AFTER EMPIRE: Britain, France, Germany, Japan--are they that bad off?

[yurbud]

A good test of whether the neocon imperial project is in the best interest of the average American is looking at other countries that used to be expansionist empires that have retreated back to their original territory.

Of those four former empires, those that were in the empire business the shortest time, Germany and Japan, seem to be doing the best. Most Americans don't seem to know it, but Germany lost the war and won the peace. They are in the driver's seat of Europe.

Japan has next to no military, but like China, has economic muscle to flex.


Britain is kind of shabby compared to continental Europe, but that could be because of a couple of decades of Thatcher conservativism followed by Blair doing the same in Labor drag.

By measures like life expectancy, infant mortality, education or whatever else you think is important for average citizens, these countries are doing as well and in many areas better than us.

It seems like all the profit from empire goes to those at the very, very top, and at best the rest of us get the bill.

[TriSec]

1. The trouble with that scenario...

is that all four of those nations were ravaged by WWII. It's taken a half-century to recover.

So, perhaps the question is, will we be better off a half century from now after a violent rebellion in the US overthrows the Bush regime?

Hell, we'll be better off 50 seconds after such an overthrow.

[yurbud]

4. recovering from WW II makes their current state look even better

[tocqueville]

2. never mind, we are working on a new one

this time it's going to be transatlantic one with a collective leadership based on WWII allies + Germany. A more central leader will emerge, but it's not sure he's going to be American. Mercenary troops will be recruited in the former British and French colonies. An alliance will be passed with Russia, to guarantee a benevolent neutrality.

Goal : world domination

target : Middle East, Iran, Pakistan, India and China inclusive North Korea. Other Asian countries will probably remain neutral, Indonesia's role unclear.

Japan and Russia will join the Empire towards the end to get a piece of the cake...

Latin America will remain neutral but profit of the situation to grow even stronger, bedding for later conflicts...

Estimation : 1 billion deaths

China/India will become a new Germany... Secular democracies will be imposed on the Arab world

A tremendous economical upsurge will be the result in the West which will conquer the Solar System...

well that's the neocons new plan, they have moved to London

[yurbud]

5. geeze! got a link on that?

[tocqueville]

7. this is only speculation, but the neocon part is true

the PNAC site is down

read following articles :

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x161454
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/muriel_volestrangler/74
http://www.eurotrib.com/story/2005/10/3/82357/8175

google “Committee for a Strong Europe”

http://libe-usa.blogs.com/CSE.html gives you the new strategy

THE COMMITTEE FOR A STRONG EUROPE

We, Europeans and Americans committed to the defense and promotion of freedom in a dangerous world, have come together to create The Committee for a Strong Europe. Our belief is that a Europe whose foreign policy is strategically sound and morally grounded, and whose nations are strong economically and militarily, can be a responsible and important actor on the world stage. The United States has a deep and abiding interest in a strong, capable, and independent Europe able to wield significant influence around the globe. Our conviction is that a strong Europe can act effectively in concert with the United States to deal with the threats we face, and to take advantage of the opportunities we share to expand freedom around the globe and to shape a world in which liberal and democratic principles flourish.

Guiding Principles of The Committee For A Strong Europe

- We believe that the desire for freedom is universal--unbounded by culture, religion or geography.

- We believe that a strong partnership between the United States and Europe is crucial to the defense and promotion of freedom for all nations.

- We believe both Europe and the United States must have strong and free economies that encourage entrepreneurship and individual initiative and responsibility.

- We believe both the United States and Europe should invest adequately in their armed forces so as to have strong militaries capable of serving in a wide variety of missions around the world.

- We believe that all free nations must fight terrorism and adopt policies that challenge states that harbor or support terrorists.

- We believe that all free nations have an obligation to aid those living in tyranny, and that regimes that subjugate their own people at home will not be reliable friends and allies.


well the rest is easy to figure out....

[yurbud]

8. I don't know if Europe has the military to do what we do, do they?

[tocqueville]

11. Oh yes, except for some very specific tasks

but this not known to the public in the US. Europe has the power but have been lacking projection capability.
This will be completely changed round 2010-15

[Vidar]

3. America is historically incapable of learning from others' mistakes

[yurbud]

6. yeah, I think I'm going to be arrested for even implying we are like

other countries.

[paulk]

9. actually Japan does have a military

this is not really in relation to your topic, but you're not correct in saying that Japan has "next to no military" .

Japan ranks 6th worldwide in spending on it's military. The JSDF is considered by military experts to be one of the best in the world, in both training and equipment. This military has never been used, by law, in operations outside of Japan.

There's a reason the west would like Japan to change it's Constitution to allow deployment of it's army in foreign lands...

[IndianaGreen]

10. Germany and Japan did well after we executed their wartime leaders

Perhaps the same medicine will be applied to America.