Just out of curiosity...a poll about Dean and the Clintons...

[jackbourassa]

I'm just curious about peoples opinions here on DU. So consider this nothing more than an exercise which has no deeper meaning that what it purports to be. And i'll try to keep the question as open ended as possible, so as not to skew the results.

This is just for fun. I'm just curious.

Which side do you more closely identify yourself with inside the Democratic Party?

[jackbourassa]

1. Leave a message if you so desire.

I am a strong Dean Democrat. By which I support the netroots, 50-state strategy, etc.

[newsguyatl]

2. deanocrat

through and through.

[PassingFair]

5. I'm with Dean.

The most earnest politician I have
EVER seen or heard.

He alone (Kucinich excepted) stepped
up in 04 to cut through the thorny
vines of the BFEE.

I will never forget it.

[Maddy McCall]

3. How about a progressive liberal who doesn't consider...

herself a part of any single prominent Democrat's fan club.

I like different things about different Democrats. I dislike some things about Bill Clinton. I dislike some things about Hillary. I dislike a few things about Howard Dean.

I'm just an independent-minded progressive Democrat.

[jackbourassa]

7. Well this is just a general thing.

Given all the battles today between the Clinton side and the Dean side, I was just curious. That's why I included only the two names. I just want to know whose vision of the party you support...I understand that many - perhaps most - don't necessarily agree with either or agree with both. But I just wanted to force people to choose between the two.

I have a feeling that these boards have been infiltrated by some Clintonistas. But they tend to be the same people posting over and over again. So I wanted to judge their support, since you are allowed to vote only once.

[Autonomy]

4. I indentify with Bill Clinton a lot

but overall, at this present moment, I have to go with the Dean camp. But in 2008, if you consider Gore a Clintonite, then the pendulum swings back yet again.

[Placebo]

10. I admire the fact that Clinton came up from nothing...

and had all the odds stacked against him from a very young age, but was still able to reach the greatest of heights. And he's never lost his humility or his connection with the common man.

[Tom Rinaldo]

6. Strong Dean for me...

...but I should add that one of the many things that I admire about Howard Dean is his ability to work with a broad range of Democrats. It's ironic, but I might not be as strong a Dean supporter (though I still would be one) if he were as devicive a person inside the Democratic Party as this poll is, in a mild and not overly serious way of course :).

[Placebo]

8. I'm a strong Democrat. Period.

Who, when they speak, gives me goosebumps and makes me proud to be a Democrat?

Definitely Clinton. Not Dean.

[jackbourassa]

9. Are you suggesting that being a Dean Democrat...

...doesn't make you a "strong Democrat?" That's kind of silly.

You are obviously a "Clinton Democrat." Thanks for your vote.

[Placebo]

12. No way.

I was just being honest about which of the two choices affects me more on an emotional level. I'm not an anything Democrat.

[Trajan]

11. I am a ...

FDR, Truman, JFK, Johnson, Muskie, McGovern, Mondale, Carter, Humphrey, Byrd, Durbin, Feingold, Obama, Nunn, Wyden, Cranston, Kennedy, Clark, Clinton, Dean, Gore Democrat ....

Did I miss anybody ?

(edit: BTW, I didn't vote in your poll, because it didnt include any of the other Democrats of which I identify with .... It was too limited and narrow in range ...)

[jackbourassa]

13. I respect that...

...however, i'm not sure why you felt compelled to post a response. Kind of weird given your stated position.

[Trajan]

14. NOT voting in your poll ...

was a response to the narrow scope of possibility, as if there are only two types of Democrat, which you imply: this is simply not true ...

I decided to post here, because you needed to be told this ....

Any objection ?

[karynnj]

22. I have the same problem with the poll as you do

and think the problem is that by defining the party as having two views defined by two people leaves out too many possibilities. An additional problem is that both Dean and Clinton have very definite strongly defined personal characteristics that cloud the ideological choice.

The OP should ask himself whether he could answer a poll where Dean is replaced by Kerry, Gore, Feingold etc. I could answer several but only by abstracting some subset of values for each. I think all of us may have one or more leaders we would be willing to say that we are basically aligned with.

[countmyvote4real]

16. Very impressed by the Janet/Randi photo...

Unlike you, I voted for best of breed in this poll. Instead you held out. You are stronger than me.

If I could participate in a poll, abstain, hold out, whatever; I must endorse Russ Feingold. Truth. Balls. And nice to look at. Plus, he speaks English very well. And yes, he has a real record of votes to stand on.

[Placebo]

18. Randi Rhodes on C-SPAN!

Serving it up to Janet Parshall. A classic.

I love Randi so much, I listen to her show every day!

PS, I totally agree with you, I'm not an __________ < (insert Democratic politician's name here) Democrat.

[madfloridian]

15. I am just a Democrat right now.

I will fight and argue about things, but in the end I am a Democrat until we help get our country straightened out.

[WildEyedLiberal]

17. Neither

I honestly don't have an iota of preference for either camp, because I identify with neither. Too narrow a poll.

[BlueIris]

19. Had to go with Bill. He had a brain, was pro-choice, could strategize

with the best of them, and was capable of staying on message. Hell, he owned the message. If the point of this poll is to lump Dean and Clinton together as centrists, or at least those who promoted centralizing the Democratic Party in order to achieve other objectives, which I can't agree is an accurate characterization...of Clinton, but let's just say for a second that I do, I support Bill's interpretation of a more centrist approach to campaigning, policy-making and governing. Bill went that route in order to create strong, realistic, functional civil-rights-respecting domestic agendas which were inclusive to moderates while still friendly to liberals, focused on economic discipline and growth, and looked at the United States as a nation with a role and responsibility to participate constructively in the global community. He had valid goals he was attempting to achieve through the strategies far too many people here still whine about as having involved too many compromises, which were about anything. but. compromise. Howard Dean is pathetically attempting to justify eliminating the Party's support for my right to choose, social values like a gay person's right to be thought of as a human being, and anything that actually involves effectively framing a coherent, meaningful message by pandering to bigots and misogynists in the vain hope that forcing the Party into his narrow, bland, moderate mold will somehow help us win. Which is all he cares about. Howard Dean is a (bad) politician, President Clinton is a statesman. Dean is a hack. Clinton is a leader.

[madfloridian]

24. Ok, that did it. Here's the quote of what Clinton did to Dean.

Here's your "pro-choice" Clinton in action during the primaries. I believe in honesty and not posting untrue stuff.

This are Dean's words from his book. Let's be honest here.

"It remains to be seen, too, just how much my support for the civil unions bill will hurt my chances to reshape Democratic politics. Some pretty important Democrats have shown they think it might. When former president Clinton was trying to drum up support for Wes Clark, just prior to Clark's entry into the presidential race a year ago, he called a friend in a large city and said "I need you to be for Wes Clark." The friend demurred. Clinton said, "Look, I'm from Arkansas, and Wes is from Arkansas, we need to be for Wes. "

The friend told Clinton he was Dean supporter. "Howard Dean", Clinton said "forfeited his right to run for president when he signed the civil unions bill. He can't win."

It was a rare mistake for the president. The supporter was gay and called us to tip us off.

Page 113 You Have the Power

[Jai4WKC08]

28. Non-sequitur. Clinton's statement...

Assuming he made it at all (it is only hear-say), was about political reality as Clinton saw it. It had absolutely nothing to do with whether Clinton is "pro-choice" with regards to civil unions.

I won't say Clinton's view of reality is right or wrong -- I don't know. I won't even say that we should necessarily care about the reality -- sometimes you've got to stand up for what's right regardless of how it plays with the voters. And I hope you saw the thread I started defending Dean for going on CBN.

But it's just plain wrong to say the Big Dawg isn't pro-choice because of what someone told Dean he (Clinton) said about whether he (Dean) could have won or not.

[madfloridian]

26. And BTW...he said he is going to go back on the CBN.

After his apology, after his interview with the Advocate in which he kindly took the beating being dished out to him...he tried to explain again and again.

He said he would be going to appear there again, that is what he said when he ran for chair, that there would be an outreach to the evangelical community.

Insulting people in the religious community is not going to help us.

And as a Christian, I say good for him. I know a lot of the people who keep their TVs to this channel. They don't like Robertson, they see him as ignorant, but they get a lot from the channel.

I think we should not judge one another.

[LWolf]

20. Neither.

None of the personalities, and neither of those "sides," are relevant to me. I'm focused on issues rather than individuals or "camps," and will support anyone from any camp who is willing to make issues, and constructive work on them, the focus of their political career. Preferably, lol, from my pov on those issues!

[mtnsnake]

21. I'm strongly tepid when I wanna win & tepidly strong when I wanna lose!

depending on who's running and who's not :smoke:

[jackbourassa]

23. Thanks for your participation...

I find the results interesting.

[Upfront]

25. Dean speaks for me!

I am with Dean!

[Jai4WKC08]

27. I find your poll offensive

So obviously I'm not gonna vote in it.

The last thing we need is more divisive, back-biting, us-vs-them bullshit within the Party. If we don't win back at least one house of Congress in November, we're screwed. It's as simple as that.

I don't care what you think Clinton did to Dean, or Dean to Clinton, or what their factions did to each other, or what you think they're likely to do to each other in the future. All I care about is that they both of them want as many Democrats to win in 2006 as is humanly possible. So for THIS year, RIGHT now, they're on the same side.

Real Democrats ALL have far more in common than in what relatively little divides us.

[AtomicKitten]

29. wow .... can't I be both?????

I love both men.

[Adelante]

30. Wes Clark Democrat, so I didn't vote

I will say that I love Bill Clinton and I love Howard Dean. They are both important to me and to the party. I missed the fight, anyway, :shrug: but it was probably no different than the usual nonsense.

[NativeTexan]

31. A Clintonian Democrat here...BUT....I like Dean too....the man........

.......knows how to raise money, and define issues!!

YEEEEEEEEEEEHOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW!!

[eridani]

32. Actually a Kucinich Democrat, but Dean is doing what needs to be done----

--to build the party in 50 states.

[BlueIris]

33. Bump, in case any more Clinton fans want to speak up.

[rman]

34. Are those the two sides of the Dem party? How about Kucinich?

Compared to Kucinich, Dean and Clinton are virtually identical.