a bit in this field and there are all sorts of deliberate things that the crazy ass survivalists out west do to try and screw up the voting process.

I don't think comparing signatures would work as easily or as efficiently as photo i.d.s

I've voted in Virginia Beach and Bethesda MD and I've never, personally, known any of the poll workers. Not even in Va. Beach.

Perhaps if people could show i.d.s, fewer of the folks with duplicate names would not have been prohibited from voting in Florida in 2000 just because another Alex Gonzales was on the banned list. Did anyone go to jail for that crap?

[question everything]

22. Did this really happen?

Voters with similar names as convicts were banned from voting in Florida in 2000?

[Captain Hilts]

27. Evidently it did. People with identical names were not...

permitted to vote.

That's why I always wondered why this didn't become a class action case of some kind. I know someone tried to take it to court but did not have adequate standing.

[dogman]

7. How long before drug testing and a DNA backup?

Soon you can pay a tax and prove land ownership before voting.

[bullimiami]

9. put a picture on the voters registration.

of course they wont because its all a ruse to keep the under classes from voting for liberals.

[Kailassa]

12. so 13 people here have already voted for disenfranchising voters

That is all this is about. What proof is there that people who can't afford photo ID have Ever committed voter fraud?

We all know about the fraud; it's in the machines, in the system.

It's already hard enough for the poor to get to the often distant polling booths and wait all day in a queue to vote. The problem for our party is them not voting ... yet people here want even less to be able to.

And I wonder why the rupukes are so quick to believe what Georgie tells them...

Doesn't anyone remember?

http://www.alternet.org/images/managed/Story+Image_1965.jpg

[Captain Hilts]

19. Photo i.d. and Florida 2000

One of the reasons they were able to keep a lot of the "Alex Gonzales"s from voting was because all they had was a list of names. A more detailed i.d. process would have made it possible for those who were not ex-felons and on the banned list to vote.

You need i.d. for nearly everything in our country, why not to vote? I don't know anyone who does not have a voter i.d.

If someone shows up at the polls without a photo i.d. then give them a provisional ballot and 3 days to prove their identity.

It's not about preventing people from voting.

[Kailassa]

29. Whether or not you know people without photo ID

depends on what circles you move in. Intense poverty is generally found in pockets, (no pun intended) and a middle class person is not likely to know them.

In Australia, you have to register beforehand, and then you go to the local polling booth where your name and address are recorded, identify yourself, and cast your vote. Your name is ticked off and if anyone else was to claim the same name and address, there would be an investigation. There are always more than enough booths. I have never had to travel further than a 20 minute walk to vote, or wait more than 5 minutes for an empty booth, and I've lived in 27 different areas. Of course there is also provision for both postal and absentee voting. Nearly everybody votes, but the votes are still all counted within a couple of days.

I don't understand the American idea of having to identify yourself as a democratic or republican voter. Here it would be considered a terrible intrusion of privacy to have to reveal who you vote for. I've known several woman with abusive husbands who have always been able to freely vote for someone their husband does not approve of, with no need to fear he will ever find out.

America's problem with people not being able to vote because their names were on a banned list is not the result of no photo ID, it's the result of having a banned list.

One of my sons cannot read or write, yet he is still encouraged to vote, although his disability means he does not have to. If he had murdered a dozen people and was waiting for execution, (which we don't have in Australia,) he would still be able to vote. There is no valid reason for preventing criminals voting. It is simply the remnant of the time when white male land-holders were the only ones who could vote. As you have seen, any black list is an open invitation to "the cabal" to meddle and misuse the system for their own gain.

[question everything]

32. You do not have to identify yourself as a Democrat or a Republican

to vote in the general elections. You do, however, if you want to vote in the primaries. And it makes sense. Take the 2004 elections. Bush was running unopposed (more or less) in his party, thus many Republicans could have registered as Democrat and vote in the Democratic primaries for a candidate who otherwise would not be the choice of most Democrats, just to throw the selection process.

I know of some who were registered as Independent, or as Democrats, who changed their registration in 2000 to vote for McCain in the primaries since, again, Gore was practically unopposed.

Yes, as others have pointed, one should be able to prove who s/he is while registering to vote and then have his/her name among the voters on election day. Some states, however, allow for registering at the polls on election day but, I think, you have to show some kind of an ID and a utility bill showing your address.

I agree with the problem of a banned list and this was really the main problem in Florida in 2000, more so, I think, than the "hanging chad."

[roseBudd]

36. It had nothing to do with photo ID, FL deliberately asked for the widest

most unreliable match in the database, they did not use SS, or birthdate AND they went trolling for felonies commited in other states before the voter moved to FL. They grabbed a list from TX that was oops, misdemeanors. 56,000 mostly African Americans were deemed ineligable to vote in FL 2000.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

14. Another way to keep poor people from voting

Most people would use their driver's license for a photo i.d., since that's probably the only one they have. In California our licenses have our home addresses printed on them. When you move you're supposed to stick a post-it on the back with the new address. Everyone does that, right?

So you show up to vote, show your i.d. and your address doesn't match the one on the voter rolls. They don't let you vote because how do they really know it's you? It's a great way to nail people who move frequently because of job transfers or family circumstances.

Between Republicans and Democrats, who is more likely to own a home and who rents? Just curious.

[question everything]

23. Between Republicans and Democrats, who is more likely to move

frequently - increase in rent, condo conversion, etc. - and who is more likely to stay at the same address?

I don't think that you can draw a conclusion from there. I thought that if you move, you can bring a recent utility bill with your name and new address.

And just as some say that voter fraud is not prevalent - and I really do not know - how many really cannot vote because they did not registered with the new Registrar of Voters?

And then there is also appearance. We have to use some kind of ID almost every place, why not while voting (or registering?) At least the message will be that this process is being taken seriously.

[Awsi Dooger]

15. I read somewhere that 12% of people lack a photo ID of this type

And they are overwhelmingly senior citizens and student-age, in other words very likely to vote for Democrats.

Anyone voting yes to this is essentially endorsing suppression. Real world theft, not theoretical like Diebold.

on edit: the 12% seems high, but it was mentioned in an article regarding the Georgia case.

[Captain Hilts]

20. Students and elderly

What students don't have a photo i.d.? Every school I ever attended required one.

Folks without an i.d. should be able to fill out a provisional ballot and be given x days to prove their identity. Most elderly men have some kind of military/VA card. Women would be tougher. But don't you need to show some form of i.d. to apply for Medicare/SS?

[midnight]

17. A photo ID should not be required, but a auditing system should.

[Kailassa]

30. By an auditing system, do you mean a voters' roll,

such as we we have in Australia?

Here, everyone has to register to vote when they turn 18, and each area has a registry of voters in that area. When you move house you have to officially change your address, but that is easily done at any post office.

When I vote, I generally go to my local polling booth, set up at a local government school, where they will have a voter's roll, like a large phone book, and will cross my name off in it and give me voting papers. I walk into a private booth, vote, and poke the papers through a slit into a ballot box. It all takes a couple of minutes. As voting is theoretically compulsory for Australians, there would be hell to pay for the government if it was not quick and convenient. I say "theoretically", because all that is actually required of you is that you get your name ticked off.

By the way, voting in Australia is always on a Saturday, which leaves the schools free to use as polling booths and means fewer people are at work. And of course it is possible to vote absentee or by mail.

[zann725]

24. I think Rhandi Rhodes was right...we should alll Certify Mail our votes.

And there should be some sort of database (like on ATM's)...where our transaction (vote) is verified aas it was cast.

If it does NOT. THen we have the legal proof how we did vote.

Also, there's going to be HUGE numbers of missing/dead people from recent natural catastrophies over the last year (such as Katrina)...who are going to vote Repug, no doubt...from the grave. All those numbers of "dead" NOT counted in the million dollar morgue built for Katrina, after Katrina, and monitored by the guy who took the buck-shot in the face from Cheney a few months back. All those people unaccounted for, and no one (in the Repug vote counting business obviously cares).

[lonehalf]

25. Voter ID

I can say that my experience as a poll worker in Georgia that the public has no concern about a picture ID.

In my precinct 100% of voters showed a picture ID - even though they have 17 choices (Only a few are a picture).

I know that one person showed a pistol carry license. It had a picture.

No one else showed anything that didn't have a picture.

[El Supremo]

26. No. Vote early and vote often!

It's the American way! :patriot:

Really, the Repugs cheat. How else are we going to stop them?

:evilgrin:

[Totally Committed]

31. Many, many African-Americans born before WWII, were born at home,

and have no birth certificates. It is, therefore difficult for them to obtain picture ID. While some have managed to obtain this ID (through christening, and baptismal records from their churches), most of the older ones have not.

So, by requiring photo ID to vote or to register to vote, is to exclude many, many older Blacks. Defacto Jim Crow tactics, in fact. No wonder the Bushies are pushing for this.

TC

[Captain Hilts]

35. They weren't drafted? Don't drive? Get SocSec or Medicare? VA Med care?

[insleeforprez]

33. I'd say yes

...contingent on the easy availability of free ID.

[McCamy Taylor]

34. Photo ID=Poll Tax + exploited by poll watchers to challenge voters.

As in "That doesnt look like you" to every African-american or Hispanic voter who comes to vote. The poll watcher will later laugh and shrug and say "They all look alike to me".

[niccolos_smile]

37. Other: depends on how photo id is obtained.

If a DL, or some other form of paid id, is required then no, I wouldn't support it, but I would support putting photos on voter registration cards at the time of registration.

[rexcat]

38. Photo ID only when signature does not match voter registration!

I am a poll worker in Ohio. I have never seen a situation where the signature does not match. That said there are two reasons to require ID: If the signature does not match or there is a note on the voter roll that a ID is required!