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DJcairo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:45 PM
Original message
Kerry spokesman David Wade hits back at Dean
Statement from Kerry Spokesperson David Wade in Response to Howard Dean’s Comment


January 31, 2004

For Immediate Release


“Apparently this newest of the new anger-powered Howards is a master of desperate distortions. From fighting for opportunity for young people to stopping the drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, John Kerry has spent a lifetime keeping his word and fighting the fights that need fighting.”

“There is a choice between talkers and doers in this presidential campaign. George Bush says one thing and does another. John Kerry fights to put police on the beat, George Bush takes them off the street. John Kerry fights for veterans health care, George Bush lays a wreath at Arlington Cemetery and then tries to cut the V.A. That’s the choice in this race, and we can’t wait for that fight.”
12 Legislative Accomplishments of John Kerry:

Cosponsored Gramm-Rudman-Hollings bipartisan deficit reduction Act. Kerry was one of the earliest Democrats to sign on to the effort to address the growing budget deficit.


Secured assistance for families of Agent Orange victims: Kerry cosponsored and worked to pass the Agent Orange Benefits Act to extend health care benefits to children of Vietnam Veterans who suffer from spina bifida. <1995 VA-HUD Approp>


Passed international anti-money laundering law: John Kerry proposed and passed anti-money laundering amendment that forced negotiations with foreign banks to keep records of US currency transactions of $10,000 & up and established penalties for countries engaged in money laundering. <1988: S Amdt 3697, HR 5210, #374, passed 85-3>


Introduced bill to significantly increase commitment to fighting HIV/AIDS: Kerry introduced, along with Senator Bill Frist (R-TN), the U.S. Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act. The bill would increase the U.S. governments funding of international HIV/AIDS efforts from approximately $1.7 billion in 2003 to $1.9 billion in 2004. This effort led to the unanimous passage in May 2003 the United States Leadership Against HIV/AIDS, TB, and Malaria Act of 2003. AIDS activists characterized Kerry as one of Congress top leaders on HIV/AIDS policy.


Passed law addressing nurse shortage: Kerry introduced and passed the Nurse Reinvestment Act, to address the current shortage of Nurses in the medical profession.


Expanded early childhood development efforts: Kerry introduced legislation to expand state and local early childhood development efforts, including education, child care and health care for children between birth and six years old. At the end of 2000, a version of this bipartisan legislation was signed into law. .


Strengthened protection of seals, dolphin, whales and other marine mammals: Kerry sponsored legislation that extended and strengthened laws protecting Marine Mammals from commercial fishing.


Introduced plan that expanded childrens health insurance coverage: Kerry and Kennedy drafted an innovative plan to help states expand health care coverage for children in the 104th Congress. Their plan served as the framework for the Childrens Health Insurance Program in 1997


Instrumental in passing last minimum wage increase: Kerry was instrumental in passing the last increase in the minimum wage to $5.15 per hour in 1997.


Led fight to defeat Republican regulatory reform that threatened to roll back environmental and safety regulations: Kerry was a leader on the Senate floor to stop Republican efforts to roll back labor, environmental and consumer safety regulations under the guise of regulatory reform.


Led inquiry into savings and loan cleanup: Kerry conducted hearings into waste fraud and abuse in the RTC, the agency responsible for cleaning up the S&L scandal. (1993-94)


Boosted COPS and Police Corps funding: Kerry successfully lobbied the Senate and the administration to move funding from $5.9 billion to $22.2 billion over four years, with the goal of putting 100,000 new cops on the street. He also succeeded in boosting funding for Police Corps scholarship program.

http://johnkerry.com/pressroom/releases/pr_2004_0130d.html
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
1. all that is nice but he VOTED for IWR , NCLB, and the Patriot ACT!!!!!!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. Dean supported Biden-Lugar and SUGGESTED a Patriot Act days after 9-11
Edited on Sat Jan-31-04 01:51 PM by blm
and also "tended to agree with the president" on TIPS, fer chrissakes.

Dean has the WORST record on civil liberties and the justice system of ANY of the candidates. Deal with it for a change.
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. He never suggested a pat act BLM. Your distorting truth ...
:hi:
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #10
14.  He suggested a re-evaluation of civil liberties on 9-13 and you know it!
And you have also read his atrocious past statements regarding civil liberties and the judicial system by now, so please don't pretend that he would NOT have voted for the Patriot Act just after 9-11.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. a reevaluation of civil liberties does not mean endorsing the Patriot Act
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agingdem Donating Member (893 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #14
32. Once and for all...
So Dean would have voted for or against___(fill in the blank...well Dean was never in a position to vote for or against anything. All this "woulda, coulda, shoulda" is just political posturing.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #32
40. Political posturing by Dean.
His past record of atrocious remarks on civil liberties and judicial issues MATTER.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
13. Yes, remember Dean "tended to agree" with *?
Not agree. TENDED to agree.

That way he could come back and dither even more if it turned out the political wind started blowing the other way on him.

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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 05:26 PM
Response to Reply #6
45. You won't be able to play the "Dean Biden-Lugar" card in November
when Kerry is facing Bush. What would be the excuse that Kerry supporters will use then for justifying Kerry's cowardly vote for IWR, his treasonous vote for PATRIOT, and his enabling vote for NCLB?

How will Kerry supporters be able to appeal to the antiwar voter of conscience? ABB loyalty oaths won't work on people of conscience.

Who are Kerry supporters going to blame when Kerry gets creamed by Bush? Nader? Nader is irrelevant. Greens? Well, at least they didn't vote for IWR. Reds?
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
47. Correct
Plus Dean supports the same portions of the Partiot Act that Kerry does, but out of all of the candidates only Dean suported unilateral attack on Iraq for the reasons closest to the ones that Bush stated that he was going to war with Iraq For:

FTN - 09/29/02
WASHINGTON



DEAN: Sure, I think the Democrats have pushed him into that position and the Congress, and I think that's a good thing. And I think he is trying to do that. We still get these bellicose statements.

Look, it's very simple. Here's what we ought to have done. We should have gone to the U.N. Security Council. We should have asked for a resolution to allow the inspectors back in with no pre-conditions. And then we should have given them a deadline saying "If you don't do this, say, within 60 days, we will reserve our right as Americans to defend ourselves and we will go into Iraq."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/30/ftn/printable523726.shtml


Salon.com February 20, 2003

"As I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.


http://www.howardsmusings.com/2003/02/20/salon_on_the_campaign_trail_with_the_unbush.html


December 11, 2003
Exactly how anti-war was Howard Dean?


..."I agree with President Bush -- he has said that Saddam Hussein is evil. And he is," Dean said. " is a vicious dictator and a documented deceiver. He has invaded his neighbors, used chemical arms, and failed to account for all the chemical and biological weapons he had before the Gulf War. He has murdered dissidents, and refused to comply with his obligations under U.N. Security Council Resolutions. And he has tried to build a nuclear bomb. Anyone who believes in the importance of limiting the spread of weapons of mass killing, the value of democracy, and the centrality of human rights must agree that Saddam Hussein is a menace. The world would be a better place if he were in a different place other than the seat of power in Baghdad or any other country. So I want to be clear. Saddam Hussein must disarm. This is not a debate; it is a given."...


A month later on Meet the Press, Dean said he believed that Iraq "is automatically an imminent threat to the countries that surround it because of the possession of these weapons."

Dean may have thought there was "no question" that Hussein was a threat before the war, but looking back now, his hindsight is telling him the opposite. Just this week, for example, Dean mentioned at the DNC's New Hampshire debate "that there was no serious threat to the United States from Saddam Hussein."

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000940.html


Dean trying to differentiate himself from te other candidates on the war is found to be amusing in the light of these quotes.

His credibuility when attacking other candidates who actually had to vote is completely destroyed in the light of these quotes.

Dean, as the only candidate who stood up against George Bush is revealed as a total lie in these quotes. In many others. The last link has links to dozens of contradictory statements made by Dean regardin his stance on Iraq.


Dean is full of even more vagueness when he speaks of the Patriot Act:


As President, I will repeal those parts of the Patriot Act that undermine our constitutional rights, and will stand against any further attempts to expand the government's reach at the expense of our civil liberties.

http://www.issues2000.org/2004/Howard_Dean_Civil_Rights.htm

He has been the most vague, but has made other comments in the past that indicate what his stance on civil liberties actually is:

For the defense
August 16, 2001




Dean has made no secret of his belief that the justice system gives all the breaks to defendants. Consequently, during the 1990s, state’s attorneys, police, and corrections all received budget increases vastly exceeding increases enjoyed by the defender general’s office. That meant the state’s attorneys were able to round up ever increasing numbers of criminal defendants, but the public defenders were not given comparable resources to respond.

The problem with giving a disproportionate share of state resources to prosecution and enforcement is that it throws the justice system out of kilter. A just result occurs in court only when the prosecution and defense both are ably represented

http://rutlandherald.com/Archive/Articles/Article/31792

Howard Dean's Constitutional Hang-Up

Dean Would Rather Execute an Innocent Man,

Than Let a Guilty One Walk Free

by Josh Frank

Dissident Voice
August 16, 2003


As Governor of Vermont, Howard Dean openly claimed that the legal system unfairly benefited criminal defendants over prosecutors. He even took measures to cut federal grant money aimed at helping mentally disabled defendants--as well as appointing state judges who were willing to undermine the Bill of Rights. In a 1997 interview with the Vermont News Bureau, Howard Dean admitted his desire to expedite the judicial process by using such justices to "quickly convict guilty criminals." He wanted individuals that would deem "common sense more important than legal technicalities." Constitutional protections (legal technicalities) apparently undermine Dean's yearning for speedy trials.



Perhaps he was looking to make Vermont more like George Bush's Texas, where defense lawyers are renowned for lacking the resources necessary to provide their clients a fair representation.



Several of Dean's judicial appointments are now awaiting hearings before the United States Second Circuit Court in New York City. The Thomas Jefferson Center for the Protection of Freedom of Expression (www.tjcenter.org) and two other law firms have filed briefs against these justices. They are being accused of violating a number of federal rights including; the First Amendment, Right to Counsel, Double Jeopardy, and Due Process.

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles7/Frank_Dean-Death-Penalty.htm


Dean's comments on civil liberties cause alarm
September 14, 2001


MONTPELIER — Gov. Howard Dean's call for a “re-evaluation” of some of America's civil liberties following this week's terrorist attacks was criticised Thursday by a Vermont Law School professor.

“Good God,” Vermont Law School Professor Michael Mello said when read the remarks Dean made at a Wednesday news conference. “It's terribly irresponsible for the leader of our state to be saying stuff like that right now.”

Benson Scotch, the head of the Vermont chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, said it was simply too soon after the attacks to engage in the sort of debates Dean called for.

Dean said Wednesday he believed that the attacks and their aftermath would “require a re-evaluation of the importance of some of our specific civil liberties. I think there are going to be debates about what can be said where, what can be printed where, what kind of freedom of movement people have and whether it's OK for a policeman to ask for your ID just because you're walking down the street.”

http://rutlandherald.com/hdean/33681


As usual, Deans campaign rhetoric does not in any way alighn with his statements as Governor, and in particular, with his actual decisions as Governor.

Dean made many decisions thatattempted to skirt the bill of rights while he was Governor. Dean tried to cut funding to legal aid in Vermont, denying the constitutional right to fair trial, a right that is set into stone in the bill of rights.

Deans comments to the Defender General of Vermont he eventually wold not re-appoint becasue he actually found sources to replace money Dean cut from defense funds has quted a conversation with Dean:

Dean made it clear early in his tenure that he thought alleged criminals were cut too much slack. "My view is that the justice system is not fair," Dean said in 1991 during his first week as governor. "It bends over backwards to help defendants and is totally unfair to victims and to society as a whole." Robert Appel, former head of the state's public defender system, said he had constant clashes with Dean over funding for the service. According to Appel, Dean said on at least one public occasion that the state should spend less money providing the accused with legal representation, saying that "95% of criminal defendants are guilty anyway." (Carson says the comment was meant as a joke, but Appel counters that even if it was, "the underlying message was pretty clear.")

http://www.time.com/time/election2004/article/0,18471,535358,00.html

So regardless of campaign rhetoric that Dean engages in, it is quite obvious from his record, that Dean believes in throwing out the bill of rights, to accomplish whatever judicial goals he has set, all of which appear to be pretty similar to John AShcrofts beleifs.

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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. If PA is so big to you and Dean why hasnt Dean stood with Kucinich's bill
Edited on Sat Jan-31-04 01:55 PM by JohnKleeb
which DK introduced back in September I believe, the aptly named Benjamin Franklin True Patriot Act.
Many of Dean's endorsers voted for NCLB and PA, are they evil to you? is Jim Jeffords and Pat Leahy bad as a result of that, now on IWR I will give you that, many of his endorsers were critics of it, but Kerry has Kennedy and Corzine who both voted against it. Also I believe this is in response to the special interests such.
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XanaDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
12. Dean:
pro Biden-Lugar. That won't go away, no matter how much Gov. Dean and his supporters wish it to.

Which is amusing, since Dean thought he could ride the wave of his supposed anti-war support into the WH.

And even more grimly amusing since he really had no vote to vote either way.

Knowing what a grandstander and equivocator Dean is, I could just see him putting his nuts on the line like Dennis Kucinich did and REALLY voting no to the IWR. NOT!

Ah, Dean, you spin me right 'round, baby, right 'round like a record spinning 'round ..."

:eyes:
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. that's a destructive form of argument
those three pieces of legislation are actual laws, and you're treating them like clubs to attack Kerry with. Doing it with the war is especially bad, it's like exploiting people's deaths.


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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Oh my goodness..
The Kerry supporters go for Bush tactics.

What's next? "Don't criticize a sitting senator in a time of war"?
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. absolutely not
I'm talking about a very specific, knee-jerk, propagandistic, repetitive form of argument.

I see it as similar to the way people simply posted the "Rose Garden" photo of Gephardt as a substitute for expressing a thought about him.

Same deal here: just keep listing those three "bad" votes. Kerry bad! Kerry bad! Kerry bad!
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. those three bad votes
are the most detrimental to our country. For me they carry a lot more weight then his good votes.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Exactly..
When it counted most, Kerry failed our party and our country.
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I know of a man who voted against 2 of those
But you all think hes unelectable and too "ugly" to win :(.
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. No
I don't think he's too ugly to win. Realistically, I think this country is not ready for him. Our loss.
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. only two?
which one did he vote for?

Anyway, I agree, the ignoring of Dennis Kucinich does call into question all this concern over those awful votes.
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nightperson Donating Member (550 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:34 PM
Response to Reply #26
42. Well, to be fair,
the original full-length version of the argument is "Four legs good, Kerry bad, give more money".
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Dean didnt have to vote:
Edited on Sat Jan-31-04 03:15 PM by Nicholas_J
But he stated he would have done exactly the same thing bush did:

On "Face The Nation":

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/09/30/ftn/printable523726.shtml

DEAN: Sure, I think the Democrats have pushed him into that position and the Congress, and I think that's a good thing. And I think he is trying to do that. We still get these bellicose statements.

Look, it's very simple. Here's what we ought to have done. We should have gone to the U.N. Security Council. We should have asked for a resolution to allow the inspectors back in with no pre-conditions. And then we should have given them a deadline saying "If you don't do this, say, within 60 days, we will reserve our right as Americans to defend ourselves and we will go into Iraq."

********************************************************************

http://www.howardsmusings.com/2003/02/20/salon_on_the_campaign_trail_with_the_unbush.html


"As I've said about eight times today," he says, annoyed -- that Saddam must be disarmed, but with a multilateral force under the auspices of the United Nations. If the U.N. in the end chooses not to enforce its own resolutions, then the U.S. should give Saddam 30 to 60 days to disarm, and if he doesn't, unilateral action is a regrettable, but unavoidable, choice.

*********************************************************************

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/000940.html


December 11, 2003

Exactly how anti-war was Howard Dean?

Posted December 11, 2003 02:17 PM

Of all the major Democratic presidential candidates, there's one thing that catapulted Howard Dean to the top -- opposition to war in Iraq."


"...A month later on Meet the Press, Dean said he believed that Iraq "is automatically an imminent threat to the countries that surround it because of the possession of these weapons."

Dean may have thought there was "no question" that Hussein was a threat before the war, but looking back now, his hindsight is telling him the opposite. Just this week, for example, Dean mentioned at the DNC's New Hampshire debate "that there was no serious threat to the United States from Saddam Hussein."

Similarly, the New York Times reported today that Dean said, plainly, "I never said Saddam was a danger to the United States, ever." In light of the Face the Nation quote from 2002, we know that's just not correct."

Dean has changed his position so many times, purposefully, so that when the time came, he could claim that he was either very pro war, or against the war, depending on which position would help him the most.

One might sate that pre-emtive unilateral atttack is not so much the "Bush Doctrine" but the "Dean Doctrine" stolen by George Bush.
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audibledevil Donating Member (92 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. If this is it
We're in deep shit for the General with Kerry...since thats a lightweight record at a minimum
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. exactly.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Nope. Doesn't mention that he exposed BCCI, IranContra and CIA drugrunning
Edited on Sat Jan-31-04 02:00 PM by blm
and helped craft Kyoto Proticol with other world leaders.

Gee...are you AGAINST the one man who exposed more government corruption than any other lawmaker in modern history?

Can you name ONE other person alive who exposed as much?
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. But
what has he done for this country lately, compared with the numerous bad policies and resolutions he has voted in favor of in the past 3 years. His job was to at least attempt to protect us and attempt to stop Bush. He has done many great things in the past but he has failed us miserably when it has counted. He used to stand for something but not anymore.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #16
23. Who led the fight against drilling in ANWR?
Who helped filibuster Medicare bill?

Who voted AGAINST John Ashcroft?

He also voted AGAINST Bush's taxcuts in 2001 and 2003.

Who blew the whistle on Bush's military failures at Tora Bora?

Who aligned with Joe Wilson to out Cheney's bad intel claim?
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #23
31. I stand corrected, but
IWR and Patriot Act were the most damaging votes and the good votes you listed pale in comparison.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #31
41. Kerry sent up a bill a few months ago repealing parts of the Patriot Act.
It has yet to hit the floor of the Senate, but it will.
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For PaisAn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #41
43. Wait
maybe if he had insisted on reading it before voting in favor of it he wouldn't need to try to now repeal parts. Or at least I could respect him for doing his job on something so vital as the Patriot Act. I believe his job is to know what he's approving. So this doesn't impress me. I guess he could say he made a few mistakes but these were biggies.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #9
22. Then..
Edited on Sat Jan-31-04 02:13 PM by girl gone mad
Why is the BFEE still in power? Why is Oliver North running for senate seats?

Nothing changed as a result of his exposure.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. Wrong. The HISTORY BOOKS were changed.
We KNOW about these things because of John Kerry whether you want to admit it or not.
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
28. That isn't it
It's a sample. And the Children's Health and Insurance Program, SCHIP, is the only reason Howard can run around bragging about children's health coverage in Vermont. And 96% of children are covered, not ALL children. Howard hasn't done anything in Vermont without federal programs. EVERY state has children's health coverage and most cover between 93-96%.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #28
39. And you must remember the base coverage that Dean started with
Which was in the top ten of all states. Dea started with a state that had 90 percent of all citizend covered when he came to office. Oddly enough, Dean did not increase the total number of people covered in Vermont at all. He just cut poor single people out, and added in children. Nothing more. ALl of th reports out of Vermont abourt Vermonts health care system report that it was turned into a catastrophe under Howard Dean:

Read these two:

http://www.leg.state.vt.us/jfo/Vermont%20Uninsured.pdf.

http://www.state.vt.us/health/commission/docs/report/report2.htm


Both these reports were orderd by Dean as Govenror, and show that Dean was leaving the state after having created a disaster.
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Closer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. God, even his
press releases make me yawn.
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retyred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 05:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
46. Maybe if he had a few well placed
“YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!”s that would help you out!


retyred in fla
“Good-Night Paul, Wherever You Are”

So I read this book
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quinnox Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. Dean and facts are always too far apart
Don't bother.
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funky_bug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:51 PM
Response to Original message
7. The first sentence of the second paragraph discredits the entire release.
"There is a choice between talkers and doers in this presidential campaign."

Kerry's talk: Bad war... bad bad war.

Kerry's "do": Voted for it.

'nuff said.
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. exactly
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slinkerwink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
17. man, kerry's record is pure fluff-----not very impressive
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Cocoa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #17
20. both Kerry and Dean have impressive records
I think most supporters of both Kerry and Dean share my view on this.


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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. Dean's record is based on federal programs
No, it isn't impressive, it's never been impressive. If it weren't for federal programs, Vermont would have no health coverage programs at all.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 05:20 PM
Response to Reply #30
44. Correct
Dean's action actually resulted in cuts to very good Vermonmt Programs that were separate from federal funding before Dean came into office.

Both Dr Dynsaur and VSCRIPT were started in 1989, the brain child of progressive independent Con Hogan. THey were totally state funded. Dean moved them under the umbrella of Medicaid, and once he did that, he could justify his cuts to these programs because of cuts made by the federal government.

It was a clever way to try to kill progressive programs Dean didnt want to support.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #17
27. some "fluff" extended children's healthcare in Vermont
that you credit Dean for, eh?
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JohnKleeb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. One of the first politicans to fight for GLBT rights
Yep that John Kerry hes a real fluff. Votes with Ted Kennedy 90% of the time and some think hes even more liberal. Stops Oliver North, who nearly became my senator :puke:. Yep Kerry is a real fluff, but I bet the same ones who despise him would like him more if he had voted NO on IWR, and believe me I wish he had but thats no reason to forget about all his accomplishments.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. As a matter of fact
John Kerry wrote an act in 1986 called the Gay Civil Rights act. Guess who opposed this bill as Lt Governor:

Candidates respond to OITM survey


In early September, OITM sent out questionnaires to candidates for statewide office in Vermont on issues of particular concern to lesbians and gay men. These candidates were informed that the results would be published in our newspaper and that failure to respond would also be noted. What follows are the results of this survey.

...U.S. Senate Race: Richard Snelling stated that he supports the concept of a federal civil rights bill to protect gay people. He would agree to co-sponsor and vote for such a bill (subject to approval of specific wording). He would support increased funding for AIDS education and research. He would support changes in the immigration law which currently excludes lesbians and gay men. And he would assign a staff person to act as liaison to the lesbian/gay community in Vermont.

...Lieutenant Governor: Howard Dean would not support a civil rights bill "aimed specifically at any given group" but he would include lesbian/gay civil rights protection in a broader bill. He did support the HTLV-III anti-discrimination bill sponsored by Micque Glitmen last year. He would support state funding for education and services to people with AIDS and people in high-risk groups. He would support re-instituting the State Human Rights Commission. He was ambivalent about appointing a liaison simply because he wasn't sure if it was necessary because of numerous "friends and supporters" in the gay community...

http://www.mountainpridemedia.org/oitm/issues/1986/11nov1986/

The Republican Govenror who Dean replaced when he died supported this federal legislation.

You see Deans response
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #27
48. Actually
The first legislation presented to congress that allowedfor the Medicaid Waivers Dean used to extend medicaid through Doctor Dynasaur were written by John Kerry as the Kennedy/Kerry Act of 1996.When The Republicans tried to sign onto it and weaken the federal levels of financing, the act became Kennedy/Hatch.

When Dean failed to pass state legislation to provide universal health care in Vermont in 1994, and state he would veto any attempt to establish single payer health care, Dean went on to try to create universal health care piecemeal. The most critical federal legislation that allowed him to use federal funds to try to do this was the result of legislation which originated with John Kerry.
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frustrated_lefty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
21. Weak.
He introduced legislation which failed, but a "version" passed. He sponsored things other initiated. He "drafted an innovative plan" which provided the "framework" for legislation others initiated.

Sorry guys, this does not remotely reflect well on Kerry. You have to avoid this issue, or make it a non-issue.
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Nicholas_J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #21
50. Then lets look at Dean's actual record of accomplishments
Pretty much on anything. If you go looking, on virtually any issue other than cutting social progrms to balance the budget,you will not find any instance of Dean actually leading on anything else. He always stayed by the sidelines when it came to controversial legislation and ideas, and only came out giving his support once it was very clear that legislation was going to pass, or in two cases, Civil Unions and Progressive Property Taxation, when the Vermont Supreme Court told him what he had to do or else.

Deans record as Governor is pretty much a record of mediocrity. A record of a man without a creative thought in his head. A man with virtually no imagination.

On Civil Unions, he spent almost four years avouding taking a public stance.

Earlier, on a Gay Civil Rights law, he opposed as Lt Governor, but in January of 1992, when the bill had literally dozens of sponsors, and great support (before it was finally brought to the legislature for vote in 1992, because it was presented too late in the legislature in 1991 and so had to wait until the legislature reopened in January) with all but 3 Vermont Senators having agreed to sign it, and well over 60 percent of the Vermont House agreed to sign it, then Dean mentions it in his state of the union address, when having been silent for the entire period prior to the legislation being debated, while he was already governor.

On Universal Health Care, Dean took as his own a comission ordered by his predecessor, Richard Snelling, to examine the possibility of universal health care in Vermont. The results were that Deans idea of simply requiring all businesses (even small mom and pop businesses) To provide insurance for all employees failed without getting a single vote, and Dean threatened to veto the other option the comittee was to look at, single payer:

Vermont
In April 1992 Vermont passed the Vermont Health Care Act of 1992 to ensure universal coverage for state citizens, control healthcare costs via a global budget, implement insurance community rating, reform medical malpractice laws, and place the state's healthcare under one state authority. The legislation did not specify how the state would pay for and achieve universal coverage. This led to development of two state proposals--one backed by a group of 55 legislators for a single-payer plan and one pushed by the governor for an employer mandate.

Although the single-payer plan was not brought to the floor for a vote during the current 1994 session, many predicted it would have been defeated. Additionally, Gov. Howard Dean, MD, had promised to veto it if passed. Dean, the nation's only physician governor, allied with the state's medical community in pushing for reform that was not government run. As Linfield College political scientist Howard M. Leichter describes it: "When Governor Dean speaks, the views of Dr. Dean are never entirely obscured. Dean, for example, shares the distaste of his colleagues for federal micromanagement of medical practices, especially through the much-hated Medicare program."1

http://www.chausa.org/PUBS/PUBSART.ASP?ISSUE=HP9410&ARTICLE=L

But when it came to big business, Dean fought like a mother protecting her children to protect big business:

Who's the Real Howard Dean?
As Vermont governor, the liberal firebrand was a fiscal conservative with close ties to business


Conservative Vermont business leaders praise Dean's record and his unceasing efforts to balance the budget, even though Vermont is the only state where a balanced budget is not constitutionally required. Moreover, they argue that the two most liberal policies adopted during Dean's tenure -- the "civil unions" law and a radical revamping of public school financing -- were instigated by Vermont's ultraliberal Supreme Court rather than Dean. "He was not a left-wing wacko," says Bill Stenger, a Republican and president of Jay Peak Resort, who says he supported Dean because of his "fiscally responsible, socially conscious policies."


Business leaders were especially impressed with the way Dean went to bat for them if they got snarled in the state's stringent environmental regulations. When Canada's Husky Injection Molding Systems Ltd. wanted to build a new manufacturing plant on 700 acres of Vermont farmland in the mid-'90s, for instance, Dean greased the wheels. Husky obtained the necessary permits in near-record time. "He was very hands-on," says an appreciative Dirk Schlimm, the Husky executive in charge of the project.

And when environmentalists tried to limit expansion of snowmaking at ski resorts, "Dean had to show his true colors, and he did -- by insisting on a solution that allowed expanding snowmaking," says Stenger. IBM (IBM ) by far the state's largest private employer, says it got kid-gloves treatment. "We would meet privately with him three to four times a year to discuss our issues," says John O'Kane, manager for government relations at IBM's Essex Junction plant, "and his secretary of commerce would call me once a week just to see how things were going."


http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/03_32/b3845084.htm

Monsanto's Legal Thuggery

by Michael Colby


Monsanto's legal team began 1998 by taking on the State of Vermont and its attempts to pass a very weak rBGH law that merely required Monsanto to register with the state and make its client list available to state authorities so "rBGH-free" claims could be verified. The company responded by publicly threatening to sue the state and stop selling its products in Vermont if the bill passed. Governor Howard Dean, feeling the lobbying heat from Monsanto and its rBGH-addicted farmers in Vermont, came to Monsanto's defense and pulled the plug on the measure by threatening a veto. The legislature then went on to further soften an already spineless bill by removing the section that required the drug manufacturer's client list. Eventually, after yet another legal threat and a "closed-door" meeting with Governor Dean, Monsanto backed off and let the near-meaningless legislation go into effect.

http://www.adbusters.org/magazine/24/monsanto.html


Conservatives from Vermont are so desparate to see their old pal back in office, that they find it necessary to try to divert the only two liberlathings that occured during Deans tenure as Govenror away from him and "blame" them on the Ultraliberal Vermont Courts.



I find it most amusing. Having searchd Deans actual history as Govenror, one can find nothing that would show that Dean cared at all for the average working citizen, but he went to bat for big business at every opportunity. There is literally no record of Dean ever fighting for any social issues. Ever backiong the little guy. Ever taking a stance on supporting issues that were critical to the many members of our society who are frequently thr targets of the rich and powerful. Dean has never stood for anything but monied interests. Ever.


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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jan-31-04 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. Kerry's record is..
mostly "talk", little "do".
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