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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:16 PM
Original message
Bill Maher is a major ass clown.
Show after show, Maher criticizes Gore for not talking about global warming in campaign 2000. The only problem with that criticism is it isn't true. Gore mentioned it early in his nomination acceptance speech, his campaign announcement speech and his standard stump speech. He and Bradley discussed it in the Iowa debates. I know because I was there and heard them.

@#$% Maher and the Grecian formula horse he rode in on.
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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
1. Maher was also one of those who repeated the "Gush" thing in 2000
trying to say there was no difference between Gore and Bush. he wanted to appear "cool" to Nader and the other "both parties the same" crowd.
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Liberal Veteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. I disagree with your assessment.
I don't think Bill Maher is so much saying that Gore didn't talk about it, but that he didn't do enough to make it a "front burner" issue in the campaign.
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
10. When the media ignore what you are saying
and make their own agenda, it is hard to get it back
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:02 AM
Response to Reply #10
25. Both Gore and Kerry had most of their campaign editted in newsrooms to fit
the corporate media storylines laid out by their GOP bosses.

No matter how many issues Gore and Kerry addressed in detail, the RW message machine controlled the daily programming of the network shows.

The weak roster of DNC pundits and spokespeople didn't help, either.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #25
49. Right, and maher should
be savvy enough to know this, too.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
19. That may be his point,
but it's not what he says. He says explicitly, repeatedly, that Gore didn't talk about it which is absolutely false. Gore emphasized it.

But your more nuanced characterization is worthy of discussion, IMO. I've wondered the same thing, whether he emphasized it enough, for example, in the debates with Bush. There are several ways of approaching that topic.

First politically. A candidates job is not to talk about issues, a candidates job is to get elected. We know Gore would have worked tirelessly on the issue if he'd been elected, as he did as VP, so at one level you can say the most important focus is not educating the public about the gravity of the issue, but staying focused on winning. Of course he did have an effective strategy and won the election but wasn't inaugurated because of Republican perfidy.

Second, you can look at it pragmatically. In 2000 the pre-Katrina American public didn't care much about climate change. Now they do increasingly. It was a hard sell at that time and if he had made it the first and foremost issue, rather than one of several top issues, would he have been more successful? I doubt it. Journalists by and large didn't want to report on the issue and would have amplified the mocking talking points of the RNC if he had. They did plenty of that as it was.

Third, Bill Maher is extremely naive in many ways. He sounds like the baseball fan at the barber shop who knows what the home team manager is doing wrong. Al Gore is a world class politician. Bill Maher wouldn't know the first thing about how to run a successful campaign for mayor in McPherson, Kansas.

What do I mean about Maher being naive? Consider his flip flops on Iraq. A couple of times after these close-to-meaningless elections in Iraq, Maher would change his mind and say maybe Bush was on to something. I listened to that and just laughed. Winning the peace in Iraq was always a dicey proposition at best with tremendous danger of de-stabilizing the Middle East and many serious people were saying that before the invasion. Wouldn't you agree he's a light weight?
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WannaJumpMyScooter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #19
33. Light weight? More like molecular weight
He is not even a politician, not even a pundit, he is an entertainer.
And not a very good one as far as I can see.
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WildEyedLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
3. I definitely remember Gore talking about the environment a lot
It was one of his biggest issues.

Maher is too kool for Democrats, though. :eyes:
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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #3
55. Exactly! As proof, even republicans knew about Al Gore's love for the...
...environment when, in early summer of 2000, I was on a political blog on Compuserve and debated with numerous, nasty rethugs why Al Gore should be President, and got, among the usual "he's too stiff", "he lied about inventing the internet" ( thanks to Dubya, now also known as the internetS), the "Gore's a tree-hugger and wants everyone in America to give up their trucks and Humvees and ride a bicycle" schtick.

Ironic that I learned about Al Gore's committment to the environment(AND that he'd written a book about it!) during his 2000 Pres. campaign from Republicans of all people (I, myself, was pretty A-Political like most of the happy country under a Clinton Presidency), yet a progressive like Bill Maher was ignornant about it???

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JI7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 03:18 AM
Response to Reply #55
71. they claimed Gore wanted to control how many times we can flush
the toilet and other crap. because they are so fucking stupid and liars they accused Gore of saying he "invented" the internet as a way to avoid giving him credit for Gore's support for expanding the internet.

and Bill Maher isn't a progressive, liberal, or Dem. i remember one of his biggest problems was govt funding for things like health care for pregnant women. he would spout the right wing crap about how they shouldn't have kids if they can't pay for it .

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BlueCaliDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-24-06 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #71
79. Maher's a "progressive" on some things (universal healthcare--now), and...
...quite republican on other things (once believed that invading Iraq was a good thing especially then when there were the December elections).

He calls himself a "libertarian" (which is, to me, right of Bush&Cabal---isn't Buchanan a "libertarian?), but I really don't know much about libetarians, really.

I mean, he did vote for Ralph Nader in 2000, and Nader's NO libertarian!

In most things, however, Maher is pretty liberal (has a penchant for wild sex with black, sexy, leggy women; loathes marriage; loathes having children; is against poisoning our environment/food/children, hates Bush&Co).

And when I say "liberal", I mean it in the literal sense of the word, rather than the "labeling" sense.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:22 PM
Response to Original message
4. i dont really like him either, too much grandstanding, too smug.
he thinks he is pretty clever too.
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anitar1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #4
12. Ya got it! Maher is so full of himself imo. I think he rides the
Edited on Fri Apr-21-06 11:50 PM by anitar1
fence. but he is just a comedian .Stewart is the clever one.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
5. I guess one can afford to be a major ass clown when one has a
hit show and one is benefiting from the bush tax cuts. It doesn't help us little people out much though. Like he cares. :eyes: I can't watch him because he continually has repukes on and that makes me :puke:
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Rocket Surgeon Donating Member (49 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:32 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. On the converse...
Bill continually has leftists and liberals on who make conservatives puke.

He is hated by both sides. Personally I love watching the man's show! I'm just sad I do not have HBO. I could always download it from the net later, but it doesn't feel right watching it three to five days later (afterall the show is about CURRENT happenings).
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. where could I watch this online? hell even 3-5 days later is ok by me?
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frankenforpres Donating Member (763 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #9
56. BitTorrent
you nead to download a software like bitcomet, and then go to mininova.org ( i think they have real time)
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DemInDistress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #56
63. thanks franken but my computer skills are young.. hopefully one
day I'll learn how to download and trust these sites..
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. I don't hate him, I just don't feel compelled to watch his show when
he continually has repukes on, especially when he knows his audience is liberal and we don't want to be subjected to the lies that his republicans guest spew.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #7
16. he favors the conservatives and panders to them
It would be different if he didn't try to shut down what the liberals are saying so the conservative can have their say. He shushes other panelists and the audience but lets the conservative(s) filibuster. How many times has he had Coulter on and flirted with her? :puke: Maher helped "legitimize" that lying witch along with others like Laura Ingraham.

And everytime he apologizes to the conservative(s) for the audience's reaction by labeling any hint of disagreement with "you're in hostile terrority" or "give him/her a break" instead of calling them on their hypocrisy I want to scream! He gives conservatives a lot of passes than he gives liberals.

And when is Bill going to grow a pair and admit that he was wrong in 2000? There was, and still is, a big difference between Gore and Bush. Yet week after week Maher repeated that GOP mantra.

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Appalachian_American Donating Member (199 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
26. He did, essentially, admit during the 2004 campaign that he was wrong
about there being no differences between Gore and bush. He repeatedly beseeched those who had those thoughts in 2000 to wake up and realize that there was a difference between bush and, basically, anyone else. I think it was more of an indictment of bush than it was admiration of Kerry.

He didn't apologize to Gore or Gore supporters. He blamed Gore, which is how a lot of us felt. Well, I can't speak for everyone, but I didn't support Gore, either, although I would have voted for him if I had lived in a state that was in play. And I did join one of those swap-a-vote deals and agreed to vote for Nader for someone in Oregon, who agreed to vote for Gore. I was voting for Nader, anyway, so it worked out just fine.

However, I would definitely consider voting for Gore if he were to run in 2008, even though I was glad that he didn't run in 2004. Sitting that one out helped him, IMHO.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 08:47 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. He should apologize to Gore.
For all his slander. And for being intellectually dishonest about what really happened in 2000. There was a lynch mob mentality created by the MSM so that even Democrats were turning against Gore. Literally a hostile national groupthink was manufactured against Gore. Because of the relentless spin by both reporters and pundits, people started believing that Gore was this dissembling, self-serving man without a true identity.

Nothing could be further from the truth. He is one of those great pols, like Wellstone or Ben Franklin, who really views his job as serving the republic and the planet.

I would like Maher, just once, to acknowledge the unprecedented, extreme bias of MSM in 2000 and further to acknowledge that Gore has done more on climate change than anyone on the planet.
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0007 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
75. I'll second that!
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:31 PM
Response to Original message
6. I thought his assessment was right on
And maybe Gore has made up for it in the interim, but he's really right about the Democrats' timid inability to say: Yes, we stand up for the environment, and if that means that we have to take a tough stand on business and maybe even lose some jobs, that's hard, but that's the required sacrifice, and we're the only ones who can discover the new jobs for an environment-friendly economy of the future. It is the only kind of economy that has a future, period. You don't hear that enough from Democrats, while the worst are full of passionate intensity on minor issues on the GOP side. Maher was dead on. It hurts when people speak the truth about our side, but that's just an aftereffect of the timidity that he's critiquing in the frst place.
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Admiral Loinpresser Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:07 AM
Response to Reply #6
15. How can it be right?
He specifically mentions Gore by name in his criticism and yet Gore has talked about the issue more than ANY other Democrat, written two major books on it, devoted his life to combatting it and achieved more regarding the issue than any person on the planet (Kyoto Accord). Criticizing Gore on climate change is like saying Mother Theresa didn't do enough for the poor. Maher is a light weight and intellectually dishonest, reducing his attacks to broad generalizations without basis in fact.

He said Gore didn't talk about global warming in 2000. That's false. He emphasized it. If you don't believe me, I can provide links to the speeches I mentioned in OP.
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seaglass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #6
28. Democrats do stand up for the environment but there is no
way they are going to campaign on lost jobs because that is a business/Republican scare tactic, not a fact.

Maher is just uninformed.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #6
35. You don't have to lose jobs
Changing over to alternative energies, creating new technology to protect the environment, eco-friendly ways to farm, log, fish, mine; it all creates jobs. Some people aren't happy unless they hear sit in a hemp hut and eat tofu, that's the problem.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #35
42. In the transition, traditional economy jobs will be lost
as you switch over to the new jobs. Of course it creates jobs. That's obvious. And it is precisely the point that the Democrats have been unable to make that argument because they are so worried about the transition.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Kerry ran on that argument
Where were you??
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. Apparently,. not forcefully enough
Edited on Sat Apr-22-06 02:31 PM by alcibiades_mystery
Since damn few would be able to name it as his major platform plank. Gay marriage, anyone?

I do remember a lot of nonsense about "reporting for duty," etc., though.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #47
48. 48% of the country heard
Maybe if people like you weren't shitting all over him, another couple percent would have heard too. Apparently you were listening to right wingers if all you heard was gay marriage.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. 48% being not enough
Case closed.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #51
52. 48% being
smarter than you.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #52
53. No, because I was in that 48%
I voted for Kerry. Hell, I like Kerry. I think he should run again. Nice try though.

Maher's point remains valid. The Republicans are able to peel away the crucial percentages by strong, consistent arguments on bullshit issues. Like gay marriage. It is a bullshit issue. Yet they push and push and push, and make the forceful arguments. Meanwhile, the Democrats, who should have a REAL issue like the environment wrapped up hands down namby pamby the fucking thing until it is diluted all to shit. Did Kerry argue for the environment? Yes, of course he did. So did Gore. But it was always half-assed and diluted, never front and center, never coordinated, never push push push the other guy is going to fucking kill your kids, no future for your fucking kids if you vote Republican, no fucking future, disaster - because that's real, that's what will happen with the environment if we keep on as we've been keeping on. The namby pamby shit must end.

Hell, I like Kerry, I'll say again. And I sure as shit voted for him, despite your little fascist implication. But Maher is right, sho nuf.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #53
58. Fear against fear??
Is that what you think will win? Democrats have been accused of playing to people's fears for years. Scaring old people on social security. Scaring minorities with threats of lynchings and segregation. And yes, scaring people with threats of poison in the air and water that'll destroy the planet in 20 years. Sorry to tell you, but the left over-played that hand years ago.

You don't think gay marriage is a real issue??? Hmmm, you don't appear to understand how your scaring the pants off people strategy really works, you don't think gay marriage was a real issue to anybody. Yet you think you've got the answer to win elections. I live in very liberal Oregon. We had a gay marriage amendment on the ballot. Every single county except one voted for the amendment, every single one. People do value their marriages and it is an issue to them. The environment is an issue too, but they're way past the point where scare tactics are needed to influence them. They want answers, answers that resolve economic as well as environmental issues.

The Democratic Party has traditionally campaigned with the assistance of interest groups. Sadly, too many of these interest groups insist on hanging on to the scare tactics of the past and consequently are of no help to a solution oriented campaign and in many ways hurt the message a national campaign is trying to get out. I've seen it on DU many many times, people who didn't understand the message because it didn't mesh with their personal preferences. Then they try to put that on the entire population, who did understand the message or the vote would have reflected that. Like the 40% of the electorate Democrats got between Humphrey and Dukakis.

We should go back to that?? That's where your kind of politics would take us.

48% of the population heard John Kerry's message. 49% heard Al Gore's. The US is an economically oriented country. You either frame the issues to match that reality, or you go down in flames.
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alcibiades_mystery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. Has nothing to do with interest groups or fear
It has to do with national consequences for a particular set of national practices.

In any case, 48% ain't enough, and that's plain as day. That means the message is weakly transmitted, especially a real message on something like the environment that does, in fact (not in fantasy, like gay marriage) affect everyone. We should take responsibility for the message failing. The last thing I would do is put it on the "sheeple" or any other such asinine concept. Which seems to be Maher's point. Your beef with "interest groups" seems to be your thing here, though it is utterly irrelevant. I suppose I'm supposed to be in the "Free Mumia" camp because I think that the Democratic Party has failed to push a message strongly enough. I'll leave you to your imagination on that score, as it is not a game I'm interested in.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #60
61. kill your kids, disaster, no future, push push push
That's what you said. That's a campaign of fear. When we ran those campaigns, we got 40%. That's a fact.

Yes, WE should take responsibility for the message failing because ultimately, WE, the people, are the ones who talk to our friends and family and neighbors. I'm telling you that the ones you want to reach are very concerned about the environment but they don't want to hear save every tree and blade of grass, stop grazing cattle, never mine again, and oh yeah, ride a bike. They are solution oriented and environmental interest groups are opposition oriented. Push the wrong message, you push those voters away.

And they do matter. The Democratic grassroots are supposed to be our interest groups. Democrats aren't supposed to have to worry about them because they were supposed to be building a core of voters over the last 20 years. They didn't, so now the party is going to have to do it for itself.
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 09:21 AM
Response to Reply #47
73. He did NOT run on gay marriage
1) His position was for civil unions, not gay marriage - He never (to my knowlege) brought the issue up unless asked it.

Glad YOU bought the Republican frame of the election
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 09:15 AM
Response to Reply #42
72. Kerry not only ran on the need for this transition,
Edited on Sun Apr-23-06 09:18 AM by karynnj
he long ago spelled out that we have no choice on whether the jobs will be lost, the transition represents an opportunity.

Here are Senate floor comments from when NAFTA was voted on in 1993, that show early comments that were expanded in his 2004 positions.

From Thomas:
Mr. KERRY. Mr. President, not a day goes by now without significant change in our economy.

And not a day goes by when the opponents and the proponents of NAFTA do not seize on the story as evidence for their cause.

To paraphrase a line from Tina Turner, when it comes to the sea change underway in America today, what's NAFTA got to do with it?

The answer, Mr. President, is, much less than we are led to believe.

Opponents claim the treaty will cause our jobs to go south and cheap goods will come flooding back in, sending more jobs back south.

But the fact is, many jobs are going south now, unimpeded and unregulated by the environmental and labor law controls that NAFTA would impose for the first time between our two countries.

And as for those cheap goods, the tariff barriers in place today are mostly Mexican, not American. Their tariffs are 2 1/2 times larger than ours, on average. It's our goods that are prevented from going there, not the other way around. But you would never know that from all the anti-NAFTA rhetoric.

The proponents of NAFTA will tell you something like 200,000 net new jobs will be created in the United States by the year 1996. No new job is to be sneered at, but 200,000 jobs is approximately what the U.S. economy created in one fairly mediocre month, July of this year, in the middle of a so-called jobless recovery.

Let's put this job promise in perspective. Two weeks ago an article in the New York Times estimated that electronic bar code readers alone--the devices that so fascinated George Bush last year--bar code readers alone have eliminated 400,000 jobs in America.

So, what's NAFTA got to do with it, indeed.

It strikes me that in reality, the debate over NAFTA is not a debate about who's right and who's wrong. It's a debate about the future--about placing a bet on the future, on how the Mexicans will act, and how we will act.

The NAFTA opponents believe that the bet is too risky, because the Mexicans will not live up to their agreements. But the truth is NAFTA is not risky because of what the Mexicans will do--it's risky because of what we are failing to do for ourselves right now. It is a risk augmented by our failure to enunciate and aggressively pursue a national policy for the creation and retention of high-skill, high-wage jobs and preparation of our current and future workers to perform well in those jobs.

And in the absence of a clear, unmistakable, and forceful national strategy to create those jobs and move our workers into them, NAFTA might very well be doomed, a scapegoat for the much larger frustration in our country over our failure to deal with the massive changes underway in the economy, changes which are pushing up to 70 percent of our work force down the ladder of opportunity--changes which promise to claim more workers if we do not take action.

In many ways, we are witnessing the most rapid change in the workplace in this country since the postwar era began. For a majority of working Americans, the changes are utterly at odds with the expectations they nurtured growing up.

Millions of Americans grew up feeling they had a kind of implied contract with their country, a contract for the American dream. If you applied yourself, got an education, went to work, and worked hard, then you had a reasonable shot at an income, a home, time for family, and a graceful retirement.

Today, those comfortable assumptions have been shattered by the realization that no job is safe, no future assured. And many Americans simply feel betrayed.

To this day I'm not sure that official Washington fully comprehends what has happened to working America in the last 20 years, a period when the incomes of the majority declined in real terms.

In the decade following 1953, the typical male worker, head of his household, aged 40 to 50, saw his real income grow 36 percent. The 40-something workers from 1963 to 1973 saw their incomes grow 25 percent. The 40-something workers from 1973 to 1983 saw their incomes decline, by 14 percent, and reliable estimates indicate that the period of 1983 to 1993 will show a similar decline.

From 1969 to 1989 average weekly earnings in this country declined from $387 to $335. No wonder then, that millions of women entered the work force, not simply because the opportunity opened for the first time. They had no choice. More and more families needed two incomes to support a family, where one had once been enough.

It began to be insufficient to have two incomes in the family. By 1989 the number of people working at more than one job hit a record high. And then even this was not enough to maintain living standards. Family income growth simply slowed down. Between 1979 and 1989 it grew more slowly than at any period since World War II. In 1989 the median family income was only $1,528 greater than it had been 10 years earlier. In prior decades real family income would increase by that same amount every 22 months. When the recession began in 1989, the average family's inflation-adjusted income fell 4.4 percent, a $1,640 drop, or more than the entire gain from the eighties.

Younger people now make less money at the beginning of their careers, and can expect their incomes to grow more slowly than their parents'. Families headed by persons aged 25 to 34 in 1989 had incomes $1,715 less than their counterparts did 10 years earlier, in 1979. Evidence continues to suggest that persons born after 1945 simply will not achieve the same incomes in middle-age that their parents achieved.

Thus, Mr. President, it is a treadmill world for millions of Americans. They work hard, they spend less time with their families, but their incomes don't go up. The more their incomes stagnate, the more they work. The more they work, the more they leave the kids alone, and the more they need child care. The more they need child care, the more they need to work.

Why are we surprised at the statistics on the hours children spend in front of the television; about illiteracy rates; about teenage crime and pregnancy? All the adults are working and too many kids are raising themselves.

Of course, there is another story to be found in the numbers. Not everyone is suffering from a declining income. Those at the top of the income scale are seeing their incomes increase, and as a result income inequality in this Nation is growing dramatically. Overall, the 30 percent of our people at the top of the income scale have secured more and more, while the bottom 70 percent have been losing. The richest 1 percent saw their incomes grow 62 percent during the 1980's, capturing a full 53 percent of the total income growth among all families in the entire economy. This represents a dramatic reversal of what had been a post-war trend toward equality in this country. It also means that the less well-off in our society--the same Americans who lost out in the Reagan tax revolution--are the ones being hurt by changes in the economy.

You might say that we long ago left the world of Ward and June Clever. We have entered the world of Roseanne and Dan, and the yuppies from `L.A. Law' working downtown.

Many, many commentators have explained how the assumptions from that long-ago world will cripple us if we do not have the courage to look at today's economy with a clear eye.

Back then, we were the only economic superpower. American companies had virtually no competition and, since they produced almost entirely in the United States, their workers felt no particular threat from workers abroad. This was the era when `Made in Japan' meant something was cheap--not good, just cheap.

Throughout the 1950's and 1960's productivity was rising rapidly throughout the American economy, so that people could expect over time to work less, but earn more.

Back then, free trade for America meant more markets for America, not competition. We maintained the Bretton Woods rules, the GATT, and other treaty obligations not only to buttress the free world against communism, and not only out of the goodness of our hearts; we enforced a basic level of stability in the world because a stable world meant open markets for us, and we made the products people most wanted to buy.

Back then, large corporations and large unions set the pace for middle-class prosperity. Remember it was Henry Ford, no fan of unions, who created the mass production line to turn out cars cheaply--cheaply enough so that his own workers could buy them. When he finally capitulated to the United Auto Workers, he gave his workers the largest settlement of the Big Three.

In those days, Fortune 500 companies controlled well over 50 percent of our total economy, and employed three-quarters of our manufacturing work force. If the New Deal built the floor for personal security in America, the corporate economy put up the middle-class safety net, with pension plans and health insurance.

In those days, American families lived on one man's paycheck, from one job that lasted with one company for an entire lifetime.

If you were laid off, you were laid off for the duration, and you were called back when business picked up.

No more.

And two key words summarize the difference: globalization and technology. Each one feeds the other. Each one confronts American employers with a choice: Can I beat the competition by making a stand in America with my own workers, or must I beat the competition by going abroad? Will my workers join the ranks of the 70 percent falling behind, or will they join the ranks of the 30 percent--or fewer--who will get ahead?

The dynamics of this are familiar to anybody who works. Technology, particularly computer technology, makes it possible to move production anywhere in the world. Technology makes it possible for formerly large corporations to make do with drastically fewer people at home. Remember those bar-code readers.

Increasingly freer trade amongst nations means that competition comes from low-wage workers in developing countries, or from high-skilled, highly productive workers in the industrialized countries.
The choice is a stark one: either a nation must secure more technology and become more productive or it must underbid all others for labor and other costs. Most countries understand that this is a choice they have to make.

I submit to you, Mr. President, that this is a choice which we are not making, and the consequence is that the choice is being made for us--toward low costs, leading to the unprecedented wave of downsizing underway in our economy.


Two weeks ago an American Management Association survey reported that nearly half of the companies polled had reduced their work forces in the last year. A quarter reported that they will do so again in the coming year, some for the second or third time in 5 years, and experience shows that the number of companies that eventually downsize is twice the number that predict they will.

Workers who are downsized in today's environment are not out for the duration. They are out for good, and their ability to climb back into the economy is utterly dependent on the match between their skills and the needs of the small and midsized companies which now represent the pivot point for American economic success. Central to this division is skills: those that have them win, those that do not have them lose.

Workers with high skills can reap the rewards of the new technology, which is higher productivity. Higher productivity is not only the basis of increased pay, it is the ticket of admission to world markets, hence to growth, hence to new jobs and higher pay.

Recently Princeton economist Alan Krueger showed that workers who used computers on the job earned a 10- to 15-percent higher wage rate than otherwise similar workers. On the basis of this study, Microsoft Corp., the software giant, ran advertisements in Time magazine and elsewhere declaring `we make it easier to get a 15-percent raise.'

On the other hand, there is a growing disadvantage to not being well educated and flexibly skilled. Workers with lower skills find that technology either eliminates their jobs or moves them overseas. It is this disadvantage that lower skilled

workers face in the new global, high-technology economy that explains why they are faring increasingly poorly in terms of wages and incomes. It is these lower-skilled workers who are having the rug pulled out from under them. And it is no wonder they are scared by NAFTA .

Now, I do not come to this issue as some latter-day luddite, ready to smash bar code scanners in the supermarket and wall off our borders from foreign imports.

I believe that the change we are witnessing--whether we like it or not--is inevitable. What is not inevitable is our passivity, and our inability to make change work for, instead of against, American workers.

In the past few months I have visited any number of companies in my home State of Massachusetts that have made technology work for them and their workers. Through aggressive R&D, advanced manufacturing technology, and continuous worker training and involvement, they have maintained and often increased manufacturing jobs in Massachusetts, a State where manufacturing is supposedly dead and buried. These include the Bose Corp., a major player in the Japanese hi-fi and automotive parts market, thanks to its constant innovation; and Modicon Corp., which brought jobs back from Asia when it radically upgraded technology and workplace organization. In my State, you simply cannot create new manufacturing jobs with a low-skill, low-wage strategy. You must go the high-technology, high-skill route, and you must export.

The question is, Are we going to learn from the Boses and the Modicons?

Other nations, notably Japan and Germany, have structured their entire economies around the goal of employing their citizens in well-paying jobs. This is the goal toward which government, industry, and individuals work together.

This happened in part because they were poor in natural resources and had small home markets. And so in order to become industrialized nations they were forced to export. At an early stage, therefore, international competition became their obsession. And economic considerations often dominated foreign and security policy. They were not afraid--in part as a result of cultural differences--of an economic model where big business and big government worked together to promote long-term job creation.

But in this country, Mr. President, we are still lacking a strategy that sends out an unmistakable signal to every American that the highest priority of the American Government and American industry is ensuring that Americans have the ability to get good

jobs--maybe not one job for their entire lives, but one or a series of jobs that will support their families for the entirety of their careers.

This strategy needs to address the insecurity that people feel for their economic future and in order to do so it must recognize the centrality of education and training--two priorities on which President Clinton rightly focused during the campaign.

In 1949, we spent 9 percent of our Federal budget on education. We now spend less than 3 percent. An estimated 83 million Americans have inadequate reading skills and the United States is the only major industrialized nation in the world with no formal system or structure to facilitate the school-to-work transition. Federal support for vocational education has declined approximately 30 percent in real dollars over the last decade. Meanwhile, such competitors as Germany spend dramatically more on training the best educated and now the highest-paid workers in the world. American students attend school for 180 days per year while Japanese children go to school for 243 days and German children for 240 days. This means that our children attend school for 25 percent less time each year than their future competitors.

This is unacceptable. There is no question that our priorities have become skewed. The space station will cost us $2 billion this year, while the Federal Government will spend only $630 million on primary and secondary education. Over 80 percent of prison inmates are dropouts, and they each cost us between $15,000 and $30,000 per year to incarcerate. This situation is totally unacceptable.

We should be prepared to use any mechanism necessary to find more money to invest in our one true asset--our people. We can find this money in pork-barrel projects; in entitlement programs; we can reexamine the issue of the gas tax--surely Americans would be willing to pay a few more pennies a gallon to educate our children for the global competition they will face. There are many other places we can look for the resources--if we are serious and committed to the objective.

We need to begin by quickly funneling more money into our education budget. I strongly support Senator Jefford's suggestion that we add money to education spending in increments of 1 percent of the Federal budget until it accounts for 10 percent in the year 2004. I also agree with Senator Simon and Senator Dodd that we must abandon property tax supported education which leads to inequities among school systems.

Next, we need to quickly put in place the School-to-Work Program on which the President and Senator Kennedy have been

working. And we must not be shy about fully funding these, either. This is no place to be penny wise and pound foolish.

We must quickly enact the Worker Adjustment Program that Secretary Reich has been drafting--and I believe that we should attach it to the NAFTA as part of the implementing legislation to ensure that full help is available for all workers who need it. In addition to streamlining our disparate adjustment programs, this plan would make unemployment insurance flexible so that workers could use it as income support while they retrain--a need that did not exist when the UI system was designed to buttress workers who were temporarily laid off. It will also put the Federal Government in the business of smoothing out the labor market's information flows--so that displaced workers can find out where jobs are, what kinds of skills they require, and how they can obtain them.


And I believe, Mr. President, that we should go beyond the administration's current proposals and create an Incumbent Worker Training Program. During the campaign, President Clinton discussed encouraging companies to train their workers and I feel that we must return to that concept. We cannot wait to do this until our companies lose the global competition and our workers are downsized out of their jobs. We must help them retain the jobs they have by ensuring that they are the most technically adept in the world.

But it is not enough, Mr. President, to say `if we train them, the jobs will come.' Because the jobs may not come. A recent 2-year study of the American system of capital investment by researchers at the Harvard Business School raises the question of whether U.S. companies are sufficiently focused on the long-term to be competitive and to create high-wage jobs.

The report points out that leading American firms in many industries are outinvested by their Japanese counterparts; that the R&D portfolios of American firms include a smaller share of long-term projects than those of European and Japanese firms and that American firms invest at a lower rate than both Japanese and German firms in intangible assets--such as human resource development. The report relays the fact that American CEO's believe that their firms have shorter investment horizons than their international competitors. As a result, they sometimes confuse cutting back and downsizing with a solution--restructuring may give a short-term lift to a company's stock but unless the savings are invested in productive assets, it will not help the company compete better with its German rivals over the long run.

This would explain why the Bose Co., which I mentioned a few moments ago, feels the need to remain proudly privately held in order to continue investing in R&D and its workers without

pressure from Wall Street? Surely something needs to be changed if our capital system forces companies to take a short-term view when their international competitors are resolutely focused on the long-term.

In order to encourage U.S. companies to invest in their long-term growth, we must make permanent the R&D tax credit; we must put in place a full capital gains tax cut for long-term investments; we must make available support for the Department of Commerce's Advanced Technology Program as well as its manufacturing extension programs; and we must take the lead in communicating that both the private sector and the public sector should make people the center of any industrial policy.

There is plenty of evidence that the Mexicans have learned the lesson from Germany and Japan that a national strategy focused on creating high-wage jobs is a necessity in the new global economy. An influential Business Week article pointed out months ago that Mexico has no intention of settling for millions of low-wage jobs supporting high-wage jobs in the United States.

President Carlos Salinas' dream is the creation of millions of high-wage jobs in Mexico. As I mentioned earlier, the real thing for us to be wary of, if NAFTA passes, is not that Mexico will welch on the deal, and not even that ti will comply with a vengeance. What must concern us is that we will fall short.

After all, it is President Salinas who declared 6 years ago that he would slay hyperinflation, drastically reduce debt, and liberate job creation in Mexico. That's exactly what he did.

It is our political system which declared that it would eradicate the Federal deficit, and create millions of well-paid jobs to replace those that went abroad in one long `morning for America.' Need I say more?

So, Mr. President, when it comes to trade with Mexico, we have met the enemy, and it is us.

Millions of Americans understand this in their bones. They understand our stake in following the path of high-skill, high-wage jobs, and in electing Bill Clinton last year they expressed their belief that Government must play a role.

But when it comes to NAFTA , Mr. President, a treaty that even proponents concede will create some short-term job loss, the debate has become a game of `who do you trust?'

And the people are not in a trusting mood.

We have yet to see the implementing legislation or to have an inkling of how much money will be found to pay for cleaning up the border or providing training for workers. We have yet to see if we will invest in the American worker before we increase his vulnerability.

With so much of the NAFTA package left to be seen, to, at this time, call the package a resounding success or a resounding failure seems somewhat premature.


We should use NAFTA as the wake-up call to attend to the real agenda of this Nation. We should do what President Clinton called on us to do in his campaign, put people first.

My urgent plea to the President, and to the leaders of my own party is that we go back to the people, back to the same dialog from last year's campaign about putting people first, and that we resolve to enact a clear and effective strategy for ensuring each American the means to find a job paying a livable wage throughout his or her lifetime, no matter how the international economy may buffet us.

I would like to thank the distinguished Senator from North Carolina for permitting me to make this lengthy statement.

I yield the floor.

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mucifer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:35 PM
Response to Original message
8. Years ago he was rude to Studs Terkel. He lost all my respect.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-21-06 11:50 PM
Response to Original message
13. He just needs someone to point it out...back then the issue was freeped
People back in 2000 were still uncertain about global warming. Yes, I do remember Bradley (who I supported) and Gore discussing the issue...but the average voter was still a little freeped about the issue, thanks to real assclowns like Ruch Limpole who called it "environmental wackos" horseplay...

Bill does indeed need to do his homework.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
14. The mainstream media ignored or distorted everything Gore said in 2000!
Maher has a very high opinion of his own opinion.
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Panda1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:19 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. Yes, he has
And he's an opportunist who will play both sides to get a laugh and a fat paycheck. He still backs the war in Iraq. How dare he even mention Gore. His GOOD FRIEND, M'Ann Coulter sure liked to shred Gore at every opportunity. He's an entertainer and not interested in the truth. I have zero respect for him. At times he's amusing. A stopped clock is right twice a day.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:19 AM
Response to Original message
17. Then you should probably turn the channel.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. If the guest lineup was available elsewhere I would
and when they are I'll gladly watch it them there. In the meantime I'm one of the many people who don't care for Maher but don't have much of an opportunity to watch the guests that appear on his show (Gen. Zinni, Cindy Sheehan, Kevin Phillips, Reza Aslan, Richard Belzer, etc.) and have an opportunity to say more than a few sound bites. Of course there are those times when Bill feels his guest has gone over the line, like when Richard Belzer, who was speaking the truth, was shushed by Maher who then told Belzer he should apologize to that RW twit Ileana Ros-Lehtinen.

I watch the Sunday morning shows for the same reason, the guests and what they say, not for the hosts who too often fall short on asking any real questions for fear of alienating guests. It's pretty sad when there isn't much to choose from. Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster that KO's Countdown reruns after Maher's show. It helps clean my palate until Sunday morning.
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guidod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #20
41. I watch his show for the same reason,
I like the guests. As far as Bill goes, I could take him or leave him. Remember, it's nothing more than a comedy show. He's not on the show to get a message across, he's just out to get a laugh.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #41
77. Unfortunately, political entertainers like Rush Limbaugh & Maher
are a big part of the problem because their commentaries help perpetuate too many myths and give fodder to the enemies to exploit. This is particularly true when Limbaugh, O'Reilly and Maher do their little pontifications. Believe it or not there are people who believe the things that are said.

I think it is disengenous of Maher when he hammers on Gore for not making the environment the make or break issue of the 2000 campaign. The RW had beat up on Gore back in '92 as the Ozone Man. Things have changed on the environmental front since 2000 mostly as a direct result of Katrina. Up until then most people weren't sure or didn't care about global climate change. Katrina woke a lot of people up. It also opened questions as to whether or not the United States was safer as a result of the card blanche that has been exercised by the Bushies.

Maher acts like Gore turned his back on the environmental issue in 2000. He didn't. Here's what Gore said in the first debate, in response to the first question:

MODERATOR: And now the first question as determined by a flip of a coin, it goes to Vice President Gore. Vice President Gore, you have questioned whether Governor Bush has the experience to be President of the United States. What exactly do you mean?

GORE: Well, Jim, first of all, I would like to thank the sponsors of this debate and the people of Boston for hosting the debate. I would like to thank Governor Bush for participating, and I would like to say I'm happy to be here with Tipper and our family. I have actually not questioned Governor Bush's experience. I have questioned his proposals. And here is why. I think this is a very important moment for our country. We have achieved extraordinary prosperity. And in this election, America has to make an important choice. Will we use our prosperity to enrich not just the few, but all of our families? I believe we have to make the right and responsible choices. If I'm entrusted with the presidency, here are the choices that I will make. I will balance the budget every year. I will pay down the national debt. I will put Medicare and Social Security in a lockbox and protect them. And I will cut taxes for middle-class families. I believe it's important to resist the temptation to squander our surplus. If we make the right choices, we can have a prosperity that endures and enriches all of our people. If I'm entrusted with the presidency, I will help parents and strengthen families because, you know, if we have prosperity that grows and grows, we still won't be successful unless we strengthen families by, for example, ensuring that children can always go to schools that are safe. By giving parents the tools to protect their children against cultural pollution. I will make sure that we invest in our country and our families. And I mean investing in education, health care, the environment, and middle-class tax cuts and retirement security. That is my agenda and that is why I think that it's not just a question of experience. http://www.debates.org/pages/trans2000a.html


And later in that same debate Gore talked about the importance of alternative energy and the environment in answer to a question about future oil prices and supply:

MODERATOR: I have an idea. If you have any more to say about this, you can say it in your closing statements and we'll move on, okay? New question. Vice President Gore. How would you contrast your approach to preventing future oil price and supply problems like we have now to the approach of Governor Bush?

GORE: Excellent question. And here is the simple difference. My plan has not only a short-term component, but also a long-term component. And it focuses not only on increasing the supply, which I think we have to do, but also on working on the consumption side. Now, in the short-term we have to free ourselves from the domination of the big oil companies that have the ability to manipulate the price from OPEC when they want to raise the price. And in the long-term we have to give new incentives for the development of domestic resources like deep gas in the western Gulf, like stripper wells for oil, but also renewable sources of energy. And domestic sources that are cleaner and better. And I'm proposing a plan that will give tax credits and tax incentives for the rapid development of new kinds of cars and trucks and buses and factories and boilers and furnaces that don't have as much pollution, that don't burn as much energy, and that help us get out on the cutting edge of the new technologies that will create millions of new jobs. Because, when we sell these new products here, we'll then be able to sell them overseas. There is a ravenous demand for them overseas. Now, another big difference is Governor Bush is proposing to open up some of our most precious environmental treasures, like the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for the big oil companies to go in and start producing oil there. I think that is the wrong choice. It would only give us a few months' worth of oil and the oil wouldn't start flowing for many years into the future. I don't think it's a fair price to pay to destroy precious parts of America's environment. We have to bet on the future and move beyond the current technologies to have a whole new generation of more efficient, cleaner, energy technology.


To say, repeatedly, like Maher does, that Gore pushed the enviroment to the back burner is wrong. Gore talked about the environment every chance he could. Like they did in 2004 the RW pushed the issues they wanted and the media went along. The RW didn't want either election to be about actual policies or issues rather they engaged in character assassination.
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judaspriestess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:48 AM
Response to Original message
21. His show is about politics
and sadly there are repukes in politics. I like it when he has those assholes on. It amazes me how they live in this warped bubble and I find it fascinating how they rationalize things.... its hilarious.

You gotta know your enemy and its rational to defeat it.
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Bzzzz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:55 AM
Response to Reply #21
27. Ditto...n/t
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medeak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:51 AM
Response to Original message
22. He's an ENTERTAINER!
cricky..people don't take him seriously.. his best friend is Ann Coulter. They both just want to push buttons.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:54 AM
Response to Original message
23. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
wisteria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:57 AM
Response to Original message
24. He has selective memory sometimes. n/t
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lwcon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 07:08 AM
Response to Original message
29. I like the show but...
... when he's wrong on an issue like he is on Gore, he just never gets the message and keeps on spreading misinformation.

My pet one of these is how he keeps cutting Bush slack on FISAgate because he (Maher) lives near a port and worries that terrorism there might not be discovered if the feds had to wait for a court order -- despite the well-documented fact that FISA searches can begin in advance of court orders.

The show obviously has some good writers and researchers. So is he, like Bush, unapproachable by subordinates who must know he's wrong?

___

Hey, the liberal light is always on at the Vast Left-Wing Conspiracy. Please stop by and say "hi!"

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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
30. I cannot stand Bill Maher
creepy SOB
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joeprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 08:50 AM
Response to Original message
32. Did anyone notice he went into his environment speech
right after he siad we shouldn't be sending e-cards. Does Bill realize cards are made from paper and to purchase them requires extra gasoline? I usually agree with Bill on most things but he got this one wrong.
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madmunchie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:55 AM
Response to Reply #32
37. Hey, that is a great point! You should e-mail his show with it
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
34. As did Kerry - Maher makes the same complaint
Energy Independence was at the heart of his economic policy, he spoke of walking away from Kyoto negotiations all the time too. Maher is an idiot, he listens to what the media tells him the candidates said, NOT what candidates and other Democrats are actually saying. Huge problem with a lot of people, Maher should be better than that.
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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
36. He was born without a backbone.
I would never want to depend on Bill Maher in a crisis.



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Eurobabe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
38. I used to think he was funny, but now he's just a jerk
Don't DVR his show anymore. So there...
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
39. Kick
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
40. Bill Maher IS funny; he's also not a Democrat.
I admire his genuine concern for the environment. His frustration is palpable; I see much of that kind of frustration dump here on DU so I would expect more insight into this. I think he was wishing Gore had made the environment his signature issue.

If anyone was an assclown on that show, it was the woman. Her mouth was open virtually nonstop. Yikes.
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Blue_In_AK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. She was a real piece of work, wasn't she?
I was amused at the way she was second-guessing the general, as if she knew so much more about conditions in the Middle East than he did. There's nothing worse than a know-it-all who knows it all WRONG.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. ain't that the truth?
And there was much of her brilliant expertise to be had, wasn't there?

Zinni was much too polite. Her dig at the "two-star generals not being in the loop" was truly desperate.

This particular brand of Republican has set a new standard for apologists of failed regime.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:16 PM
Response to Reply #40
57. Maher's a Libertarian, he says that alot....
His humor is an equal opportunity political bashing style. I still like him, then again, I've read his books :) Saw his Victory show on Broadway :loveya:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #57
64. lucky
I kinda like an equal opportunity political basher. Keeps us honest.
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wizdum Donating Member (531 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #40
67. Are you referring to the redhead on the show this week?
Because if you are, I agree with you. She was truly a miss know it all. What does she have - a PhD in everything (except manners)? Talk about fillibuster!!! Cripes. She needed her pie hole superglued.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #67
68. And spewing lies nonstop about Iraq!!!
What was that with this Iraq had MORE electricity, sewer, clean water and oil than before the war. I don't know HOW she could spin that when it's a total LIE!!!

I felt like screaming at the woman: okay, you think it's so great in Iraq, then YOU go there. And then the next time it rains you'll have to walk through the sewer flooded streets afterwards, and put up with constant power outages.

THAT's what makes me mad about Maher's show more than anything else. Constant misinformation with NOBODY there smart enough and knowledgeable enough to correct it.
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wizdum Donating Member (531 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #68
74. Maher should have shut that bleeping bimbo down for sure...
He should have told her to button it up! And he should have challenged her about her outrageous assertions about Iraq by challenging her to go there, then come back with a full report. She was so annoying I may never watch his show again. Maher has a self righteous streak himself, but he really gave her too much leeway to run her mouth with her ignoramus assertions. He needs to better direct the discussion on his show and keep his guests honest and mannerly.
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leanin_green Donating Member (823 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #40
76. I know, I couldn't help yelling at the screen telling her to STFU!
Especially when she would talk over the General. He handled it so well, I thought. You could tell he just wanted to backhand her. I could tell, because he'd usually just clasp his hands together in front of him on the desk and would just let her show how foolish she was. I mean, your asking questions about the tactical aspects of Iraq and Iran and your not even getting any information from the best source on the subject sitting right in front of you. I think Maher could have done a better job of controlling his guests and directing the conversation, ie., telling this woman to give some room for other responses.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 06:06 PM
Response to Reply #76
78. me too
you could park a car in her mouth if she held it still long enough.
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Clarkie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 01:27 PM
Response to Original message
45. opps...I was confusing Bill Maher with Bill Moyers.
Edited on Sat Apr-22-06 01:32 PM by Clarkie1
I meant to say I think Bill Moyers would make a good president.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
50. His being critical of 1 facet of Al Gore makes him a major ass clown?
Even if Maher was wrong about that one facet, it's not like he's an ass clown in general. Personally, I love guys like Maher who stand up the the neocon bullshit like he does. I love Al Gore, too.
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 04:50 PM
Response to Original message
54. Al Gore's most prominent philosophical subject area .
it's the ENVIRONMENT .....

NO ONE spoke more about Global Warming than Albert Gore ....

NOT George Bush ....

and CERTAINLY NOT Bill Maher ...

This is more BULLSHIT .....
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
59. I usually enjoy Maher's Real Time
But last night was bad. Very bad. Worse than I've ever seen him, even when he's sucked up to Coulter.

You know when the most "liberal" member of his panel is Republican Tony Zinni, he's scraping the bottom.

And then when Maher went into his screed about the environment, I was shouting at the TV. Al Gore worked his butt off for the environment. John Kerry campaigned on it. Wes Clark has made it a pillar of his vision statement, and it was one of the four "Family Values" he addressed in every stump speech.

Maher was a total idiot last nite.
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incapsulated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
62. The problem with Bill Maher...
He takes no control over his own show and leaves it open to be hijacked by whatever loudmouthed rethug he has on "for balance". I've sworn I'm not going to watch any more of his shows that have any repuke on.

He is also far less clever than he clearly thinks he is.

He was especially stupid last night.

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:07 PM
Response to Original message
65. Oh, I so agree with you!!!
This last show, here was how it swung out:

20% Bush bashing
50% Democratic bashing
30% Republican crapola spin from the worst guest panel ever

I mean, the "liberal" on the show was Gen. Zinni -- now he says many things that I agree with, but a liberal he is not. And even when there are liberals on, they tend to be ignorant of what Dems are doing, and whine about how the Dems are doing "nothing", which is just a total lie!!

Bill Maher may seem like he's on our side but he isn't. He doesn't even get his facts straight on Democrats. We have had two fine outstanding Democrats in a row whose records on the environment are impeccable. With all of Bill Maher's whining, either Gore or Kerry would have done an excellent job on the environment. But instead he bashes them, without figuring out that the media completely IGNORED the global warming problem until really 2005. Before that it was about a "debate", but with that 60 Minutes episode last fall, finally, yes, finally the media was willing to say "yep, it's real" (it may have to do with the fact that it's pretty hard to spin melted ice that's not coming back). I think '08 may have a big environment debate, but before that, even if Gore and Kerry spoke until blue in the face about the environment, the media wouldn't have shown it, and instead used the time to make fun of their mannerisms or some imagined flaw in their personalities.

I swear to God, I need to stop watching that show it's so bad and full of ignorance.
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wizdum Donating Member (531 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-22-06 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
66. Maher should give Gore a break.
Gore deserves alot of respect for his stance on the environment, and he continues to speak out in defense of it. He singlehandedly flew to Japan and saved Kyoto at the 11th hour. Maher can be quite a whiner. He should stop beating up on Gore. I regret everyday that the election was stolen from him. That was one of the biggest tragedies this country has ever seen.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 02:55 AM
Response to Original message
69. My favorite website to counter the spin is Daily Howler
They mythbusted several things I thought I knew about Gore, and helped me desheeple myself.

Gore is a good man. People who didn't realize it weren't paying attention, and tried to make that Gore's fault. Shame on them.
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jillan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-23-06 03:17 AM
Response to Original message
70. He sounded like a repug this weekend when he was calling
Kerry a flip-flopper in the beginning of the show, and then
ended it by bashing Gore's campaign.

Did somebody slip him some Kool-Aid?
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