Mark Warner on Iran and Venezuela (posted at Kos)

[ProSense]

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/6/11/03338/1129

[ima_sinnic]

1. "any reason to take this Hillary-with-a-prostate-gland seriously?"

my sentiments exactly.
no thank you to Warner.

[Totally Committed]

2. Ditto.

The guy is twelve shades of beige AND a Hillary knock-off. No thanks.

TC

[godai]

5. Warner on the ticket means Dems win VA. Any value?

I do see the Hillary analogy but Warner does pretty much ensure a Democrat win in Virginia. Hillary ensures a win in NY, which is a given. Also, he doesn't have the Senatorial flipity-flopity vulnerabilites that US Senators have. I'm convinced Senators will have a difficult time winning based on the rovian approach to political campaigns. Their voting records are scrutinized and 'flip-flops' are 'defined'. Repubs seem to have learned this and don't nominate Senators (eg Raygun, Shrubs 1&2. And, Clinton was not a Senator...same for Carter).

Unfortunately, it looks like we will see a continuing trend to broaden the base toward the right, following a post 9-11 fear scenario. Is there someone out there brave enough to stand up against this, who can be nominated? No one comes to mind except perhaps Clark, Edwards. Gore, unfortunately, seems burned out as far as political campaigns)

[wisteria]

7. It is not necessarily a given that Warner would take VA. It is speculative

He may be remembered as a popular Governor, but would Virginians automatically go vote for him as President. What they vote for in a Governor may not be the same traits they look for in a President. You can never assume anything in Politics and certainly never a sure win. Take into consideration Gore's loss in 2000 in his home state of Tenn..

Oh, and you omitted Senator Kerry from your list of those possibly able and willing to stand up to those taking the party to the right. As a matter of fact, he is more liberal than all of the others you mention.

[godai]

19. If Warner can't win VA, no Democrat can

But I agree you can't guarantee anything by balancing the ticket. About Kerry,
as I mentioned, I don't beleive that Senators can win (rove's flip flop etc. approach). It's not impossible, but it is a negative factor according to today's campaign rules.

Do you think that Mrs. Kerry would be interested in another campaign and in being First Lady? I don't believe so.

[Sparkly]

22. It's also not a given he'd take all the states Kerry & Gore did.

The speculation that Warner could win all the 2004 blue states + VA is just speculation.

Just sayin'.

[Awsi Dooger]

26. Warner atop the ticket would be a near certainty to win Virginia

Unless George Allen is on the GOP ticket. That's the wild card.

Virginia is trending Democratic and will be perhaps 3-4 points GOP leaning in 2008. A favorite son will topple that number easily, especially since Virginia has not been represented on a national ticket for ages.

Tennessee naturally got bored with Gore on the ticket for 3 straight cycles. If it had been Gore's first appearance on the ticket in '00 he very well might have won Tennessee. Plus, the Tennessee example is not a good one since that state tilts maybe 10 points Republican compared to the nation, not 4 points like Virginia in '08.

Warner needs to shut up about foreign policy right now. That's been my position for months. If he's got poor advisors, as someone down thread states, then he should realize that and replace them. Absolutely no need to lock yourself into positions in June 2006.

Winning the daily dialogue today means squat. Hillary doesn't get that. She's got to jump into the dialogue on every issue, including Ann Coulter.

[1932]

34. Do Republicans run Bushes to win Texas? I think you're thinking about

candidates the wrong way.

You certainly run candidates you think can do well in competitive states. But you don't run a Virginian just to win Virginia even though his CE0-in-chief spiel is going to turn off voters at a time when they're looking for a message that speaks to their sense that America is becoming a polarized society in which CEOs happen to be doing really well at the cost of people farther down the ladder and who will see CEOs-turned-politicians (at their luxury and leisure) as a sign of the problem with America and not as a sign of what's working right in America.

[Awsi Dooger]

36. You don't seem to understand how vital Virginia is

It is the whole ballgame in '08. Both sides understand that. It is like Ohio in '04, the state isolated immediately after the previous election as the key to the next one.

The Republicans probably can't win without Virginia in '08. It's that simple. Annexing Virginia completely reverses the margin for error in our favor. If we held the Kerry states and added Virginia, that means only one among these six states is necessary: Ohio, Florida, Colorado, Nevada, Iowa, New Mexico.

That's right, we can probably get away without Ohio or Florida if we add Virginia. The significance of that cannot be understated.

It's why Warner will get a huge look and why the GOP is very likely to stick Allen on their ticket, especially if Warner tops ours. Since Virginia tilts 3-4 points GOP, it's very questionable whether Warner in our VP slot would be enough. The typical VP boost is 3-3.5 points. Might be higher in Virginia since Warner was so popular, and the state has not had anyone on the ticket in a long time.

Texas is a lock GOP state. Not a good comparison.

We're only talking about winning the electoral college here. Nothing serious. Especially in a year, 2008, in which the popular vote figures to be extremely tight if not a photo finish based on historical trends. The dismissal of Warner on this forum never ceases to amaze me. Maybe we would rather cry about Diebold than actually win.

[Sparkly]

37. You could say the same about any candidate from any state

that went red on a certain margin in 2004. But you're assuming any candidate could get the states Kerry did, automatically.

That's not an automatic assumption.

Somebody like Warner -- a lightweight when it comes to national security, military, and foreign policy experience -- could run against a Republican who comes off as "strong" on those issues and lose in Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, and any other close states.

There are NO "safe states" in any equation.

[Awsi Dooger]

41. Virginia has 13 electoral votes, so it's hardly any state

It's got to be a state with enough electoral votes to make a difference in the playing field. Virginia has 13. That's the key. It enables any state with at least 5 electoral votes added to Kerry's 252 and Virginia's 13 to get us to the magic 270.

I'm not assuming we automatically win Kerry's states. The ones you mentioned are all problematic and will be contested. I do make the assumption someone who had a 74% approval rating in red Virginia will be able to pull off a national campaign and overcome all the lightweight nonsense. A nominee of a major party is tested for an entire year at this point, during the primaries and earlier. Warner has to prove himself and I think he will. Political wagerers have bet him down from 40/1 to 10/1 to win the presidency, and 10/1 to 4/1 to be our nominee. They don't put money down two years in advance without info and advantage.

And there are safe states. Dozens of them. That's why we only contest 16 or 17 right now, although Warner wants to expand that.

[Texas_Kat]

43. Actually Texas is NOT a locked up Republican State

Depends on the candidate...... I can think of 1 potential candidate that has a chance, and his name ain't Warner.

If Virginia is trending blue, then this particular guy could take it too.

He said this weekend about the 06 election IN TEXAS to a wildly cheering crowd of 5000 Democratic activists.

We concede nothing!

[Awsi Dooger]

49. Allow me to wager the other way

Here's Texas:

Texas:
'88: Bush (55.95 - 43.35) = + 4.88% Republican
'92: Bush (40.56 - 37.08) = + 9.04% Republican
'96: Dole (48.76 - 43.83) = + 13.46% Republican
'00: Bush (59.30 - 37.98) = + 21.83% Republican
'04: Bush (61.09 - 38.22) = + 20.41% Republican

Now that looks like a huge and persistent Republican swing but '00 and '04 are inflated due to GW's presence atop the ticket. Even if you slice 5 or 6 points it's still way out of our reach in '08. In fact, if you go back to the '92 level of 9 points GOP leaning, we have no chance. I'll write that again, for emphasis. No chance in '08.

Our high water mark is 43.83% in '96, and that was with Clinton winning nationally by 8.5%.

Incremental steps are necessary and I applaud everyone involved, but let's not pretend it's going to happen this year or '08.

[Texas_Kat]

56. Run a decent Democratic candidate and you'll see the difference...

Keep trying to count beans......

We concede NOTHING!

[Awsi Dooger]

59. That decent candidate would have to win the national popular vote

By 10 points or more to win Texas. In other words, Texas could not be more irrelevant right now, in terms of the presidential vote. If we win Texas we're winning deep red states everywhere.

[Texas_Kat]

63. Yes,and wouldn't that be an amazing thing for a Democrat to do

eom

[blm]

15. So - GOP operatives are already set up to steal Pennsylvania's electoral

votes. What will Warner do about that?

[godai]

20. Please explain how...

I'm thinking Democrat victories for Governor and Senator in 2006 will put PA in good hands for a Democratic victory in 2008.

Is the vote stealing Diebold related?

[blm]

23. GOP operatives just bought Philly's 2 biggest papers - they didn't do that

to tell the truth.

[JNelson6563]

17. Gore burned out?

After 8 years off the trail, he is well rested. That's like saying a hockey team that has had a few days rest is at a disadvantage compared to the guys who have not had a night off in some time.

Gore is fresh, ready to go and has a most insightful perspective--not to mention an amazing store of knowledge and experience. I hope he runs.

Julie

[godai]

18. I was hoping not but last time I saw him he looked tired

I think that it would be a great story for Gore to run again and win (again) but my opinion is that he does not look forward to another grueling campaign.
On the other hand, he was great on SNL and, if that's the new Gore, and he has the drive to campaign, he's got my vote.

[malikstein]

47. What's the point of winning?

If the candidate is Republican-Lite, why is it a plus if he/she wins?

[Cascadian]

62. Hillary/Warner 2008???

I swear to the Creator, if Hillary or Mark Warner do win the White House and we are still pushing this PNAC business under their administration, then I reserve the right to oppose them just as venehmently as under this Bush regime. Be damned anybody who thinks a continuation of PNAC under a Democratic White House will be a good thing.



John

[1932]

3. Warner bullshit on Venezuela (and Natasha's great comments):

In response to a follow-up I asked just outside the hall, he said that Hugo Chavez had gone against Venezuela's constitution and tried to break up union organizing. Gov. Warner, Hugo Chavez arranged a new constitutional convention for Venezuela that represented every segment of society, including women's groups and the often ignored indigenous population, and put both himself and that new constitution up for a vote when the final document was created. When the corporate strikes crippled Caracas demanding he resign, when his opponents had gathered enough signatures to demand a recall of his presidency according to the new constitutional provisions, he ran for his office a third time and was re-elected by a margin worthy of Barbara Boxer.

And that union busting? The state oil company's management and their corrupt `union' partners were all in on the coup against Chavez' government. The coup that lasted a mere day, yet was still long enough a time for the Bush administration to recognize it as Venezuela's official government. Chavez did fire the employees of that union, who openly participated in strikes whose stated goal was the ouster, one way or another, of Venezuela's elected government. You could accurately describe his actions as political retribution, but anti-union? Heck, the Reagan administration fired all the air traffic controllers just for demanding better working conditions and the Bush administration just busts unions out of spite. Mike Noonan of the AFL-CIO said yesterday at a panel that as of 2005, the Bush administration's actions had expressly forbidden over 20 million American workers from organizing unions. But Venezuela, they're the big threat.

[IndianaGreen]

31. Warner's knowledge of the world comes from the NY Times

Imagine that, a man that all he knows is from crap written by people like Tom Friedman and former NY Times "reporter" Judy Miller.

[1932]

32. I think he knows that he's not really telling the truth.

i think he's a voice of capital. Warner is already running as the best possible CEO-in-chief. If you listen to him, that's his message.

Capital and the majority of CEOs in America don't believe in Venezuela's social project, which, ironically, isn't so different from the one FDR impletmented and which SAVED capitalism from its own, inherrent excesses. This means that even according to Warner's definition of his own value (in being a great CEO) he's dooming himself to failure by rejecting what FDR stood for, including his Good Neighbor/non-intervention policy in the Americas as well as his preference for building wealth in the working class, even if a lot of that wealth had to flow down from the top.

[Cascadian]

58. Warner's comments on Venezuela disturbing.

I also must applaud Natasha's comments for correcting the former governor of Virginia with the facts about Chavez. Chavez is no despot. He has been chosen by the people of Venezuela to clean up what was a corrupt government and economic system that only benefited the wealthy. Chavez is no more of a threat to America than say Luxembourg. The only reason he has been singled out by those in Washington is because he has oil, he is friendly with Cuba, and he is left-leaning. If Warner wants to continue this "Axis of Evil" nonsense that Bush has been pushing on us and the world then forget it. America must engage peacefully and constructively with Venezuela. A possible Warner administration or any Democratic administration better change the course that Bush has taken us in regards to foreign, military, and economic policy. Warner is sending the wrong message.


John

[Douglas Carpenter]

4. I'm sorry to say this but the man is ignorant and dangerous

I've tried to keep an open mind about Gov. Warner. I didn't feel it fair to write him off because he is labeled a "centrist" or that he belongs to the DLC.

I am very much afraid that America could be led astray into an even more disastrous imperial war in the Middle East or elsewhere not by a Republican President but by a Democratic President.

Will the Democratic Party and America continues down the same path of extremist folly that has led us to the point where the U.S, military budget now roughly equals the rest of the world's combined together; and the nation is heading into an endless series of conflicts and war that never ends by the perpetuates own requirements?


"Oceania is at War with Eurasia. Oceana has Always has been at War with Eurasia" George Orwell from 1984

[leveymg]

6. It's not that he's ignorant, it's that he has some poor tutors right now.

The danger is that Warner will be written off by the Left-wing of the Democratic Party, and that no effort will be made at establishing a dialogue with the candidate and his key advisors. That leaves access restricted to the Cold War leftovers who run the DLC-CFR-AFL Foundation for Free Labor Development, Kennedy School, et al. They are literally the ones shaping his perceptions:

Kennedy School Press Release: IOP Names Mark Warner and Patricia .....
Mark Warner and Patricia Clarey to Serve as Spring Visiting Fellows at ... issues facing states in the 21st century,” said Jeanne Shaheen, Director of the ... http://www.ksg.harvard.edu/ksgnews/PressRele ... /032306_iop_spring_fellows.htm

We only have ourselves to blame if no real effort is made to communicate with the man who is most likely to be the first elected President of the United States in the 21st Century.

If you have some particular expertise in Venezuela issues, I suggest you engage people at a level that is accessible to us. You might want to start with these people:

Mark Warner for President Blog Team
They will be running on the same issues because they have all served in the ... NC Director Draft Mark Warner Thanks to our team in NC for a job well done! ... http://www.draftmarkwarner.com/blog.html

[KoKo]

8. leveymg .....I'm confused...

Are these your comments or the comments of "draft warner" blog. Are you part of the NC draft Warner movement?

Sorry...haven't had enough coffee yet...

In response to the comments, I agree with whoever is making them that Warner needs to have some input from those in the Dem Party on the Left. Will he listen is the question. I was glad to see that he attended the Kos Convention and that he has a Diary there. Perhaps he can be influenced by the "internets" even though Kos isn't Lefty.

[leveymg]

10. Those are solely my comments and opinions.

I live in Virginia, and have volunteered with the local Democratic Party organization, but am not now and have not been part of the Warner presidential campaign or its proxies.

I am a part-time blogger and full-time Democrat. :kick:

[Sparkly]

39. If he's not ignorant, why does he need "tutors?"

:shrug:

[Douglas Carpenter]

42. Peter Beinart seems to be one of Gov. Warner's tutors

Former New Republic editor Peter Beinart who advocates a highly interventionist and militaristic view toward foreign policy has had a great deal of influence on Gov. Warner.

This is the blurb Gov. Warner wrote for Peter Beinart's book: "The Good Fight" --"This book takes the long view -- beyond the difficulties in Iraq to America's long-range strategy for defeating Islamist extremism. It presents a bold plan for repairing our overstretched military, rebuilding our strategic alliances, renewing our economic strength, and restoring American's most precious asset -- our moral authority."

-- Mark Warner, former governor of Virginia

[sendero]

51. Anyone who believes..

... that you can "defeat" Islamic extremism is already hopelessly off the tracks and not worthy of consideration for Senator much less president.

You cannot defeat an idea, you can only set an example that makes that idea look stupid. We are following in Israel's footsteps vis a vis the "war on terror" and we will have similar success - that is to say NONE.

[IndianaGreen]

30. We can ill afford a candidate that is ignorant of the world's realities

when we already have some on hand that know and understand the complex world in which we are part of.

[The2ndWheel]

55. As long as the Pentagon exists

there is no other road.

[NI4NI]

9. 8 world countries, 22,000 suspected total number of nukes

North Korean numbers are not included.

Iran is reportedly 5-10 years away from having 1, it's first.

Mark Warner's opinion that Iran is one of the biggest threats to WMD proliferation is because, why?

[wisteria]

12. Exactly. North Korea is a larger threat. !

[leveymg]

13. It's because Iran is the one that everyone is talking to him about.

He's mirroring what he hears. It's up to us to try to get alternative facts and views to his attention.

Again, as in the case of Venezuela, if you have something that Warner or his advisors should know about, there are ways of getting in touch with them. If you try.

Please see my post above. Get in touch with those running his on-line presence, and take it from there.

[ProSense]

16. Foreign policy facts aren't hidden. Warner needs to educate himself n/t

[Telly Savalas]

28. So Mark Warner needs some guy with no political experience

sitting in his jammies typing at a computer at 12:30 at night to offer guidance on foreign policy? I tend to set the bar a little bit higher when it comes to defining leadership.

[Le Taz Hot]

61. Those same people

sitting in their jammies typing at a computer at 12:30 at night were/are the exact same ones who knew the reasons for going to Iraq were all lies, that the election was stolen both in 2000 and 2004, knew Scooter Libby leaked Plame's name WAY before the MSM picked up on it and countless other facts that of which "fearless leaders" seem to be clueless.

[wisteria]

11. it is becoming increasingly more difficult to be objective about Warner.

His lack of foreign policy experience and his unwillingness to hold Bush accountable for his leading us into an unnecessary war. Now, I have to contend with Daily Kos promoting him.

[KoKo]

14. Kos promoting him is maybe not a bad thing, though.

It does give some "control" if one promotes. Since we know that Kerry didn't seem to understand what was going on with the Dem Internet and the internet wasn't as powerful when Gore ran, it might just be very clever for all candidates to have to deal with us out here.

If those of us who might be to the "left" of Warner ignore him...then he only hears from the Dem "powers that be." See leveymg's post on this above.

Better for Warner to have to answer tough questions from the internet folks than to just sail through to the nomination only hearing from the establishment. :shrug:

Disclosure: I'm hoping to draft Gore, but think the more Dem candidates that run the better for discussion, in the long run.

[FrenchieCat]

21. Oooh, I know!

Let's run a Democrat with no foreign policy and National Security experience in 2008? :sarcasm:

I mean, Foreign policy and National Security are NOT the issue being discussed on the news 24/7 for the past 5 years anyways! These are NOT issues that if the GOP wants a win in 2008 all they have to do is manufacture what-E-ver they want to, after all!!! :shrug:

And anyways......It's the economy stoopid! :eyes:

[Douglas Carpenter]

24. /

[Tom Rinaldo]

25. I asked Clark about Iran today while he was blogging on Kos

Here is the exchange we had:

Me: General Clark, can we stop a war with Iran? What do our leaders need to hear from us in order for them to act responsibly regarding America's role in the world?

General Clark: Tom, our leaders need to hear that America's not buying another war except as a last, last, last resort. We need to be talking, seriously, to Iran. And we need a regional strategy that accounts for fears in the Persian Gulf, Pakistani and Indian Nucs, and all of that. It's doable, i think,but maybe not by this Administration. Wes

[Douglas Carpenter]

27. General Clark is a lot more glued to reality

[IndianaGreen]

29. Ahhh, an adult at last!

Instead of a DLC parrot like Warner seems to be.

[Sparkly]

38. I'm right with you there, IG.

:hi:

(Except if he stood up as a "DLC parrot," I'd have some respect for him.)

[1932]

33. I'd like to know when he thinks the line has been crossed that makes

war a last resort. He could call it a "last, last, last resort" or even a "last, last, last, last resort" but I still wouldn't know when he thinks the line has been crossed that necessitates war.

[FrenchieCat]

35. To bad that you don't know, considering that you used to claim that

You had read his books.....

Clark spend 100 hours in one on one conversations with Milosovic prior to determining that force was the only thing that was going to stop the killing that was going on.

From 1995 till 1999 Wes Clark and others attempted dialogue, peace treaties, and total diplomacy with Milosovic.....of that came the Dayton Peace Accords in 1995.....
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/europe/jan-june06/milosevic_3-13.html

200,000 had been killed in the Bosnian War.

In April of 1999, that is when it was decided that it would take force to stop the new round of ethnic cleansing.

But remember that even with the Kosovo war occurring, not one U.S. Soldier was killed, Approx 500 Civilians death resulted from the bombing (relatively low considering) and Milosovic ended up at the Hague, not dead for show in a picture frame.

Clark did feel that intervention in Rwanda was warranted.....where 800,000 were murdered.

and he does feel that Darfur is also at a point where U.N. or NATO intervention is required, where anywhere from 300,000 to 400,000 have found their death.

Guess when the death toll seems to be on an uptick, Clark makes his determination based on facts on the ground, and how many are still at risk........but always remember that he is not for "elective" wars, nor does he believe in Unilateral action.

Also remember that Wes Clark experienced war up close and almost died. He's not one to make claims that Last, last, last resort means anything but that. He understands that war is ugly and real.

Maybe you also didn't watch the Young Turks interview Clark did in las Vegas during Yearly Kos!
mms://youngturks.wmod.llnwd.net/a591/o1/6-9WesClarkSr.wmv

[Tom Rinaldo]

52. I'd like to see more Democrats stress the urgency of talking to Iran

instead of threatening Iran. I would like to see more Democrats acknowledge that the U.S. has created the conditions that almost force a nation like Iran to go nuclear. I'd like to hear more Democrats talk about the region wide security concerns that drive events in the Middle East and Indian Sub Continent, not just Israel and American security concerns that drive American politics. I'd like to hear Hillary Clinton and Mark Warner and Al Gore and John Edwards and a host of others, on the record, talking about these issues if they want lead to lead America safely through the coming years.

To date Wes Clark is the only National Democrat I have heard show the courage to actually say that the United States needs to consider the possibility of peacefully coexisting with a nuclear armed Iran, if it comes to that. Has that possibility been raised by any other Democrat? All the others seem to be saying that Iran must not be allowed to go nuclear; no ifs, ands, or buts about it. They also all say that all options should remain on the table, so what does that say about where they all draw the line, at its furthest boundary, about when war should commence? I would love to be enlightened about the positions that other Democrats, who are considering running for President, are taking regarding Iran.

[blm]

57. Kerry said last week that the intel show Iran is FIVE YEARS away from any

nuclear weapon capability, so don't buy any RUSH to military action. He said there is no reason why we can't push diplomacy during that time.

[Placebo]

40. Warner is just getting started on the national stage...

give him time and he will have every issue nailed down just fine.

Personally, I think he would make a great candidate, but what do I know...

[Texas_Kat]

44. I'm not sure a candidate for president should be learning

about foreign policy from Bilderberg. ... or a book ... or a set of tutors.

There are some things you can learn by reading, there are some that can only be learned by living them.

[Placebo]

48. What did Clinton know of foreign policy?

Right.

[Texas_Kat]

53. Is is no longer 1992.

Remember that Clinton had Somalia.

Clinton had Clark to help negotiate the Dayton Peace Accords, which ended the Bosnian War. Clinton had Clark to win in Kosovo (and keep a 19 nation coalition together).

From a poster at dKos:

As someone who watched it happen(1+ / 0-)
I'd like to put forward something Wes Clark would never say himself:

In the history of European warfare, nobody ever won a more resounding victory: not Hannibal, not Napoleon. Wes Clark did what nobody else in history has ever done, cut through the Gordian Knot of land warfare in the Balkans with the most lopsided victory in modern times, we must return to Cannae to find a more one-sided rout. He did not do it alone, but he led it, and without a single US casualty of which I am aware.

Putting aside the idiocy of the war itself, and the pack of lies which got us into it, had Wes Clark's air campaign been duplicated in Iraq, this war would long since have ended, and thousands of American lives would have been saved.

He is far too modest a man to ever take credit for it, but Wes Clark's air campaign in the Balkans is the most brilliant masterstroke in the history of the American military since Washington put cannon on Dorchester Heights, in an unassailable position, driving the British from Boston. Kossacks should know just how clever and resourceful General Clark is: more is the pity he is so honest, for honest men fare ill in that Babylon-upon-Potomac, Washington DC.

http://www.dailykos.com/comments/2006/6/12/135417/204/421#c421

[ProSense]

54. Are you serious? n/t

[Texas_Kat]

64. Deadly serious

[Douglas Carpenter]

45. Gov. Mark Warner is PNAC'sRichard Perle's second favorite Democrat

after Sen. Lieberman.

from: A New "Perle Harbor": Neocon Foreign Policy Architect Richard Perle reveals US War Plans in the Iranian Theater

link:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php context=viewArticle&code=CAR20060607&articleId=2596

by Dr. Michael Carmichael

"When a perceptive student asked about his preferences for the next president of the United States, Perle made some riveting remarks. He immediately stated his hope that Senator Joseph Lieberman would be the Democratic candidate. Failing that miracle, Perle hopes former Governor Mark Warner will win the Democratic nomination. Perle warmly praised both right-leaning Democrats who are doyens of the Democratic Leadership Council. Richard Giuliani is Perle’s favorite Republican. When asked about potential presidential candidates who would cause him concern, Perle swiftly reeled off a long list of Democrats led by Governor Howard Dean, followed closely by Senator John Kerry, former Vice President Al Gore, former Senator John Edwards, and he finished his list of neoconservative hate figures with a revealing comment about Senator Hillary Clinton."

[Douglas Carpenter]

50. sorry, here is the correct link for that article:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/PrintArticle.php?articleId=2596

[Selatius]

46. Venezuela's people deserve to have their judgment questioned over Chavez

The last thing we want is popular elected leaders who won their last election by 59 percent of the vote who actually think social programs to help people and fight poverty are good things.

:sarcasm:

While it's true no leader is perfect, Chavez is far better than Bush will ever be in the eyes of the Venezuelan people.

John Warner needs to learn to respect the choices other people make when they actually vote in elections that are internationally monitored.

[Cascadian]

60. Chavez offered to send cheap oil to US

Of course Bush snubbed that and I think Bush also snubbed Chavez's offer to help Katrina victims as well. Who is a better friend to the American people? The arrogance of our foreign policy has got to stop and that is a call for both parties. The Latin American people can decide for themselves what they want.



John