DU, I need some help with my brother.. a very "interesting" case...

[jjrjsa]

I am trying to get my brother to vote democratic... he is a former one-issue voting GOPer turned apathetic stay-at-home voter, here are some facts about him:

-He used to vote GOP based only on abortion, as he got older (around 2000) he began to drift away from them as he began to realize his positions matched better with the left.

-He is very pro-labor and against the war in Iraq and war in general. He is not a leftist by any means, but in general is anti-corporate and pro-labor. He is anti-abortion but now believes the government should stay out of it.

Now here is the problem, even though he knows the Democratic Party is the party for him, he refuses to vote for them (and thus won't vote, since he believes third-party votes are a waste) due to one issue:

Dems are the party of Clinton.

He LOATHES Bill Clinton with a passion. Now, not because of the usual RW stuff about blowjobs... but he believes Clinton sold out America by supporting Free Trade agreements, the chinese, etc. He believes Bush is much worse, but he thinks Clinton set the stage for Bush.

Basically... he tells me that the same ideals that made him leave the GOP do not allow him to vote for a party that, the last time it held the presidency, did such bad things in his view.

Can you help me with some facts, DU? I need some pro-labor, anti-corporate stats on either Bill Clinton or democrats in general. I know the Democratic Party is not a leftist dream... but they are for sure a lot more labor-friendly than the GOP. Can anyone give me some good stuff to use on him? Thanks in advance.

[gratuitous]

1. Eight years of incredible growth

We were actually paying down the national debt at the end of Clinton's presidency. Something totally reversed in less than five years of Bush and Republican budgets. Instead of our nation's wealth going to service our own people, rebuild our infrastructure, it's going to service our creditors. Like China.

Remember, Mr. Bush was the fellow who lost one of our spy planes to China, and had to grovel and apologize to get the crew back. We got the plane and its technology back in teeny tiny pieces only through the good offices of the Russians.

The people who set the stage for Bush were his daddy's Supreme Court appointees.

[eridani]

18. Accompanied by dramatic increases in poverty and homelessness

The growth was for the already well off, and when it started to trickle down it was nowhere near enough to bring the income of working Americans up to where it was in 1973.

OK, Clinton blocked some of the worst Repub excesses, but this was not a golden age for most people.

I think the OP should point out that Dems have improved a great deal--unlike NAFTA, most voted against CAFTA. Also there are lots of vigorous pro-labor advocates in the Progressive Caucus and the Black Caucus.

[DRoseDARs]

2. Is your brother not aware that Bill Clinton can't be President again?

Nor can he represent your brother in Congress (in either chamber) unless Clinton moves to the same state. Tell your brother to stop being so damned pedantic. One-trick-ponyism is the Republicans' schtick.

[RagingInMiami]

3. That's about as dumb as the right-wing Cubans in Miami who can't vote dem

Because JFK was a democrat and he sold them out at the Bay of Pigs.

[otherlander]

7. Well, none of the current Democrats are proposing that we invade Cuba,

except maybe Lieberman, I wouldn't put it past him.

But the Democratic party hasn't taken a strong stand against NAFTA, and they aren't presenting themselves as the workers' rights party. There are probably a lot of people like this guy, and I don't know what to tell people like him, but I do believe that the Democrats would win if they got back behind the workers' rights movement. Propaganda might be able to trick people into supporting war, but it wouldn't be so easy to trick America into opposing their own jobs and well-being. The New Deal made it the party's central issue, but now it's the anti-war votes that are being counted on, which I'm not at all sure is going to work.

[welshTerrier2]

4. many Democrats oppose Free Trade

tell your brother that he is painting with too broad a brush ... if he opposes Democrats who vote for Free Trade or have weak records on labor issues, that shouldn't preclude him for voting for solid progressive Democrats who have good records ...

voting need not be an all or nothing proposition ...

and as for being the "party of Clinton", tell him the party is struggling to define itself and that there are many who oppose what Clinton did on trade and on other issues as well ... tell him we would welcome his support in our struggle ...

[demosincebirth]

5. If he is pro labor then then he must know , or should know, that

all of the labor laws passed in this country, protecting all workers whether union or not, since the turn of the last century were passed by democrats The opposition to the benefits he enjoys today were all opposed by republicans. The last one passed was signed by Bill Clinton, called the Family Leave Act, which was opposed by...yes, 95% of Republicans. I also disagreed with the Free Trade Agreement which Clinton signed. Very bad legislation. But you can't throw the baby out with the bath water. either.

Just remind him that the next time he has a weekend off or works 8hrs a day, or thinks why we have the 40hr week, or paid vacations, sick leave, and many more, its because of democrats and not the Family Value, Corporate loving Republicans.

If the republicans had their own way, eighty percent of us would be working for 5 bucks a day, and many of us would be crossing (illegally) into Mexico looking for a better life.

I know a few union members who think the way he does - pro union, but still vote republican because of some issue like abortion, welfare or guns. Never a "bread and butter" issue - just issues tinged with a little racism, misogyny or bigotry.

[AtomicKitten]

6. He was brainwashed to hate Bill Clinton.

The GOP worked really hard for it. Some Republicans are seeing the light, though, putting him and the idiot boy-king side by side.

Talk to him about the number the GOP did on Clinton. Surely the GOP wrecking machine tactics are legendary by now. Perhaps if he can gain some perspective, you can turn him to the light.

[lvx35]

8. allow him to hate whatever individual politician, just bring him in.

Let him know that the Democrats are shaped by people like him who work to shape what thje party is democratically, and that that are lots of Dems who hate the pro corporate stuff. Let him know that the party needs people like him to make it strong for labor, and its a big tent so he doesn't have to toe the party line like with repukes, he can have differing opinions on some issues.

[CK_John]

9. He may be just voting the opposite of you. You two may

have issues or he may not be able to make a decision and will follow the herd. It may be safer for him to stay home and not vote against us.

[Erika]

10. Quit babying him. Clinton is not the face of the party. n/t

[dweller]

11. take the easy way ... out.

sign him up here and let him find out for himself.

he'll make friends, engage in threads, learn alot, make a few people pissed, get flamed, be defended by others, and probably thank you in the long run for turning him on to DU.

and he'll never be bored.
dp

[sandnsea]

12. Bill Clinton's not the Democratic Party

And plenty of Dems aren't thrilled with his trade agreements. However, Clinton never intended these trade agreements to be implemented without attention to environmental regulations and humane labor. The Mariana Islands is absolute proof of that. Republicans fought for the free trade immigration policies that allowed the CNMI to import Chinese labor, keep them in slave conditions including using some in the sex industry and forcing abortions; and then exporting goods under the "Made in the USA" label. Democrats, including Clinton, fought that but couldn't get the changes through the Republican House, another gift from Tom Delay and Jack Abramoff. There's more to the issues of trade than that, but that's a good starter.

[snowbear]

13. He loathes Bill Clinton.. but he doesn't loathe George Bush ?!?!?!

[demosincebirth]

14. Republican voters hate Clinton because he is

smarter than all the repugs put together. And he was getting BJs in the White House, which many repugs wish they were getting. Seriously, they hate intelligence and common sense. Why else would they dislike Clinton?

[rman]

15. Maybe it helps if you tell him Reagan set the stage for both

Clinton and Bush, and that not all Dem reps are like Clinton.

If you want pro-labor, pro-fair trade you've got to look at Dems like Kucinich.

[Greyhound]

16. Don't know if it will help, but your brother sounds like he wants to be

convinced. Except for the abortion issue, our views are very similar, though I'd never vote for a re:puke:, ever.

On the matter of Bill Clinton, he is not wrong at all. You are not going to find any pro-labor or anti-corporate stats on his administration, without doing some very specific cherry-picking, simply because his administration was decidedly anti-worker and thoroughly pro-corporate (I'll bet he knows, and you've forgotten, that Al Gore cast the deciding vote to pass NAFTA).

As for the party as a whole, our pro-labor stance is a fading memory of bygone days. The Democratic Party abandoned labor in the early 80's and has actively worked against their interests ever since.

I guess the bottom line is that, for this cycle anyway, we must vote for the Dems, as more re:puke: rule is unthinkable.

Aside: The only way to throw your vote away, is to not use it. I don't care if you vote for the party of "Gay Communist Nazis", as long as you vote.

[Toots]

17. Well it won't hurt a bit if he just stays home and doesn't vote

I suspect there will be a few more like him. :shrug: Rome wasn't built in a day nor America destroyed in one either..