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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:29 AM
Original message
DLC's Whitman insults, dismisses Liberal blogosphere
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 08:32 AM by iconoclastNYC
"(Left wing bloggers) are an echo chamber that speaks to a hyper-partisan, very liberal slice of the Democratic Party. As of yet, they have not produced any political results. There most celebrated activity was the Dean (2004) presidential campaign. The last time there was not a President Dean."

As quoted on Meet the Press.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=2673080&mesg_id=2673080
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Craig3410 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Key word: DLC.
Pass.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #1
12. "Bullmoose" calls himself an independent, so why does he blog for the DLC?
This tells us more about the DLC than it does about Marshall Wittman, formerly of the Christian Coalition and formerly employed by John McCain.

The corporatist DLC uses Bullmoose to trash the "liberal" wing of our party--the wing that remains true to the core principles of our party and does not give the finger to the middle class.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. That's proof
he's a blowhard disingenous Idiot!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. And what of the DLC who employs him?
Aren't they supposed to be a DEMOCRATIC group, yet here they are feeding press to NBC that insults and dismisses a valuable part of the Democratic coalition?

If you were employed by GE and you publish commentary disparaging GE's customers how long do you think you'd remain employed.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. His
ass is FIRED!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. The DLC fired him?
Really?
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. Nor is there a President Kerry
Nor will there be a President (H) Clinton, Warner, Bayh, Biden, Obama, or anyone else the DLC chooses to shove down our throats. As I've stated many times before, the Progressives have left the building and these guys are shouting "shut up and vote" to . . . no one.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. I agree and disagree.
I agree with your point about DLC candidates. No thanks to all of them.

But I do believe that progressives are still with us or at least we can bring them back into the fold.

What we need to do is get these people to join up with Progressive Democrats of America or DFA or Moveon.

We need to explain how many D.C. Democrats have been bought out and corrupted by the DLC, "The Hamilton Project",
or other right-wing funded "Democratic" think tanks.

I believe Progressives are in fact taking back the party.

In fact I'd argue that the corporatists are trying to figure out a way to create a fake "Progressive" think tank,
in fact they might already have one.

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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
113. Got at "President Talabani" to show for the DLC's efforts! eom
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wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
143. Kerry is not DLC. They were forced to accept him in 2004. n/t
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Cassandra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Doesn't seem to be a President Kerry, either.
I despise Whitman. Any bets that he goes back to the Repubs?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. I wish they'd
take him away.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:39 AM
Response to Original message
6. And the DLC record is????
How many seats lost in 2000 and 2002 and 2004 and how many again in 2006? The thing about the DLC is they don't have and don't want a base. They want to try and be every thing for every body and we all know that is not only impossible but unprincipled as well.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #6
16. Presidential wins in 1992, 1996, 2000, and 2004
...unless you don't believe the elections were stolen in 2000 and 2004. DLC won the Senate back in 1988 and picked up seats in 1998.

You tell US how many seats lost in 2000 and 2002 and 2004 and how many again in 2006? Any evidence it was the DLC?
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. All those wins and so little PROGRESS
Tell me again what's wrong with our party? Oh yeah...it sold out and moved to the right.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:23 AM
Original message
progress is a matter of perspective
But at least you're finally being honest and not denying the wins.

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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. Matter of perspective, yes
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 10:05 AM by iconoclastNYC
If you are Wall Street millionaire Democrat the Clinton years were great. The raping of the middle class continued under Clinton's leadership.

Aside from a few tidbits thrown to liberals Clinton turned his back on the Democratic parties progressive tradition and made nice with the right wing by continueing Reagan/Bush policies.

Sad think about Clinton, he didn't meet a corporate tax break, trade deal, or a merger he didn't like.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #24
27. LOL!
The Strongest Economy in a Generation. Longest Economic Expansion in U.S. History. In February 2000, the United States entered the 107th consecutive month of economic expansion -- the longest economic expansion in history.

21.2 million new jobs were created since 1993, the most jobs ever created under a single Administration -- and more new jobs than Presidents Reagan and Bush created during their three terms. 92 percent (19.4 million) of the new jobs were created in the private sector, the highest percentage in 50 years.

Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Over Three Decades. In the last 12 months, average hourly earnings have increased 3.7 percent -- faster than the rate of inflation. The United States has had five consecutive years of real wage growth -- the longest consecutive increase since the 1960s. Since 1993, real wages are up 6.8 percent, after declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush years.

Unemployment was the lowest Nearly the Lowest in Three Decades.

Highest Homeownership Rate in History.

Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades. The poverty rate has fallen from 15.1 percent in 1993 to 12.7 percent in 1998. That's the lowest poverty rate since 1979 and the largest five-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years (1965-1970). The African-American poverty rate has dropped from 33.1 percent in 1993 to 26.1 percent in 1998 -- the lowest level ever recorded and the largest five-year drop in African-American poverty in more than a quarter century (1967-1972). The poverty rate for Hispanics is at the lowest level since 1979, and dropped to 25.6 percent in 1998.

Largest Five-Year Drop in Child Poverty Rate Since the ‘60s. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, child poverty has declined from 22.7 percent in 1993 to 18.9 percent in 1998 -- the biggest five-year drop in nearly 30 years. The poverty rate for African-American children has fallen from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 36.7 percent in 1998 -- a level that is still too high, but is the lowest level in 20 years and the biggest five-year drop on record. The rate also fell for Hispanic children, from 36.8 percent to 34.4 percent - and is now 6.5 percentage points lower than it was in 1993.

Improved Access to Affordable, Quality Child Care and Early Childhood Programs.

Increased the Minimum Wage.

Enacted Single Largest Investment in Health Care for Children since 1965.

Sounds like just what them fat cat millionaires ordered! LOL!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Name some things HE DID
You are naming some things a solid consumer economy did for the country. Now name something Clinton DID.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I just did
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. We'll have to disgaree.
Mr DLC thinks that Clinton was the BEST PRESIDENT EVER.

Most of the party , and almost every liberal I'VE EVER MET disagrees with you.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #34
39. You must feel good after that snappy comeback! LOL!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. I feel good that you keep kicking my thread.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #41
46. and it always feels good to show people what a total..
illogical subject changer you are when your points keep getting kicked into the ground.
I swear its like arguing with a freeper.
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:42 PM
Response to Reply #41
137. You keep kicking his ass, and that's good too!
:beer:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:56 PM
Response to Reply #137
140. yeah, avoiding questions, changing the subject, screaming "neocon!"
What an ass kicking! LOL!
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 12:58 AM
Response to Reply #140
144. You love it and you know it.
:D
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:25 AM
Response to Reply #144
145. mental exercise for arguing with freepers
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #145
147. What do you and they actually have to argue ABOUT?
:D
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 05:51 AM
Response to Reply #147
149. lots of things
gun control, healthcare...
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
51. Yeah, NAFTA is great progress for large corporations
But not for workers' rights, wages, the environment, etc.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:57 AM
Response to Reply #51
55. Lowest Poverty Rate in Two Decades.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #55
69. minimum wage in the US, lowest point in 50 years
NAFTA also isn't having a positive effect on wages in Mexico.


notes on NAFTA
========

July 20, 2005 | Issue Brief #214
NAFTA's cautionary tale
Recent history suggests CAFTA could lead to further U.S. job displacement1
by Robert E. Scott and David Ratner
http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/ib214

The rise in the U.S. trade deficit with Canada and Mexico through 2004 has caused the displacement of production that supported 1,015,291 U.S. jobs since the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) was signed in 1993. Jobs were displaced in every state and major industry in the United States. Two thirds of those lost jobs were in manufacturing industries. The proposed Dominican Republic-Central American Free Trade Agreement (DR-CAFTA) duplicates the most important elements of NAFTA, and it will only worsen conditions for workers in the United States and throughout the hemisphere (Faux, Campbell, Salas, and Scott 2001). Since NAFTA took effect, the growth of exports supported approximately 1 million U.S. jobs, but the growth of imports displaced domestic production that would have supported 2 million jobs. Consequently, the growth of the U.S. trade deficit with Mexico and Canada caused a net decline in U.S. production that would have supported about 1 million U.S. jobs.

Before adopting an agreement such as DR-CAFTA, it is important to understand the following about NAFTA's effect on U.S. jobs:

* The 1 million job opportunities lost nationwide are distributed among all 50 states and the District of Columbia. Those affected most in terms of total jobs displaced include: California (-123,995), Texas (-72,257), Michigan (-63,148), New York (-51,582), Ohio (-49,886), Illinois ( -47,701), Pennsylvania ( -44,173), Florida (-39,987), Indiana (-35,157), North Carolina ( -34,150), and Georgia (-30,464) (see Appendix Table A-1).

* The 10 hardest-hit states, as a share of total state employment, are: Michigan (-63,148, -1.44%), Indiana (-35,157, -1.19%), Mississippi (-11,630, -1.03%), Tennessee (-25,588, -0.94%), Ohio (-49,886, -0.92%), Rhode Island (-4,482, -0.91%), Wisconsin (-25,403, -0.90%), Arkansas (-10,321, -0.89%), North Carolina (-34,150, -0.89%), and New Hampshire (-5,502, -0.87%) (see Appendix Table A-2).

<more>

======

http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_bp147

November 17, 2003 | EPI Briefing Paper #147

The high price of 'free' trade
NAFTA's failure has cost the United States jobs across the nation

by Robert E. Scott

Since the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) was signed in 1993, the rise in the U.S. trade deficit with Canada and Mexico through 2002 has caused the displacement of production that supported 879,280 U.S. jobs. Most of those lost jobs were high-wage positions in manufacturing industries. The loss of these jobs is just the most visible tip of NAFTA's impact on the U.S. economy. In fact, NAFTA has also contributed to rising income inequality, suppressed real wages for production workers, weakened workers' collective bargaining powers and ability to organize unions, and reduced fringe benefits.

NAFTA is a free trade and investment agreement that provided investors with a unique set of guarantees designed to stimulate foreign direct investment and the movement of factories within the hemisphere, especially from the United States to Canada and Mexico. Furthermore, no protections were contained in the core of the agreement to maintain labor or environmental standards. As a result, NAFTA tilted the economic playing field in favor of investors, and against workers and the environment, resulting in a hemispheric "race to the bottom" in wages and environmental quality.

False promises

Proponents of new trade agreements that build on NAFTA, such as the proposed Free Trade Agreement of the Americas (FTAA), have frequently claimed that such deals create jobs and raise incomes in the United States. When the Senate recently approved President Bush's request for fast-track trade negotiating authority1 for an FTAA, Bush called the bill's passage a "historic moment" that would lead to the creation of more jobs and more sales of U.S. products abroad. Two weeks later at his economic forum in Texas, the president argued, "t is essential that we move aggressively , because trade means jobs. More trade means higher incomes for American workers."

The problem with these statements is that they misrepresent the real effects of trade on the U.S. economy: trade both creates and destroys jobs. Increases in U.S. exports tend to create jobs in this country, but increases in imports tend to reduce jobs because the imports displace goods that otherwise would have been made in the United States by domestic workers.

President Bush's statements—and similar remarks from others in his administration and from members of both major parties in Congress—are based only on the positive effects of exports, ignoring the negative effects of imports. Such arguments are an attempt to hide the costs of new trade deals, in order to boost the reported benefits. These are effectively the same tactics that led to the bankruptcies of Enron, WorldCom, and several other major corporations.

The impact on employment of any change in trade is determined by its effect on the trade balance, the difference between exports and imports. Ignoring imports and counting only exports is like balancing a checkbook by counting only deposits but not withdrawals. The many officials, policy analysts, and business leaders who ignore the negative effects of imports and talk only about the benefits of exports are engaging in false accounting.

NAFTA supporters frequently tout the benefits of exports while remaining silent on the effects of rapid import growth (Scott 2000). Former President George H.W. Bush, whose administration negotiated NAFTA, recently claimed that "two million NAFTA-related jobs have been created in the United States since 1993" (Bush 2002). But any evaluation of the impact of trade on the domestic economy must include the impact of both imports and exports. If the United States exports 1,000 cars to Mexico, many American workers are employed in their production. If, however, the United States imports 1,000 cars from Mexico rather than building them domestically, then a similar number of Americans who would have otherwise been employed in the auto industry will have to find other work.

Another critically important promise made by the promoters of NAFTA was that the United States would benefit because of increased exports to a large and growing consumer market in Mexico. This market, in turn, was to be based on an expansion of the middle class that, it was claimed, would grow rapidly due to the wealth created in Mexico by NAFTA. Thus, most U.S. exports were predicted to be consumer products destined for consumption in Mexico.

In fact, most U.S. exports to Mexico are parts and components that are shipped to Mexico and assembled into final products that are then returned to the United States. The number of products that Mexico assembles and exports—such as refrigerators, TVs, automobiles, and computers—has mushroomed under the NAFTA agreement. Many of these products are produced in the Maquiladora export processing zones in Mexico, where parts enter duty free and are re-exported to the United States in assembled products, with duties paid only on the value added in Mexico. The share of total U.S. exports to Mexico that is represented by Maquiladora imports has risen from 39% of U.S. exports in 1993 to 61% in 2002.2 The number of such plants increased from 2,114 in 1993 to 3,251 in 2002 (INEGI 2003a, 2003b).

Growing trade deficits and job losses

NAFTA's impact in the United States, however, has been often obscured by the "boom-and-bust" cycle that drove domestic consumption, investment, and speculation in the mid- and late 1990s. Between 1994 (when NAFTA was implemented) and 2000, total employment rose rapidly in the United States, causing overall unemployment to fall to record low levels. But unemployment began to rise early in 2001, and 2.4 million jobs were lost in the domestic economy between March 2001 and October 2003 (BLS 2003). These job losses have been primarily concentrated in the manufacturing sector, which has experienced a total decline of 2.4 million jobs since March 2001. As job growth has dried up in the economy, the underlying problems caused by U.S. trade deficits have become much more apparent, especially in manufacturing.

<more>


=========

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199401--.htm

The Clinton Vision: Update
Noam Chomsky
Z Magazine, January, 1994

1. Clinton's Bottom Line

November 17 was a grand day in the career of Bill Clinton, the day when he proved that he is a man of firm principle, and that his "vision" -- the term has become a journalistic reflex -- has real substance. "President Emerges As a Tough Fighter," the New York Times announced on the front page the next day. Washington correspondent R.W. Apple wrote that Clinton had now silenced his detractors, who had scorned him for his apparent willingness to back down on everything he claimed to stand for:

"Mr. Clinton retreated early on Bosnia, on Haiti, on homosexuals in the military, on important elements of his economic plan ; he seemed ready to compromise on all but the most basic elements of his health-care reforms. Critics asked whether he had a bottom line on anything.

On NAFTA, he did, and that question won't be asked much for a while."1

In short, on unimportant matters, involving nothing more than millions of lives, Clinton is a "pragmatist," ready to retreat. But when it comes to responding to the calls of the big money, our hero showed that he has backbone after all.

The importance that the corporate world saw in the NAFTA issue was revealed with some clarity in the final stages. Usually, both the President and the media try to keep their class loyalties somewhat in the background. This time, all bars were down. Particularly striking was the bitter attack on labor for daring to interfere in the political process, understood to be the domain of business power in a well-ordered democracy.

The logic is familiar. When ordinary people enter the political arena, we have a "crisis of democracy"; things are OK, however, when the President is able to "govern the country with the cooperation of a relatively small number of Wall Street lawyers and bankers," as the Eaton Professor of the Science of Government at Harvard (Samuel Huntington) has explained, articulating the vision of democracy propounded by elite opinion for hundreds of years.

Accordingly, corporate lobbying was considered unworthy of mention -- a reasonable decision; one also doesn't report the air we breathe.

President Clinton denounced the "naked pressure" and "real roughshod, muscle-bound tactics" of organized labor, "the raw muscle, the sort of naked pressure that the labor forces have put on." They even resorted to "pleading...based on friendship" and "threatening...based on money and work in the campaign" when they approached their elected representatives. Never would a corporate lobbyist sink that low; those who believe otherwise merely reveal themselves to be "Marxists" or "conspiracy theorists," terms that are the cultivated equivalent of four-letter words or a punch in the nose, a last resort when you can't think of an argument. Front-page stories featured the President's call to Congress "to resist the hardball politics" of the "powerful labor interests." Business was reeling from the onslaught, unable to face the terror of the mob. At the outer limits of dissent, Anthony Lewis berated the "backward, unenlightened" labor movement for the "crude threatening tactics" it employed to influence Congress, motivated by "fear of change and fear of foreigners."

<more>

======

http://www.zmag.org/chomsky/articles/9303-nation-nafta.html

Notes of NAFTA:
"The Masters of Man"

Noam Chomsky
The Nation, March 1993

Throughout history, Adam Smith observed, we find the workings of "the vile maxim of the masters of mankind": "All for ourselves, and nothing for other People." He had few illusions about the consequences. The invisible hand, he wrote, will destroy the possibility of a decent human existence "unless government takes pains to prevent" this outcome, as must be assured in "every improved and civilized society." It will destroy community, the environment and human values generally -- and even the masters themselves, which is why the business classes have regularly called for state intervention to protect them from market forces.

The masters of mankind in Smith's day were the "merchants and manufacturers," who were the "principal architects" of state policy, using their power to bring "dreadful misfortunes" to the vast realms they subjugated and to harm the people of England as well, though their own interests were "most peculiarly attended to." In our day the masters are, increasingly, the supranational corporations and financial institutions that dominate the world economy, including international trade -- a dubious term for a system in which some 40 percent of U.S. trade takes place within companies, centrally managed by the same highly visible hands that control planning, production and investment.

The World Bank reports that protectionist measures of the industrialized countries reduce national income in the South by about twice the amount of official aid to the region -- aid that is itself largely export promotion, most of it directed to richer sectors (less needy, but better consumers). In the past decade, most of the rich countries have increased protectionism, with the Reaganites often leading the way in the crusade against economic liberalism. These practices, along with the programs dictated by the International Monetary Fund and World Bank, have helped double the gap between rich and poor countries since 1960. Resource transfers from the poor to the rich amounted to more than $400 billion from 1982 to 1990, "the equivalent in today's dollars of some six Marshall Plans provided by the South to the North," observes Susan George of the Transnational Institute in Amsterdam; she notes also that commercial banks were protected by transfer of their bad debts to the public sector. As in the case of the S&Ls, and advanced industry generally, "free-market capitalism" is to be risk free for the masters, as fully as can be achieved.

The international class war is reflected in the United States, where real wages have fallen to the level of the mid-1960s. Wage stagnation, extending to the college-educated, changed to sharp decline in the mid-1980s, in part a consequence of the decline in "defense spending," our euphemism for the state industrial policy that allows "private enterprise" to feed at the public trough. More than 17 million workers were unemployed or underemployed by mid-1992, Economic Policy Institute economists Lawrence Mishel and Jared Bernstein report -- a rise of 8 million during the Bush years. Some 75 percent of that is permanent loss of jobs. Of the limited gain in total wealth in the eighties, "70% accrued to the top 1% of income earners, while the bottom lost absolutely," according to M.I.T. economist Rudiger Dornbusch.

Structures of governance have tended to coalesce around economic power. The process continues. In the London Financial Times, James Morgan describes the "de facto world government" that is taking shape in the "new imperial age": the I.M.F., World Bank, Group of 7 industrialized nations, General Agreement on Tariffs and Trade (GATT) and other institutions designed to serve the interests of transnational corporations, banks and investment firms.

<more>

=======

The Zapatista Uprising
excerpted from the book
Profit Over People
by Noam Chomsky
Seven Stories Press, 1999
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ProfitsOverPeople_Chom.html
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Chomsky/ZapatistaPOP_Chom.html

The New Year's Day uprising of Indian peasants in Chiapas readily be understood in this general context. The uprising coincided with the enactment of NAFTA, which the Zapatista army called a "death sentence" for Indians, a gift to the rich that will deepen the divide between narrowly concentrated wealth and mass misery, and destroy what remains of the indigenous society.
The NAFTA connection is partly symbolic; the problems are far deeper. "We are the product of 500 years of struggle," the Zapatistas' declaration of war stated. The struggle today is "for work, land, housing, food, health care, education, independence, freedom, democracy, justice, and peace." "The real background," the vicar-general of the Chiapas diocese added, "is complete marginalization and poverty and the frustration of many years trying to improve the situation."
The Indian peasants are the most aggrieved victims of Mexican government policies. But their distress is widely shared. "Anyone who has the opportunity to be in contact with the millions of Mexicans who live in extreme poverty knows that we are living with a time bomb," Mexican columnist Pilar Valdes observed.
In the past decade of economic reform, the number of people living in extreme poverty in rural areas increased by almost a third. Half the total population lacks resources to meet basic needs, a dramatic increase since 1980. Following International Monetary Fund (IMF)-World Bank prescriptions, agricultural production was shifted to export and animal feeds, benefiting agribusiness, foreign consumers, and affluent sectors in Mexico while malnutrition became a major health problem, agricultural employment declined, productive lands were abandoned, and Mexico began to import massive amounts of food. Real wages in manufacturing fell sharply. Labor's share in gross domestic product, which had risen until the mid- I 970s, has since declined by well over a third. These are standard concomitants of neoliberal reforms. IMF studies show "a strong and consistent pattern of reduction of labor share of income" under the impact of its "stabilization programs" in Latin America, economist Manuel Pastor observes.

<more>


=======

http://www.ratical.org/co-globalize/NAFTA@7/mx.html

April 2001 | EPI Briefing Paper

For a printer-friendly version of this report, download an Acrobat PDF version of this paper.
To view the press release for this report, click here.

NAFTA AT SEVEN
Its impact on workers in all three nations

Jump to a specific report:

* Introduction
* NAFTA’s Hidden Costs: Trade agreement results in job losses, growing inequality, and wage suppression for the United States
* False Promise: Canada in the Free Trade Era
* Online supplement to the U.S. report: NAFTA's impact on the states

The impact of NAFTA on wages and incomes
in Mexico

by Carlos Salas, La Red de Investigadores y Sindicalistas Para Estudios Laborales (RISEL)

Mexico is much changed in the seven years since NAFTA was implemented in 1994. Although Mexico now has a large trade surplus with the U.S., Mexico has also developed a large and growing overall trade deficit with the rest of the world. In fact, Mexico’s net imports from the rest of the world now substantially exceed its net exports to the United States. Official unemployment levels in Mexico are lower now than before NAFTA, but this decline in the official rate simply reflects the absence of unemployment insurance in Mexico. In fact, underemployment and work in low-pay, low-productivity jobs (e.g., unpaid work in family enterprises) actually has grown rapidly since the early 1990s. Furthermore, the normal process of rural-to-urban migration that is typical of developing economies has reversed since the adoption of NAFTA. The rural share of the population increased slightly between 1991 and 1997, as living and working conditions in the cities deteriorated.

Between 1991 and 1998, the share of workers in salaried<1> jobs with benefits fell sharply in Mexico. The compensation of the remaining self-employed workers, who include unpaid family workers as well as small business owners, was well above those of the salaried sector in 1991. By 1998, the incomes of salaried workers had fallen 25%, while those of the self-employed had declined 40%. At that point, the average income of the self-employed was substantially lower than that of the salaried labor force. This reflects the growth of low-income employment such as street vending and unpaid family work (for example, in shops and restaurants). After seven years, NAFTA has not delivered the promised benefits to workers in Mexico, and few if any of the agreement’s stated goals has been attained.

Running hard but falling behind
Despite a quick recovery from the 1995 peso crisis and a peak 7% gross domestic product (GDP) growth rate in 2000 (Figure 2-A), NAFTA still has failed to help most workers in Mexico.

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http://multinationalmonitor.org/hyper/issues/1992/10/mm1092_10.html

Economics
The NAFTA Nightmare
by Bill Day



AMID A STORM OF PROTEST, the leaders of the United States , Mexico and Canada announced on August 12 the conclusion of negotiations over a free trade agreement encompassing the vastly different countries of North America. The Bush administration released a summary of the North American Free Trade Agreement , but declined to release the actual text until it is translated into legal language. The agreement faces perfunctory approval in the Mexican and Canadian legislatures, which are controlled by the same parties which hold those countriesÆ executive positions. In the United States, however, the agreement must be ratified by the Democratic controlled Congress, where it is sure to be the subject of heated debate.

While the administration and industry groups boast that NAFTA will create jobs and prosperity, unions, environmental groups and consumer advocates predict it could result in increased pollution, lost jobs, lower wages and contaminated food. Consumer advocate Ralph Nader says that NAFTA was created "of the Du Ponts, for the General Motors, and by the Exxons," benefitting multinational corporations at the expense of labor, health, safety and environmental standards in all three signatory countries.

"We oppose it," says Burnie Bond, a spokesperson for the AFL-CIO. "The agreement does not have adequate protection for labor rights, worker health and safety or the environment." The AFL-CIO estimates that if Congress approves NAFTA, 73 percent of U.S. workers will suffer annual wage losses of approximately $1,000 and 500,000 to 600,000 workers will lose their jobs to lower-paid Mexican workers over 10 years.

In sharp contrast, industry representatives express enthusiasm for the proposed agreement. Howard Lewis, a spokesperson for the National Association of Manufacturers (NAM), says, "From what we know about it, it appears to be an impressive agreement that will be beneficial to many U.S. companies."

Costing jobs

The central element in the congressional debate over NAFTA is likely to be its effect on employment. Critics of the agreement contend it will cost hundreds of thousands of U.S. jobs, as U.S. businesses shift production from the United States to low-wage Mexico. The United States Trade Representative (USTR) concedes that some U.S. workers will be displaced as a result of the agreement, but estimates that between 600,000 and one million new jobs will be created by exports to Mexico. The Washington, D.C.- based Economic Policy Institute (EPI), in a recent report authored by Jeff Faux and Thea Lee, estimates NAFTA will cost half a million U.S. jobs.

The authors further predict that NAFTA will encourage U.S. industry to move production to Mexico to take advantage of low wage rates and lax industry regulation. As a result, the report says, U.S. workers will lose jobs, or be forced to accept lower wages to compete with cheap Mexican labor. Faux and Lee cite 1990 Department of Labor statistics which list the hourly wage for manufacturing workers as $14.83 in the United States, $15.94 in Canada and $1.85 in Mexico.

"I think that this version of NAFTA will be very hard on working class people," Lee says. She predicts that U.S. workers in several types of industry will suffer: those in industries already moving to Mexico, such as automobiles and auto parts, consumer electronics and apparel, who will be subjected to both job and wage losses; workers employed at small- and medium-sized businesses that cannot relocate and will become unable to compete with corporations in Mexico; and workers in small service businesses, like restaurants, which will undergo hardship when large plants move out of their neighborhoods. Finally, Lee argues, growers of products currently protected by high tariffs, such as winter fruits and vegetables, cotton and peanuts, will suffer when the tariffs are removed by NAFTA.

Faux and Lee point out that blue-collar workers who lose their jobs are unlikely to gain access to the high-skill, high-wage jobs that might be created by increased exports to Mexico.

Lewis counters that U.S. labor must adjust to inevitable changes in the job market. "The era of the low-skill, high-pay job is over," he says, "and weÆd better adjust to it. ThatÆs not the way the competition is going at this point in the game." Lewis recommends that the way to "adjust" is not to regulate trade, but to invest in education and training.

Faux and Lee assert that CanadaÆs loss of 461,000 manufacturing jobs from June 1989 to October 1991 after adoption of the U.S.-Canada trade agreement is a portent of the likely outcome of the expanded free trade agreement with Mexico. But Malcolm McKechnie, press attache at the Canadian Embassy in Washington, attributes the loss of jobs to the recession, noting that both exports and the Canadian trade balance have increased since the agreement.

Critics of the agreement argue that corporate flight to Mexico will not benefit Mexico or Mexican workers, since corporations will be moving South precisely to take advantage of the countryÆs low wages, worker rights, safety and environmental standards. NAFTA-induced investments will replicate the record of the string of maquiladoras (foreign-owned plants in Mexico which export to the United States) on the U.S.-Mexican border, where "there is no floor on how low you push wages and no limit on how badly you abuse the environment."

"NAFTA is an extension of the maquiladora production system to the entire Mexican economy," Lee says. "The point of the maquiladora is to import parts from the United States, assemble them with Mexican labor and export them to the United States." According to Lee, because goods produced in the maquiladoras are sold in the United States, corporations have no incentive to pay a living wage. "Very few firms producing in the maquiladoras have any intention of selling their goods to the workers who work there. So it doesnÆt matter if you pay 60 cents an hour, because you know that person isnÆt going to buy the automobile or refrigerator or bra that youÆre producing. YouÆve ruptured the connection between production and consumption."

Bond agrees that NAFTA will only further the maltreatment of Mexican workers. "The agreement doesnÆt do anything to encourage Mexican wage levels to rise. ... If anything, investments of hundreds of millions of dollars along the border has lowered the standard of living," she says. "There is nothing in this agreement, such as adequate labor standards, to offset the tendency of American corporations to exploit Mexican workers."

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Published on Tuesday, April 25, 2006 by CommonDreams.org
Immigration Flood Unleashed by NAFTA's Disastrous Impact on Mexican Economy
by Roger Bybee and Carolyn Winter
http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0425-30.htm

The recent ferment on immigration policy has been so narrow that it has excluded the real issue: family-sustaining wages for workers both north and south of the border. The role of the North American Free Trade Agreement and misnamed 'free trade' has been scarcely mentioned in the increasingly bitter debate over the fate of America's 11 to 12 million illegal aliens.

NAFTA was sold to the American public as the magic formula that would improve the American economy at the same time it would raise up the impoverished Mexican economy. The time has come to look at the failures of this type of trade agreement before we engage in more and lower the economic prospects of all workers affected.

While there has been some media coverage of NAFTA's ruinous impact on US industrial communities, there has been even less media attention paid to its catastrophic effects in Mexico:

* NAFTA, by permitting heavily-subsidized US corn and other agri-business products to compete with small Mexican farmers, has driven the Mexican farmer off the land due to low-priced imports of US corn and other agricultural products. Some 2 million Mexicans have been forced out of agriculture, and many of those that remain are living in desperate poverty. These people are among those that cross the border to feed their families. (Meanwhile, corn-based tortilla prices climbed by 50%. No wonder many so Mexican peasants have called NAFTA their 'death warrant.'
* NAFTA's service-sector rules allowed big firms like Wal-Mart to enter the Mexican market and, selling low-priced goods made by ultra-cheap labor in China, to displace locally-based shoe, toy, and candy firms. An estimated 28,000 small and medium-sized Mexican businesses have been eliminated.
* Wages along the Mexican border have actually been driven down by about 25% since NAFTA, reported a Carnegie Endowment study. An over-supply of workers, combined with the crushing of union organizing drives as government policy, has resulted in sweatshop pay running sweatshops along the border where wages typically run 60 cents to $1 an hour.

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http://www.siliconv.com/trade/tradepapers/naftaafta.html

NAFTA 3 1/2 Years Afta
by Jim Callis & Valli Sharpe-Geisler


The Bush administration promised "jobs, jobs, jobs". The Clinton administration promised improved environmental and working standards. Now, after three and a half years of NAFTA the people of Canada, Mexico and the U.S. suffer from the broken promises, while the self-interested proponents of NAFTA, who invested millions in campaign contributions, reap the benefits.

NAFTA Overview:

The North American Free Trade Agreement, or NAFTA, has been portrayed as a simple agreement to lower tariffs and increase trade between the U.S., Canada and Mexico. In fact, the main features of NAFTA establish a comprehensive set of rules that guarantees to multinational manufacturers that their plants in these countries will be protected and that they will have unlimited, free access to the U.S. retail markets for their products. NAFTA guarantees an investors private right of action against a country, state or locality. These rules are enforced by a multinational Secretariat with authority to impose large financial sanctions to force member countries to comply even when federal or state laws differ. It is ironic that this supernational regulation of U.S. commerce has been introduced in the name of "Free Trade". NAFTA has led to a sharply increased flight of manufacturing from the U.S. to Mexico where there is an abundance of capable workers who learn very rapidly and whose wages were only one-seventh of the wages of American workers doing the same job.


NAFTA Results:

The effects of NAFTA on the U.S. have been almost totally negative. The results include a significant loss in U.S. manufacturing capability and tax base. Manufacturers have also been able to negotiate give - backs in both direct wages and benefits from U.S. workers under the threat of expatriating their plant to Mexico. Today, a high school graduate with 5 years experience earns 27% less than his counterpart did in 1979. When experienced manufacturing workers making $17/hr loose their job, they typically are only able to get a service industry job at $11/hr. Since this isn't enough to keep a household afloat a second job is then needed. While in 1975 the compensation of U.S production workers was the highest in the world, today the average U.S. total compensation of about $17/hr is lower than that of Germany, Japan and others. The first major result of the so- called "Free Trade" movement has been to drive down wages even in a period in which productivity and corporate profits have risen greatly.


Summary of NAFTA's Impact on the United States

* MANUFACTURING LOSSES Since its passage an average of one manufacturing plant per day has closed due to NAFTA. * LOWER WAGES -- Since the FTA with Canada in 1988, the average real wages in all three NAFTA countries has declined.

* LOST U.S. JOBS: As of February 19, 1997, the Labor Department has certified that 109,384 workers have qualified for assistance under the one narrow NAFTA unemployment program, NAFTA-TAA. Total NAFTA job loss is estimated at over 600,000.

* FOOD SAFETY STANDARDS: In theory the US could be fined for enforcing our own food safety federal law, if in direct conflict with NAFTA's rules. After about 150 Michigan school children come down with symptoms of the hepatitis A mild liver infection from Mexican-grown strawberries, the impact of not having the freedom to set and enforce our own food safety standard became obvious.

* MERCHANDISE TRADE DEFICIT: The U.S. Bureau of the Census published trade figures* show the combined projected 1996 Canada/Mexico trade deficit to be $41 billion. Under NAFTA, a 1993 $1.7 billion trade surplus with Mexico turned into a massive trade deficit, while at the same time Japan and the European Union have maintained a trade surplus with Mexico.

* PESO BAILOUT: When the strains associated with NAFTA resulted in the collapse in the exchange value of the peso, this rate went to 1/10th of the wages of their U.S. counterparts.

* ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION to the U.S. from Mexico has soared since NAFTA. In 1994 the Border Patrol reported an increase of 30% in illegal entry activity. In 1995 many border areas reported an additional 30% in illegal entries. The principal cause of the increase is the economic dislocations in Mexico due to NAFTA.

* ENVIRONMENTAL: Dramatically worse environmental conditions along the U.S.-Mexico border where recent statistics show the number of children born with birth defects is at 3 times the national average.

* TRUCKING: Over-weighted and poorly maintained trucks make our highways less safe.

* DRUGS: Mexico is now regarded as the drug capital of the Western world. Many of the companies privatized by Salinas were purchased by Mexican drug lords. Mexican gangs now control the cocaine trade and also produce and distribute to the U.S. the methamphetamines which are replacing cocaine in many American areas.


U-Turn Exports:

The NAFTA Lobby points to the strong increase in goods exported to Mexico as proof of the benefits of NAFTA to the U.S. The facts are that only 7% of the goods imported by Mexico in 1995 were consumer goods purchased by Mexicans.These were more than 20% below the pre-NAFTA levels. In fact, 81% of all Mexican 1995 imports were "intermediate goods" the bulk of which were exported after further processing. The balance of Mexican imports were capital goods being used to expand Mexican production capability. These of course will lead to further trade losses in future years. Thus the surge in exports to Mexico are not the beneficial consumer sales the NAFTA Lobby promised, but rather the flow of "U-Turn" parts and plant equipment which was formerly the substance of U.S. based manufacturing. That is, the great export surge represents not an increased in our cash sales, but a loss of U.S. jobs and manufacturing capability. We have a phrase describing this type of surge in exports; ..... " A GIANT SUCKING SOUND ".


NAFTA and Mexico:

While the effects of NAFTA on the United States seem drastic, the effects on Mexico have actually been much more severe. The strains placed on Mexico's monetary system by the need to borrow money for NAFTA's industrial expansion and the political necessity to maintain the illusion of a bustling Mexican economy prior to the GATT vote in the U.S. Congress led to the peso debacle. The results have been devastating to the Mexican people.


Summary of NAFTA's Impact on Mexico

* ECONOMIC DEPRESSION: Since NAFTA, Mexico has fallen into its worst depression since the 1930s. Domestic business loans have prohibitive interests rates exceeding 50% in many cases.

* UNEMPLOYMENT: Since NAFTA, Mexican unemployment has grown by two million.

* BUSINESS FAILURES: Over 28,000 Mexican business have failed since NAFTA.

* LOWER WAGES: The real wages of Mexican workers have fallen by over 1/3 since the passage of NAFTA.

* EXTREME POVERTY: The number of Mexicans considered to be extremely poor has increased from 31% in 1993 to 50% in 1996.

* AGRICULTURE: The huge imports of grains from the U.S. and Canada have driven close to a million Mexican farmers from their lands. NAFTA's passage triggered the revolt in Chiapas.

* EXTERNAL DEBT: The total external debt of Mexico, which must be repaid in hard currencies, has grown from $163 Billion to over $175 Billion in spite of harsh economic measures. Independent economists in both Mexico and other countries believe that Mexico will be forced to "restructure" this debt with at least partial default.

* BORDER REGION POLLUTION: The pollution of the Border region produced by the growth in the number of maquiladora factories spawned by NAFTA has become dangerously worse. The incidence of birth defects and polluted water borne diseases such as dysentery, cholera and hepatitis is the highest in North America.


Summary of NAFTA's Impact on Mexico

During the 1992 election, Clinton pledged to implement NAFTA only after amending the agreement to ensure the protection of the environment and labor standards. However, these were implemented in the form of sham Secretariats which had no enforcement powers and whose objectives are routinely ignored by both corporations and government officials. Clinton's assurances to the contrary, the Maquiladoras continue to be supplied with a labor force which averages less in wages than their counterparts in domestic Mexican factories and who are prevented from joining independent unions.

The NADBank was touted as the means of providing leveraged funding for several of the $20 billions the environmentalists estimated were required to bring water and air quality to minimum health standards in the Border region. While originally adopted as a means of bartering for the votes of Hispanic and environmentalist legislators, the NADbank was then touted as the key mechanism for funding a desparately needed border cleanup that never happened. In fact not until the specter of the 1997 Congressional votes approached did NADbank make any loans at all.

April Fools Day Announcement NO Joke:

In April about 150 Michigan schoolchildren come down with symptoms of the hepatitis A mild liver infection. Officials said that schoolchildren in six states may have been exposed after being served Mexican-grown berries believed tainted with the virus. A food processor in San Diego bought strawberries from Mexico and sold them to the school districts.

Federal law prohibits any school district from buying any food not produced in the U.S. The interesting thing is that this law is in direct conflict with NAFTA's rules. In theory the US could be fined for enforcing our own food safety federal law.

Who are the beneficiaries of NAFTA?:

The most notable are the multinational corporations of all three NAFTA countries whose profits and stock values have soared while the cross border production has cut costs. These members of the U.S. Business Roundtable were the same multi-national corporations who formed USA*NAFTA who, working with the group of Mexican corporations called COECE, were the main business groups funding the NAFTA lobbying effort.

The benefits of NAFTA are not limited to North American companies. The number of Maquiladoras owned by Asian companies has tripled since the passage of NAFTA. Thus Mexico, while having no domestic TV industry, has become the world's largest exporter of TV sets, courtesy of the Japanese plants many of which are centered near Tijuana.

Conclusions:

The problems which NAFTA has inflicted on the people of both the United States and Mexico are severe and traceable to basic flaws in the agreement itself. The major flaws involve the guarantees protecting multinational plant operators (including "National Treatment") in a Mexico in which wages are controlled by government "Pacts" to levels far below those of U.S. workers. Maquiladora wages as low as $5 per day are rationalized as "necessary" to prevent manufacturing flight to even lower wage Central America countries and to control inflation. This in turn helps to drag down U.S. wages and further accelerates the transfer of U.S. plants to Mexico where the number of workers in all Maquiladoras now exceeds one million. We must resolve not to form the close economic associations (of the type that are in NAFTA) with other countries until the labor standards of those countries have been raised. Our trade policy should be aimed at raising the labor standards of our trading partners, not degrading our own. In the formation of the European Union, strict requirements for comparable standards for new members were imposed. These included a prescription that new members must first achieve a GDP per capita equal to at least half that of the average of the existing members. This and similar conditions on infrastructure meant that the entry of countries such as Spain and Greece was delayed for more than a decade while the requirements were met. In the end, the goal of our trade policy must be to improve the condition of all of the people, not to drag our labor standards down in a "race to the bottom". If this means that we must put additional trade constraints on imports from other low wage countries until they too raise their labor standards, then that is our indicated course.

The Clinton Adminstration gave Americans their assurances that NAFTA would include multinational Secretariats which provided for the "upward harmonization" of Labor and Environmental standards of the member countries. In addition, the NADBank was touted as providing funding for the critically needed cleanup of the poisoned Border water systems. All three of these promises have been revealed as transparent shams. "Dirty" U.S. industries charged with toxic waste violations in the U.S.have simply fled to Mexico where the enforcement of these regulations was sporadic or non-existent. NADBank provided no funding at all for badly needed water treatment projects through the first two years of its existence. The Labor Secretariat dismissed two clear cases of Maquiladora owners violating labor standards by claiming it had no jurisdiction. An unmistakable signal that they would do nothing to relieve the suppression of labor standards in Mexico.

It is no longer possible to believe in promises to correct the serious failings of NAFTA after the people's representatives have approved them. We must demand that the corrections be made before the FTAs are approved. At a minimum we should demand that no further extensions of NAFTA to new regions are approved until the flaws which have produced such disastrous consequences are proven to have been fixed.

Stop "Fast Track"! Don't expand NAFTA, Fix it! (Click here to see Action Plan)
http://www2.siliconv.com/siliconv/trade/actionplan.html


========

AlterNet
Blame NAFTA
By David Morris, AlterNet
Posted on April 13, 2006, Printed on May 28, 2006
http://www.alternet.org/story/34768/

The debate about illegal immigration rarely mentions NAFTA. That's regrettable, since the flood of undocumented Mexicans in 2006 empirically challenges the economic philosophy that guided NAFTA's design.

The slogan of those who championed a North American Free Trade Agreement was, "Trade, not aid." NAFTA would solve our problems, they insisted, with little or no transfer of funds from richer Canadians and Americans to poorer Mexicans. By raising Mexican living standards and wage levels, Attorney General Janet Reno predicted NAFTA would reduce illegal immigration by up to two-thirds in six years. "NAFTA is our best hope for reducing illegal migration in the long haul," Reno declared in 1994. "If it fails, effective immigration control will become impossible."

Well, NAFTA succeeded, at least on its own terms. As Jaime Serra Puche, Mexico's former trade minister and chief NAFTA negotiator maintained in 2004, "When you look at NAFTA in terms of what NAFTA was made for, which were trade flows, investment flows, and in general technological transfer and so on, you can say that NAFTA has been a successful enterprise."

Trade volume has soared, from about 30 percent of Mexico's Gross Domestic Product in 1990, to about 55 percent in 2005. Foreign investment has increased by over 225 percent. Yes. When you look at NAFTA in terms of what NAFTA was intended to do, based on what those who wrote it said it was intended to do, it has been a smashing success.

At this point bringing up an old medical adage might be appropriate: "The surgery was successful, but the patient died." NAFTA achieved its intended goals. But the flood of illegal immigration is up, and the standard of living of the average Mexican is down.

Real wages for most Mexicans are lower than when NAFTA took effect. And Mexican wages are diverging from, rather than converging with U.S. wages, despite the fact that Mexican worker productivity has increased dramatically. From 1993 to 2003, worker productivity rose by 60 percent. In the same period, real wages declined by 5 percent.

As NAFTA intended, Mexico has become an export-dependent economy. But this has not benefited most Mexicans. Sandra Polaski of the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace points out that Mexican manufacturing is increasingly based on a production model in which component parts are imported, then processed or assembled and then reexported. In the maquiladora sector, which accounts for most exports, 97 percent of components are imported; only 3 percent are produced in Mexico. The spillover effect of such operations on the broader economy is very limited.

Ironically, one could argue that illegal migration is the only thing saving Mexico from the ravages of NAFTA and preventing it from collapsing into economic and social chaos.

Illegal migration serves as an important safety valve. In the past 10 years, Mexico's working age population increased by a little over 1 million per year, but the number of jobs expanded by only half as much. The annual exodus of 500,000 to 1 million Mexicans keeps unemployment to at least manageable levels.

Migration serves another even more important salutary function: national financial safety net. In 2005, Mexicans in the United States remitted some $20 billion home, about 3 percent of Mexico's national income. Remittances now exceed tourism, oil and the maquiladoras as the country's top single source of foreign exchange.

NAFTA boasted that trade, not aid, would boost the lot of Mexico and Mexicans. But the only thing that has kept the wolf from Mexico's door is aid from Mexicans living in the United States, not trade.

It didn't have to be this way. The European Union approached economic integration from a very different philosophical orientation and has produced dramatically different results. "The EU realized from the beginning that you can't have a community unless you lift the poorest up," notes Robert Pastor, director of the Center for North American Studies at American University in Washington and President Jimmy Carter's former national security advisor.

Europeans realized that the flow of migrants increases when the income gap between countries widens. As it moved toward a common market, the European Union invested hundred of billions of dollars in its poorer countries to improve their economies, reduce intra-European tensions between farmers and workers, and decrease internal migration. This massive investment enabled the EU's four poorest members -- Greece, Ireland, Portugal and Spain -- to boost their per capita GDP from 65 percent of the overall EU average in l986 to 78 percent in l999 and even higher today.

Raul Hinojosa, director of the North American Immigration and Development Center at the University of California, Los Angeles, instructively notes that 40 years ago Mexico and Spain were at the same economic level. He estimates the EU's special funds added 2 percent to Spain's annual GDP growth.

Unlike Americans, Europeans knew that both trade and aid are needed to make economic integration work. I would add only one further ingredient to this recipe for success: internally generated development. Sustainable economic development comes from within, from expanding internal markets and internal production that can satisfy those markets. Sustainable economic development comes from strengthening, not weakening, local and regional trade networks. And this in turn depends on strengthening and not weakening, local and regional social networks. People don't leave their communities, their friends, their families and their cultures because they want to. They leave when they have to.

NAFTA's designers promised it would keep Mexicans at home. Yet its very objectives undermined that possibility. Now leaders in all three countries are trying to pick up the pieces. One hopes they will use this opportunity to revisit their original premise and model as well.

David Morris is co-founder and vice president of the Institute for Local Self Reliance in Minneapolis, Minn., and director of its New Rules project.
© 2006 Independent Media Institute. All rights reserved.
View this story online at: http://www.alternet.org/story/34768/
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. raised the US minimum wage, cut taxes on 15 million low-income families
and made tax cuts available to 90 percent of small businesses, while raising taxes on the wealthiest taxpayers.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #70
72. sources and numbers please
By how much were those taxes changed? How much were taxes raised on the wealthiest?

The income of the wealthiest increased up to 500% during the past decades - raising taxes on them for a bit will hardly make any difference.


"What went wrong"
Paul Krugman
rtsp://real.dialnsa.edu/REAL_BEARD/spring2003_events/schwartz.rm (realplayer)

.. If we are polarized country politically it might well be at least in part is because we are polarized country economically. What has been happening is a extraordinary pulling apart of the income distribution. Traditionally people look at income distribution by "quintiles", by blocks of 20%. But that is not where the action is. It is not in the top 10%, it is not even in the top 5%.

To really see what is going on you need to look at the top 1%, the top 0.1% and the top 0.01%. Then you discover that there has been an explosion of income on the very top of the scale:

top 1%
1970 9%
2000 22%

top 0.1%
1970 2.8%
2000 11%

top 0.01%
1970 1%
2000 5%
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:43 PM
Response to Reply #72
77. typical you would zero in on raising the taxes on the rich
But anyway - from the Wall Street Journal, admitting Clinton's tax policy was a winner:


http://www.kellysite.net/taxes.html
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #77
80. typical that you'd find that typical
I focus on it because i think income- and possibly more importantly capital-distribution is one of the most absurd phenomena of this time.

The articles don't say by how much taxes were raised.

Besides, income is hardly relevant for the top 1%. Steve Job and the owners of google make $1 per year. I guess that doesn't get taxed much, nor does their capital - which is of such quantity that they don't need any income. Just to put things in perspective.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. I think the fact that Clinton LOWERED taxes on the lower class...
...is infinitely more important than the percentage of the wealthy who had their taxes raised. Obviously we have a differing opinion.
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rman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. In the US 50% of wealth is owned by 1% of the population
(or thereabout)

Fair progressive taxes would make an enormous difference in the amount of funds available for spending on the common good. The top 1% can be taxed 50% and still be filthy rich. They're not creating many jobs anyway, and those they do create are more like slavery than like a decent job. "Trickle Down" is a proven failure.
Of course there's no reason to also decrease taxes on the lower incomes.
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #69
92. Outstanding post1 clinton sold workers out with NAFTA
IN true DLC form, he sold out everyone but the big boys.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #69
124. An activist buddy of mine was detailing the displaced Mexican farmers
...who lost their business due to NAFTA while we were at an activist meeting. Last night on Cspan I was watching Rep Marcy Kaptur explain how they wanted funds set up to aid displaced farmers, but the fast-track process would not allow them to get the funds allocated. I have been trying to figure out how that related to immigration to the US. You posted the links I'd been looking for. The one explained that the EU actually set up funds like that and it did work. thanks
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #55
90. And you accues ME of changing the subject! Rich!!
Someone talks about NAFTA and you change the subject to....poverty..... interesting.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #90
93. once again, you're guilty of not following the flow of a conversation...
...before you butt in.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #93
94. LOL
Yes, yes.... lash me with a cat-o-nine tails.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #94
97. no, thanks.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. self delete - dupe
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 09:24 AM by wyldwolf


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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #16
36. Congress was lost using their tactics, wyldwolf.
Play nice, don't make waves, go along to get along. And look the hell where we are today.

Bush has his agenda, we helped him get it.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:53 AM
Response to Reply #36
42. For example?
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 09:54 AM by wyldwolf
Now, I can show you real world documentation that you're wrong, but since you made the statement you did, show me some evidence of it.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #42
43. What a bunch of bull.
Notice he doesn't even take the time to name these two boogeymen liberal bills.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. Notice you and MF don't even take the time to back up your bogus claim
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 10:10 AM by wyldwolf
But the anti-DLCers never do. You just throw it out there and hope it sticks.

But would you like the quartetly explantion? I might be a bit over your head.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #47
53. It is still happening.
The DCCC is picking candidates, insisting on the agenda, having them toe the line. They are doing it all over Florida, and all kinds of races everywhere. They are taking 3 Floridians, totally inexperienced, in for training (SecureUS, which is Jane Harman's PAC and the Third Way, which is the Clinton's baby)....and they will toe the line.

The DSCC under Schumer picks anti-choice candidates and tells the media we women will understand.

The candidates hand-picked and trained this way tolerate no input from the people, grassroots, whatever you want to call them. They have a set agenda, and it does not allow for deviation.

I think it is really good the way you talk down to people here. It almost sounds like the way Wittmann does it. Or Al From. It is meant to anger us, and it truly does.

But you see, wyldwolf, it is meant to anger us and drive us away, but it is having the opposite effect. The war showed us what our party had become under the DLC/Third Way/PPI/and if you will, Clintonian, method.

And guess what, we were mad. But we were not driven away. We stayed to change things. I know your next response would be that this is not the DLC doing this....well, yes indeedy it is. Hillary took her stand with them. Rahm is part of who the Clintons are....I have not figured Schumer out completely yet, but his hand-picking and demands are equally wrong.

Keep being insulting to us, keep talking down to us. It helps our cause greatly.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #53
54. It is still happening
You throw out a bomb, won't back it up, then change the subject.
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pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #47
96. So are you trying to claim that Democrats control congress
today? Everyone knows they don't. Why? The DLC ruined the party.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #96
99. wherever did you get THAT idea?
claim that Democrats control congress today? Everyone knows they don't. Why? The DLC ruined the party.

There's that bogus unsubstantiated claim again.


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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
56. Two questions
1. What is the DLC position on the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004? The DLC web site has no position or proposals as far as I can tell. Since you are more familiar with the DLC web site, perhaps you can link their specific proposals for election reform.

2. Why does DLCer Whitmann call his blog "Bull Moose", with a prominent photo of Republican Teddy Roosevelt on the main page? Is the DLC planning a third party run, in case the DLC candidates lose in the primaries?

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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #16
83. Thank you, wyldwolf!
It's so nice to get a proper history lesson from someone on DU for a change.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #83
101. anytime!
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Fear is an ugly thing.
"very liberal slice of the Democratic Party"

Well, fucking DUH. Hey DLC, have the Repukes scared you off the "liberal" tag, too? I'm fucking PROUD of being a liberal!

"The last time there was not a President Dean."

Nor a DLC President. :eyes:

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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:44 AM
Response to Original message
10. DLC does it again...
f*ck all us gawddamned Liberals. These people need to be stomped out once and for all.

TC
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Le Taz Hot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. Kicky Poo
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. he's right, of course.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:17 AM
Response to Reply #15
17. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
22. why divert from the topic. He's right when he says...
"echo chamber that speaks to a hyper-partisan, very liberal slice of the Democratic Party. As of yet, they have not produced any political results. There most celebrated activity was the Dean (2004) presidential campaign. The last time there was not a President Dean."
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:38 AM
Response to Reply #22
25. The topic is Whitman
Why redirect from my question? Afraid to show your true stripes?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #25
28. no, the topic is what he said in the OP
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 09:42 AM by wyldwolf
See?

"DLC's Whitman insults, dismisses Liberal blogosphere"
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #28
33. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:55 AM
Response to Reply #33
44. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #44
58. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #58
59. when you can't speak to the fact, personal attack!
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 12:01 PM by wyldwolf
You sound like that guard in StarWars "You Rebel slime!" LOL!
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
63. Here's DLC and progressive melded into one:
"And that's the difference in this election. They're for the powerful, and we're for the people.
Big tobacco, big oil, the big polluters, the pharmaceutical companies, the HMO's. Sometimes you have to be willing to stand up and say no - so families can have a better life."

-Al Gore, convention speech, August 2000.

Gore was associated with the DLC back in 2000. Yet he slammed the causers of misery for the average American and his poll number soared up 21%. From 10 points behind Bush to 11 points ahead.

Is Gore a "closet conservative" or did he just misplace the DLC playbook that night?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. Gore has given us no evidence
...that he ever broke ranks ideologically with the DLC.

You post is based on the premise that the DLC is for the "powerful... Big tobacco, big oil, the big polluters, the pharmaceutical companies, the HMO's.." any more than any other Democrats.
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SOS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Lieberman and Bayh gave us the evidence
"DLC politicos blamed former Vice President Al Gore's defeat in 2000 on his use of the populist theme of the "people versus the powerful." Gore's vice presidential candidate, Sen. Joseph Lieberman (D-CT), said that Gore's "economic populism stuff 'was not the New Democrat approach. It was not the pro-growth approach. It made it more difficult for us to gain the support of middle-class, independent voters who don't see America as...us versus them.'" Echoed Sen. Evan Bayh (D-IN), "I think the strategy was wrong".

Two top DLCers one the record stating that Gore's "people vs. the powerful" message was a failure, despite clear polling evidence to the contrary.

And look who purchased seats on the DLC Board of Advisors, Roundtable and Executive Council:

"For $5,000, 180 companies, lobbying firms, and individuals found themselves on the DLC's board of advisers, including British Petroleum, Boeing, Bristol-Myers Squibb, Coca-Cola, Dell, Eli Lilly, Federal Express, Glaxo Wellcome, Intel, Motorola, U.S. Tobacco, Union Carbide, and Xerox, along with trade associations ranging from the American Association of Health Plans to the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America. For $10,000, another 85 corporations signed on as the DLC's policy roundtable, including AOL, Blue Cross Blue Shield, Citigroup, Dow, GE, IBM, Oracle, UBS PacifiCare, PaineWebber, Pfizer, Pharmacia and Upjohn, and TRW.

And for $25,000, 28 giant companies found their way onto the DLC's executive council, including Aetna, AT&T, American Airlines, AIG, BellSouth, Chevron, DuPont, Enron, IBM, Merck and Company, Microsoft, Philip Morris, Texaco, and Verizon Communications."





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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. Gore was Clinton's point man on NAFTA and Welfare reform
During the 2000 election, he agreed with Bush on faith based initiatives.

Has Gore backtracked? Provide a link.

What many fail to realize is that it is perfectly correct and legitimate to critique a campaign. A critique, I might add, I agree with. Gore ran away from Clinton's economic record.

Did you Koch Industries donated heavily to Howard Dean's campaign? So did News Corp (FOX News.)

Point is, Gore has not publically broke with the DLC on ideological grounds and anything 'dasterdly' you can point to the DLC for doing, most other Democrats have done as well.
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Ken Burch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-15-06 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #64
150. Being a "pro-business" Democrat
means being a Democrat who puts the interests of corporations before the interests of workers, the poor, and the environment. It means thinking that, when it comes down to it, the rich should have more power than the poor. It sure as hell can't mean anything else.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #63
85. Oh that old canard...Gore was DLC, ergo DLC is GOOD! Vomit.
People like Gore have turned away from the DLC becuase the know the DLC is bad for the party. People like Gore realize that they created a monster and they walked away from it.

From "How the DLC Does It by How the DLC Does It, By Robert Dreyfuss:

During the last months of the 2000 presidential election, however, it must have seemed to the DLC that Gore and Lieberman, ur–New Democrats both, had crossed back to the other shore. Abandoning the DLC's message almost entirely, they scrambled to look like plain, old-fashioned Democrats in an awkward, faux-populist "people versus the powerful" campaign that sought to energize the party's working-class and lower-middle-class base. The DLC's elation at the selection of its chairman as the running mate for one of its founders turned to dismay during the Democratic convention last August, as Gore lurched left.
"I listened to Gore's speech at the convention with incredulity," says William Galston, a longtime DLCer who served as domestic policy adviser to President Clinton and who is currently a special consultant for Blueprint. Galston was the Gore campaign's representative to the Democratic platform committee, working alongside From and Elaine Kamarck, another veteran DLC strategist, who chaired the committee. Galston had heard rumors on the eve of Gore's speech that it would represent a shift but hadn't been otherwise warned. "From the convention on, I had essentially no input into the campaign," he says.

Also left with sharply reduced influence was From, who recalls with resignation his inability to bring the Gore-Lieberman ticket home to its New Democrat roots. "Once Joe got on the ticket, I worked mostly through him," says From, ticking off the names of campaign staffers through whom he tried to reach Gore. "I talked to Shrum, Greenberg, Eskew, and Tad Devine," he says. "I did a memo to Gore. I actually gave him a game plan to try to contain the populism in a way that would do the least damage."

After his populist turn, Gore surged in the polls in August and early September, and many analysts credited his fiery attacks on pharmaceutical companies, HMOs and health insurers, Big Oil, and George W. Bush's tax cuts for the rich. "When I came on in July, Gore was already beginning to move in a populist direction," says Stan Greenberg, Gore's pollster for the last few months of the campaign. Brought in to replace Mark Penn, the chief pollster for both Clinton and the DLC, Greenberg helped move Gore to the left, targeting the candidate's message to recapture white working-class voters in the $30,000-to-$50,000 income range. On the ground, the AFL-CIO, the NAACP, and other components of the Old Democrats' traditional voter base--organized labor, African Americans, Hispanics, abortion rights activists--conducted intensive voter education and the get-out-the-vote drives, and these groups now take credit for delivering Gore's popular vote victory. "
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otokogi Donating Member (368 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
19. last i checked us progressives got dean in as our spokesperson...
these freaks are shiting their pants because they realize that their world is coming to an end.
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
20. ever wonder why Whitman and the rest don't have one-tenth
of the venom for Bush and his policies as they do for the 'left-wing' boogiemen?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #20
23. They do
As Ruy Teixeira of the Center for American Progress said:

As (Joe) Conason points out, the blistering profile by Kilgore is one of the featured articles in the DLC's magazine. And the rest of the magazine is chock-full of equally scathing articles about the Bush administration and its policies (the tag-line for the whole issue is "Stop, Thief!). In fact, since Bush entered office, the DLC has, through its various outlets, produced over 260 hit-pieces on various aspects of Bush skulduggery. Maybe it's time progressives and liberals gave these guys a break, instead of referring to them as "Republican lite" or "Democrats in name only".

http://www.emergingdemocraticmajorityweblog.com/donkeyrising/archives/000212.php
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. The DLC's prissy slaps at Bush serve as a fig leaf
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 09:42 AM by iconoclastNYC
Wow that single example just proves without a doubt that the DLC is sufficiently anti-Bush and right-wing! :sarcasm:

Sure...and pigs fly. A lot of the DLC came from the right-wing and they are employed at the DLC to bash liberals.

The question is why is the DLC using corporate money to bash liberals of the Democratic party?

The internet enables liberals to bash the DLC. Rightfully so. And we are.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #26
30. Another LOL!
Even when the facts stare you right in the face, you still pull your Pendejo the Revolutionary routine!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:48 AM
Response to Reply #30
35. What facts do you have?
You give Clinton the credit for a decent growth in the economy and declare him the Messiah.

That's all you have.

And you applaud the DLC for bashing the people that the party has to get out to the polls if
we wanted to get elected.

Newsflash buddy Clinton woudln't have won without the liberal vote, the vote that the DLC is
insulting.

What about unity? Or does that only work one way in your corprate-paid DLC worldview?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #35
45. there you go again
Try to keep up. See, in THIS subthread, we're discussing the amount of negative pieces the DLC has written about Bush. And a respected liberal source has declared that there have been many.
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #23
68. Did they bitch slap the republicans
before or after they voted for the war, the tax cuts, the bankruptcy bill, the medicare drug bill, or just go on Meet the Press to sing bush's praises?

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #68
73. was it just the DLC that did this?
Consider your answer carefully...
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Donna Zen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #73
117. The subject is the DLC's actions
...we are not discussing Democrats who could have done some "bitch slapping" and didn't. Giving the DLC credit for rhetoric, when they caved on the hard votes, seems rather silly.

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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 07:09 PM
Response to Reply #117
135. was it just the DLC that did this?
"caved on the hard votes."
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #23
120. "260 hit-pieces!" ohboyohboyohboy
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 04:29 PM by chill_wind
Heck, I produce that many all by myself in a day some days.

Ok I *grossly exaggerate* for satire's sake, but COME ON---

A farting total 260 "hit-pieces" spread out over 6 years of this relentless insanity?? They could have justified that many on just his Iraq War disaster and endless attached spending bills alone. (which I'm sure they didn't) Have these guys been vacationing mostly on the moon since junior/cheney/rove took the WH?

MAN!!
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #120
141. On the contrary.
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 09:13 PM by AtomicKitten
It unequivocally proves the allegations against the DLC here completely false and baseless.

Your ridicule of it in your efforts to minimize their opposition is really bizarre. It's really a silly argument, you know. But, please, feel free to carry on with it with all the vigor of someone who confuses lame ridicule with a substantive point.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 05:27 AM
Response to Reply #120
146. Are they published in a magazine with over 40,000 monthly subscribers...
AND distributed on websites with overa million hits a week?
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Jim Sagle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:51 PM
Response to Reply #20
139. Because DLCers are really hardcore Republican activists.
When they knock populism as a losing strategy, they're not mistaken, they're lying. They knock populism because it's a WINNING strategy, and they know it.

They're losers, not because they're incompetent, but because they're PAID by corporate cash to lose. Losing is their job.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
29. kos's personal politics: definitely NOT left-wing; not at all
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 10:31 AM by Douglas Carpenter
I'm not knocking these guys. There the kind of "centrist" I can handle even if I don't agree with them on many issues. Their contribution is enormous.

They are a bit iconoclastic in their own way. They don't stick to strict doctrinaire definition. They may have a few idiosyncratic leftie thoughts here and there that sound more like personal eccentricity than anything philosophic. But they are not left-wing; not by any means.

I'm not posting this to either attack or defend Kos (Markos Moulitsas Zuniga). He certainly does not however share my personal political convictions. I'm just pointing out that he is not by any means left-wing and is at most only moderately liberal. His complaints with the DLC are strictly strategic and tactical - not ideological. On philosophy he is probably one notch to the left of the DLC. Peter Beinart wrote a glowing review of their book, Crashing The Gate which he highlights at the top of his frontpage:



--an insightful guide to how the Democratic Party can retake power -- Peter Beinart, NY Times
Amazon link: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1931498997/qid=1150209528/sr=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_1/002-1846545-3744063?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

article from Washington Monthly:
link:

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0601.wallace-wells.html

"Kos Call
For America's number one liberal blogger
politics is like sports: It's all about winning.

By Benjamin Wallace-Wells

snip:"The conventional wisdom is that a Democratic Party in which Moulitsas calls the shots would cater to every whim of its liberal base. But though he can match Michael Moore for shrillness, the most salient thing about Moulitsas's politics is not where he falls on the left-right spectrum (he's actually not very far left). It's his relentless competitiveness, founded not on any particular set of political principles, but on an obsession with tactics —and in particular, with the tactics of a besieged minority, struggling for survival: stand up for your principles, stay united, and never back down from a fight. “They want to make me into the latest Jesse Jackson, but I'm not ideological at all,” Moulitsas told me, “I'm just all about winning.” "

snip"Simon Rosenberg, the president of the centrist New Democratic Network (NDN), says that “frankly I don't think there's anyone who's had the potential to revolutionize the Democratic Party that Markos does.” This great faith has put Moulitsas—an extremely smart, irascible, self-contradictory, often petty, always difficult, non-practicing attorney and web programmer with no real political experience—in the position of trying to understand, on the fly, what real power is and how it might be exercised, thrust him into a flailing, wild-eyed and bold solitary venture, trying to turn a website into a movement."

snip;"He went after the Democratic consultant hierarchy for its refusal to innovate, and the party establishment for providing a “gravy train” for consultants who keep losing races. He attacked NARAL after the abortion rights organization endorsed pro-choice Republican senator Lincoln Chafee (R-R.I.) over his predicted challenger, a pro-life Democrat. He has also argued, along with others, that to win back red states, Democrats should avoid talking about gun-control—advice the party has largely taken, with some initial success."

snip:"Moulitsas, for his part, had spent the previous few months focused on taking on the liberal interest groups, urging Democrats to run more pro-life candidates, and to contest rural contests with rural values—all long-held tenets of the DLC. So Moulitsas's beef with the group wasn't over ideology, it was, predictably, over tactics" "

link to full article:
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2006/0601.wallace-wells.html
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #29
38. I don't think he's the most solid liberal (kos) but he's better than
Anyone from the DLC, or Clintonian Democrats, Rubin Democrats, Hamiltonian democrats...etc.

My favorite Blogger is David Sirota.

I read kos book and I'm reading Sirotas...and Sirota is 100x the progressive and author as is kos.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:32 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. I like Sirota a lot too. He's solidly progressive
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #52
57. http://www.davidsirota.com
He has a new book out. It's excellent.
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liberalpragmatist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
37. I'm not a centrist-basher, and I think the DLC is often a bogeyman...
... but WHY does Marshall Whitmann have a blog on an official Democratic Party site?! It's fine if he's alienated from Republicans, but he's clearly a right-of-center moderate Republican. If he wants to support Democrats for office, great, but he should do it from his OWN blog, not an in-house Democratic website, given that he certainly doesn't toe a party line and is often extremely critical of any left-wing presence.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 09:52 AM
Response to Reply #37
40. The DLC notion of what is the center
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 10:17 AM by iconoclastNYC
Is the DC, K-street, inside the beltway version of centrism. True centrism, as defined by the voters outside the beltway is much farther to the left on most issues. Polls show wide support for an increase in the min. wage, universal access to healthcare, stricter enforcement of trade and environmental protection laws, etc etc. All things the right-wing demonizes and the DLC tells us will hurt us at the ballot box.

"Centrism" as practiced by the DLC is a hoax. It's a right-wing agenda for America and it's made too many inraods in our party and it must be challenged.

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 05:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
128. To be precise...
The DLC is not an "official Democratic site." The DLC is in no way affiliated with the Democratic Party. They are enjoined by their tax status from raising money for, or contributing money too political candidates.
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
48. Whittman is ultra-right-wing former Christian Coalition official
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 10:11 AM by IndyOp
DLC Peddles Right-Wing Talking Points; Christian Coalition Official in DLC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/IndyOp/18

Joe Lieberman & the Hostile Takeover of Centrism (in David Sirota's book: Hostile Takeover)

As just one example, take Marshall Wittman. This ultra-right-wing former Christian Coalition official is now employed at the Democratic Leadership Council, and purports to speak for Democrats. He is one of the most odious icons of Washington's bought-off bipartisan Establishment - and has made a name for himself peddling right-wing talking points, narratives and storylines wholly at odds with actual facts. Last week was no exception. He told the Los Angeles Times that the Connecticut primary "is a fight for the soul of the Democratic Party" because "it will have repercussions for the 2008 presidential campaign and whether centrists will feel comfortable within the Democratic Party."


The DLC: to the History Pages

For a decade and a half, the DLC dominated the Democratic Party more thoroughly than any pressure group had ever controlled any political party in American history. After ten years of failure to regain the majority in Congress and abject failures in the two previous presidential elections, Governor Howard Dean led a grassroots movement of party activists to reclaim the levers of power for traditional Democratic policies: constitutional democracy, the open society, multilateralism, social welfare, a national health service, national security and homeland security realized through diplomacy rather than by military confrontation and many more substantive and socially progressive policies besides.

While Governor Dean faced a broad field of DLC-backed opponents parroting Mr. From's mantras redolent of neoconservative cant, each one crumbled like a rag doll before him. Today, Governor Dean is leading a through-going reorganization of the Democratic Party that relies on the energy provided by grassroots activists. At the same time, Governor Dean has de-emphasized the right-leaning consultancies and pressure groups preferred by the DLC.

In order to succeed with his plan for the reform of the Democratic Party, Governor Dean faces the stalwart opposition of Mr. From and his neoconservative cronies at the DLC and many powerful Democratic office holders as well, who are still under their sway. These neoconservative Democrats include: Governor Tom Vilsack, Senator Evan Bayh, Senator Joe Biden and Senator Hillary Clinton.

http://www.counterpunch.org/carmichael05302006.html



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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. Thanks for that!
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 10:16 AM by iconoclastNYC
It really drives home the conclusion about the DLC:

1. The DLC is a sure way to fracture the party as it drives off real traditional democrats who have to now call themselves: "Progressives" to set them apart from the DLCers.

2. The DLC is funded and staffed by the right-wing

If we had an indpendent media this would be widely known. But the corrupt corporate media ignores the story.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #48
130. Hire Christian Coalition spokesman to bash liberals: yep, it's the DLC!
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 10:25 AM
Response to Original message
50. Whitman is a McCain Republican.
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colonel odis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
60. here's another result, it'll produce -- i'll stay home on election day.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #60
88. Because of the liberal blogosphere?
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UDenver20 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:59 AM
Response to Original message
61. Why is it that the only people the DLC stands up to....
is other Democrats?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Ruy Teixeira of the Center for American Progress said:
As Ruy Teixeira of the Center for American Progress said:

As (Joe) Conason points out, the blistering profile by Kilgore is one of the featured articles in the DLC's magazine. And the rest of the magazine is chock-full of equally scathing articles about the Bush administration and its policies (the tag-line for the whole issue is "Stop, Thief!). In fact, since Bush entered office, the DLC has, through its various outlets, produced over 260 hit-pieces on various aspects of Bush skulduggery. Maybe it's time progressives and liberals gave these guys a break, instead of referring to them as "Republican lite" or "Democrats in name only".
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #62
71. Wow! Over 260 hit pieces on Bush skulduggery?
That would seem to indicate the DLC is, in fact, not in bed with BushCo.

I guess when one is on a wild-eyed, vein-popping rage bent, teensy points like the above are overlooked. Or ignored.

It's the over the top drama of these threads, the untruthiness, that is so tiresome.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #71
82. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #82
91. Deleted sub-thread
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #71
136. Unhappy Republicans have assailed this admin with more intensity and rigor
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 08:13 PM by chill_wind
If all we're going to measure are some recited quantity of (260) DLC 'hitpieces' on the Bush admin as some substantiation of how aggressively they are working every day (at that rate, not even every week) to enlighten the world and expose the destructiveness of this admin for ALL OF US-- Feh!

e.g. I was just looking at John Dean's blog at Findlaw for other info, but encountered no less than 130+ incisively sharp, substantive (hitpiece) critiques of the conduct and policies of this admin--- just one guy's effort-- and he's a Republican, for crying out loud!

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dean/dean1.html

But that's all mostly beside the point.

I just think that if they seriously want to facilitate more unified strength and cohesiveness within the party, the above hitpiece under discussion is certainly a real bizarre way to approach it.









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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. again, their opposition is not nothing
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 09:11 PM by AtomicKitten
Your efforts to minimize their opposition are just absurd, particularly when it completely contradicts the allegations here that the DLC are aiding and abetting BushCo.

Nice try.

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UDenver20 Donating Member (403 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #62
74. Ok dude...
But when's the last time you saw the moderate republicans stand up to the neocons? That's why they're the ruling party. They work together.

"Democrats follow their hearts and Republicans fall in line"

Ironically, some of my favorite Dems are DLC types. BUT - The DLC hasn't come up with a good idea since 1992. Time for someone else to drive for a while.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #74
78. ok, dude
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 02:52 PM by wyldwolf
I'm not sure what your point is. Moderate Republicans have been breaking often as of late.

The DLC hasn't come up with a good idea since 1992. Time for someone else to drive for a while.

Oh, yeah? What do you think their last good idea was? And fortunately for us, only the voters can decide when it's time to let someone else drive.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
67. In 1890 unions had never helped elect anyone yet.
Fuck him. He's living in the past.
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Placebo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
75. This is not a new quote.
Move along people there's nothing to see here.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #75
86. And yet....Media Whore #1 (Russert) used it to bash Kos on MTP last Sunday
So I think it is fact something to pay attention to.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
76. He is basically correct...
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 02:45 PM by SaveElmer
The liberal blogosphere does mainly preach to the choir, creating a liberal echo chamber. There is nothing wrong with that, and all movements start out that way...

The test will be if it can either a.) broaden its appeal without abandoning the issues it cares about, or b.) convince a majority of the country of the correctness of its view.

If not it will either be assimilated into a larger structure that subsumes some of its issues (which means it did have some influence). Much the way populait movements were integrated into the Democratic Party (NPL in North Dakota, Farmer Labor in Minnesota), Or it will become a liberal splinter group, having relatively little actual influence (Greens)



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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. DUCK!
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 02:54 PM by wyldwolf
look what happenned to me after post #15!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #79
87. Deleted message
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #87
95. was there an insult on post #15?
LOL! Wrong again!
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
84. When a democrat uses "liberal" as a bad word you know
someone has been suckling the McCarthyite rhetoric for far too long.

Disqualified from the debate before it began. Sorry Whitman. No dice.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #84
98. that I agree with
I abhor anyone that participates in the demonization of the world "liberal." It is a term that must be embraced; it's the only way to overcome the stigma attached.

But the distinction should be made that the DLC has targeted progressives just as progressives have targeted the DLC, so in my view it is a wash and probably the biggest waste of energy and space here at DU.

It is the Republicans that are the enemy and that's whom we should seek to defeat, but that point is lost with some who instead choose to target Democrats and, yes, that goes for both the DLC and progressives. Compromise is the key but that's a dirty word for some.


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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #98
100. Progressives = the rank and file. DLC = Corp funded D.C. insiders
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 03:40 PM by iconoclastNYC
AtomicKitten your role in the DLC defending racket seems to be to equate the DLC and "Progressives" as both bad for our party.

Which ignores the fact that Progressives are basically the grassroots who want to change our party for the benefit of everyone.

Whereas the DLC is corporate funded DC insiders and or Wall Street types who want to change our party for their exclusive ends.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #100
103. I am glad to separate myself from people like you.
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 04:14 PM by AtomicKitten
Your rhetoric is so over the top, so exaggerated, so blustery that a sane person would bolt from your very presence. You are a very bad representative for your cause. Your arguments are peppered with BS and insults, something intelligent, reasonable people will reject.

This is my party too. I am a liberal and proud to put the wedge between myself and people like you.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #103
106. Deleted message
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #106
129. only to you, dear
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #106
131. You have picked the wrong enemy here...
AK is not even a DLC supporter...she is simply tired of unfair attacks no matter the political stripe.

To call her a DLC sycophant just exposes your intolerance to the views of others...and frankly is reminiscent of red-baiting.

"Are you now, or have you ever been a member of the DLC?"

Most people here know she is not a DLC supporter, so you are simply lowering any credibility you may have had on the topic.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #100
104. Deleted message
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #104
107. Newsflash people didn't know about the DLC in 1992, 1996
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #107
109. newsflash! They STILL don't
However, they knew DLC candidates, and DLC policies, and voted for them.
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #109
110. If everyone knew about the DLC this thread woudn't be necc.
So thanks for helping keep it kicked and making my job easier.

:toast:
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #110
112. like I said before, always feels good to show people what a total..
illogical subject changer you are when your points keep getting kicked into the ground.
I swear its like arguing with a freeper.

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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #98
115. I agree except I would replace the word compromise with
debate.

The truth can't be measured in mass appeal. Either privatization and corporate welfare works collectively or it doesn't. We should be debating these things and deciding on solutions instead of spinning around with ideological wet noodles. There are oodles and oodles of sound research that dive into this divide. To create a compromise just because it's easy would be a mistake imho. The hard work is to do the even harder work required to craft sound policy based on identifiable success. That to me should be the only grounds for compromise, but that can only happen when they are also the grounds for the debate.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. I agree a sea change is sorely needed
and perhaps the Democratic Party has hit the skids hard enough to create an opening for a shift in ideology, the basic tenets of a platform that will invigorate the party and America as a whole. I am of the school of thought that supports all voices; even that notion is not popular with some here. My brain works better with more information, not less.

I view the problem as being money, sadly, as always. I do believe netroots can become a force to be reckoned with by virtue of fund-raising abilities because, again, as always, money equals power, and in this case a voice. Candidates courting (some view as kowtowing to) the DLC has been primarily because they raise the big bucks. And we must face the hard, cold reality that until the process is truly reformed, we must have money to compete against the endless pile of cash on the other side of the aisle.

That is what will move mountains, not threads calling to banish the DLC from the party. Bigger problems require more creative solutions. Still in my view, wrestling the reins of power from the Republicans is first and foremost on our list of things to do, and if in the process we can mold a better, more populist party, we'd really be creating the path for a sea change. We have our work cut out for us.

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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #119
121. This thread suggested the reverse but I've seen threads
that you mention. There is a long running shouting match at the moment.

I wade into from time to time but I can see where both sides are coming from so...even though I would identify my politics with an anti-corporate tagline I do understand that the corporation is the most powerful form of non-governmental power. My anti-corporatism is just a 'social hope'.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #121
122. a circular firing squad
I would identify my politics similar to yours, but because I believe everyone should have a voice, I get tagged by some of the more rabid anti-DLC'ers as being pro-DLC. Crazy, really.

Hope is attaching yourself to a cause that is bigger than you are, one that you can't control, and working for an honorable cause. We can't ever give up. :)
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 05:12 PM
Response to Reply #122
127. very true
:hi:
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
102. Truth hurts, don"t it....
How do you guys keep your sanity under vicious criticism like that?
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #102
105. Deleted message
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #105
108. Deleted message
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MrBenchley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #105
111. Just giving the stink a good airing-out......
Now go cry some more about how put upon you are....
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Moochy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #105
125. That'd be onion farts?
Hey old pals! :hug:
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
114. Deleted message
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #114
116. Great post. Thank you.
Lets see how the four DLC defenders react to this....
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #114
126. ooh! look what else is from the same website!
Edited on Tue Jun-13-06 04:56 PM by wyldwolf
The next DLC candidate from Arkansas...General Wesley Clark.

my they're a bastion of info there! I rather like their Trilateral, Bilderbergs, CFR, Illuminati, Skull & Bones forum! LOLOLOLOLOLOL!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #126
132. Is that a quote?
I think DU policy is to include a link.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 06:46 PM
Response to Reply #132
133. not to THAT website it isn't!
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iconoclastNYC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:07 PM
Response to Original message
118. I got the quotation wrong:
It should be:

"(Left wing bloggers) are an echo chamber that speaks to a hyper-partisan, very liberal slice of the Democratic Party. As of yet, they have not produced any political results. There most celebrated activity was the Dean (2004) presidential campaign. The last time I LOOKED there was not a President Dean."
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
123. The DLC bloggers and leaders use the tactics of humiliation...
which are so often used by the GOP and Rove. The DLC and the DLC bloggers use words to put down progressives and humiliate us.

They do it in the hopes we will slink away with our tails between our legs.

Guess what, it ain't working. Instead it is going to put those who stubbornly stand by this snotty little elistist attitude toward the people of the party on the defensive.

Lieberman is chicken. Rather than listen to the people of the party, he is giving signals he may be afraid to lose...might even drop out t run as an independent.

Hillary is going to feel pressure also. Not so much from her challenger, but from the people of the party. Now, they have lots and lots of money, not a whole lot of caring about us...and in the end it will start to turn our way.

The tactics of humiliation Rove uses are no different than those practiced by the DLC and it bloggers at times.

Keep it up, keep insulting. It will work in our favor. From the time in 2003 they called people like me "fringe"....they have hurt themselves.
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PaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 06:55 PM
Response to Original message
134. When will these guys realize.........
that the Republicans have built a majority in both the senate and congress and won the White House by being "hyper-partisan" and ultra conservative?
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chill_wind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-13-06 11:53 PM
Response to Original message
142. If you liked that one, you'll no doubt love this one
Edited on Wed Jun-14-06 12:16 AM by chill_wind
"The problem for Democrats is that an important part of their base -- upscale white liberals -- seems torn about the meaning of patriotism. "

DLC Will Marshall went on to explain the meaning of it all to our (important, upscale, white liberal) base last summer, when he warned about the (pacifist, fringe anti_American) Iraq War critics. The base, he exhorts, would do best to heed the Iraq War patriots Hillary Clinton, Joe Biden, Evan Bayh, John Kerry.

So there you are. Trouble your beautiful minds no further, as Babs might say.

DLC | Blueprint Magazine | July 23, 2005

(....)

"Democrats need to be choosier about the political company they keep, distancing themselves from the pacifist and anti-American fringe."

(...)

long read.
http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253472&kaid=124&subid=307

Big tent, lots of voices you betcha.


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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-14-06 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
148. Considering the DLC played a part in Dean's downfall...
Edited on Wed Jun-14-06 02:47 PM by GloriaSmith
I really don't see why I should care what these people say or think. It's just a paycheck they're trying to save anyway so screw 'em. :eyes:

on edit:
http://www.counterpunch.org/frank07082004.html

"But the great myth of the current cycle," DLC leaders Al From and Bruce Reed wrote in a May 15, 2003 memo, "is the misguided notion that the hopes and dreams of activists represent the heart and soul of the Democratic Party. "What activists like Dean call the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party is an aberration: the McGovern-Mondale wing, defined principally by weakness abroad and elitist, interest-group liberalism at home."

...

David Jones, an avid fundraiser and organizer for the Democratic National Committee and a staunch DLC patron who garnered money for centrist New Democrats like Bill Clinton and Al Gore, founded an anti-Dean group that ran vile ads attacking him early on in the Iowa contest. Deceptively called "Americans for Jobs, Health Care & Progressive Values, 2004 Election Cycle," Jones' group conducted a poll, which found that most Americans championed Dean's Iraq war stance. But few knew of his support of NAFTA, Medicare cuts in the mid 1990s, or his endorsements from the NRA.

"The first spot, on Dean's NRA endorsements, ran Dec. 5-12 in Iowa," The Chicago Sun Tribune reported on February 19, 2004. "The second ad ran Dec. 12-19 in Iowa and hit Dean on his NRA backing and NAFTA and Medicare stands. By this time, Jones did not have much money left."
Jones' group raised in excess of $600,000 from numerous Democratic insiders, including former New Jersey Democratic Senator Robert Torricelli whose political career ended abruptly fell victim to ethics violations. Torricelli donated $50,000 to Jones' group.

As The Washington Post reported on February 16, 2004, "The list makes clearer than ever that the rules need to be changed to provide timely disclosure-to ensure that voters know who is behind this kind of attack advertising in time to factor that into their decision-making, should they so choose. We learn now that unions that had endorsed Rep. Richard A. Gephardt (Mo.) contributed $200,000 of the group's $663,000 in donations. Two top Gephardt backers also contributed: Leo Hindery Jr. of YES Network ($100,000), who served as a national finance co-chair, and Swanee Hunt ($25,000), who was a national campaign co-chair.



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