We could learn from lessons from our neighbors to the south

[nadinbrzezinski]

first off, unlike most of you this election I have no horse. Why? I have followed this for the last two years and none of the above would have been far better since NONE of the three parties fielded candidates that were worth voting for... and I do know some details that most folks like to gloss over when it comes to Lopez Obrador, yes folks HE DID bankrupt the equivalent of DC when he was mayor

That said... boy is he fighting the good fight. Imagine if you will... Kerry going to the Mall in DC and detailing every irregularity in the vote and asking for the election to be nullified. Essentially, this is what the Mexican news media is reporting, Lopez Obrador just did. As I predicted, this was not going to be pretty. He did this at the Zocalo, in downtown Mexico... in front of thousands, some say millions. If you can read Spanish here is the link

http://www.jornada.unam.mx/2006/07/08/index.php

Oh and the European Union observers are recommending a revision of the process

Even the church is getting involved with a call to review the processs... mind you in Mexico the Church should not even say a word... but that is a whole different matter.

And this will end up in the courts.

But imagine if you will, Kerry doing the same after 2004... and US taking to the streets... it is not only Kerry but us who share responsibility for the situation we are all in.

[Donkeykick]

1. I share your frustrations on this matter.

But imagine if you will, Kerry doing the same after 2004... and US taking to the streets... it is not only Kerry but us who share responsibility for the situation we are all in.

But if this happened the only thing that would happen is the Governors calling out the National Guard and people would wind up getting hurt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

2. Ok here is the damn question for you

because obviously they are willing to do it... are you willing to get hurt or even die for YOUR COUNTRY?

After you answer that, you will realize that freedom isn't free, and at times you have to fight and even bleed for it. In that sense when the Rights say those words, they are correct, yet they miss the meaning, as in the FULL MEANING of them.

[uppityperson]

3. obviously people are not willing, afraid to do something

after all, might get into trouble. While manners are good, sometimes they do interfere with being able to get things done. Enough people have to get uncomfortable enough to risk this.

[nadinbrzezinski]

4. Down south they have been pushed for close to a generation

for most they have nothing left to loose. I hate to think we will need to reach that point. On the bright side, I won't be alive to see it...

Oh hells bells, when is American Idol?

I know, people need to be hungry enough

[AndyTiedye]

6. Longer than a Generation. More Like Since the Conquistadors Showed Up

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. I'm talking of the current history, not the last almost

six hundred years... mind you if you were a Mixtec and the Aztecs came to visit there would be some problems

[AndyTiedye]

5. I Really Think That's What the BFEE Wants

That would give them the excuse they need to bring down the hammer on us all.
They would turn the Talibornagains loose and we'd be stuck with a
government strongly resembling the one in Saudi Arabia.

[nadinbrzezinski]

8. And I see these answers of they will

bring out the troops if millions of us take to the streets as more proper of spring time patriots. They got what they want, a very compliant population that will rant and rave, but when push comes to shove will NOT do what needs to be done.

The founders knew the stakes were very high, mostly the noose... are you willing to take the same risks? Or would you rather seat at home, rant and rave, and watch American Idol? Look south, class IS on.

[Donkeykick]

11. Yep!

Before you know it we all would be labeled terrorists, right? ;)

[Peace Patriot]

9. "...yes folks he did bankrupt.." I don't know. I'm reminded of Jimmy

Carter being blamed for inflation and for the oil crisis. Was it his decisions, or was it global corporate predators conspiring to bring him down?

And I'm skeptical from another angle as well. And it is this: The Bushites have created a $10 TRILLION deficit by larding the super-rich and war profiteers. Now Nancy Pelosi is starting to talk about a "balanced budget" again. Uh-huh. Sorry. You CANNOT repair the damage these shitheads have done to our country with a "balanced budget." Ask FDR! What they want is for US--we, the poor and middle class--to pay for the most massive looting in the history of humankind.

Now, I don't know a single thing about this charge against Lopez Obrador. It's the first I've heard of it. And I am open to considering facts and reality. But my experience of the Bushites (who are very close to the Foxites) tells me that the rich looted the vast poor of Mexico City, and Lopez Obrador, an advocate of the poor, may have been doing the sensible thing--SPENDING MONEY--to help the poor get into a position to remedy their situation. Spending on infrastucture. Spending on basic help--food, shelter, education. Even giveaways. And make-work jobs (such as FDR did, in massive jobs programs). You can't begin to create prosperity and hope--after the devastation that the greedy rich can inflict--by pinching pennies.

It's hard for me to believe that Lopez Obrador was just irresponsible and didn't care. Is that what you're saying? Also, he doesn't seem to be in it for himself. He is not a wealthy man. So, if he bankrupted something (you mean Mexico City?), it wasn't venal. Are you saying he's incompetent, or what? I'd really like to know. How did this bankruptcy occur? Why did it occur? Was Lopez Obrador responsible for it (through incompetence)? The victim of it? Were funds to the City cut off--to give big tax breaks to the rich, federally? Was it a deliberate FDR-like design for deficit spending to raise people up to a decent living standard, so they can cope with their situation?

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EU observers: what does that mean--a "revision of the process"? I read remarks of Jose Ignacio Salafranca--a Spanish conservative and free tradist, apparently heading that election monitoring group, who apparently said they had "ruled out fraud" (although that does not rule out a WRONG outcome). He said this even before the FIRST count was finished. I thought it was very odd and inappropriate. Is the EU group backing a recount?

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The Catholic Church: Who? It's a big institution. Cardinals? Bishops? One or two Liberation Theology priests? What do you mean by "the church"? It's still a powerful force, despite the Revolution. But it tends to be divided, as everywhere, with a tiny elite of fascist prelates in powerful positions, and most priests and nuns closer to the people who often act as advocates for the poor. Got any urls on it?

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Thanks for your post! I don't mean to be contentious. I'm just very interested--and of course suspicious of all narrative in our corporate monopoly press.

[nadinbrzezinski]

10. Sorry if I remind you of that

but a fact is a fact is a fact. Look I know many residents of Mexico City, on all sides of the political spectrum, and they agree on that point

That said the coverage from La Jornada IS NOT OUR corporarist press.... that paper is very much LEFT OF the MEXICAN CENTER, which is very much to the left of OUR left.