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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:22 AM
Original message
DLC joins Gibson in calling for more "European babies"
This is a thinly veiled call for building up the Aryan race in order to win elections. Sorry, DLC apologists -- this is simply indefensible, over-the-top racist thinking.

(Note: The DLC also takes the opportunity to mallign the term "progressive" by taking it as their own while they are just the opposite of progressive.)

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=127&subid=170&contentid=253870

Baby Bust
Progressives aren't having as many babies as conservatives. Democrats should learn how to appeal to families.
By Phillip Longman

What are the differences between "blue states" and "red states?" There are many, of course. People in blue states, for example, tend to be richer and better educated, and to drink more expensive coffee. But here is another point of contrast that has far deeper implications for the future of the nation's culture and politics. People in blue states tend to have far fewer children.

Indeed, if one looks at all the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 and thinks of them as a nation unto themselves, that nation has a European-level fertility rate of just 1.86 children per woman, which is far below the level needed to replace the population. Meanwhile, in Bush Country, fertility rates are some 12 percent higher. Producing an average 2.08 children per woman, Bush Country has the highest fertility rate of any industrialized nation on earth.

It wasn't always this way. One hundred years ago, progressives like Mary Harris "Mother" Jones embraced the "family wage," "maternal feminism," and many other policies designed to protect the family from the predations of capitalists and an increasingly global economy.

During the 1930s, prominent progressives, such as Franklin D. Roosevelt's Labor Secretary Frances Perkins, denounced an economic system that forced mothers of young children into factories and clerical jobs. Common sense suggests that working class supporters of the New Deal had, on average, more children than the economic royalists who opposed it. It's thus no surprise that, in defense of the family, Perkins and other New Dealers structured programs such as Social Security so that they would reward and protect married women who took the economic risk of being full-time mothers.

Yet sometime in the 1960s, the connection between progressivism and defense of the traditional family began to break down, with consequences that today are leading to progressives around the world being quite literally out-bred by those who adhere to more conservative values. Fortunately, if Democrats can remember and revive their pro-family politics of the past, they may once again broaden their appeal and halt this trend.

But first, progressives must acknowledge the problem. Today, a remarkable feature of our politics is that people on the left have significantly fewer children than those on the right, and by and large don't see any problem with that. Being on the left has come to have less to do with whether you must struggle to feed your children, and more to do with how you feel about abortion, environmentalism, gender equity, gay rights, church attendance, and the questioning of traditional family values.

This pattern holds not only in the United States but in all advanced societies these days. In Western Europe, for example, polling data has revealed correlations that many Americans will recognize in their own life experience. Demographer Ron J. Lesthaeghe has found that people in Europe who distrust the military; who seldom, if ever, go to church; who support environmentalism, minority rights, legalized abortion, and other "progressive" issues, are far less likely to have children than those who take opposing views.

In the United States, we see such correlations between fertility and political stance most clearly in the election maps. For example, in eight states, 60 percent or more of all non-Hispanic white women ages 25 through 29 have no children. They are Massachusetts, in which 70 percent of such women are childless, followed by New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, Rhode Island, California, Colorado, and Maryland. All but one of them -- Colorado -- voted for Kerry. In contrast, in eight other states, 40 percent or less of non- Hispanic white women ages 25 through 29 are childless. These are Arizona, West Virginia, Indiana, Kentucky, Idaho, Mississippi, Utah, and Wyoming -- all solid Bush states.

Similarly, such indicators as a state's average age of first marriage, its percentage of unmarried heterosexual couples, and its percentage of same-sex households correlate very strongly both with its overall fertility and with its voting patterns. For example, the areas of the country where Kerry prevailed in 2004 are the same areas where age of first marriage is highest and children are fewest. Conversely, George W. Bush got the largest share of votes in areas where cohabitating unions are comparatively rare and children plentiful. In a bastion of Democratic liberalism like Seattle, there are nearly 45 percent more dogs than children. In a stronghold of religious conservatism like Salt Lake City, there are 18 percent more children than dogs.

There are many reasons why progressives should be alarmed by these trends. First, of course, is the simple danger of demographic decline. Today, because of the unprecedented increase in the number of childless adults and single-child families, the next generation is being produced by a comparatively narrow, and for the most part very conservative, segment of the population. But there are also deeper reasons why progressives need to rethink their attitudes toward children and human reproduction generally. Put bluntly, progressives have much more at stake than conservatives do in promoting pro-natal policies, even if these policies are not specifically pointed at raising the birthrates of progressives themselves.

One reason, as we can see starkly today in Europe, is that low birthrates make financing the welfare state increasingly difficult. Progressives who like to start sentences with the phrases like, "In Sweden, they ..." should look at how that country has been compelled in recent years to slash pension and other old-age benefits to compensate for its low fertility rate.

In the United States, the fact that birthrates have drifted much lower than the levels anticipated by the architects of Social Security and Medicare has created huge unfunded liabilities in those programs. Part of the reason progressivism flourished in the 1960s and 1970s was that so many people thought the baby boom would go on forever, making programs like Medicare and wage indexing for Social Security seem affordable.

A stereotype about progressives holds that the reason they have fewer children is that they are too selfish or self-absorbed. Maybe some are. Others may be so keenly aware of the planet's problems, from the threat of nuclear war to environmental degradation, that they despair of bringing more children into the world. But the broader and more obvious truth is that most progressives, just like everyone else, do want to have children, and would welcome government help in smoothing the tensions between work and family.

So would many people who today vote Republican, but who have little material benefit to show for it. As Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam observed last November in the conservative Weekly Standard: "Despite the fact that families with children are among the most reliable Republican constituencies, President Bush has done surprisingly little to address their needs." Indeed, about the only measure Bush has taken to benefit parents was a minor provision in the 2001 tax cut package that increased the size of the child tax credit, from $600 to $1,000.

Yet perhaps the greatest lesson progressives can learn from these sobering demographics is that they should not fall into the trap of being perceived as the anti-family party. There is, after all, nothing about religious fundamentalists or social conservatives that makes them inherently Republican, much less inherently committed to tax cuts for the rich or pre-emptive wars. What is irreducible is their commitment to family. They will ultimately swing to whichever party seems to defend and promote the family the best, which could be the Democrats, if the party responds to these compelling demographics.

Defending the family could -- and should -- once again become an important part of the progressive agenda. What Mother Jones wrote in her autobiography is still true today: "All the average human being asks is something he can call a home; a family that is fed and warm.

Phillip Longman is a Bernard L. Schwartz Senior Fellow at the New America Foundation and the author of The Empty Cradle: How Falling Birthrates Threaten World Prosperity and What to Do About It (Perseus, 2004).
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:27 AM
Response to Original message
1. Who are these people? What is wrong with women trying to get an
education and start a professional career. In addition, how are young people in the states he quoted able to pay for an appartment where to live with a family.

May be the DLC should look at the reality of life for families rather than at some weird rationals that dont make sense.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. They are people desperate for power. No morals, no sense of
Edited on Tue May-23-06 09:31 AM by katinmn
true community, no sense of right and wrong. Lacking in understanding and humanity.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #1
32. I don't think they're saying there is ANYTHING wrong with
that. Did you see this part?

"But the broader and more obvious truth is that most progressives, just like everyone else, do want to have children, and would welcome government help in smoothing the tensions between work and family.

So would many people who today vote Republican, but who have little material benefit to show for it. As Ross Douthat and Reihan Salam observed last November in the conservative Weekly Standard: "Despite the fact that families with children are among the most reliable Republican constituencies, President Bush has done surprisingly little to address their needs." Indeed, about the only measure Bush has taken to benefit parents was a minor provision in the 2001 tax cut package that increased the size of the child tax credit, from $600 to $1,000."

My reading of this is that the DLC is pointing out that the government could do more to help people who are juggling jobs and children, and that would be a pro-family policy.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:28 AM
Response to Original message
2. Uh, wrong conclusion there. Dems are more racially diverse than Repubs.
European-level birth rates is reference to birth rates in Europe, and not to race.

If you're calling for higher birth rates for Democrats, because the Democratic party is more racially diverse than the Republican party, you're not calling for more "European babies" (which you intend as an allusion to white babies).
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Mass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. They are calling for more non-hispanic women to have kids.
(barefoot pregnant in the kitchen, I guess, is how they see women),
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
9. Where?
Better make sure you get it right or you're gone until November.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Look at the boldface passages.
You should be ashamed for defending this drivel!
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. I see some statistics.
I see no imperatives.

You should be ashamed for trying to destroy the Democratic Party with a dubious accusation and thus making victims of non-white citizens.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #18
34. You should be ashamed for wasting my time...
...on these accusations while dodging my question. I am clearing my attention of people who use these tactics until November. Maybe I'll see you then.

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PassingFair Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Maybe you can rename your little playground..
Democratic Curbside. Or Democratic Gutter.

You and your 5 friends will have SO much fun!
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #36
47. You too I guess.
Edited on Tue May-23-06 01:51 PM by LoZoccolo
Yes, it is more fun without people like you bothering me.

Why would I want to listen to disingenuous junk that annoys me?

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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #3
16. 90% of black americans vote democratic, They're the non-hispanics this
article is referring to.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. Look again at the passages I put in boldface.
He is calling for more births among non-Hispanics!
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #7
17. That includes african americans.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:50 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. No it doesn't, it says, in BOLD "Non-Hispanic Whites"...
seems pretty obvious to me, in addition the article in question talks about demographic changes.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #23
30. I'm no fan of the DLC, but this article doesn't say white people
should have more babies.
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cmkramer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #2
27. I agree. This was not an appeal to race at all
It appeared to me to be a call for policies that make it easier for women who would like to have children but don't because of concerns over work, etc. to do that.
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Dogmudgeon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. This is just Philip Longman's crusade
I doubt that they ran it other than out of curiosity -- like all the stories about "Tipping Points", "Alpha Males", "Memes", "Reframing", "The Collapse of Civilizations", and other intellectual fads that have a little veracity and a lot of "sexiness".

The context of Longman's argument is that the fertility bust is a long-term situation, occurring over several hundred years, not something that's just happened since the Beatles broke up. It's all true, although Longman's faux paranoia isn't. He's obviously pandering to the Democrats in the piece, but I'm sure he's got a version for the GOP, too.

Longman's book is making the climb onto thousands of coffee tables. Chances are good that Oprah, Larry, and Ellen (just for laffs) will be hosting Longman, too.

Relax. Hitler is still dead, and Longman isn't a Nazi. The DLC remains a bunch of myopic fuddy-duddies, not the Golden Horde in white sheets.

--p!
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
6. These are some sick people at the DLC.
This garbage is just as divisive as any of the crap coming out of the right-wing hate machine.

What are the differences between "blue states" and "red states?" There are many, of course. People in blue states, for example, tend to be richer and better educated, and to drink more expensive coffee. But here is another point of contrast that has far deeper implications for the future of the nation's culture and politics. People in blue states tend to have far fewer children.

All I can say is: "who are these people?"
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:34 AM
Response to Original message
8. Your claim is disingenuous.
The statistics are parsed out to only include blue states. There would be no separation of population by red and blue states if the purpose was a racial one. The non-Hispanic white women are singled out because it's a way of carving up the population to reveal one demographic as an extreme of low childbirth.

Another anti-DLC sham.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. Ha. Nice try but I'm not buying.
Anyone who respects ALL life can see this as racism.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. Don't accuse me of racism.
I am at worst guilty of poor reading comprehension.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
10. The DLC has nothing better to do than fan this flame? I'm
insulted the word 'progressive' is even used by them.
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Apollo11 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:37 AM
Response to Original message
14. Not enough mouths to feed?

There is, after all, nothing about religious fundamentalists or social conservatives that makes them inherently Republican, much less inherently committed to tax cuts for the rich or pre-emptive wars. What is irreducible is their commitment to family. They will ultimately swing to whichever party seems to defend and promote the family the best, which could be the Democrats, if the party responds to these compelling demographics.


Instead of "responding to demographics" (Like what? Make birth control illegal? Introduce a Federal "3 babies per woman" policy?), how about we do something about the number of families living in poverty?

It's not like the US population is actually falling or anything like that.

Of all the species on this planet - this guy worries that there aren't enough humans!

Let's look at Gorilla demographics. Or polar bear demographics ...
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:42 AM
Response to Original message
19. what an incredibly BOGUS conclusion to draw
I used to think some on DU poured over the DLC's site looking for some little sliver of something to come back here and whine about. Now I know it.

For one thing, if we were to dicuss which babies would eventually help Democrats, it wouldn't be whites, would it?

Your first bolded passage speaks of a Euopean fertility rate - meaning the fertility rate among Europeans, and there is nothing racial about it.

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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Europeans=Whites
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. So?
The point is that those in blue states are having babies at the same rate Europeans do. Wouldn't matter if Europeans were blue, green, or orange.
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #21
26. Clear the cobwebs for a second here.
Nothing in this crackpot piece says a thing about relative birth rates between liberals in red states and their conservative neighbors in the same state. This is just a bunch of divisive crap to stir the pot, drive the wedge deeper, divide the people. It is every bit as specious and hateful as the crap that the hate machine spews.

This is total garbage. And it is racist garbage when taken in context. Sure, you can ignore the context, and pretend it isn't racist, but then it just becomes elitist garbage, which is awful enough.

These guys are full of crap and are doing what they can to help destroy this country. Who are these people?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. I think you need to step back, relax, then rejoin reality
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:10 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. Look, I don't offend all that easily any more.
So I ask you a simple question. What do you think the purpose of this piece is? Don't be shy. I am ready to join reality if you will just explain it to me.

What do you think the purpose of this piece is about? Do you think that the author of the piece is concerned about birth rates?
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Dhalgren Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:49 AM
Response to Original message
22. These are ridiculous arguments for political power.
Politics are not hereditary, politics is learned and experienced. You don't breed Democrats or Republicans - you educate Democrats and you under-educate Republicans. There is a bigger threat to Democrats in the willful and methodical destruction of the American public education system than in whether women are intelligent enough to know whether they want children or not. We have got to get away from thinking of women as breeders and start thinking of women (and men) as human beings. Let's not try to breed a Democratic majority, let's try an create one through education and opportunity. This whole eugenics discussion is total bullshit...
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. Exactly. Glad you also picked up on that terminology
Producing

out-bred
promoting pro-natal policies

And then there's this:

"In a bastion of Democratic liberalism like Seattle, there are nearly 45 percent more dogs than children. In a stronghold of religious conservatism like Salt Lake City, there are 18 percent more children than dogs."

WTF?? What kind of argument is that? Comparing children with dogs!






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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Not to mention ignorance of Salt Lake City...
Isn't its mayor a Democrat? Not to mention its more or less a liberal island on a conservative sea, I guess would be the proper way to think about it.
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. It's a silly way to make their point. The percent of dogs is about
constant, from what I recall. What varies between the two cities is the number of children, which is much higher in SLC than Seattle.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:57 AM
Response to Reply #24
39. I bet dog owners have more time to be politically active and vote
It's not like those young mothers (he only selected those under 30) have so much time on their hands for campaigning, protesting, letter writing and standing in vote lines. It's obviously meant to imply a moral difference with someone who chooses children over dogs.
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 10:46 AM
Response to Original message
29. BULLSHIT
Statistics can be twisted to say whatever you want them to say.

For instance, in the blue states, women are likelier to delay having children later. Just because the red states are "ahead" of them in the 25-29 bracket, doesn't mean the blue state women aren't having children. They are waiting until they are more financially secure, and more secure in their relationships, as evidenced by the higher standard of living and the lower divorce rates in the blue states. Yes, there is a slightly lower birth rate in the blue states - and the financial success of the blue states is supporting the barefoot & pregnant red states. The answer is NOT to increase the birthrate of the blue states but to improve the financial structure of the red states so the red states birth rate will decline.

The world population has doubled in the last 30 years, and we see the impact on the environment, on energy resources, and on the availability to clean water. The solution is NOT for ANYBODY to increase their birth rate.

That's just frickin insane.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
40. Ditto
I see this piece more as an attack on women rather than being racist. I think the selection of "Non-Hispanic Whites" was only to have the most dramatic statistic to support his overall point.

His premise is there is something wrong with women not having children and everything else he uses to promote his point.

My favorite part is how sometime in the 60s reproduction rates changed. What could have possibly caused that? Could it be the Birth Control Pill idiot? Or perhaps the later legalization of abortion (for the moment)? As women have more reproductive choices more will choose not to reproduce. I love how he leaves out any statistics of the availability of birth control and abortion in the red states vs. blue states. Perhaps if all things were equal then all things would be equal.

I really hated this article. Women like me are not the reason why Bush "won". So much for the party of inclusion. :sarcasm:
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Usrename Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. What is very disconcerting to me is that some are not offended.
The author of this piece is a monster, a subhuman. It is a vile piece of work to say that conservatives and progessives breed differently. And to do it with no evidence is even worse.

We all know that the blue states are more populated and the red states less populated. So I would expect that EVERYONE in the more populated areas have fewer kids than EVERYONE in the less populated areas. That's just applying what we know about nature. Not even human nature, but nature in general.

And then, on top of trying to draw a distintion where there most likely is none, he continues by passing judgment upon one group over the other.

It is a disgusting piece of writing.

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Jim__ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
31. "...progressives around the world being quite literally out-bred ..."
Could that be because progressives around the world are aware that increasing population is a very real problem? I don't think the solution to this problem is larger families.

Real world problems tend to be complex, and the first apparent solution is not always an actual solution.
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LoZoccolo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
35. Another anti-DLC sham.
Edited on Tue May-23-06 11:36 AM by LoZoccolo
Indeed, if one looks at all the states that voted for John Kerry in 2004 and thinks of them as a nation unto themselves, that nation has a European-level fertility rate of just 1.86 children per woman, which is far below the level needed to replace the population. Meanwhile, in Bush Country, fertility rates are some 12 percent higher. Producing an average 2.08 children per woman, Bush Country has the highest fertility rate of any industrialized nation on earth.

The blue states are compared to Europe because Europe is well-known for having a low birth rate.

If anything, they are encouraging more babies of diverse races because by generally increasing the birth rate of the more diverse blue states overall you will likely be doing just that. (And before you say that I'm saying that non-white people have more babies, I'm not. I said "generally" and "overall".)

ANOTHER SHAM.
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Marnieworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
37. Phillip Longman you have just made my list
Yet another reason to hate the DLC.

I write as one of those blue staters without kids and I could not help but be infuriated by this article. There are so many assumptions that he bases his analysis on, explicit and implicit, that are just wrong or at least not proven.

He writes as if it is fact that children acquire political leanings automatically from their parents or environment as if it is some genetic marker. I got my dad's blue eyes and his GOP membership? Please! How many people have you met in your life that are the complete opposite of their parents? Politically? Religiously? Lifestyle-wise? Geographically? He writes as if people are born as carbon copies of their parents and remain identical demographically.

Another unproven assumption is that all things are equal with blue state and red states with civic participation. He presents no data concerning voter turnout in those areas vs. others based on the # of children. Perhaps the number or active voting progressives in the blue states is quite higher in comparison with the number of voters in the red states actual totals and percentage of population. Are we (progressives) really truly in jeopardy if the millions of progressive voters in highly populated states have less children than the much smaller populations of Idaho and Wyoming? Notice how he uses percentages of populations (70% of MA vs 40% of Idaho) instead of the actual #s? One wonders if his arguement would exist if the totals were used. And the whole concept of only using the 25-29 age group is deliberately deceptive. Why the early cutoff? Is it because perhaps those blue state women are still having children just later than their red state sisters and if there was a similiar comparison based on 45 year old women the differences wouldn't be drastic enough to warrant this piece or his book on the subject.

Clearly he had a premise, chose statistics to manipulate to support the premise, and then presents it as fact. He never once considers how poverty/wealth and education and fundamentalism (and the inherent gender equality within) plays a part in the decisions and experiences of the women in these regions. Apparently only non-Hispanic white women are progressives. That's another bizarre assessment that if Hispanic women were included in the polling that would throw off his manipulated statistics. Why isn't it just all women in Blue States vs. Red States?

This of course is just typical DLC bullshit. Once again spouting the philosophy that to beat Republicans we should be more like Republicans. How's that working again?

The DLC does not speak for me.

/end rant

:grr:



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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 11:55 AM
Response to Original message
38. According to some on this board, the good news is, none
Edited on Tue May-23-06 11:56 AM by Totally Committed
of those blond-haired, blue-eyed Caucasian babies will go hungry, starting 2012, if we just let the DLC run things...

F*CK THE DLC!

TC
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cyberpj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:24 PM
Response to Original message
42. Dems errored by letting Americans forget "party of the working class"
It used to be made crystal clear which party would fight for more for the working class.

I don't see that message being played convincingly any more.

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paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
44. the one making racist accusations is you
by implying that liberals and progressives (blue staters) are white.

the article makes no such claim.
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:53 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. No, the author makes the claim that white Blue staters
aren't having enough kids.

"In the United States, we see such correlations between fertility and political stance most clearly in the election maps. For example, in eight states, 60 percent or more of all non-Hispanic white women ages 25 through 29 have no children. They are Massachusetts, in which 70 percent of such women are childless, followed by New Jersey, Connecticut, New York, Rhode Island, California, Colorado, and Maryland. All but one of them -- Colorado -- voted for Kerry. In contrast, in eight other states, 40 percent or less of non- Hispanic white women ages 25 through 29 are childless. These are Arizona, West Virginia, Indiana, Kentucky, Idaho, Mississippi, Utah, and Wyoming -- all solid Bush states."


Thankfully, some see how screwed up this thinking is. Others never will.
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. The claim was progressives The evidence cited was the largest demographic
in blue states. A poor choice. But nowhere in the article does it say more whites need to have kids. Simply because it is the poor white red staters who are having more babies than rich white blue staters. Every other ethnic group tends to vote democratic because of the obvious racist nature of the republican party. The argument is about whites, but no where does it imply that whites are endangered and in need of "aryanizing" themselves.

The author makes a dumb and narrow minded argument but it isn't a racist one. It maybe a tad sexist however. Because the birth rates in red-states vs. blue states are correlated with both sexual freedom and the propensity to use family planning methods. The author unwittingly asks us to take step backward in time.

Damn progressives and their safe sex practices, if only we poked holes in our diaphragms we could overcome this whole election fraud thing ;)
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katinmn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. No it doesn't state that in those exact word, but it certainly imples it.
If he was just saying progressives should have more kids he could have left out the reference to "non-Hispanic white women."

Everyone should ask themselves what they think the purpose of the article is. :)
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izzybeans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. I agree. The purpose is suspect.
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yellowcanine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 12:34 PM
Response to Original message
45. Title of thread is totally misleading. Thread should be locked.
I am no fan of the DLC but the author of this piece is not making a racial argument. At the least, it is arguable and in the eye of the beholder so the title of the thread is misleading as it states it as fact.
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
48. If progressives and liberals (the real ones of course) had more...
children, we could collectively and effectively counter the growing fundamentalist(a.k.a: IGNORANT) populations of the world. The concept has its merits.
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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. Not necessarily true...
Politics is sometimes inherited, however, not universally, and to be honest, we would still have the roughly 50/50 politics of today in the future regardless of who has how many babies. This is totally dependent on other factors, like how the parties themselves react to any changes, or screw up(think Great Depression). But, largely, politics isn't inherited at all, and in many cases, the opposite takes place, Ron Reagan is an example of that.
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rniel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
51. More justification for their
"Hard Right" turn I'm guessing.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-23-06 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
54. I'm locking this thread
Flamebait misrepresentation

proud patriot Moderaotr
Democratic Underground
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