Co-worker has me shaking mad about torture...

[CATagious]

I was just looking at some of the torture pics from Abu Graihb, when a freeping, bible thumping co-worker looked over my shoulder and made a comment. I don't recall the initial remarks, but I asked him if he approved of the torture and he said 'No' but then immediately started rationalizing and using technicalities as a defense. I told him that it was a violation of international law and he said that technically it wasn't since they weren't official POWs since they did not wear a uniform. He also said that because of their culture, torture is the only thing that can get their attention.
I told him it sounds like he approves of torturing. Now he's sending me links to why the torturing was not against Geneva Convention. I can't even talk to him right now, making me nauseated. And he calls himself a Christian!

[The Magistrate]

1. It Is Against The Geneva Conventions, Sir

There are no honest statements to the contrary. It will be interesting to see what this wretch sends you....

[jumpoffdaplanet]

2. Ask him who Jesus would torture

Or what he would say to Jesus to defend the practice.

[Coexist]

3. tell him that if he has to rationalize why torture is okay

then he truly does not believe that torture is wrong.

Maybe hearing from the former NATO Supremem Allied Commander will help:

http://www.muhajabah.com/clarkblog/2006/02/clark_on_torture_and_abuse.php

[Poll_Blind]

4. He hasn't read any of the Geneva Convention(s) himself, guaranteed.

His opinion is of no consequence at all. Relax. I know the feeling you get, but it's just not worth it. He will not learn until he wants to- or is forced to and you're not likely to make either happen anytime soon.

I prefer to give people like that the tender smile I give children when they are righteous about some point they are ignorant about. However, with children it's just lack of experience. In his case, willful ignorance a factor of a magnitude greater sin, at least.

PB

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. You might ask him

where in Jesus's teachings does it say it's okay to torture people?

[Warpy]

6. "That's the most unchristian thing I've ever heard"

will get his attention. Then you recite the golden rule. Then you send him packing.

It's the only thing that will get through to these sanctimonious assholes. They've read those words, they know they're there. You just need to rub their noses in the once in a while.

[alcuno]

7. This is the United States of America.

We don't torture people. Period. We don't refrain from torture simply because it's against the Geneva Convention, we don't do it because this is the United F-ing States of America! This is not about the Geneva Convention so don't get trapped by that nonsense.

And who exactly is it that we are torturing? People who were tried and convicted of a crime? We don't even do it to people in our country who have been found guilty in a court of law of heinous crimes. Now it's okay to torture folks because they weren't wearing a uniform?

[CATagious]

8. I told him the same thing...

after he told me that they do it to us. I told him that I hold the U.S. to a higher standard and don't think we should stoop to their level. How in the hell can we tell other countries to stop violating basic human rights now?!

[4morewars]

12. Au contraire

I see your point alcuno, and maybe, once upon a time, it was true.

But, we DO INDEED torture our own. It happens everyday in this country.

[boobooday]

9. Does this guy walk upright? Do his knuckles drag on the ground?

"because of their culture, torture is the only thing that can get their attention"

:puke:

Uh, thank you, Archie Bunker.

The weirdest thing is how this bloodlust turns the Republicans into the very definition of moral relativists.

[Oversea Visitor]

10. It is so easy to get lost on this issue

But the facts are this

Is torture the only way
The simple logic hence is that we got a choice of which path to take
The justification of torture is just more whisperings in our ear that the path chosen was right

Sorry torture is wrong and to take that path and defend that path does not further the cause of civilisation or goodness of humanity.

There is and will be no excuse for taking a wrong path.

It is not the only solution to a problem
To take this as a path lessen all of humanity
And hence it should be oppose to its fullness
Either that we become taint by this path we follow.

The choice hence it up to the individual
Do you follow the path of goodness
Or do you support a path that will taint our soul.
The choice is there take you pick
For torture is not the only path
Freedom to chose here

[Rainscents]

11. He is NOT Christian!

Even Pope against any sort of tortures.

[land of the free]

13. Get a copy of this month's Harpers

there's a terrific article about the justification for torture, and how it is patently wrong. It will give you some ammo on the discussion.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of people who feel it is okay to torture. This article talks about how they rationalize it, how the "ticking time bomb" theory is used to say it is okay. The article also talks about how people who initially may have had concerns about torturing others become accustomed to it. The writer does a good job of outlining how there is no human or military justification for torturing people we have jailed in Bagram, Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and other prisons.

BTW, sorry your co-worker is an ass.

[CATagious]

16. thanks.. I will go get that.... nm

[land of the free]

19. It's the one with the bold red "IMPEACH HIM"

on the cover. That phrase is right next to a picture of our President. ;)

The case for impeachment of Bush is another excellent read in that issue.

Plus, it's nice to walk around carrying the magazine with a big screaming headline supporting impeachment. I got quite a few smiles as I carried it into a coffee shop today. It's so nice to see so many people are publically against this criminal President of ours!

[unkachuck]

14. it seems like the uniform....

....and not the act of torturing, is the defining element for him....I assume he's not wearing a uniform, so, torture him....

....use the old Chinese water torture....piss on his leg when he's not looking....

[CATagious]

15. haha....

thanks for the laugh! I needed it.

[baldguy]

17. Do you know why Middle-eastern Mulims hate America?

Its because we murder their children.

[LiberalFighter]

18. He should know since the history of Christians are used to torture

And they should continue to accept torture against their kind because Jesus told them they should.


(kidding about the Jesus told them... but I am sure that will flabbergast him to no end)

[AtomicKitten]

20. The just don't make Christians like they used to.

The current batch seems to have lost all touch with the teachings of Christ.

[TexasLawyer]

21. US citizens can be tortured, too

by Bush's logic. (see, e.g., US citizen Jose Padilla). Suspects who are walking around in their civilian clothes (because they ARE civilians) can be swept up anywhere in the "war zone"-- which is the GLOBAL war on terror.

If your bible thumping co-worker is located on the planet earth and does not wear an army uniform, then he could very realistically be next in line for the torture chamber.

Heck, if Jesus was alive today, He would fit the bill as well. A rabble-rousing middle-eastern man? -- perfect snarling dog bait. Jesus in a human pyramid. You should have your friend try to visualize that.

If Bush is allowed to ignore FISA, he's allowed to ignore every other domestic law, international law, UN resolution and treaty.

Oh, and he can "legally" ignore the 10 commandments, too.

[mrgorth]

22. Better idea

stop talking to him altogether.

[Vickers]

23. What branch of the military did this uber-patriot serve in?

Surely he learned about the Geneva Convention as part of his military training. :sarcasm:

[htuttle]

24. There is nobody who is not covered by the Geneva Convention

The treaty defines two classes of persons in a conflict: combatants and non-combatants. There are slightly different procedures and responsibilities detailed when dealing with both, but in all cases, torture is prohibited, even in the case of non-uniformed combatants, ie., spies, and partisans, which the treaty does mention.

There is no 'enemy combatant' category defined by the treaty. The Bush administration just made that one up.

Finally, it makes no difference whether the 'enemy' is a signatory to the Convention or not. The Geneva Convention applies either way.

[chemenger]

25. Ask your freeper co-worker

to imagine himself living in Jerusalem back when the Jewish high priests handed Jesus over to Pilate to be tortured and then ultimately executed. Would he have (a)interviened on Jesus' behalf or (b)just go along with the crowd? Remind him that the (conservative) Pharisees and Sadducees considered Jesus to be a very real threat to the establishment (ie; a radical liberal).

Then when he says that he would have intervened on Jesus' behalf you can walk away smugly satisfied, knowing that he's destined for some Purgatory time for lying.

[ldf]

26. simply tell him that

he should give you 5 minutes in a room, alone, with him tied up, with a pot of boiling water, and you can get him to say anything you want him to say.

and you could.