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Bob Geiger Donating Member (505 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 08:44 AM
Original message
Simple Domestic Spying Questions for a Simple President
For as long as we've known that the Bush administration routinely breaks the law by spying on American citizens without required warrants, the standard line from George W. Bush and his minions has been that only international transmissions are snooped and, within that select group, only those communicating with known terrorists are spied upon.

Now we have the bombshell disclosure yesterday that the National Security Agency (NSA) has been secretly collecting the phone call records of tens of millions of Americans, using most of the major phone carriers in the United States.

If an American citizen "…is talking to al Qaeda, we want to know why," our fearless leader has said on many occasions since first getting caught with his hand on our telephones and keyboards.

Indeed, it was just yesterday that Bush said that he had authorized the NSA to "…intercept the international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations. In other words, if al Qaeda or their associates are making calls into the United States or out of the United States, we want to know what they're saying."

And, of course, you would need a calculator to figure out how many times those same assurances have been given by outgoing White House Press Secretary Scott "The Lyin' King" McClellan.

In the interest of full disclosure, I'll tell you that I am not an experienced spy. I have never worked for the CIA or the NSA so I'm not sure exactly how their eavesdropping methodology works. But I have worked in computer security for about 20 years, have done my fair share of hacking, have even caught some bad guys in the course of my day job and know a tiny bit about "sniffing" over a telephone wire.

And, while hardly a simple job on a massive scale, the speed and sophistication of the parsing and data-aggregation technology that is available to the upper, most-secret reaches of our government makes something very clear about the president's program: Either it's incredibly broken and ineffective or they're lying through their teeth about the extent of the whole thing.

Let me give you an example. In my world, let's say I want to track down some real porn-surfing deviant on my company's international network. I would "sniff" the wire for people scanning the Internet with search qualifiers such as "O'Reilly + naked + falafel," or "Limbaugh + Oxycontin + orgy." "Cheney + snuff + film" might work too. But once I set my radar on that, I would find out in pretty short order where my culprit was located in very specific terms.

What should make it even easier on Bush's anti-Constitution crew is that, according to what they tell us, they already have half of their riddle solved. Given Team Bush's assertion that they're only spying on people talking to known terrorists, a logical conclusion is that they already know who's on one half of the phone calls snooped -- which means, with today's technology, they should be mighty close to nailing themselves some real, live evildoers.

Which leads me to my questions that I'm hoping somebody in the White House or the NSA reads -- if they didn't get this post in transit -- and can clear up this confusion, lest I be forced to believe they're either lying or stupid:
  • If you have already narrowed down who the terrorists are right down to the physical and logical addresses of their telephones or computers, why don’t you just go get them?
  • Assuming you're filtering through millions of phone calls and you already have them winnowed to bad guys and their possible confederates in the United States, where's the results? I'm sure a political genius like Karl Rove would just love to shut us liberals the hell up by doing a perp walk -- before his own, of course -- with a really bad guy and being able to attribute the righteous bust to the "terrorist surveillance program." Wouldn’t that be worth its weight in political gold? So where's the prizes for all this concentrated effort?
  • I know that many of us prickly Americans are absolutely obsessed with the whereabouts of the people who, well, you know, attacked us on September 11, but it's been almost five years and Osama bin Laden is still running free and podcasting threats at us. Why is it that you still don’t have him in custody with a massive program like this in place?
  • According to Senator Russ Feingold, who sits on the Senate Intelligence Committee, al Qaeda is still operating in at least 60 countries, which is roughly the same as when we were attacked in 2001. If you're doing all this spying and it's targeted at known members of al Qaeda, why hasn't that number gone down in almost five years?
  • When you constantly say that our troops are "fighting for our freedom," isn't our government undermining the very freedoms our brave men and women are allegedly protecting?
Finally, there seems to be very little doubt that the White House has violated the law by spying on American citizens without warrants -- according to the USA Today story yesterday, it may be up to 200 million of us, or two-thirds of the U.S. population -- and I guess that leads to my final question.

How do we teach our children the value of obeying the law when the President of the United States sets such a horrible example?

You can reach Bob Geiger at geiger.bob@gmail.com and read more from him at Democrats.com.
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darkmaestro019 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
1. I just have to give you a Hell yeah for this one:
"If you have already narrowed down who the terrorists are right down to the physical and logical addresses of their telephones or computers, why don’t you just go get them?"


SO SIMPLE. I didn't think of it, either, but that's so inescapably simple. You are awesome. :applause:
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Pool Hall Ace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:50 AM
Response to Original message
2. I can't even imagine how the president would answer these.
Great questions. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Felinity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 09:59 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. Kinda hard to prosecute people with tainted evidence
I rest comfortably in knowing that they are rounding up all the bad guys in secret and sending them to Black Prisons on travel plans arranged by Dusty Foggo.

If that doesn't make you feel safe, just put up an anti-Bush poster on a telephone pole and get some free R&R in a psychiatric hospital at the government's expense.

:grr: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :banghead:
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Gregorian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. We don't need no stinkin' warrants!
Oh, they're spying in order to catch those terrorists. They speak in retroactive terminology. They'll know you were talking to a terrorist, once they catch him. And once a half million Americans have been traumatized, jailed, lost their jobs, and god only knows what else. And that's good enough for half of America. Shoot first, ask questions later. That is why we had the Revolution, King George!




Great post.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 10:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. Swap the words... "Al Qaeda"
Edited on Fri May-12-06 10:42 AM by C_U_L8R
with "Communist Party"
and the potential for abuse is even clearer...
or insert any political affiliation or racial
group or activist position for that matter.

These ILLEGAL wiretaps are UNAMERICAN !!!
They must be stopped NOW !!
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Agony Donating Member (865 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 11:13 AM
Response to Original message
6. The big spin.
Edited on Fri May-12-06 11:14 AM by Agony
I have been trying to presuppose how Bush is going to spin this. And I think I have it. Apologies if anyone else has already posted this idea.

First we have to seperate things out. What Bob is talking about is the actual contents of internet communications, the search terms you type into your browser or the text in a website you visit travel in ASCII code over the wire (and can be intercepted with a sniffer). The conversation you have during a phone call can not be searched in this way unless recorded and digitized and put through voice recognition software.

The news stories on this issue all say that the NSA is not recording the contents of your phone call. The NSA is collecting the same information you might see on your monthly phone bill - the phone number you called and of course your number - the length of the call and time of day. It appears to me that this is what they are talking about... I am NOT saying this makes it right! Do I trust them! NO WAY

This is the nuanced bullshit they are going to spin this with so that dumb and dumber will answer polls with shrug...
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. Not so hard, though
Edited on Sat May-13-06 06:06 PM by Heywoodj
It's honestly not that hard to run speech recognition over voice calls. How else do you think all those companies that have interactive auto-attendants with cutesy names work? The ones where you say "Customer Service", "Billing", or a person's name, to be routed to an extension.

If a company can do that on a modest budget (e.g. for less than an older-style "press one" auto-attendant or a human operator), it's obviously not hard. What do you think the NSA, with billions of dollars and specialized hardware at the ready, can do on that front? I wouldn't put it past someone to use special-purpose (and thus much faster) hardware to process digitally-recorded calls into text.

I mean, those calls are already digitized - they travel over fiber optic lines and are routed by digital switches. Hell, using a $10 Radio Shack part, a copy of Cool Edit, and some freely-downloadable software on my PC, I can record phone calls and analyze conversations into text - just slowly and one at a time, from an analog source.

It's honestly not that hard for someone to convert phone calls into searchable text.
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 01:22 PM
Response to Original message
7. Excellent post Bob, one small quibble.
I believe the Bush administration is quite capable at lying and being stupid at the same time, they are not mutually exclusive. I believe the rest of your post is right on.

Kicked and recommended!

:kick:
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Jesterstear Donating Member (110 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
8. What bothers me the most about this...
There's more outrage over some chucklehead being eliminated from American Idol than there is over these latest domestic spying revelations.

That's why we're so screwed as a country... our citizens care more about a rigged popularity contest than anything else.
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-13-06 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. "Rigged popularity contest"
Sorry, doesn't that describe the last three federal elections?
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Bruden Donating Member (109 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-12-06 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
9. Too bad that giving credible answers is not this adminstration's forte
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